I know that we are in the US but there are more important things than money. I don't know if it's the European thing (French in that case) but I'd leave money on the table for legacy especially when there is still more money than I can spend.
I repeat, and yet, they all always take the money. I don't care what you say sitting in your boxers eating a baguette my dude. Luka is European and has been on an incredibly poorly manage team. Took the money. Gianis. Took the money. Euro's are like everyone else and they take the ing money. Also what are you talking about with teh state income tax? The Spurs have no state income tax and are the ones who can offer the most money.
There’s more to legacy than basketball. Hundreds of millions of marginal dollars managed wisely can deliver a lot of power to change the world in ways that truly matter.
Spurs aren't going to do anything. And it is my belief that if this losing continues and we don't get better, the owners are paying Popovich under the table in that we lose so the attendance can drop and they can sell/move the team. There is no other explanation for the horrendous coaching, lineups and draft picks.
They can offer the 25% max if he hits UFA, which he can do by just playing under the QO in year 5 as you mention. There would be nothing to match in RFA, because he wouldn't sign an offer sheet in this scenario. This is of course is all not all that realistic, as if he really wanted out he would simply demand a trade. My point is, however, that there really is not a financial hook for SA keeping him (especially since he'd just demand a trade and get the same amount elsewhere).
$10mm/year is not all that much in endorsements, especially for a player at Wemby's stature and recognition if he reaches near his potential. The biggest names bring in close to $100mm/year in endorsement deals. Do you think LA/NY/Miami are worth 10% more than San Antonio?
The state income tax issue is largely overblown since a) it only applies to half of the player's games and b) the evidence suggests that players don't care that much since they keep signing with those glamour market clubs, likely because of the additional endorsement potential. Baseball provides us good evidence of this, where 9 of the biggest deals in history are for teams in CA, NY and PA (the 10th in TX, which is evidence that the Rangers are willing to spend the money).
Another factor that causes the state income tax issue to be overblown is that the states with no income tax still find a way to collect their taxes elsewhere. In the case of TX, it through one of the highest property taxes (5th highest) and highest sales taxes (14th highest) in the nation. Granted, I do not make multi-millions a year, but I am a high earner and my overall tax burden in a state with income tax (HI) in lower than it was in TX because what I pay in income tax is less than what I'm saving in property tax. Of course, this all depends on the value of your home... if Wemby wants to live in a 1br apartment in TX, he can save a ton of money in taxes by being in TX - but if he wants to live in a $40MM mansion (I don't think these exist in San Antonio) then the dynamic obviously changes.
Last edited by scott; 01-03-2024 at 01:45 PM.
To put a point on the endorsement thing. Lebron signed a deal with Nike worth a billion dollars alone, compared to his ulative NBA contract career earnings of $497MM.
It is estimated that Lebron's endorsement and business dealings made him close to $900MM in 2022 alone (according to Forbes Magazine). Lebron is involved in a lot more than simply endorsing things, and has made some smart investments along the way, but this is the kind of earning potential possible at the very top of the pyramid. Do you think Wemby has a better chance of achieving this if he is a San Antonio Spur, or a Los Angeles Laker?
This isn't to say that Wemby is definitely going to be a Laker... but it would be very shortsighted to think that the Spurs have a money advantage here.
It's not about all endorsements though, because he can receive those no matter where he plays. Wemby already has a giant shoe deal, which is the as far as I know the bulk of endorsement money most stars receive. He'll get national endorsements anywhere he goes provided he's a star. We're really talking about local endorsements, and I have no idea how that breaks down and whether it makes up for the salary difference. Money is not going to be a factor in this, though. If it were, Wemby would be signing tons of endorsement deals now -- his stock is already really high nationally -- and it doesn't seem like a huge priority.$10mm/year is not all that much in endorsements, especially for a player at Wemby's stature and recognition if he reaches near his potential. The biggest names bring in close to $100mm/year in endorsement deals. Do you think LA/NY/Miami are worth 10% more than San Antonio?
The state income tax issue is largely overblown since a) it only applies to half of the player's games and b) the evidence suggests that players don't care that much since they keep signing with those glamour market clubs, likely because of the additional endorsement potential. Baseball provides us good evidence of this, where 9 of the biggest deals in history are for teams in CA, NY and PA (the 10th in TX, which is evidence that the Rangers are willing to spend the money).
Another factor that causes the state income tax issue to be overblown is that the states with no income tax still find a way to collect their taxes elsewhere. In the case of TX, it through one of the highest property taxes (5th highest) and highest sales taxes (14th highest) in the nation. Granted, I do not make multi-millions a year, but I am a high earner and my overall tax burden in a state with income tax (HI) in lower than it was in TX because what I pay in income tax is less than what I'm saving in property tax. Of course, this all depends on the value of your home... if Wemby wants to live in a 1br apartment in TX, he can save a ton of money in taxes by being in TX - but if he wants to live in a $40MM mansion (I don't think these exist in San Antonio
You talk about a ton of players signing with big markets, but you're overlooking the stronger trend of players re-signing with their original clubs after their rookie deals. , the only time we've seen a player turn down a DPE contract to leave was Harden. If Victor is the average star, he's on the team until a year after he inks the supermax at least. That would be six years at the very least. Unless he's Kawahi and wants to leave no matter what, it seems more likely he'd pull a Giannis and not sign the extension until his sixth year (pushing the trade window into his seventh season) in order to threaten the Spurs into going all-in. (This assumes the Spurs haven't won at least a le with him already by this point. If they have, this tension doesn't really come up at all.)
And where was Lebron when he signed that deal? Small-market Cleveland.
This is technically correct, but the value of said endorsements are a function of the stature a player carries. Wemby playing in a glamour market will increase his personal value versus playing in San Antonio, or Portland, or OKC. This is just the simple economics of marketing. It's arguably why Klay Thompson's endorsement deals are roughly 3x bigger than Jokic, for example. Wemby did ink a $100MM shoe deal already with Nike, but it's not a lifetime deal (which is smart off him, betting on himself that his personal value will only increase over time).
With that said, Giannis is the first small market player to get his endorsement earnings close to about equal to his playing earnings, so maybe he is proving that it is possible. The only other current players who have done this all play, or have played, in major markets (Bron, Curry, Durant). I'd still very much argue that if Coke, or GMC, or Verizon wanted Giannis or Wemby to be in their commercials, they would be more valuable as the star or the Lakers or Nets than the star of the Spurs or Bucks.
And where was Lebron when he signed that deal? Small-market Cleveland.
Correct, but only after playing in Miami. Did playing Miami raise Lebron's stature and thus his endorsement value? It's impossible to know for sure... but it is where Lebron became and NBA champion, in a glamor market, with a highly visible team with other high profile players. Think what you want about Lebron the person (I think he's great, personally), but there is no denying that he has demonstrated savvy at maximizing the value of his brand.
I'll be the first to say that money won't be the reason he leaves, but it won't be the reason he stays either.
Last edited by scott; 01-03-2024 at 05:32 PM.
I wonder if DET is desperate enough to get some vets/depth if they are a team that would pay picks for Doug+Cedi? Maybe not a first, but multiple seconds which is prob best SA can do at this point and would be considered a win for SA since they need to turn those guys over anyways on the roster and they are FA’s
yea that crossed my mind....but hoping thats whats not going on....
Unfortunately, the Pistons have already traded away their 2024 second round pick. It went to the Knicks, and they flipped it to Toronto as part of last week's Quickley/Barrett/Anunoby deal.
But they do have the higher of the Grizzlies' and Wizards' 2024 second. This will most likely be the Wizards and will be maybe a pick or two behind the Pistons' natural pick. The #33 pick isn't worth appreciably less than the #30 pick, so I would totally be on board with flipping a player for that.
I don't think the Pistons would bite, but teams do dumb things sometimes.
in what universe is a 3-30 team sending draft capital for expiring vets?
SA should be able to add a talented, youngish vet (maybe two) via free agency this summer or the next one at the latest with no significant draft capital expended. The opportunity to get heavy minutes and have Wemby behind you will be a fit for someone. Roster churn will be going on this year and next. They should have a good amount of cap space in the next 3-4 years as they build this thing from the current situation to something much better (hopefully). This situation is still just slightly beyond ground zero right now.
The Spurs investor group includes a bunch of people who do not get to the point of owning a chunk of an NBA franchise and then proceed to destroy its value. The ownership group is used to winning in business, not losing.
Why would the Spurs pay Popovich the highest salary in basketball AND pay him "under the table"? That makes no sense.
This is and will be the only major league franchise in San Antonio for the next few decades. P*ssing it away by bad management decisions won't fly for very long, IMO.
2024 free agent class is pretty poor.
as far as young-ish point guards, its a lot of guys who cant shoot, like markelle fultz, dennis smith jr. theres Tyus Jones who has at least become a respectable shooter in recent years, but not really the most inspiring get, and has the same issue as his brother of being undersized defensively. i think monte morris could be a nice backup, but we already have 10 mil committed to Tre as our backup next year. and if you just want a small guy who can shoot and not much else theres aaron holiday
at SG, malik monk has actually come along nicely and is playing well right now. he's an undersized 2, but a nice player. deanthony melton can be a decent bench combo guard, but nothing that really moves the needle. gary trent shouldnt be as expensive as his last contract, but again, not a needle mover. grayson allen is playing himself into a solid contract, but he's not that young, as i think he was a 23 year old rookie or somethin like that. and then there's lonnie
forward is also pretty thin. if you were looking for guys younger than, say, cedi osman, there's again not much. there's kelly oubre who has been around for a while but finally is playing good ball for a good sixers team. theres miles bridges who has played well, but yeah, i dont see that happening. and then there's meh guys like derrick jones jr
caveat being the above are all unrestricted free agents. i dont know what the RFA market is going to look like. anyone worth having will likely be kept. sixers will max out maxey, raptors will re-sign quickly, etc
if the spurs want to add young talent next offseason, its gonna come through the draft, our natural pick will be good, its just a matter of the raptors staying mediocre and delivering a top 10 pick to us
Last edited by spurraider21; 01-03-2024 at 07:30 PM.
There’s a of a lot more money to be made in Seattle or Las Vegas than there is in San Antonio.
What doesn't make sense is how we drafted the best player in the draft and that made us worse than last year. THAT doesn't make sense.
the spurs this year should have been better than the spurs last year, as reflected by their O/U being about 30 wins. and then next year with further development/improvement they naturally should have been competing for the play-in with some additional rookie contributors. at that point it would make sense to spend some legit money on good vets who aren't washed.
but given the atrocious coaching and lack of player development, we basically stalled and fell a year behind. dont really see how the spurs make progress in free agency next year. imo they just eat some contracts like they did with cedi/bullock/payne
not really sure what they can do at the deadline. nobody is going to be buying mcdermott/osman/graham the same way we've had buyers in years past for thad young/josh richardson/jakob
DPoY always goes to the best defender on a top 5 defensive team. CIA pop instructing the supporting cast to collapse the paint and coat wemby the DPoY, thus not having to overpay. Genius.
Teams tired of losing that need actual depth and are losing because of it.
Im not saying its smart and I prefaced it with them being desperate so not sure what’s funny tbh…
We'll see. I'm pretty sure that he is gone if the team is as bad as it is right now. Where did I talk about income tax?
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