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Chet who?
2/3 more performances like that and he'll be a lock for the ASG.
Chet who?
He's a lock now. There is no way that the networks will tolerate an ASG without him in it.
Dpoty?
nov 14 they can both go at it again
After Suns game 2 November 2023.
B-R WS
0.6 WS
1) Chet Holmgren
0.5 WS
2) Dereck Lively II +1
3) Marcus Sasser +4
0.4 WS
04) Cason Wallace -2
0.2 WS
05) Brandon Miller -1
06) Ausar Thompson -1
07) Anthony Black +5
0.1 WS
08) Keyonte George +5
09) Trayce Jackson-Davis +2
10) Toumani Camara +22
11) Kobe Brown -3
12) Sasha Vezenkov -6
13) Victor Wembanyama +35 Fabulous game, jumping from below replacement level to above.
14) Chris Livingston NEW
0.0 WS
15) Colby Jones +7
16) Andre Jackson Jr. +18
17) Jordan Miller -1
18) Ben Sheppard +19
19) Jalen Pickett -2
20) Craig Porter Jr. +23
21) Julian Strawther -7
22) Jett Howard -4
23) Hunter Tyson -4
24) Taylor Hendrix -4
25) Jordan Hawkins -15
26) Filip Petrusev -5
27) Emoni Bates +6
28) Brandin Podziemski -5
29) Maxwell Lewis -5
30) Gregory Jackson II -4
31) Nick Smith Jr -6
32) Julian Phillips -5
33) Kris Murray -3
34) Jermaine Samuels -6
35) Collin Gillespie -6
36) Jarace Walker +9
37) Mouhamed Gueye -6
38) E.J. Liddell -3
39) Jalen Wilson NEW
40) Leonard Miller -4
41) Gradey -32 0 for 2, 1 assist, 1 turnover, 1 PF, 14 min, -17 +/-
42) Rayan Rupert -3
43) Jordan Ford -5
44) Keyonte Johnson -4
45) Brice Sensabaugh -4
46) Kobe Bufkin -4
-0.1 WS
47) Vasilije Micic -3
48) Jaime Jacquez Jr. -32 19 min, 1 for 9, 0 for 6 3P, 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 2 steals, 1 block, 2 turnovers, 4 PF, not horrible but dropped passed the replacement level.
49) Kaiser Gates -3
50) Amen Thompson -3
51) Cam Whitmore -2
-0.2 WS
52) Bilal Coulibaly -2
-0.4 WS
53) Scoot Henderson -2
Appreciate you doing this. But Win shares are a flawed Box Score based advanced stat. Makes little sense to use this to compare rookies. It does not for e.g. measure the impact of a player defensively beyond box score metrics. It will for e.g. not be able to show that shooters are only shooting 20% or even low against Wemby or that they are scoring at less than 50% at the rim when he is around. These and other metrics are better captured by +/- stats (they too have their limitations but are much better off) but RAPTOR has ceased to exist. And LEBRON hasn't been updated for 2023-24 as yet.
So, as things stand, it is better to trust some raw numbers and the eye test to evaluate rookies rather than flawed box score stats.
Chet with another really nice outing tonight. OKC narrowly lost to the Golden State on a Steph Curry buzzer beater.
24/8/5/1/1 on 7/9 shooting. Still think Wemby has a clear advantage (especially with how much media attention he’s getting) but give Chet his props…dude has been awesome this year. Not a huge fan of treating him as a rookie though, but that’s how the NBA does it so whatever.
Win shares is an aggregate stat and I am not sure that is the best metric. It is also not representative of defense.
The media will play the Wemby vs Chet. But eventually it will be Wemby. The kid is the future face of this league.
Win share is more or less an aggregate of stats but it also takes defensive ratings into play, and it does take defense into account.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/about/ws.html
The major flaw with ws though is how it’s hugely affected by the teams success. The same player having the same impact on a great team vs a terrible team would generate a vastly different ws number. I used to look at ws solely back in the day but context is required as well. Ortg, drtg, VORP and bpm are all important metrics as well.
He's been impressive but imagine how much better Wemby would look with Josh Giddey passing him the ball and SGA pulling attention from him.
Would it be affected by a 40-point loss?
Is Chet really a rookie? I know he was injured, but he was on a NBA roster last year, plus he has the advantage of being in a NBA weight program.
Same thing happened with Blake Griffin. He injured himself before playing the regular season and was the ROTY the following season. Chet will be there. But too much house money on Wemby. Wemby sells. The big networks will push him hard.
Same as Embid but he only played 30 or so games in his rookie year, despite missing the entire first season.
Chet Holmgren is really good. He might have been a ROY over Banchero last year and I thought he should have gone #1.
The roles of the two are very different and they're pretty different players. Holmgren is really productive and efficient and will raise OKC's future considerably. He's the perfect anchor for them, mobile and aggressive as a shotblocker, smart and skilled, can finish very easily, works in transition, and hits threes. He's perfect.
I do think the league will adjust to Chet. This will help their guards overall, but they'll realize they need to be aware of him on both sides of the ball and I think there will be some success there.
Wembanyama has a completely different impact. He's a play-starter and maker, a first option, and his offensive skill-base is nearly everywhere. He's a better perimeter defender and not the same post defender. He's also twenty months younger and didn't have a year of development in the NBA.
Holmgren is going to be a mainstay for a very, very good Thunder team. I can see him being an overlooked star, but it'll be as more of a clean-up man. Wembanyama is a heliocentric figure. It's a pretty different situation in the long run.
I mostly agree with this. I have a feeling Chet will be the perfect “complementary” piece (in quotes because that’s downplaying him IMO, but couldn’t think of a better term): all-defense caliber defender, floor spacing big who can give you 18-22 ppg while also being a solid playmaker. That’s incredibly valuable of course, but I’m not so sure he can be a 25+ ppg guy who has the run offense run through him night in and night out which is the path Wemby seems to be going down.
That being said, should be an incredible rivalry over the next decade with both of these guys as long as they’re healthy.
Lol hugely.
The 40 point loss also magnified the impact of the small sample size.
And it doesn't take into account clutchness.
And defensive rating has many of the same issues as using fielding stats to describe defense in baseball.
Pretty much. He's a fantastic piece for the Thunder. Looking at them, they have SGA and Holmgren and some great complements like Dort. I'm not 100% about anyone else, but they have gobs of draft picks to work with. They really need to be better than .500 this year.
I think Chet's going to be a better player than SGA in a couple of years as long as he can stay healthy and I absolutely could see him winning a le, multiples, as the #1guy in OKC. Definitely see him as another Garnett but with a supporting cast. If Victor and Chet can both stay healthy it's going to be a pretty serious rivalry.
I'd be interested to see if he develops go-to moves. There's a reason why Drew Timme was the man at Gonzaga and Holmgren fed off the attention Timme got. I don't agree that he'll eclipse SGA, but there's a lot of development he can do. I just don't know if we see a #1 option whether on the perimeter or in the blocks.
I hope so. The NBA needs some fresh and compelling new rivalries.
The transition of the guard is here.
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