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  1. #576
    Kiwi, Advanced Stat Fan
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    I think we'll see upgrades, but I don't think we're at the point where we should swing for the fences, as I don't think (for instance) a Trae / Wemby team is good enough to beat Denver now.
    I'd be looking at teams that should be looking to tank / move in a different direction, have decent players that fit the archetypes we want, though may be cheaper in assets and dollars than the superstar option.

    Options
    Portland - tanking, will suck. Ant, Brogdon and Scoot are all PG's. Brogdon for a few seconds would be fine.
    Washington - definitely tanking. I don't think Poole and Kuzma are worth their deals, only attractive piece is Deni, which would probably take a good 1st (e.g, Toronto pick).
    Utah - Danny Ainge tanking for a white boy from Maine - better believe it. I think Lauri is comfortably their best piece, and they should be open to offers in the realm of 3 firsts (e.g, Keldon, Toronto, Chicago, Charlotte picks as a base). I think OKC would outbid, though the Lauri - Wemby fit makes sense to me. I'd also be interested in Sexton as a cheaper version of an effective on ball guard. Probably takes a first (not a great one, but a first, or something like the fake Charlotte pick plus).
    Philly - Tobias Harris in FA, depending on how Paul George decides. If Tobias is a FA and Philly doesn't keep him, I think he's a good FA option as a big shooting forward. Not worth his current max, though at something like 3 years 75m would be fine.

    Then, naturally, teams will flame out in the playoffs and decide they need to adjust (Cleveland could move on from their two smalls / two bigs construction, Pelicans could adjust the Ingram / Zion fit) or run into the upcoming tax issues and decide they need to get out from salary (the obvious Towns / Nat trade option).

    E.g, say the Toronto pick conveys and they get Buzelis and Shepard, trade Keldon, the Charlotte pick + some second round picks for Sexton, sign Tobias.

    Sexton / Vassell / Sochan / Tobias / Wemby
    Tre / Sheppard(Malaki) / Champagnie / Buzelis / Zach
    Blake, Malaki

    Mostly kept all the assets, have a much better team (bit small, but better size than now) and you've mostly kept the powder dry in terms of draft assets.

  2. #577
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I think we'll see upgrades, but I don't think we're at the point where we should swing for the fences, as I don't think (for instance) a Trae / Wemby team is good enough to beat Denver now.
    I'd be looking at teams that should be looking to tank / move in a different direction, have decent players that fit the archetypes we want, though may be cheaper in assets and dollars than the superstar option.

    Options
    Portland - tanking, will suck. Ant, Brogdon and Scoot are all PG's. Brogdon for a few seconds would be fine.
    Washington - definitely tanking. I don't think Poole and Kuzma are worth their deals, only attractive piece is Deni, which would probably take a good 1st (e.g, Toronto pick).
    Utah - Danny Ainge tanking for a white boy from Maine - better believe it. I think Lauri is comfortably their best piece, and they should be open to offers in the realm of 3 firsts (e.g, Keldon, Toronto, Chicago, Charlotte picks as a base). I think OKC would outbid, though the Lauri - Wemby fit makes sense to me. I'd also be interested in Sexton as a cheaper version of an effective on ball guard. Probably takes a first (not a great one, but a first, or something like the fake Charlotte pick plus).
    Philly - Tobias Harris in FA, depending on how Paul George decides. If Tobias is a FA and Philly doesn't keep him, I think he's a good FA option as a big shooting forward. Not worth his current max, though at something like 3 years 75m would be fine.

    Then, naturally, teams will flame out in the playoffs and decide they need to adjust (Cleveland could move on from their two smalls / two bigs construction, Pelicans could adjust the Ingram / Zion fit) or run into the upcoming tax issues and decide they need to get out from salary (the obvious Towns / Nat trade option).

    E.g, say the Toronto pick conveys and they get Buzelis and Shepard, trade Keldon, the Charlotte pick + some second round picks for Sexton, sign Tobias.

    Sexton / Vassell / Sochan / Tobias / Wemby
    Tre / Sheppard(Malaki) / Champagnie / Buzelis / Zach
    Blake, Malaki

    Mostly kept all the assets, have a much better team (bit small, but better size than now) and you've mostly kept the powder dry in terms of draft assets.
    He’s an ending contract next year. They’re not getting 3 firsts, although that will be what Ainge asks. He’ll likely play the year and leave if Utah is still building.

  3. #578
    El rojo y los Spurs!!! Ariel's Avatar
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    He’s an ending contract next year. They’re not getting 3 firsts, although that will be what Ainge asks. He’ll likely play the year and leave if Utah is still building.
    Those are not 3 real first round picks, it's 1 mid lottery, 1 bottom lottery and a fake first round pick. If Lauri agrees to extend and you are guaranteeing yourself an all star through his prime that fits perfectly with Wemby, the cost is well worth it and you have to do it.

  4. #579
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    Those are not 3 real first round picks, it's 1 mid lottery, 1 bottom lottery and a fake first round pick. If Lauri agrees to extend and you are guaranteeing yourself an all star through his prime that fits perfectly with Wemby, the cost is well worth it and you have to do it.
    The Toronto and Chicago picks are VERY real picks and have high chances of conveying. Your original post also didnít mention an extension as a part of the trade, which nullifies my objections.

    I think Lauri is kind of a fake/very borderline AS like Dejounte, guys where everything lines up perfectly for one year. Also, the bolded part of your text will be funny when weíre picking in the late 20s like during the Duncan era. A mid and late lottery pick? Yes, please.

  5. #580
    El rojo y los Spurs!!! Ariel's Avatar
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    The Toronto and Chicago picks are VERY real picks and have high chances of conveying. Your original post also didnít mention an extension as a part of the trade, which nullifies my objections.

    I think Lauri is kind of a fake/very borderline AS like Dejounte, guys where everything lines up perfectly for one year. Also, the bolded part of your text will be funny when weíre picking in the late 20s like during the Duncan era. A mid and late lottery pick? Yes, please.
    I'm not diminishing the value of those picks, they are very good, but everything should be put into context: the best the Toronto pick can ever be is 7 (mid lottery), and the best the Chicago pick can ever be is 9 (11 if it conveys in the first year). If you turned them into 1 all star, that's a top end outcome. Also, Lauri may be a borderline all star if you want, but one that fits perfectly with this team and whose playing style is likely to allow him a long prime, maybe 6/7 more years. Of course I'd rather pick him up in free agency, but if this was the price to ensure he's a Spur long term (think a Siakam like deal), that's a price I'm willing to meet. If not, then it's of course out of the question to s out that kind of draft capital for a one year rental for a bottom team. My point is, these are opportunities worth exploring, most successful teams were opportunistic buyers and that yielded them great returns, like Boston with White, Porzingis, Jrue and Horford, or Denver with Gordon and KCP. Not everything has to come through the draft.

  6. #581
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    Danny Ainge isn't going to give up Markkanen for those three low reward picks. No way. We're talking Danny Ainge here, probably the most notoriously stubborn deal maker in the league. I think Markkanen is way more likely to sign a massive extension in Utah this summer than be traded. I realize that Utah is stuck a bit in purgatory, but I can't see them giving up a 26 year old WHITE budding all-star for anything more than a ridiculous godfather package.

  7. #582
    Kiwi, Advanced Stat Fan
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    I mean, there's no chance Lauri signs an extension given his low starting base (unless the Spurs use cap space to up his number).

    That does reduce his value as you can't lock him up with an extension, but being opportunistic buyers / looking for distressed assets / players who don't fit the timeline / fit / philiosophy of the other team is the thing I'm looking at.
    I don't think Lauri is a top 10 player, but an all star / fringe all star who's a good fit as a offensive player with off ball juice works with Wemby (think of him as Michael Porter Junior in the Denver system, but he's better than MPJ).

    With the extension not being possible, you can probably get it down to 1 1/2 picks of value. Any much lower than that and Utah would just keep him, they'd still be able to get a pick at the deadline from a team who hopes to resign him in FA and who can use him for a playoff push (similar to how Toronto had no chance of signing Poeltl to an extension given his MLE deal, but gave up a first to get him).

  8. #583
    Kiwi, Advanced Stat Fan
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    Good point on Utah signing him to an extension, the lift and extend is probably their best use of space.

  9. #584
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    If Utah doesn't think they can resign Lauri, they still might be able to get more value for him in a S&T than by just trading him on his expiring.

  10. #585
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    If Utah doesn't think they can resign Lauri, they still might be able to get more value for him in a S&T than by just trading him on his expiring.
    Possibly, but that requires a team where Lauri wants to go that also has enough cap room to sign him to a deal he finds palatable. We got really lucky with DeRozan. I’m not sure that deal happens if we’re not in cap rental mode. Not sure where Utah will be in a year. They looked like up and comers last season, and paper tigers this year.

  11. #586
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    Possibly, but that requires a team where Lauri wants to go that also has enough cap room to sign him to a deal he finds palatable. We got really lucky with DeRozan. I’m not sure that deal happens if we’re not in cap rental mode. Not sure where Utah will be in a year. They looked like up and comers last season, and paper tigers this year.
    Knowing Ainge, he showcased Markkanen this season and he'll try to fleece someone in the summer.
    Markkanen would be a great fit next to Wemby, but Ainge's entire existance revolves around trying to fleece naive GMs around the league.

    They'll most likely bottom out and try to get Flagg in the upcoming draft.
    Other than Keyonte George and Kessler, everyone should be up for trade.

  12. #587
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Possibly, but that requires a team where Lauri wants to go that also has enough cap room to sign him to a deal he finds palatable. We got really lucky with DeRozan. I’m not sure that deal happens if we’re not in cap rental mode. Not sure where Utah will be in a year. They looked like up and comers last season, and paper tigers this year.
    Quite the opposite, the beauty of a S&T is it allows a FA to go to a team that doesn't have the cap room (otherwise, they would just sign the FA, there is no need for the S&T). It does require some other pieces to fall into place the right way (For the team to have matching salaries that the original team wants, or is happy to take on in a dump with proper compensation).

  13. #588
    El rojo y los Spurs!!! Ariel's Avatar
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    I mean, there's no chance Lauri signs an extension given his low starting base (unless the Spurs use cap space to up his number).

    That does reduce his value as you can't lock him up with an extension, but being opportunistic buyers / looking for distressed assets / players who don't fit the timeline / fit / philiosophy of the other team is the thing I'm looking at.
    I don't think Lauri is a top 10 player, but an all star / fringe all star who's a good fit as a offensive player with off ball juice works with Wemby (think of him as Michael Porter Junior in the Denver system, but he's better than MPJ).

    With the extension not being possible, you can probably get it down to 1 1/2 picks of value. Any much lower than that and Utah would just keep him, they'd still be able to get a pick at the deadline from a team who hopes to resign him in FA and who can use him for a playoff push (similar to how Toronto had no chance of signing Poeltl to an extension given his MLE deal, but gave up a first to get him).
    Even if he doesn't sign an extension, you could be looking at a deadline deal with a *wink* *wink* arrangement for free agency, like I'm sure Indiana and Siakam or NY and OG agreed on. The key here is whether:
    1) Lauri wants out of Utah
    2) Lauri has a preference for the Spurs
    If both conditions hold true, then his market shrinks a lot (like it happened with Siakam and OG in Toronto) and I think the basic framework laid here isn't unrealistic, maybe you can add another asset, but if Utah knows they're about to lose him for nothing, they would do well to take that deal. Danny Ainge is a ruthless negotiator from a position of strength, where he holds all the cards and forces the other party to bend over and take it with a smile on their face, but this may not be the case (hopefully). In any case, I've long regarded Lauri, Donovan Mitc and Derrick White as the top free agent targets for the Spurs, this is another reason why it may be preferable to avoid a third hard tank, it's hard to sell a star into signing with you when you suck that badly. But if the Spurs make a couple small trades and signings first so that you position yourself where Houston is now, I'm pretty confident in some high profile player wanting to join Wemby in the quest for a ring.

  14. #589
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    As pointed in another thread with Garland, Cavs and Hawks are the two teams that could provide a high quality PG for Spurs. It will depend on what they do in the playoffs, and if these players want to stay with them, but some of Garland, Mitc , Young, Murray could be soon available. They are two teams to keep an eye on.

  15. #590
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  16. #591
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    ^ The Nets would make a lot of sense when I think about it

    As much as I'd take the chance I just don't see him Spurs/Pop compatible

  17. #592
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    As pointed in another thread with Garland, Cavs and Hawks are the two teams that could provide a high quality PG for Spurs. It will depend on what they do in the playoffs, and if these players want to stay with them, but some of Garland, Mitc , Young, Murray could be soon available. They are two teams to keep an eye on.
    I won't rule out Boston. They have extended Jrue Holiday and they will pay a hefty luxury tax (repeater) next season with the salaries ballooning due to the Brown extension (and the Tatum extension looming the next). There is a likelihood of Derrick White being traded. He will fulfill a good role as PG/SG and wont cost much allowing the Spurs to trade for an All-Star/ borderline All-Star wing. And White will be a great complement for Wemby. A trade for White shouldn't be ruled out.

  18. #593
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    Pistons changing leadership. Wonder if this could lead to some opportunities to trade for some of their young talent if they want to go another direction.

  19. #594
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    maybe wright can go back?

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