unpopular opinion on Trae Young

[buttsR4rebounding]

While I am not against trading for Young I would rather have DJM back. He plays better defense, is shooting the 3 very well and really seems to be growing as a player. Is he y at times? Most definitely, but if PATFO are comfortable getting him back then it solves our PG position for the next 4 years at least. I think he can be a #2 or #3 player on a contender. I think he would be worth 2 FRPs even one of the Atlanta picks going back, preferably the 27, but the swap would be ok as well. He has been professional during the trade rumors this year even though he signed a team friendly deal to stay in Atlanta.

[LeBowen]

Dude, I litterally gave you his CAREER POs stats on offense and defense. that's litterally THE overall context

The only thing you gave in the post I replied to was his shooting splits and W/L.
Yes, his defense was atrocious and yes he's still a negative defender.

Then you look at his peers and their achievements.
Fox is a year older and played exactly one series in his career.
Haliburton is a year and a half younger and has yet to make a playoffs appearance.
SGA is the same age and has 13 playoff games. 6 of those with the Clippers. And horrible play-in performance last year.

Who's cherry picking here by pcikng the series where he did well?

I wrote stats for all of his series.
He got destroyed and on by Miami in other series he did really well considering how outmatched the Hawks were.
His best games against Boston and Sixers came late in the series, he improved and adapted.

What's better, making the playoffs and losing or not making them at all?
The entirety of NBA space keeps ting on Trae just because Hawks front office was idiotic enough to pick him over Luka, he couldn't have affected that.
Haliburton is everyone's darling and he's yet to make the playoffs. Has great size for a guard and is as bad of a defender as Trae.

Your argument is the same argument that Kobe fanboys use about how he's got more playoff wins over Duncan and then conviniently ignore that you can't lose playoff games if you don't make the playoffs at all.

By the way, Hawks are 22-28 now after last night loss... But sorry, I'm cherry picking, post me his stats when they win...

Because they're a tier franchise with subpar roster and awful coaching. The only reason Snyder ever had any success was Gobert playing 1v5 defense and being scapegoated for it.
Yes, Trae is a part of the problem on defense, but we kind of have the defensive GOAT in the making...with noone to pass him the ball on offense.

And hey, let's throw our best assets

I'm not the one saying that Spurs should throw like 5 picks at him.
I've said the price I think would be fair. Give them their 2 picks and swap back, with Keldon+Zach to match salaries. Nothing more. They can have Branham and another scrub if they want to.
Or they can have Devin, one of their picks and a swap.

You need to understand that if Hawks keep Trae or trade him to another team, they won't be tanking.
Those two picks will be in 7-12 range. Look at what happened with the Nets. They don't have their own picks, so they're treadmilling.
Those picks can be top5 only if Hawks get ridiculously lucky in the lottery or get the picks back and blow it up.

Or you're telling me that you wouldn't trade a couple of late lottery picks for Trae?

for a vet

He's 25 for s sake.

who proved he's not a leader, not a winner, not a good locker room guy, bad at ude

We don't need him to be a leader, we just need him to get in line and pass it to the tall guy.
I've said my bit about being a winner when comparing him to other point guards of his generation.
Ja being the only successful one so far.
Locker room guy is just nonsense. McMillan got kicked out by players from every team he coached.
I'd like to hear about at ude issues.

(like it or not) disappear during the POs

You can like it or not, but his best playoff games were on the road in NY, Boston and Sixers.
How many players did the same in their early 20s?
His performances are way better than any second option we can realistically get.

Truth is Trae had one good run in 2021 the POs before opponents started to figure him out, and he couldn't adapt. Sure he got his stats but he doesn't make his teams win...

You didn't even read my post, did you? It's like talking to a wall.
Go check the Boston series stats again.

Ask Atlanta how they feel about selling the farm to please him for Dejoutne only to regress as a franchise

Yeah, Hawks that are well-known for doing smart business. It's Trae's fault that they've had two good seasons since Dominique left.

I don't want Trae, that wouldn't end well. Wemby is no Mutombo or Capela for fuke sake.

That's exactly why I'd like Trae. Because he's not good enough to be a Harden (neither is Harden, for the matter), but he'd be great as a second option.

Trae isn't the type of guy ready to make sacrifices who would be just happy throwing lobs to Vic.

How do you know that? I mean I don't know that he would be happy, but you can't know that he wouldn't.
That's why people in the front office are paid big money, to research and investigate .

And I mean, would the guy even want to come here?

He's apparently a Spurs fand and a Texas native, he already spoke highly on Wemby.
Take that as you will.



My entire problem with your take isn't that you don't want Trae, but that you're for some reason convinced Spurs would give up a farm for him and that he'd surely be a massive failure.
And then you try to spin the narrative the way it suits you, while straight up ignoring everything that's going against your take.
I'm acknowledging obvious flaws he has and I'd obviously rather get the next superstar point forward than undersized point guard, but odds of that happening are slim to none.

You can say that Trae would ruin the cap space or be the reason for Wemby leaving, but having a rookie point guard next season is way more likely to result in another sub-30 win season and frustration beginning to grow.

[JPB]

Trae young’s value drops significantly without the ball in his hands. I want the ball in wembys hands.

[ambchang]

Didn't use NY as an example of good front office work, only as an example of reality. It happened. And the Spurs have made enough front office mistakes that I wouldn't be so sure of whatever paths they take.



The Jones-Wemby pairing has shown that a Wemby is a significant positive player with a set up man. Young should make that even better.

Furthermore, at least this year, Young is playing about 8 minutes more per game than Wemby. And the Spurs are getting destroyed when Wemby is off the court. I think those 8 minutes of just Trae wouldn't be destruction any more.

Hawks are 10th in O Rating, Spurs are 27th. They were #2 before adding Dejounte.

As a player Tre is very different from Trae, and I don’t mean in terms of capabilities. Obviously Trae has a MUCH larger skill set and is clearly the better player, but Tre is a better floor general who can run an effective nba offence. Tre isn’t elite I that regard but he is satisfactory, or at best above average in that regard.

I felt Trae is a smaller poor man version of harden. Green light, great passer, get in lane, ball dominant, foul baiters, doesn’t do much on defence or off ball. They win you games but at the expense of the growth of the team. If the spurs are aiming to be pretenders then sure, go for it. They will be a playoff team for sure even in the compe ive west, but the ceiling will likely be a 2nd round exit, or WCF if we get really lucky.

[Kawhi Duncan]

As a player Tre is very different from Trae, and I don’t mean in terms of capabilities. Obviously Trae has a MUCH larger skill set and is clearly the better player, but Tre is a better floor general who can run an effective nba offence. Tre isn’t elite I that regard but he is satisfactory, or at best above average in that regard.

I felt Trae is a smaller poor man version of harden. Green light, great passer, get in lane, ball dominant, foul baiters, doesn’t do much on defence or off ball. They win you games but at the expense of the growth of the team. If the spurs are aiming to be pretenders then sure, go for it. They will be a playoff team for sure even in the compe ive west, but the ceiling will likely be a 2nd round exit, or WCF if we get really lucky.

stop saying Trae is a great passer...tre is a great passer...4:1 turnover ratio and doesn't need the ball for 23 seconds to get assists...trae has a 2:1 ratio...he is an ok passer that gets a lot of highlight passes because he always has the ball...when players like Nash and cp3 were getting Trae's assist averages, they were doing it with significantly higher ast/turnover ratios (4:1)....those are elite passers...dont get caught up in Trae's flashiness...he is highly inefficient not just as a scorer, but as your lead playmaker...theres a reason his teammates have always had an issue with him throughout the years, and NBA players don't vote for him to be an all star...even Pop has issues with him since he got his last coach fired

[ambchang]

stop saying Trae is a great passer...tre is a great passer...4:1 turnover ratio and doesn't need the ball for 23 seconds to get assists...trae has a 2:1 ratio...he is an ok passer that gets a lot of highlight passes because he always has the ball...when players like Nash and cp3 were getting Trae's assist averages, they were doing it with significantly higher ast/turnover ratios (4:1)....those are elite passers...dont get caught up in Trae's flashiness...he is highly inefficient not just as a scorer, but as your lead playmaker...theres a reason his teammates have always had an issue with him throughout the years, and NBA players don't vote for him to be an all star...even Pop has issues with him since he got his last coach fired

Yeah, should’ve said great highlight passer. He’s. It a bad player, I’d say fringe star, maybe even a legit star, but in the ilk of harden and westbrook. They show things that amaze sometimes but overall is just empty calories stat padding.

To clarify, I like Tre, not Trae. Tyus would be a decent stop gap target, not sure why people are so against it. These are improved versions of Avery Johnson, low mistake PGs who runs an offence well, sets up teammates, but will some issues with size. just that the jones brothers can actually shoot somewhat (compared to the little general).

If we can get a Luka or a Mitc , yeah swing for the fences, I just don’t see Trae being that.

[EricB]

Might not get the Toronto pick and even if they do I'm not sold Dillingham will still be on the board when the Spurs would make that pick. But Risacher or Williams plus Dillingham or Sheppard would be really nice. Or even better the #1 pick for Sarr and trade him for a vet.

Risacher the way it’s going is a top 4 guy.

think Dillingham stays in that 5-7 area.

[Ariel]

think Dillingham stays in that 5-7 area.

Which teams would pick Dillingham before the Spurs?
Detroit? Cade, Ivey, Sasser...
Charlotte? Lamelo
Portland? Scoot, Simons, Brogdon
Memphis? Ja, and Shepphard seems like a better fit
Houston? FVV, Amen, Jalen Green

I could see Washington taking him but I don't think he's their first option. Say the Spurs get Toronto's pick... I can see him getting passed over bigger wings and lasting until 7, 8 or 9. Then he's available when the Spurs get to use Toronto's pick... and pass him over for some random guy with open growth plates and (supposedly) great character

[RC_Drunkford]

doesn't make sense to trade for Tyus Jones when we are looking to draft a PG. Unless you want your top 5 pick to spend a full season in the G-League

[TD 21]

Which teams would pick Dillingham before the Spurs?
Detroit? Cade, Ivey, Sasser...
Charlotte? Lamelo
Portland? Scoot, Simons, Brogdon
Memphis? Ja, and Shepphard seems like a better fit
Houston? FVV, Amen, Jalen Green

I could see Washington taking him but I don't think he's their first option. Say the Spurs get Toronto's pick... I can see him getting passed over bigger wings and lasting until 7, 8 or 9. Then he's available when the Spurs get to use Toronto's pick... and pass him over for some random guy with open growth plates and (supposedly) great character

It's possible the Pistons could be high enough on Dillingham that they select him and shop Ivey.

Ball is big, not a POA defender and injury prone, so the Hornets could view Dillingham as a Rozier III replacement.

The Bulls, Craptors, Jazz (top 10 protected otherwise conveys to Thunder) and Wizards could all make sense.

Even the Hawks if they feel a Young trade request looming.

It's all moot anyway though since I maintain the Spurs won't draft Dillingham.

[objective]

Which teams would pick Dillingham before the Spurs?
Detroit? Cade, Ivey, Sasser...
Charlotte? Lamelo
Portland? Scoot, Simons, Brogdon
Memphis? Ja, and Shepphard seems like a better fit
Houston? FVV, Amen, Jalen Green

I could see Washington taking him but I don't think he's their first option. Say the Spurs get Toronto's pick... I can see him getting passed over bigger wings and lasting until 7, 8 or 9. Then he's available when the Spurs get to use Toronto's pick... and pass him over for some random guy with open growth plates and (supposedly) great character

Charlotte did play Ball for years with a 6-1 combo scorer in Rosier, so I wouldn't write them off

But back to the subject of Trae Young....

Rozier might be a fair argument against. Not a great one, but there's something there ...

Basically the same size as Young, similar career 3pt% numbers, about the same volume of 3s per 100 possessions, and a decent passer though not nearly the level of Trae, and was scoring over 20 a game as a primary option ... He was available for a first round pick and expiring money.

Since he got to Miami he's been terrible and his numbers cut in half while he's struggling to adjust

Not saying Young would struggle that way, only that undersized combos who can shoot 35-36% from 3 on high volume is an gettable player for a first round pick and about $25 million a year

[Kevin]

For all the talk about Youngs 3PT shooting he's shot 38% from 3 two out of the last three seasons at high volume.

Its so funny people picking Young apart even though he would be by far the best player on the team besides Wemby.

Young at 43M is way better than Vessel at 26M Keldon at 20M or Zollins at 18M.

As others have said once Young wears the silver and black all the criticism's will vanish especially once Lob City opens up with Wemby. It will be a special thing to behold

[CorrectCrusader]

For all the talk about Youngs 3PT shooting he's shot 38% from 3 two out of the last three seasons at high volume.

Its so funny people picking Young apart even though he would be by far the best player on the team besides Wemby.

Young at 43M is way better than Vessel at 26M Keldon at 20M or Zollins at 18M.

As others have said once Young wears the silver and black all the criticism's will vanish especially once Lob City opens up with Wemby. It will be a special thing to behold

People act like Trae is supposed to win a ring with us by himself. We have Wemby.

[Kevin]

People act like Trae is supposed to win a ring with us by himself. We have Wemby.

For all his faults Young slots in as a second star or third star very well.

Tony Parker was our third star and he was ball heavy with no three shot and please no nonsense about how Parker's game wouldn't translate in today's era because of his lack of outside shooting. His speed and finishing translates to every era.

[Seventyniner]

For all his faults Young slots in as a second star or third star very well.

Agreed. Given how the game is played today he would be a great fit on offense. He's easily the best fit next to Wemby of all the gettable stars.

[r0drig0lac]

As a player Tre is very different from Trae, and I don’t mean in terms of capabilities. Obviously Trae has a MUCH larger skill set and is clearly the better player, but Tre is a better floor general who can run an effective nba offence. Tre isn’t elite I that regard but he is satisfactory, or at best above average in that regard.

I felt Trae is a smaller poor man version of harden. Green light, great passer, get in lane, ball dominant, foul baiters, doesn’t do much on defence or off ball. They win you games but at the expense of the growth of the team. If the spurs are aiming to be pretenders then sure, go for it. They will be a playoff team for sure even in the compe ive west, but the ceiling will likely be a 2nd round exit, or WCF if we get really lucky.

really?

[Ariel]

It's possible the Pistons could be high enough on Dillingham that they select him and shop Ivey.

Ball is big, not a POA defender and injury prone, so the Hornets could view Dillingham as a Rozier III replacement.

The Bulls, Craptors, Jazz (top 10 protected otherwise conveys to Thunder) and Wizards could all make sense.

Even the Hawks if they feel a Young trade request looming.

It's all moot anyway though since I maintain the Spurs won't draft Dillingham.

Detroit could add a 4th PG, but Troy Weaver is walking a thin line and he would need to be fired. I think he takes Sarr, Risacher, Cody Williams, or JaKobe Walter.
Charlotte I believe is trying to go for wings and positional size (Lamelo, Mark Williams, Brandon Miller). Last year they had to go with the highly touted PG in Scoot and they passed in favor or Brandon Miller (the right choice).
Chicago is outside the top 10, chances their own pick lands higher than the Spurs' are very slim. So is Utah, with the addition that their pick goes to OKC (top 10 protected), they're loaded at guard and I don't see Dillingham being their cup of tea.
Atlanta is both unlikely to be higher than the Spurs (currently at 9) AND loaded with PGs in Trae, Dejounte, and Kobe Bufkin. Their FO does highly value small and talented PGs (after all, traded back from Doncic to take on Trae) would they're under pressure to perform and I don't see them going that route unless they move from Trae.

Another possibility is that any of those teams disregards common sense and go for talent, it's not out of the question, but the point I'm trying to convey is not that it's not possible, but unlikely (even more than usual) that they take such a small guard that high in the draft. So I think chances are good he'll be available at the Raptors' pick if it conveys, which is why I didn't mention them (they could be a viable candidate to take a guard like him).

I also don't disagree that the Spurs won't draft Dillingham, but I think it'd be a mistake. I understand that we all look for archetypes and data suggests his isn't the most enticing one, but at some point you just have to look at the talent available and, if the gap is large enough, say it and go with whomever you think is the best available and figure it out later. Dillingham could be a mix between Garland and Garland and Maxey, and I think if he was 3 inches taller iwth a bigger frame he'd be touted as a generational PG prospect, but now lots of people are focusing on other guys despite the fact he's routinely the best player on the floor. I just hope if he's there at 78/9 we don't pass on him for some guy who shoots 25% from 3 and will take years to develop.

[scott]

doesn't make sense to trade for Tyus Jones when we are looking to draft a PG. Unless you want your top 5 pick to spend a full season in the G-League

Or you want your top 5 pick to be a wing.

[TD 21]

Detroit could add a 4th PG, but Troy Weaver is walking a thin line and he would need to be fired. I think he takes Sarr, Risacher, Cody Williams, or JaKobe Walter.
Charlotte I believe is trying to go for wings and positional size (Lamelo, Mark Williams, Brandon Miller). Last year they had to go with the highly touted PG in Scoot and they passed in favor or Brandon Miller (the right choice).
Chicago is outside the top 10, chances their own pick lands higher than the Spurs' are very slim. So is Utah, with the addition that their pick goes to OKC (top 10 protected), they're loaded at guard and I don't see Dillingham being their cup of tea.
Atlanta is both unlikely to be higher than the Spurs (currently at 9) AND loaded with PGs in Trae, Dejounte, and Kobe Bufkin. Their FO does highly value small and talented PGs (after all, traded back from Doncic to take on Trae) would they're under pressure to perform and I don't see them going that route unless they move from Trae.

Another possibility is that any of those teams disregards common sense and go for talent, it's not out of the question, but the point I'm trying to convey is not that it's not possible, but unlikely (even more than usual) that they take such a small guard that high in the draft. So I think chances are good he'll be available at the Raptors' pick if it conveys, which is why I didn't mention them (they could be a viable candidate to take a guard like him).

I also don't disagree that the Spurs won't draft Dillingham, but I think it'd be a mistake. I understand that we all look for archetypes and data suggests his isn't the most enticing one, but at some point you just have to look at the talent available and, if the gap is large enough, say it and go with whomever you think is the best available and figure it out later. Dillingham could be a mix between Garland and Garland and Maxey, and I think if he was 3 inches taller iwth a bigger frame he'd be touted as a generational PG prospect, but now lots of people are focusing on other guys despite the fact he's routinely the best player on the floor. I just hope if he's there at 78/9 we don't pass on him for some guy who shoots 25% from 3 and will take years to develop.

Cunningham is a lead guard on offense, but a big wing on defense. Ivey is a combo guard and Hayes will be gone by the off season at the latest. Obviously, where they pick will play a significant role though.

Henderson wouldn't have paired as well with Ball as Dillingham theoretically would, because the latter is a much better shooter and lesser pedigreed prospect who's viewed as more of a combo than lead guard.

I know, but still.

That was a different Hawks front office regime and Young was considered in a different tier as a prospect than Dillingham, but the former's mindset will be clearer by the draft.

That too.

I agree, but it's just not just about archetype for the front office, but their narrow minded view of what a Spurs "should" be.

[ambchang]

really?

Not sure why not. Tre manages the offence quite well and directs the guys to the spots. He sets up his teammates well. Tre on the other hand is out to get his first.

[Frenchfred]

For all the talk about Youngs 3PT shooting he's shot 38% from 3 two out of the last three seasons at high volume.

Its so funny people picking Young apart even though he would be by far the best player on the team besides Wemby.

Young at 43M is way better than Vessel at 26M Keldon at 20M or Zollins at 18M.

As others have said once Young wears the silver and black all the criticism's will vanish especially once Lob City opens up with Wemby. It will be a special thing to behold

Except that he has a 15% trade kicker so it’ll be 49 million. Do we want to pay 49 millions for a guy who doesn’t defend, doesn’t shoot that great and turns the ball over a lot? That’s taking a big chunk of the payroll.

[tbdog]

My main concern for a deal to get Young, if there is a deal to be made, is Vassell and Sochan gets included. I really think those 2 would be the best complimentary fits for team for a Tre and Wemby.

[vy65]

My main concern for a deal to get Young, if there is a deal to be made, is Vassell and Sochan gets included. I really think those 2 would be the best complimentary fits for team for a Tre and Wemby.

One thing to consider is the hawks lose leverage the longer they wait. Young has an ETO that could make him a 2026 free agent. Essentially, that’s a 2 year window for the Hawks to piece together a team that would give Young a reason to stay. I don’t think they’re currently on that course. If that pattern holds, Young can do what so many other stars do and give his preferred list and have the Hawks watch his value nosedive. If SA was one of his preferred destinations, it’s not inconceivable that the actual package wouldn’t be godawful for us

[baseline bum]

Which teams would pick Dillingham before the Spurs?
Detroit? Cade, Ivey, Sasser...
Charlotte? Lamelo
Portland? Scoot, Simons, Brogdon
Memphis? Ja, and Shepphard seems like a better fit
Houston? FVV, Amen, Jalen Green

I could see Washington taking him but I don't think he's their first option. Say the Spurs get Toronto's pick... I can see him getting passed over bigger wings and lasting until 7, 8 or 9. Then he's available when the Spurs get to use Toronto's pick... and pass him over for some random guy with open growth plates and (supposedly) great character

I could see Detroit taking him since Cade is 6'6" so they could play next to each other. Washington obviously. Not sure why you're thinking Houston wouldn't take him if he's best available. Amen is raw and still a major project with some real bust potential while they already have a higher upside and much higher floor swing 3/4 than Risacher/Williams in Jabari Smith. And if some teams drafting 4-7 don't want Dillingham but don't like the steep dropoff in talent they can always trade the pick to someone who wants a PG. Maybe the Spurs get lucky and Rob slides to 7-9 where they could take him with a hypothetical Toronto pick that has conveyed but I wouldn't count on the stars aligning for it to happen.

[baseline bum]

My main concern for a deal to get Young, if there is a deal to be made, is Vassell and Sochan gets included. I really think those 2 would be the best complimentary fits for team for a Tre and Wemby.

Do you think Trae Young has better trade value of Durant from a year ago? I don't see it.