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This is how I think it ends. Especially after SA low balls his contract cause he played bad at a position they forced him to play at
Soon it will be "Yo, I don't want to be in San Antonio. "
How is playing him at point guard "developing him"?
Like Timmy never played at point guard. He developed just fine.
Kawhi never played at point guard. He developed just fine.
Danny never played at point guard. He developed just fine.
I don't understand what Sochan is supposed to be developing at point guard and I don't understand why he has to play at the point guard spot to develop it.
This is how I think it ends. Especially after SA low balls his contract cause he played bad at a position they forced him to play at
Soon it will be "Yo, I don't want to be in San Antonio. "
The starting lineup builds itself up: Jones, Vassell, Keldon, Sochan, Wemby.
I can somehow understand the idea of not wanting to wear down Wemby by making him play center on defense, but you can just have Sochan play there if Zach Collins is the other answer. It's not like our defense could get any worse.
Playing an obvious short term stopgap isn’t preferable to a long term gamble in what people here STILL don’t understand is a throwaway season.
What you don’t understand is that this season should be about wemby and not about sochan
give Jeremy his 10-15 minutes of point guard experimentation with the second unit instead of sabotaging the starters
It can actually be about both. Wemby needs less development and more acclimation to what does and doesn’t work in the NBA.
It’s impossible to sabotage a season that is an experiment, starters or otherwise.
Some players are meant to be what they're meant to be, and no amount of forcing otherwise will change that... It may actually ruin their development... That's like trying to force Shaun Marion into playing PG... The stuff that actually made Marion an all star would have been underdeveloped, and he would have never been at the level he was... Nothing about Sohan's game has improved, and almost everything got worse, including his defense..
His assists are up by default, but no one who watches the games actually thinks he passes better than last year... He may actually be passing worse now that he is forced to... This all reeks of Pop ego trip and trying to be the smartest guy in the room by bucking conventional wisdom... And despite what everyone with eyes is saying zhe will double down on the stupid because he doesn't wanna admit he is wrong... Just like when he subbed Duncan in the finals
Season feels very gimmicky, basically a throw away. So we tank and get a ok pick next draft then what? At some point we need to start making moves because how many tank seasons we gonna do?
So we should gamble MAYBE somehow making Sohan a serviceable PG at the expense of a potential superstar in Wemby's development and happiness? Insanity... Let's be clear... Wemby DEFINITELY gets frustrated with the lack of direction on offense and teammates not being able to set him up... Don't let his demeanor fool u
I'm using that term because I think Pop has it in his head who he wants to start, rather than me saying who I want to start. I think Pop wants Keldon, Jeremy, Victor and Zach to be in the first unit. Then he has to choose between bench Vassell or running without a PG. Playing Sochan there is through that logic an attempt to bring in the guy who should obviously be the starter without having compromise on the four other players.
I actually think Sochan should come off the bench. Keldon's actually played really well this year. People about his driving, but he's actually pretty good at it. Johnson drives more than anyone on the team besides Sochan, but 63 percent of his drives end up as points or assists, as opposed to 44 percent of Jeremy and 53 percent for Tre. Keldon does turn it over 8 percent of time, rather than 5 for Tre and 4 for Jeremy. I combined assists and scoring because you'd be fine with players doing either as the result of driving, but Keldon's drives don't generate assists at the same rate that the other two do. This feeds into the idea that Johnson doesn't pass, but the rest of the stats don't support that. Keldon is basically tied with Sochan and Collins for best passer on the team who isn't Tre Jones. He doesn't have quite the raw assist numbers (though he has had some games where he's almost gotten a triple-double), but when you factor in secondary assists (and passes that led to free throws) you have Sochan at 5.3, Keldon at 5.1 and Collins at 5.0. Ultimately Keldon like Collins is halfway between being a facilitator and a finisher. Both of them are willing to move to the ball but have ways to score if the opposing defense ignores them. In other words, they actually fit pretty well on offense with Wemby and Vassell for the time being. Defense, especially for Keldon, isn't great, but the Spurs don't have good defenders right now.
Yeah you gave me a great response when I was saying Pop didn't appear to be trying to win. I had heard something before the season started saying we were going to try to 'win now,' but I think it was someone saying we weren't ''tanking.' What we are seeing is an 'experiment,' as you say, and that's what it looks like. Playing Sochan at PG is going to develop his ball handling and court vision, perhaps that's the plan.
I don't understand why they won't run him off the bench, with his high energy is perfect for that roll.
This is all just a CIA Pop move to make people appreciate Tre Jones. Pop reads SpursTalk, and will have no more Tre Jones slander
While I agree with 90% of what you said, the problem is that it doesn't make any logical sense for the short term, it doesn't make any logical sense for the long term, it doesn't make us better in the short term, it doesn't make us better in the long term, and over the next two seasons when we either draft, sign, or trade for a starting point guard, it would have all been for nothing. We actually don't really need a "point guard" as we move more into the future where Victor also acts as a secondary and sometimes primary offensive initiator and facilitator, we just need it to not be someone who is as bad at it as Jeremy.
Who says Wemby has to play center on defense? Let Sochan do it. He is more likely to be successful doing that since their aren't very many good big men in the league right now than he is trying to defend guards where damn near every team in the league has one who can drop at least 20 on you a night.
You can sabotage a player's career by messing with his confidence, though. Last year everybody love Sochan, this year everybody is hating on him and it's entirely on Pop.
I don’t think benching Vassell was ever a possibility. No way does he get that kind of contract if benching him was seriously considered.
It was Zach at center, Victor at pf, Keldon at sf, Vassell at sg, and, hm. Do you play Tre for offense, or Sochan for defense? They went with defense.
Sochan couldn’t replace Victor, he couldn’t play center, he couldn’t play sg, and he couldn’t replace Keldon’s scoring. It had to be Tre.
As far as developing Sochan as a point guard, the Spurs are telling a little fib. Look at the Spurs’ history. It’s well known how the Spurs develop young players, to try to teach them new skills.
G League
then
Garbage time (with trips back to GL
then
Bench (still maybe trips back to GL
then
Starter.
That’s how they do it. Are they doing that with Sochan, to turn him into a point guard? Nope.
But the Spurs are not under oath, so they can say whatever they want. They won’t be arrested.
They wanted Sochan on the court to defend taller players. I’m sure in practice they’re trying to teach him some point guard stuff, but they can’t honestly say they’re developing him as a pg, in the way we know the Spurs do.
Oh noes! Some idiot fans on a message board be hatin on Jeremy!
If they start Sochan at PF and Wembanyama at C, two issues are created: 1) The dreaded Sochan-Jones pairing and 2) If Sochan guards the C, not only does he not have a chance on most post ups, block outs and lobs, but then he obviously can't defend the best opposing 1-4.
As underwhelming as he's been at that, he's still better suited than anyone else (at least 2-4) and needs to do it well to have value.
This isn't a decade ago; the league is as flush with great big men as it's ever been.
It's not just that. It's obviously bothering Sochan too, there's a reason he spoke about it.
It can be about both. I do agree there. This is a season about developing the team as a unit. Yes, that means Wemby developing as a star, but it also means guys showing what they can do as lesser options. It means Wemby getting used to having the best teammates he's ever had and going up against the best defenders he's ever faced. So in a way, yeah, Sochan playing PG and seeing if he can handle it makes some sense in the context of this year.
But you're going to too far calling it a "throwaway" season. Everything we've heard is that the Spurs fully intend to win every game they're playing right now. They probably don't believe they're going to win a le this season. But they want to win as many games as they can, whether that be 20-something like last time or in the 40s and in position for the post-season. Part of the evaluation element to this season is seeing how good they can be with this core. They need to see if Wemby is a superstar already or if he's going to need some Robin years. The process of seeing how guys like Johnson, Branham and to a lesser extent Vassell handle their demotion. They're evaluating whether Collins or a center like Bassey fit best next to Wemby just as they are experimenting with Wemby at center. It's so much harder to answer a lot of these questions when the offense is non-functional. Guys like Keldon and Vassell can't "play off Wemby" when bad PG play puts the ball in their hands with pressure to create. Chemistry with Wemby is harder to establish when the offense isn't getting people easy shots that aren't threes.
So yeah, the Spurs may already know they need a new PG because "Jones isn't the answer". But what they don't know if is they can afford to draft one with a mid- to late-lottery pick this year or if they need to make a move for a vet at the position. The plan next year can't be "Let's see what we have now that we're taking the PG position a bit more seriously." It's important to take steps in the right direction. Most teams have to win "a little" before they win "a lot". You don't just flip a switch and start winning a bunch of games, especially without aggressive free-agent additions. Sustained success is a product of improving year after year, so going into any season acting like the team should be okay playing poorly is just really off-base.
I didn’t say sabotaging the season i said sabotaging the starters. You are stunting the development and chemistry of Victor, Vassell, Collins, keldon if you throw the monkey wrench that is Sochan into the mix. We aren’t seeing what this unit actually should look or play like because they have long stretches of complete incompetence from the table setter in the lineup.
it’s like evaluating an nfl offense when your qb is Tim tebow
I firmly believe Jones, Vassell, Johnson, Wembanyama, Collins is the best starting unit the Spurs can field given Bassey's limitations. I believe that lineup is easily an improvement over what they're running now. I also think Sochan, Branham, McDermott, Osman, Bassey is a serviceable bench unit. So I actually think it's better for the team in the short term. Long-term, teams ALWAYS need good guard play.
This is an argument FOR Jones playing over Sochan. We don't know what kind of star Wemby is going to be, but we know that right now, he benefits more from being set up than creating his own offense. Solid guard play is going to be important to him for a least the next couple of years but could realistically be important for his whole career. Most stars rely on guard play, even if they do a lot of primary play-making. By playing with a competent guard, Wemby will give the Spurs data on what kind guard they need. Because Sochan isn't anymore inked into the future Spurs than Jones is. Tre is on a two-year deal, but he can be re-signed. Some of the guys the Spurs drafted will be traded. We have no idea if the starting lineup for the 2028 Spurs won't be Jones, Vassell, some three-and-D wing, some two-way PF and Wemby. Or if it's not Jones someone basically just like him who knows their role and can keep things moving around their star wings. What is true is that most le-teams with superstar front-court players also employ star guards. That second guard, however, tends to be a role-player. Given that Vassell is auditioning for second-banana guard right now, it might make sense to see how they play with competing-level role-players rather than just throw out whatever units Pop can think up.We actually don't really need a "point guard" as we move more into the future where Victor also acts as a secondary and sometimes primary offensive initiator and facilitator, we just need it to not be someone who is as bad at it as Jeremy.
And at least from my POV this is the reason we are seeing some anti-productive hero balling. The team can’t rely on the offense flowing how it’s designed to they take matters into their own hands. Vassell has been money so far this season, but some of his shot selection has been questionable (and I’ve noticed even one of the national TV halftime shows calling it out, I think against the Suns). We can’t rely on Vassell performing above mean expectations all the time - at some point there will be a regression. It would be in our best interest for our team to develop the right way, not in this helter skelter, every man for themselves kind of way.
Sorry ex, but this statement doesn't make sense.
I'm one of the biggest Pop defenders on this board, but I also like to think I can see the big picture and will disagree with him when I see fit.
Maybe Tre could learn from leading this team as a PG. Maybe Sochan could learn from playing a more natural position in his 2nd year instead of trying to force a round peg into a square hole.
If we aren't tanking, but also aren't trying to win...as you put it...then what the are we doing?
Things move fast in pro sports. You aren't afforded "gap years"...you are either improving or declining.
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