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  1. #51
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I actually think Vassell is late BECAUSE Keldon is late on that play Vassell can't go too early without giving up the skip pass. So he has to wait until the pass is made, but because Keldon is slow, Vassell can't move up so that he doesn't have to start from as far back. He also can't cheat up early, because he'd be above the line of ball and man and basically give up a back-door layup. If Keldon were closer, I think Vassell would've felt comfortable passing his man off a second earlier, which probably makes a completely clean rotation. I noticed that play too, both during the game and during that mistakes video. There was very little reason for Keldon to hesitate there. As soon as Davis picks up his dribble, Johnson is supposed to sprint to the corner. Wemby has to be able to contest anything AD can do from a set position without help. Johnson also jumped to try to disrupt the pass, which is a type of gamble the Spurs wings do way too often. That just slowed him down more. In reality, Johnson shouldn't've even been there by the time the pass was made, but he certainly shouldn't be jumping like that. That other Spurs do the same thing worries me that it might be a coaching decision rather than just a mistake.
    you're probably right on vassell. i was considering the backdoor cut, but keldon was already in that area by then, even if he hadnt made it all the way to the corner. either way, keldon was the bigger culprit here

    i didnt know there was already a "mistakes" video for yesterday's game lol, i'll have to check it out. does that guy still whine every time the spurs decide not to have collins switch onto a guard?

  2. #52
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    you're probably right on vassell. i was considering the backdoor cut, but keldon was already in that area by then, even if he hadnt made it all the way to the corner. either way, keldon was the bigger culprit here

    i didnt know there was already a "mistakes" video for yesterday's game lol, i'll have to check it out. does that guy still whine every time the spurs decide not to have collins switch onto a guard?
    He does, and he still thinks Pop is terrible. The video on last night basically really tore into Wemby's defensive awareness. That was interesting consider how much right Victor did during the same game.

    EDIT: May as well add it into this video too:


  3. #53
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    The guys they draft.
    Lol

  4. #54
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    He does, and he still thinks Pop is terrible. The video on last night basically really tore into Wemby's defensive awareness. That was interesting consider how much right Victor did during the same game.

    EDIT: May as well add it into this video too:

    the keldon play we were discussing didnt seem to make it into this vid. i mean, at least in that play the guys were all somewhat doing the right thing, keldon just lacked hustle

  5. #55
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    He does, and he still thinks Pop is terrible. The video on last night basically really tore into Wemby's defensive awareness. That was interesting consider how much right Victor did during the same game.

    EDIT: May as well add it into this video too:

    This guy cracks me up

  6. #56
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    If he can be traded to get an Ivey, then yes Keldon is the best candidate

  7. #57
    Veteran Arcadian's Avatar
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    I traded Keldon for Chris Paul in 2K and it worked out pretty well, tbh

    (We also got Moody and Looney in the deal)

  8. #58
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    the keldon play we were discussing didnt seem to make it into this vid. i mean, at least in that play the guys were all somewhat doing the right thing, keldon just lacked hustle
    Maybe I was thinking of the Branham play at 7:02, which is the same rotation that gets messed up in a similar way.

  9. #59
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    This guy cracks me up
    He's entertaining even if hyperbolic (basically thinks every coach whose teams he covers are also just as bad). But I think it's important for folks who actually want to talk about the Spurs' defensive issues to get a sense of what they're not doing well. Watching this guy's videos definitely underscores how much of defense is just being coached and disciplined compared to having physical tools. The Spurs could absolutely be an average defense with the player they have, if not really good given they have Wemby. But they can't do that if they keep making all of these mental errors. Just have preset rules and stick with those, and they'll work most of the time.

  10. #60
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    He's entertaining even if hyperbolic (basically thinks every coach whose teams he covers are also just as bad). But I think it's important for folks who actually want to talk about the Spurs' defensive issues to get a sense of what they're not doing well. Watching this guy's videos definitely underscores how much of defense is just being coached and disciplined compared to having physical tools. The Spurs could absolutely be an average defense with the player they have, if not really good given they have Wemby. But they can't do that if they keep making all of these mental errors. Just have preset rules and stick with those, and they'll work most of the time.
    a lot of these aren't really mental errors happening on the court, its clearly the techniques they are taught, like how they are approaching the sideline screens

  11. #61
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    a lot of these aren't really mental errors happening on the court, its clearly the techniques they are taught, like how they are approaching the sideline screens
    I agree on a lot of that -- and those videos certainly don't let you forget the coaching issues -- but I don't think Pop is telling them to defend with their backs to the sideline, not sprinting in transition and not boxing out. On that last point, the Spurs are amazing bad at boxing out. Collins is okay, and Bassey was okay for a bench big. Keldon is decent for a wing. But those are the only guys in the top 150 players. An underrated aspect of the Medium Three Spurs teams were Kawhi's insane ability to rebound and Green's ability to box out PFs to allow his guys to get boards. 2-5 all contributed to securing boards. Nowadays, the Spurs seem to have no idea how to do it. It's probably not the case that Pop is instructing them to avoiding box-outs, and I doubt they never learned how to do it at other levels. They just don't seem to pay attention to their guy after the shot goes up.

  12. #62
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    I don’t think Keldon finishes his career as a Spur or even his current contract, but I don’t see any way we move him right now unless it’s along with draft capital for a young All-Star caliber player, which I really don’t see happening. Otherwise this just seems like speculation, as Spurraider above me said.
    Who's giving up a young star for Keldon and some Hawks picks in the mid teens

  13. #63
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I agree on a lot of that -- and those videos certainly don't let you forget the coaching issues -- but I don't think Pop is telling them to defend with their backs to the sideline, not sprinting in transition and not boxing out. On that last point, the Spurs are amazing bad at boxing out. Collins is okay, and Bassey was okay for a bench big. Keldon is decent for a wing. But those are the only guys in the top 150 players. An underrated aspect of the Medium Three Spurs teams were Kawhi's insane ability to rebound and Green's ability to box out PFs to allow his guys to get boards. 2-5 all contributed to securing boards. Nowadays, the Spurs seem to have no idea how to do it. It's probably not the case that Pop is instructing them to avoiding box-outs, and I doubt they never learned how to do it at other levels. They just don't seem to pay attention to their guy after the shot goes up.
    im not saying you're making this up, but this is the kind of thing that you could easily make up because you love danny

  14. #64
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    He hasn’t stunk, but he hasn’t improved either. Some thought he would take that next step, but that is nowhere in sight. And the advanced stats say his reputation for being a good defender is illusory. Which the game results bear out.
    EPM does have him as 88 percentile on defense and 92 percentile scoring at the rim. He did improve a ton on 2 of his major weakness last season.

  15. #65
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    im not saying you're making this up, but this is the kind of thing that you could easily make up because you love danny
    At the same time, there are reasons I was a huge fan. I will say that every regular season from 2011-2012 to 2017-2018, the Spurs rebounded better when Danny was on the floor than when he was on the bench. Only in 2016-2017 did the team allow offensive rebounds at a higher rate with Danny on the floor (the Spurs just had enough of their own offensive boards to make the whole year positive). Playoffs had more variance. I think that had to do with the different ways Pop would use Green and Kawhi in the playoffs as well as the higher level of compe ion in general, especially when talking about starters. They were always good, but some years the bench was better.

  16. #66
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    At the same time, there are reasons I was a huge fan. I will say that every regular season from 2011-2012 to 2017-2018, the Spurs rebounded better when Danny was on the floor than when he was on the bench. Only in 2016-2017 did the team allow offensive rebounds at a higher rate with Danny on the floor (the Spurs just had enough of their own offensive boards to make the whole year positive). Playoffs had more variance. I think that had to do with the different ways Pop would use Green and Kawhi in the playoffs as well as the higher level of compe ion in general, especially when talking about starters. They were always good, but some years the bench was better.
    Greatest one on three defender in NBA history.

  17. #67
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    This guy cracks me up
    Yikes. But I'm sure he's a very supportive father. Lol.

  18. #68
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Yikes. But I'm sure he's a very supportive father. Lol.
    Is that guy Lewis Black's druggie son or some ?

  19. #69
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Greatest one on three defender in NBA history.
    It's a shame Danny isn't remembered as the best transition defender of his era because Lebron got a chase-down block on Iggy one time.

  20. #70
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    That could stand to be higher, not lower. League average 3PAr (three point attempt rate; what % of a team's shots are threes) is 39.1%, and the Spurs as a team are currently 9th in the league at 40.8%. If you want 40% 3PAr as a team you would want your best shooters to be above that.

    Edit: I just looked it up, Keldon's 3PAr is 42.6% right now. That's probably a good number, though for a 37.1% three point shooter like him (a bit above league average) I would be okay with it being even higher. Vassell is at 50.8% for comparison.

    Yeah, but if you ask me, Keldon isn't the guy who's scoring output should come mainly from shooting threes.
    Vassell for example is, but we all got hyped about Keldon because of his motor and the ability to constantly attack the paint.
    That has been completely neutered over the past year or so.

  21. #71
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    [Keldon’s] defense is his limiting factor... this play stuck out to me yesterday.

    first i was thrilled because a smart double came. in many of our games, you'd see the guy in branham's position go for the double and give up a ridiculously easy 3. …

    So it’s better that Keldon gives up a 3 than that Branham does? Oh, never mind.

    The smartness of that double by Keldon is arguable. It looks like game plan, tho, so Keldon probably can’t be faulted for trying it.

    this time, keldon made the correct decision. sochan then moves to cover for keldon and plays between the two guys. good. keldon's double is effective, distracts davis enough for wemby to swipe at the ball, AD has to pick it up. good. as soon as he passes it out, johnson turns around and starts... jogging toward the corner. …

    The team did get the rotations correct, at least. That’s progress.

    You missed the first problem with what Keldon did. He jumped at Davis’ pass.

    The jump, which accomplished absolutely nothing good, put Keldon 6 or 7’ farther from where he needed to go, to rotate, and it gave him momentum in the wrong direction. The jump contributed significantly to the delay in Keldon getting across to the corner.

    If Keldon had knocked it off, with that foolish jump, and just rotated, he would probably have gotten there in time.

    Notice Branham jumping at the ball, also, when Davis passed. The idiots think they’re kangaroos.

    On another note, Victor needs some serious big-man coaching, which the Spurs are obviously incompetent to provide. When Victor has his elbows in, and his hands in front, (as that video shows,) he’s maybe 3’ wide, if that. When Victor extends his arms he’s 8’ wide. It doesn’t take a math major to know which is better for defense.

    The whole team would do better if they’d stop the foolish kangaroo imitations, and stop swiping at the ball pointlessly, and just extend their arms and play defense. But that would take coaching to achieve.

  22. #72
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    So it’s better that Keldon gives up a 3 than that Branham does? Oh, never mind.
    Huh? If branham doubled there it would have been a disaster since that’s just a simple pass from Davis with no opportunity to rotate. It’s the proverbial “double team from one pass away” when that happens. That’s bad.

    this is why I’m glad that in this scenario, the double came from keldon and not branham

  23. #73
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    While Spurs might end up trading Keldon, I doubt it will be this season and even more to GSW. Warriors have nothing of interest for Spurs.
    You’re probably right on next year. I think distant picks of quality would get the Spurs attention, and teams whose stars will be in the decline soon like GSW, Philly, etc should be top targets. In think that CP3 contract will start burning a hole in GSW’s pocket if they don’t use it as an expiring this year.

    The other team to watch is the Knicks, who have interesting assets. They were said to be saving their war chest for Embiid or Towns, but both of their teams have righted their ships. Would they get desperate and look for less high profile players now? Do the Spurs like IQ enough?

  24. #74
    Veteran JeffDuncan's Avatar
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    You really do think it’s better that Keldon gave up the 3 than that Branham did.

    You’re funny.

  25. #75
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    You really do think it’s better that Keldon gave up the 3 than that Branham did.

    You’re funny.
    sure jan

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