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  1. #26
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Sochan needs a change of scenery. rascal is right that he really wasn’t great last year, but he showed flashes. But the PG experiment utterly failed, and it’s not as though he’s thriving now back at PF. Maybe it’s true that Pop already saw that he might not fit and tried the PG experiment as a Hail Mary.

    If Sochan never develops at least a serviceable shot, he won’t make it in the NBA. If he does, he’ll be a valuable utility forward. But that will happen somewhere else.
    His defense is the most frustrating thing. What's the point of having him on the floor if he's not going to hustle and play even league average defense? He has the size and athleticism that he should be an above average defender but instead he's barely better than traffic cones like Collins, Johnson, and McDermott. Takes balls to wear Rodman's number while being a bottom third tier defender.

  2. #27
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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    Sure this season is a loss cause but Pop's refusal to play Tre Jones with Wemby or get a good PG is actually a strategy for the long run.

    1) Without a good PG, it would force Wemby to really show the world what he have, talents and skillswise offensively. Yes, it could be ugly and expose Wemby's mistakes and weakness. But knowing Wemby's compe iveness, work ethic and willing to learn at ude, all these mistakes and embarrassment will drive Wemby to train crazy hard in the coming offseason (although the Paris Olympics might delay the training a bit).

    Pop want to leave no doubts to Wemby that the NBA is "not easy". Scouts, GMs etc may praise Wemby is the best prospect of all time with GOAT potential but it is for Wemby to really understand that it will not happen automatically unless Wemby really put in real hard work in order to get somewhere. Tbh, there are just too many number 1 picks who have the talents but don't have the work ethics and drive to train hard. Pop just want this season to really drill it into Wemby's bone that he is not adequate and hence Wemby would always keep this fire burning even when he get MVPs in his latter years.

    I am sure Wemby by now is already aware that he currently don't have the dribbling skills and handle to attack from the perimeter in the NBA. Take KD as example, KD trained hard after his rookie year and his handle really tightened and it became a unsolvable weapon starting from his sop re year. I remember even Kobe mentioned this in a interview (once KD tightened his handle, Kobe knew it was over. There is nothing stopping KD from driving and he became one of the best pull up shooter)

    So if Wemby can start the next step like KD, his "individual" offensive skills would be up a whole notch. Wemby has shown desires to attack from the perimeter and also admitted that he watched a lot of KD's tapes. So becoming like KD is still something possible. But there is still something that can unlock Wemby's offensively even higher.

    2) Now that is where a good PG comes in. Beside able to create his own shot by attacking the perimeter with a better handle, now imagine if there is a good PG who can throw him lobs to get easy transition points or at least get fouled and get to the FT line. This lob attack is something that even KD is not privileged to have. Wemby is blessed with the height and the length and the mobility to get transition points and a good PG will truly unlock Wemby's offensive talents. Pop might not want Wemby to be complacent if he can get easy points through a good PG now and results in Wemby not being motivated to train his individual offensive skills. In addition, without a good PG now, it would leave a great territory of untapped potential that Wemby can be much better (i.e. not showing the world what Wemby truly can do). What is important now is that Wemby understand by heart that he can be better individually and don't take wins for granted and be complacent.


    Hence, this is why Pop is being patient and playing the long game. Yes, it might look bleak now. But once things finally come together, the Spurs could have 1 of the best turnaround wins season again.


    --------------------------------------------------------

    absolutely nailed it

    best post in the whole world, totally agree

    Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooo SPURS go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #28
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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  4. #29
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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  5. #30
    Drive for Five! ambchang's Avatar
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    Wembenyama will not change basketball. I mean, how many 7’5” guys are out there with that level of coordination.

  6. #31
    SA fan since 03 playoffs spursparker9's Avatar
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    Let's be more patient and let cooler head prevail. I am sure we will feel differently on draft lottery night

  7. #32
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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  8. #33
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I don't think OP is a sniffer normally. Sounds like they had a change of heart.

  9. #34
    SA fan since 03 playoffs spursparker9's Avatar
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    I think we need to trade Sochan. Not sure he is blind but seems like he is intentionally not making any effort to look for the 7'4 guy

  10. #35
    half man half amazing
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    Under the logic of this post, Tre Jones is so good of a pg that popovich needs to find the worst possible person on the roster to play point otherwise Wemby’s development somehow will be impaired?

  11. #36
    SA fan since 03 playoffs spursparker9's Avatar
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    Under the logic of this post, Tre Jones is so good of a pg that popovich needs to find the worst possible person on the roster to play point otherwise Wemby’s development somehow will be impaired?
    It is a big gamble.

    Either Wemby will be fed up and it push him to train hard to become unstoppable 1 on 1 wise and not needing to depend on passes from PG.

    Or

    Wemby will be fed up and demand a trade/leave during FA to elsewhere where there are better PGs

  12. #37
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    I don't think it's genius to frustrate your franchise player and have others not pass him the ball. Or maybe i'm just too stupid to understand.

  13. #38
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    The more I actually think about it, I think if you replaced the old man this past summer with anybody besides Monty, they'd be creeping towards .500

    This is the worst coaching job I've seen in any sport in my lifetime. Absolutely disgusting to see a selfish old man try and sabotage a bunch of young guys' careers. Would be amazing if this somehow turned into his last season.

  14. #39
    Veteran james evans's Avatar
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    The more I actually think about it, I think if you replaced the old man this past summer with anybody besides Monty, they'd be creeping towards .500

    This is the worst coaching job I've seen in any sport in my lifetime. Absolutely disgusting to see a selfish old man try and sabotage a bunch of young guys' careers. Would be amazing if this somehow turned into his last season.
    I've been saying for years that he wants to destroy this franchise on his way out to ensure no one wins more than 5 les. It makes no sense the bull he's done the past few years

  15. #40
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Pop calls up Cissoko and Wesley, but not Barlow.

    Pop might be a genius. An idiot savant!

  16. #41
    Still Sporting Ben Davis Allan Rowe vs Wade's Avatar
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    the thing about Pop is it'll take about 3 years to determine if he's a genius or biden/trump-level dementia patient

    is he playing the long game or does he have no short-term memory? tbd tbh

  17. #42
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    This draft and having a culture of losing for your generational talent <<<<<<< winning and growing but having a lower draft pick.

    Anyone advocating tanking post Wemby is a loser. You do not sacrifice a healthy season of growth for a potential MVP talent, EVER, morons.
    That might be your opinion, but it’s not even remotely true. This league has shown over the past decade or so that you can’t win with one star, and only way for small markets to get such a player is through the draft. Ergo, tanko.

  18. #43
    Veteran offset formation's Avatar
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    Laying it on a little thick. But overall, a sneaky second tank while focusing on player development is ultimately ideal. The team severely lacks talent, and two top ten picks will solve that. Pop IS the only coach in the league that can lose 60ish games back to back and still keep his job, and his reputation. Wemby is literally getting better every month and guys like Branham and Vassell are starting to take steps forward. This year sucks, but at least the sacrifice looks worth it.
    I was trying to root you along until you got to Branham and Vassell. Just no. Neither one of those players is getting better this year. I'll give you Vassell took a step forward last year and Branham had a decent rookie campaign but in no way can you say either has improved. Vassell chucks up 3s and Branham has a TO issue this year since he's handling the ball more. And Branham is non-existent on defense while Vassell is sometimes engaged and others not at all.

    This team loses because of defense, historically bad at that. And neither one of those guys is helping on that end.

  19. #44
    Believe.
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    Pop calls up Cissoko and Wesley, but not Barlow.

    Pop might be a genius. An idiot savant!
    Barlow still 4th on the depth chart. Wemby was available up until practice. There is no point dressing the 4th guy.

  20. #45
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    That might be your opinion, but it’s not even remotely true. This league has shown over the past decade or so that you can’t win with one star, and only way for small markets to get such a player is through the draft. Ergo, tanko.
    Wemby gets to have the distinction of being the only “Generational Talent” whose team sucked so bad it had to continue tanking after drafting him.

    An historic level of roster mismanagement.

    Also, here is a list of small market teams with stars they didn’t draft on their team:

    Milwaukee Bucks (Dame)
    Indiana Pacers (Halliburton)
    Sacramento Kings (Sabonis)
    Oklahoma City Thunder (SGA)
    New Orleans Pelicans (Ingram)

    So, half of the NBA’s small market teams have managed to find a star without drafting them. The Spurs have the capital to acquire better players or even another star, if they wanted, but instead they’re going to rely on the draft. This is a team, however, that has has a history of making great picks but has fallen off significantly since the Derrick pick in 2017. You can argue that since then, Keldon and Wemby are the only picks they’ve gotten right.

  21. #46
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    I'm flipping my stance on Pop. The more I watch, the more I'm convinced that no one could coach this bunch of misfits to anything resembling a decent W/L record. These guys might lose in G League games.

  22. #47
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Barlow still 4th on the depth chart. Wemby was available up until practice. There is no point dressing the 4th guy.
    That's a problem as well. Chimezie can tell you what it is.

  23. #48
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Wemby gets to have the distinction of being the only “Generational Talent” whose team sucked so bad it had to continue tanking after drafting him.
    It's not that they have to. It's just the best strategy. And before you think otherwise -- where are the teams that tried to "flip the switch" immediately after drafting their "generational talent"?

    The Hawks are terrible and have no help for Trae (yeah he's not strictly "generational" but w/e), nor much assets to get him some in the meantime. The Mavs are in a remarkably similar position and depend on a rookie bigman to hold them together, after crazy "shot in the dark" trades to get any sort of help around Luka. The Pistons... Yeah IDK what they're doing.

    Point is, the Spurs very well could've chosen not to tank, but that's not necessarily the best strategy. And when I say chosen not to tank, I mean actually try to improve the team at all, which they consciously didn't - because there's little point to it with a rookie Wemby, as shown numerous times on other teams ( , DRob could've won more rings before Timmy if the Spurs kept tanking to get him a sidekick earlier).

    Not a lot of "success stories" for immediate win-now moves after drafting rookie generational talents, and please don't include 24-25 YO "rookies" here as it's of course an entirely different ballgame.

  24. #49
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    It's not that they have to. It's just the best strategy. And before you think otherwise -- where are the teams that tried to "flip the switch" immediately after drafting their "generational talent"?
    First off, let's get on the same page of what we are talking about here. Trae Young, or even Luka, aren't part of this conversation. You included a "but whatever" - but you can't simply waive off the criteria for the discussion with a "whatever". Wemby is not simply some top tier prospect that may turn out to be good. Right or wrong, he's been hyped up as some sort of game-breaking phenomenon, the kind of guy you line up a tank years in advance for, a "can't-miss" prospect. So comparing him to Trae or Luka, or even Giannis or Embiid, doesn't pass muster.

    A true "generational talent" prospect (which I will admit, I hate this term) is a no-brainer #1 overall. The only justification for not going #1 overall would be the freak incidence whereby there were two or more "generational talents" in the same draft (which is part of how this term becomes so stupid, but that's another topic). Magic/Bird and Hakeem/Jordan come to mind as the only examples I can think of.

    If we go back to the start of the lottery in 1985, I'd argue these are the "generational talents", and I'm being very generous here as I think there is an argument to be made that only Robinson, Shaq, Duncan, Lebron, Wemby belong on this list. Next to their name I've included the improvement of each team's record in the player's rookie season.

    1987: DRob (+35)
    1992: Shaq (+20)
    1996: AI (+4*)
    1997: Duncan (+36)
    2002: Yao (+15)
    2003: Lebron (+18)
    2012: AD (+6*)
    2019: Zion (-3**)
    2023: Wemby (?)

    I've put an * by the two teams that continued to be horrible. **For Zion's rookie season, which was a net decline in wins, but a higher win % (due to the shortened season).

    Wemby will be the first "generational talent" since the advent of the lottery who's team has failed to get even a little better (by # wins or win %). That's truly embarrassing. The FO has generally done a good job in stock-piling assets so that we can improve the roster around Wemby. In an era where a lot of players need a couple of seasons to develop, I can already see the excuses coming when we are terrible again next season: "Well, we need to give Topic and Dunn (the two guys who game up on my first spin of the Tankathon Mock) time to develop and see what we have around them, it will be good since we'll add more top talent next year!". Then comes the 2025-26 season and it's "we need to give Flagg time to develop! We're the youngest team in the league! Topic/Vassell/Dunn/Flagg/Wemby are going to be a force to recon with, ESPECIALLY when we add another top pick next year!"

    That may in fact be an okay strategy (OKC has seemed to make it work), but then you're running the risk of Wemby not being bought into the clown rodeo that's been put on for the first 3-4 years of his career, which I'll remind you, will be coupled with the distinction of being the first "generational talent" who has failed to appreciably improve his team. We take for granted that Wemby will be here through his first rookie extension. He has plenty of money to make off the court, and could easily be the first ever "generational talent" to just play under a QO and enter UFA after his rookie deal (if he doesn't demand a trade before then).

    Is this chicken little talk? A little bit... but the possibilities are real enough and the Spurs FO has a primary responsibility at this point: keep Wemby happy.

  25. #50
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    First off, let's get on the same page of what we are talking about here. Trae Young, or even Luka, aren't part of this conversation. You included a "but whatever" - but you can't simply waive off the criteria for the discussion with a "whatever". Wemby is not simply some top tier prospect that may turn out to be good. Right or wrong, he's been hyped up as some sort of game-breaking phenomenon, the kind of guy you line up a tank years in advance for, a "can't-miss" prospect. So comparing him to Trae or Luka, or even Giannis or Embiid, doesn't pass muster.

    A true "generational talent" prospect (which I will admit, I hate this term) is a no-brainer #1 overall. The only justification for not going #1 overall would be the freak incidence whereby there were two or more "generational talents" in the same draft (which is part of how this term becomes so stupid, but that's another topic). Magic/Bird and Hakeem/Jordan come to mind as the only examples I can think of.
    I guess I'm just not that invested/hung up on the "generational prospect" label and expectations, then? You say it yourself, it's pretty stupid and wildly thrown around, moreso in the modern era. Zion was supposed to be "generational" as well. Why am I supposed to compare Wemby to freakin' Jordan or Bird or whomever? That's a terribly harsh bar to clear, and I simply don't agree that his rookie season being better or worse than theirs, is defining what his future will look like.


    Wemby will be the first "generational talent" since the advent of the lottery who's team has failed to get even a little better (by # wins or win %). That's truly embarrassing. The FO has generally done a good job in stock-piling assets so that we can improve the roster around Wemby. In an era where a lot of players need a couple of seasons to develop, I can already see the excuses coming when we are terrible again next season (...)

    That may in fact be an okay strategy (OKC has seemed to make it work), but then you're running the risk of Wemby not being bought into the clown rodeo that's been put on for the first 3-4 years of his career, which I'll remind you, will be coupled with the distinction of being the first "generational talent" who has failed to appreciably improve his team. We take for granted that Wemby will be here through his first rookie extension. He has plenty of money to make off the court, and could easily be the first ever "generational talent" to just play under a QO and enter UFA after his rookie deal (if he doesn't demand a trade before then).

    Is this chicken little talk? A little bit... but the possibilities are real enough and the Spurs FO has a primary responsibility at this point: keep Wemby happy.
    Sorry to say, but no doubts here -- this is definitely chicken little talk, lol. Wemby has about a -100% chance of playing under a QO. His greatness basically guarantees him a blank cheque from the FO, and with the amount of money a #1 pick's designated rookie max extension will generate, AND his relatively frail body/possible injury concerns, he just will not do that. His "entourage" would be re ed to even suggest it, let alone let him go through with it. Besides, this is the modern NBA - everyone knows you sign the contract first, then you demand the trade

    Secondly... You say this as a terrible thing, but I just don't see how it's "embarrassing" on a personal level for Wemby to not live up to some floor-raising requirement as if it matters at all in the big picture? He's playing with scrubs and everyone knows it. What gives if the media gives him some slack for it? It'll be in between a mix of his highlights, no doubt. I don't see it having had an impact on another rookie's career before, and I don't think a player with a poise and character like Wemby's would be the first to fall for something like "OMG the embarrassment of not getting your team to the playoffs!!" or something.

    He's a 19 year old rookie big man. Him not being ready to lift a team is anything but unexpected. People just don't realize how much more prepared players like Timmy, Drob etc were coming into the league at 24-25. Lastly, I've said it before, but I absolutely would give Wemby flak if the Spurs were as bad next year. I'm not expecting contention or even playoffs, but improvement in areas for sure, which Wemby (and the team) are already displaying. Baby steps here.

    OTOH, if you're expecting major improvement from the youngest team in the league in the midst of a tanking rebuild, you might have some expectations problems to sort out. It's just gonna take a while, 2 to 3 years for sure. I'm not fully sold on OKC yet, but we'd be lucky to have a similar trajectory at this point.

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