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  1. #126
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    If I'm the Spurs, I see that Toronto could be pretty bad this year, so helping them cement a playoff spot and making it harder for the Charlotte pick to convey is a non-starter. I don't think Gradey is enough incentive to give that up.
    If Portland and Toronto want to make the trade they don't need the Spurs. It's an overreaction saying the Spurs are necessary to remove the pick restrictions.

  2. #127
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    If Portland and Toronto want to make the trade they don't need the Spurs. It's an overreaction saying the Spurs are necessary to remove the pick restrictions.
    Thatís only if they are willing to wait 4 years for their first pick and to only get 2 actual picks. Most GMs arenít secure enough in their jobs to go for that deal.

  3. #128
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    That’s only if they are willing to wait 4 years for their first pick and to only get 2 actual picks. Most GMs aren’t secure enough in their jobs to go for that deal.
    Where else are they getting the picks?

  4. #129
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    Who is the centerpiece Chicago can offer? They don't have anyone who beats Anunoby.
    Picks are the important part. PDX wonít be building a team around Anunoby. Heís a 26 YO supporting piece.

  5. #130
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    If Portland and Toronto want to make the trade they don't need the Spurs. It's an overreaction saying the Spurs are necessary to remove the pick restrictions.
    They can’t change the terms of the Poeltl deal without our consent, so not only is it not an overreaction, it’s 100% true.

  6. #131
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Where else are they getting the picks?
    If they work with us, they can start trading picks two years earlier. That’s extra picks to trade.

  7. #132
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    If Portland and Toronto want to make the trade they don't need the Spurs. It's an overreaction saying the Spurs are necessary to remove the pick restrictions.
    Without renegotiating with the Spurs, the only picks Toronto can trade are '28 and '30, because the pick the Spurs own can convey as late as '26 and you can't trade '27 or '29 (to make '28 and '30 available) per the Stepien rule. So I'd say that's a pretty significant hinderance.

  8. #133
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    Without renegotiating with the Spurs, the only picks Toronto can trade are '28 and '30, because the pick the Spurs own can convey as late as '26 and you can't trade '27 or '29 per the Stepien rule. So I'd say that's a pretty significant hinderance.
    to be fair, if you're portland, you probably want picks that are further out since the raptors picks will likely be well into the 20's while lillard is still playing at a high level. but just 2 firsts that are 3 and 5 years out will not be enough to land an all nba player

  9. #134
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    Give them two SRP, flipping that protected Toronto pick for would be a nice haul. Bare minimum he would be a nice role player off the bench with his shooting.
    I think the Spurs can do much better than Gradey with the Toronto pick. If they really want to go all in for Dame, I think probably an unrestricted '26 Toronto pick might the the only thing I'd consider, since that class has a few very good prospects (including Cam Boozer) and Dame and Siakam would be on the tail end of their careers. Maybe even that's not enough.

  10. #135
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    to be fair, if you're portland, you probably want picks that are further out since the raptors picks will likely be well into the 20's while lillard is still playing at a high level. but just 2 firsts that are 3 and 5 years out will not be enough to land an all nba player
    As it stands they can only offer 2 picks ('28 and '30) and 2 swaps ('27 and '29), but say they renegotiate with the Spurs for their unrestricted '26 pick instead. Then Toronto can offer Portland 3 picks ('24, '28 and '30) plus 3 swaps ('25, '27 and '29). That package might be enough for Portland to leave Anunoby off the table, and that's HUGE if they're going all in with Dame for a short window of 2 years at most. Dame/Anunoby/Barnes/Siakam/Poeltl isn't really a contender in my eyes but surely a playoff team that can make it past the 1st round and even get to the ECF if all goes right (no injuries, Scottie Barnes develops with the shooting around him).

  11. #136
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    I think the Spurs can do much better than Gradey with the Toronto pick. If they really want to go all in for Dame, I think probably an unrestricted '26 Toronto pick might the the only thing I'd consider, since that class has a few very good prospects (including Cam Boozer) and Dame and Siakam would be on the tail end of their careers. Maybe even that's not enough.
    I think the idea is that the TOR 2024 would become unprotected, but because that would likely mean the pick quality would decrease as a result of TOR adding Dame, Spurs should get another asset for their troubles. I think insisting on another FRP to top of that seem steep.

  12. #137
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    If the Spurs could somehow materialize for nothing, that would be amazing, but I'm not holding my breath. If it did happen, however, it really frees you up to start dealing the pick war chest for the other pieces you need (PG). However, I'm probably higher on that some smarter people on this board (who are probably right).

    If I am Portland, the an Unprotected FRP in 26 from TOR has to be part of the deal. That's a projected year with "generational talent" so that's a year (is Flagg still in this class or did he reclass to 25?) I have to be acquiring capital for. It would be foolish to let the Spurs get it and take a 24 pick instead.

  13. #138
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Without renegotiating with the Spurs, the only picks Toronto can trade are '28 and '30, because the pick the Spurs own can convey as late as '26 and you can't trade '27 or '29 (to make '28 and '30 available) per the Stepien rule. So I'd say that's a pretty significant hinderance.
    Yeah, no . I understand. Miami can't give any picks other than later in the decade. Why would Toronto waste a significant asset to remove the protections when it's not necessary for the trade?

  14. #139
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    Yeah, no . I understand. Miami can't give any picks other than later in the decade. Why would Toronto waste a significant asset to remove the protections when it's not necessary for the trade?
    Portland has already shown that 2 FRPs is not going to get Dame. You have to do more than beat Miami you have to meet a minimum threshold that Miami hasnít reached yet.

  15. #140
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    Portland has already shown that 2 FRPs is not going to get Dame. You have to do more than beat Miami you have to meet a minimum threshold that Miami hasn’t reached yet.
    Anunoby, and picks in ‘28 and ‘30 is a way better offer than Miami could do.

  16. #141
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    Anunoby, and picks in Ď28 and Ď30 is a way better offer than Miami could do.
    The max offer from Heat could be 3 tradable first-round picks, Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, rookie first-round pick Jaime Jaquez Jr. and Caleb Martin. So while they arenít going to trade all 3 young guys it is pretty comparable. Portland seems to prefer Anunoby over Herro so thatís a big plus for Toronto, but Portland is going to get 3 FRPs offered by someone.

  17. #142
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    The max offer from Heat could be 3 tradable first-round picks, Tyler Herro, Nikola Jovic, rookie first-round pick Jaime Jaquez Jr. and Caleb Martin. So while they aren’t going to trade all 3 young guys it is pretty comparable. Portland seems to prefer Anunoby over Herro so that’s a big plus for Toronto, but Portland is going to get 3 FRPs offered by someone.
    Well it depends on how Portland value the assets. They definitely don’t need Herro and it doesn’t seem like anyone else is willing to pay much for him. vs Jovic and Jaquez is a wash but the former is probably a better fit for them. Anunoby is probably worth a couple of protected firsts himself and far off unprotected picks and swaps from Toronto are definitely a good bet compared to similar ones from Miami.

    There’s also the bad blood between Portland and Miami and it all comes down to whether Lillard is willing to report in Toronto. I bet he would in the end. The biggest question is whether Toronto would prefer to keep Anunoby as well and overwhelm with picks, in which case they may look for the Spurs to relieve the protections of the ‘24 pick or be a third team in the deal sending it to Portland for something.

  18. #143
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    Austin Reaves was a RESTRICTED free agent, the Lakers could have matched ANYTHING the Spurs offered and (for all we know) WOULD HAVE. So let's stop pretending like he was gift wrapped and the Spurs fumbled it away.

    there wouldíve been zero downside and itís not 100% for sure maxing him they match.

    weíll never know cause the front office played it like cowards

  19. #144
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    there would’ve been zero downside and it’s not 100% for sure maxing him they match.

    we’ll never know cause the front office played it like cowards
    The downside was they couldn't have negotiated the Bullock trade that netted them the Dallas pick swap.

  20. #145
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    Anunoby is injury prone, delusional (wants an on-ball role) and a free agent next off season.

    Lightly - unprotected picks that will convey when Lillard is in decline - retired sound great in theory, but few executives have the luxury of long term job security and Cronin isn't one of them.

    The Craptors lack the draft capital to overwhelm with picks and that's also too risky to trade a player of this magnitude strictly for unproven assets.

  21. #146
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Anunoby is injury prone, delusional (wants an on-ball role) and a free agent next off season.

    Lightly - unprotected picks that will convey when Lillard is in decline - retired sound great in theory, but few executives have the luxury of long term job security and Cronin isn't one of them.

    The Craptors lack the draft capital to overwhelm with picks and that's also too risky to trade a player of this magnitude strictly for unproven assets.
    Only if they don't negotiate to drop the protections on the 24 pick we have. If they do, they can ship a 25 swap,26,27swap,28, 29 swap,30, flipping us Gradey for taking part. If they don't, then you're right, they can only ship out a 27 swap,28,29 swap,30.

  22. #147
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    I think the idea is that the TOR 2024 would become unprotected, but because that would likely mean the pick quality would decrease as a result of TOR adding Dame, Spurs should get another asset for their troubles. I think insisting on another FRP to top of that seem steep.
    Yep. There are a couple ways Toronto can get it done with our help.

  23. #148
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I think the idea is that the TOR 2024 would become unprotected, but because that would likely mean the pick quality would decrease as a result of TOR adding Dame, Spurs should get another asset for their troubles. I think insisting on another FRP to top of that seem steep.
    My whole riddle is what it would take to drop the protections. Another FRP, as you say, would be too much. I'm not sure more SRPs appeal, but may be the most they can get. A future swap is probably too rich and getting a young player is right out. A GM would get pilloried by fans and ownership for giving up a Gradey for apparently nothing. Perceptions and market costs matter.

    I think we're seeing the risk of protecting picks. With the changes to the lottery system, drawing a top 4 pick is highly unlikely anyway, and it may be better to just give up a pick straightaway than reduce your options for making trades. Thunder seem to have been trying to bend Miami over a barrel to get rid of their protections earlier in the summer.

  24. #149
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    My whole riddle is what it would take to drop the protections. Another FRP, as you say, would be too much. I'm not sure more SRPs appeal, but may be the most they can get. A future swap is probably too rich and getting a young player is right out. A GM would get pilloried by fans and ownership for giving up a Gradey for apparently nothing. Perceptions and market costs matter.

    I think we're seeing the risk of protecting picks. With the changes to the lottery system, drawing a top 4 pick is highly unlikely anyway, and it may be better to just give up a pick straightaway than reduce your options for making trades. Thunder seem to have been trying to bend Miami over a barrel to get rid of their protections earlier in the summer.
    Long term protections, certainly. I hate to say it, but the LAL may have set the new model with the Westbrook trade to Utah: one year, 1-4 protection, and if it falls in the one year window and doesn't convey, it turns to a SRP.

    One of the most ridiculous picks was one that Portland traded to Chicago, 1-14 protected for 24,25,26,27,28.

  25. #150
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    so...no trade yet...ok

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