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That’s a beyond glass half empty mindset with an extreme outlier too. But fine, let’s say 3/4 picks don’t work out. You just named three so…. Yup bring on next year.
This is such a weird thread. You'd think after that first Portland game the anxiety level of STers would drop back down to a normal level. I can understand wishing the Spurs had made a win-now move during the off-season, though I wasn't in that camp (I wanted the Spurs to aggressive target a second first-rounder to draft a PG of the future). It's much harder to rationalize wanting the Spurs to make a trade for either of these guys now that they're 20 games under .500. If you're one of those people who thinks giving touches Wemby needs to be the top focus of the team, Quickley would've been a horrible fit as a score-first PG that shoots outside jumpers way more than he penetrates. While OG could've made some sense earlier in the year, trading anything of value for him now would've been extremely risky.
The only way out with this roster is through at this point. They have to get through this year, get what are hopefully two top-10 picks and go from there. They'll have a whole bunch of future firsts at that point, and they definitely should be using some of those to fill out their rotation. There are a lot of future moves I'd like them to make. But for now, the last two of three games really seem to be what folks should be hoping for -- An occasional win with signs of Victor dominating, the team working together and Pop being engaged spread out within a season of mostly losses. I legit get that the prospect of that might sound horrible to watch, but whatever mentality folks used to get through last year, they should try to call upon that again. If you're not a person who cares about the minutia of the game and instead need to see the big trends, it might be a struggle, because I don't think it's going to get dramatically better. No amount of sniffer or edging is going to change the broad strokes of the year at this point.
That’s a beyond glass half empty mindset with an extreme outlier too. But fine, let’s say 3/4 picks don’t work out. You just named three so…. Yup bring on next year.
Sochan didn't work out either
Would have been nice to add some talent to this roster since it's Victor, Vassell, and no one.
Slow down…..just year two following a decent year 1.
He's so bad defensively and even worse offensively.
It’s debatably too early to call Branham a bust and definitively too early to say that about Sochan.
You thought that winning our 2nd game in 25 attempts against one of the other worst teams in the league, playing without their 3 best players, would bring folks a level of peace about the direction of this team?
I wouldn't have advocated for using trade capital for Quickly or OG, but I was interested in them as off-season signings. Now that's off the table. Bummer (I don't quite have the same reaction as BB on this one).I can understand wishing the Spurs had made a win-now move during the off-season, though I wasn't in that camp (I wanted the Spurs to aggressive target a second first-rounder to draft a PG of the future). It's much harder to rationalize wanting the Spurs to make a trade for either of these guys now that they're 20 games under .500. If you're one of those people who thinks giving touches Wemby needs to be the top focus of the team, Quickley would've been a horrible fit as a score-first PG that shoots outside jumpers way more than he penetrates. While OG could've made some sense earlier in the year, trading anything of value for him now would've been extremely risky.
The only way out with this roster is through at this point. They have to get through this year, get what are hopefully two top-10 picks and go from there. They'll have a whole bunch of future firsts at that point, and they definitely should be using some of those to fill out their rotation. There are a lot of future moves I'd like them to make. But for now, the last two of three games really seem to be what folks should be hoping for -- An occasional win with signs of Victor dominating, the team working together and Pop being engaged spread out within a season of mostly losses. I legit get that the prospect of that might sound horrible to watch, but whatever mentality folks used to get through last year, they should try to call upon that again. If you're not a person who cares about the minutia of the game and instead need to see the big trends, it might be a struggle, because I don't think it's going to get dramatically better. No amount of sniffer or edging is going to change the broad strokes of the year at this point.
With that said, had we made a trade for Quickly, I wouldn't have viewed it as a "win-now" move, I would had viewed it the same as aggressively targeting a second first-rounder to draft a PG of the future: a move to get the PG of the future.
Given that, don't disagree that the path is through at this point. My only difference of opinion would be that the rebuild becomes significantly easier if we can fill one of our holes with a young, yet relatively proven, quan y. What I liked about the idea of Quickly (and kind of like about the idea of maybe bringing DJM back if it came cheap and his at ude was right, which it probably wouldn't and probably won't be) was that it allows us to still take a PG with one of our (hopefully) top-10 picks (ideally the second one) who can play a significant backup role rather than being relied on as a starter. I'd then use the other pick (ideally the first one) to take the best 2/3/4 prospect.
My ideal scenario looked like this:
Quickly/Draft Pick
Vassell/?
Draft Pick/Johnson
Sochan/?
Wemby/Collins
If you could have done this without using draft capital, then you'd still have it all to make a move for a 2nd star. Say it's a two guard who can kick Vassell to the bench, all of a sudden you have a team that is still young but is ready to start the OKC-like march to relevance in Wemby's second season.
But... Quickly is off the board. On to plan B.
This. Getting better players on the roster so development comes as a team you actually want to keep is much better than putting your generational talent with a group of traffic cones and AAU level court vision/shooting guys. No one says you have to win after you acquire talent to surround Victor, just that this development stage means something. Seems more like a money saving move than a team building move. That's just me though, I don't know , admittedly.
Since I've essentially said as much ad nauseam, suffice it to say I was with you until this.
There's no realistic scenario where Vassell will be moving to the bench nor is his game suited for a 6th man role.
There isn't a plan B that is such a theoretical hand in glove fit.
Yep, this is exactly the point that so many of us are trying to make. Improving the talent level of the team does not equal "win now" moves. Most people aren't looking for those (save those who wanted Dame this offseason - though I love Dame, I was not one of those people). We just want moves that move us forward and maximize every year of Wemby's career. By simply building via top draft picks, we slow the process down and increase a higher degree of risk in the rebuild. Every top talent is 19 these days, not all of them pan out, and the ones that do need years of development.
In that case Devin needs to either start showing significant improvement, or will eventually need to get traded. I don't see him being good enough right now to have his role on a championship caliber team. It works for now, since we are nowhere near that, and there is still time. But not loving it so far these season. For as wet as his jumper has looked at times this season, he appears to be regressing in every other aspect of his game.
Or Lonnie Walker. But who’s keeping track.
OG is 26 and Quickly is 24. Why are people labelling them win now players?
Anyway - OG was always going to the Knicks. Spurs have nothing the Raptors or Knicks want or need. Well besides Wemby.
Maybe Quickly keeps the Raps out of the bottom six in the draft, in which case I call it a win.
Isn't it obvious that both teams wanted players and not draft capital. What exactly do you think Brian Wight could have offered that made the Raptors or Knicks better?
Raptors would love to get their pick back, so they can sell Siakam and do proper tank
Nah, he just needs to have his role streamlined offensively, which should naturally happen as Wembanyama develops and they find a lead creator. That should also allow him to devote more energy defensively.
Even as is, he's clearly the only player not named Wembanyama that's good enough to start for a quality team.
Estimated Plus-Minus (EPM) (dunksandthrees.com)
They’ve never shown any inclination to do a tank, being buyers the last two years, and using OG’s expiring to buy this year. NY had draft assets to send dead contracts instead of Quickley, but that’s not what happened.
Sochan is a bust if you were expecting a starting caliber player.. I don't think that statement is to early...
Well it seems perfectly clear that SA wants to throw this season away to get a high lottery pick and then build the team around Wemby in the offseason. Quickley and Anunoby will be available in the offseason if the Spurs want those guys. I'm fine with them not making any other major trades until the offseason. Anything that immediately improves this roster takes them out of the lotter discussion and the potential to get another "great" player to pair with Wemby for years to come.
Who knows if it is the right decision?!? Only time will tell. But the Spurs will have the money and draft capital to make a play on anything that is available and maybe some players that are "not available."
I think they worry about the Doncic situation where the team improves to quickly in one season that they get stuck in a position where they continually win, but are not true contenders. The Mavs got good so fast that they didn't have years to ac ulate assets and now they are forced to rely on Doncic's greatness and a player that may or may not believe the earth is flat. And Kyrie is an unstable player. One Kyrie WTF episode could trigger Doncic pushing for a trade.
Quickley is a RFA so BWrong would have to throw an enormous overpay, say a max contract, to get Toronto to not match. Anunoby is already making it clear he's reupping on the Knicks. They're going to run the same tired ass team out again next year with a couple of rookies so I guess let's hope that 14% chance for Cooper Flagg hits with a third terrible season.
Eh, there are always players that will become available. It's not like Anunoby was leading the Raptors to the playoffs and if you tell me that the best guard available for the next three years is Quickley, then I think I'd take my 14% chance of getting Cooper Flagg.
Issue is, Quickley isn't a good fit. He's a worse fit than Keldon is. So any scenario that involves the Spurs paying Quickley market value on a long-term deal isn't a great use of resources. It's not enough to justify any acquisition with "I want to add talent to the team". There are plenty of ways to inappropriately add talent that doesn't help the team's long-term position. Trading for a pick to draft a PG and have him on a rookie salary for four years is not at all the same thing as trading for a young vet PG in order to pay substantial money to. I get that you weren't pushing for the Spurs to trade for Quickley, but practically speaking, he might not have been a realistic free-agent target if they hadn't.
Yes, I thought the Spurs winning again while showing a lot of progress in working with Wemby to create scoring opportunities would stop the spiraling STers are going through. The Spurs don't actually have a talent issue when the goal is to continue an organic rebuild. As I said, the only way out is through. Through doesn't mean making a trade using some undisclosed assets in the hope that the average NBA players are actually better than the players on the Spurs. It means surviving the year without substantial changes, get the best picks you have and then reevaluate. Your plan to have a starting PG and to use a top-10 pick on a backup is fine, but that PG doesn't have to be a young player on a long-term deal. The team doesn't need more young players with the ball forced in their hands. They need players who can help a motivated coaching staff get good things out of their talent, both already on the team and that will hopefully be brought in.
The team should be looking at continuing to add a lot of players in the draft over the next few years. Even if Wemby is going to pull a Lebron and will his team to the Finals in year four, it's quite possible the young impact players are mostly different than any of the guys on the team now. They shouldn't feel the pressure to acquire more young vets with an eye toward them being part of that hypothetical team. Unless they think the guy their acquiring is a future star, I'd much rather than look for older stabilizing players than giving out any long-term deals.
He didn't even have a decent year last year. I don't know where people are coming up with this.
Look at the numbers last year and this year, they are about the same except up in 3pt %(still with limited shot attempts, he's not a 3pt volume shooter) and down in overall fg%. Defense bad to worse this year and bad last year.
Not strong in any area of his game.
They burned a number 9 overall pick on a backup role player talent.
Just you watch now— Detroit is gonna make a panic trade for Siakim after being linked to OG and missing out. Making decisions out of fear and panic is exactly how NOT to run a front office. For that, I’m pleased the Spurs kept powder dry on those players honestly, and that management is aligned on being patient.
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