This team is unwatchable right now - Sorry for the rant

[FuzzyLumpkins]

theres also the roster spot vacated by McDermott now being temporarily occupied by Morris (ive been expecting barlow to get a multiyear deal low on guarantees to fill that spot once the morris situation is resolved).

yes, the spurs have a history of churn, but this year its simply an issue of not having more contracts set to expire this offseason. they're going to have to aggressively trade away players to free up space if they want to churn more than what BB described.

In the past the Spurs would do something like the Thomas trade to clear roster. Thus my comment about not being able to see it not necessarily meaning we are stuck.

[spurraider21]

KJ and Collins have regressed. Who else?

Wemby has improved consistently. I think Wesley, Jones, Champagnie, and Sochan are playing better.

We taking issue with Branham busting?

keldon/collins are pretty significant players, both in terms of expected role (came into the season as starters) and salary, so they weigh quite heavily in the assessment, yes.

i dont know that champagnie is really playing better. he's become the nominal starter but hasnt played particularly well for most of the season. has some games here and there with increased defensive activity, but i dont think he's gotten better. i feel largely the same with sochan. i dont think he's any better than last year. his 3pt shot has come back down to earth (again), nor is he really having notable defensive impact most of the time. there have maybe been about 4-5 games where ive felt he was a force on that end. a number of games where he's been kind of invisible and passable on that end (not good enough for him), and then games where he's just been completely ineffective

branham has looked worse than last year (better last 2 games)

wesley has had some really nice stretches this year, but his inability to really do anything on offense has stuck out lately, and his defensive impact hasnt quite been there the way it was when he first started getting real minutes. im still ok with his development for now.

Tre also is about the same as last year, if that. his defensive shortcomings have been more glaring this year, imo

and then you could just see the team's performance in its totality. they're performing worse than last year despite adding a very impactful wemby

[FuzzyLumpkins]

keldon/collins are pretty significant players, both in terms of expected role (came into the season as starters) and salary, so they weigh quite heavily in the assessment, yes.

i dont know that champagnie is really playing better. he's become the nominal starter but hasnt played particularly well for most of the season. has some games here and there with increased defensive activity, but i dont think he's gotten better

branham has looked worse than last year (better last 2 games)

wesley has had some really nice stretches this year, but his inability to really do anything on offense has stuck out lately, and his defensive impact hasnt quite been there the way it was when he first started getting real minutes. im still ok with his development for now.

Tre also is about the same as last year, if that. his defensive shortcomings have been more glaring this year, imo

and then you could just see the team's performance in its totality. they're performing worse than last year despite adding a very impactful wemby

Champagnie is playing about as well as a starter as he was as a backup. That is an up in difficulty with the same output. He has gone from being mostly harmless to occasionally impacting a game in that role. If you want to to say he is treading water then fine but I cannot see how regression fits.

Collins was always an injury retread. I think most of the ire towards him is because of his 2 year deal. I think that has more to do with the salary floor than what the Spurs think of him relative to the league though. Now he is hurt and sucking again. Oh noes!

KJ is an interesting situation. He has kept his role as primary scorer but with the bench unit. Collins has been dog but Barlow has been a pleasant perimeter defensive surprise and the backcourt of Osman and Wesley is starting to mesh better as a flowing offense. KJ has been a part of that unit progression. When he comes in with the closers he is a wallflower true and overall regression but it is not all bad. He has really impressed me with his professional effort.

Vassell at this point is what he is and looks to be 17 ppg and not much else. He is likely treading on or around that plateau through age 30.

Wemby, Sochan, Wesley, Osman, Barlow, and Jones all have gotten better. I would like to throw Bassey in there too but IR/SSS.

At the end of the day the roster is talent poor and you can only polish so much.

[scott]

It's a team with bottom of the barrel talent outside of Wemby running outdated schemes. They should be way farther along than what they're showing now even with the Wemby tank and this year's "tank."

There are definitely real questions on whether a pretty substandard GM can build a playoff team, let alone contender, around a generational talent. This upcoming draft is huge and so will the coaching decision looming in a year or two.

This is my biggest concern. We have a GM and a Coach (to whom the GM reports) that believe they are the smartest guys in the room. I'm fully prepared for us to get "cute" this offseason, and not in a good way.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is my biggest concern. We have a GM and a Coach (to whom the GM reports) that believe they are the smartest guys in the room. I'm fully prepared for us to get "cute" this offseason, and not in a good way.

You also think most of the reporters are mouthbreathing idiots too right?

[scott]

You also think most of the reporters are mouthbreathing idiots too right?

I think the local media that covers the Spurs are too afraid or too inappropriately reverent of Pop to be critical of him.

[Spurminator]

They've been more watchable lately and played some pretty close games against teams that would have blown them out earlier in the year. But last night was definitely a pile of hot garbage. We've still got players getting significant minutes who wouldn't see the floor on other teams, and we have a coaching staff who still seems to be more interested in creating teachable moments than creating a winning culture any time soon.

I think Wemby is probably more patient than some people's concerns. I don't see him getting as frustrated with losing as other budding NBA stars might (insofar as demanding a trade or anything like that.) I think he realizes that he is still a work in progress as well. So I'm not really worried about Wemby except that for his development I'd like to see him playing in more compe ive situations next year, including (hopefully) a Playoff race.

[scott]

Wemby is a remarkably mature young man (or so it appears from everything we get to see). I think he is communicating quite clearly his frustrations (the comment about MJ getting 5blk/5stl games in wins versus losses stands out) while doing so in a mature, professional way. None of us can never truly know, but I think Wemby truly wants this to be where he spends his entire career and will be more patient than some on this board think, but I also think he'll work (in whatever way he needs to) to push the team to make changes... which is good. We need a force like that driving accountability.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think the local media that covers the Spurs are too afraid or too inappropriately reverent of Pop to be critical of him.

National reporters generally don't criticize him either.

[jjspur]

Other than Wemby and Vassell, all the rest of the spurs are pretty much backups. Think about it, Champ would be a 10th, 11th man at best on any other team. keldon while a starter for most of his career is now basically a backup on a bad team (demotion). Trey Jones is a backup playing a starting role as well. On almost any other team Sochan would be coming off the bench. Branham and Wesley play as well as their drafted position, which isn't all that great. One of them may be gone next year. Many of the rest might not even be on an NBA roster.

All in all, many teams have wiped the floor with these spurs. That's what happens when you pit real starters and all stars against our team. Granted on any given game any team can win, but when the coach doesn't put the best team forward every game and experiments half the season away, that isn't a recipe for winning. We tanked badly last year for Wemby and it paid off. This year we are just worse with basically the same team pus Wemby, logically we should have been been at least a little bit better, not heading into the worse season ever in franchise history.

Hopefully someone in the front office wakes up and actually tries to make the team better sooner rather than five years from now. It's painfully obvious that we don't have a whole lot of talent, but its more obvious that the front office isn't doing much to improve the team either. Hoping for luck in the draft isn't the best strategy either. Sure it helps but not always, especially in a lower quality draft.

Something has to change hopefully sooner rather than later.

[mexicanjunior]

They have been unwatchable all year. The biggest waste of NBA league pass money in Spurs history.

[jermaine]

I feel you bro. This team is trash. An ro see the same lineups time after time. Barlow & Sidi should definitely be playing waaaaaay more mins.

[scott]

National reporters generally don't criticize him either.

Good point, and while we are starting to see more "What are the Spurs doing?" kind of questions (though not too much), the vibe is still that Pop is great and the Spurs will somehow someway eventually be good again. Anyone else with the results the Spurs have been putting on the board the last 5-years would be at the top of any "hot seat" ranking, but this four-days old article ranks two first-year coaches and one second-year coach as on the hot seat.

I'll be the first to show gra ude for Pop and the five-rings he's brought here (as a self-described former Sniffer), and firmly believe he is the greatest coach of all time... but the lack of accountability or criticism of the the FO in the entire post-Kawhi era is quite stunning. I get the feeling that we are just viewed as this cute small-market franchise with a rich past but who now exists as fodder for other teams or, worse, a farm team (my German football club, BVB, is a potential example of this, though they are consistently second best in that league and compete in Champions League every year). It kind of reminds me of Williams Racing in F1... there is no real criticism or accountability because no one cares about Williams Racing

[TD 21]

This is what happens when you have a narrow minded vision for what a player on your team should be because you're more concerned with assembling a bunch of choir boys than players with dynamic skill, physical or otherwise.

The bigots will blame Wright (despite him literally ranking as the second in command as the GM), but he's likely a red herring as a yes man doing the leg (dirty) work for Pop and Buford.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Good point, and while we are starting to see more "What are the Spurs doing?" kind of questions (though not too much), the vibe is still that Pop is great and the Spurs will somehow someway eventually be good again. Anyone else with the results the Spurs have been putting on the board the last 5-years would be at the top of any "hot seat" ranking, but this four-days old article ranks two first-year coaches and one second-year coach as on the hot seat.

I'll be the first to show gra ude for Pop and the five-rings he's brought here (as a self-described former Sniffer), and firmly believe he is the greatest coach of all time... but the lack of accountability or criticism of the the FO in the entire post-Kawhi era is quite stunning. I get the feeling that we are just viewed as this cute small-market franchise with a rich past but who now exists as fodder for other teams or, worse, a farm team (my German football club, BVB, is a potential example of this, though they are consistently second best in that league and compete in Champions League every year). It kind of reminds me of Williams Racing in F1... there is no real criticism or accountability because no one cares about Williams Racing

As for Pop and his performance this year I have one think I look at: is Wemby progressing into a top 5 NBA player. Given his performance compared to historic greats, it is looking fantastic.

When you go through the roster and look at where guys were drafted and how they are doing, it is not like the players are underperforming. They gutted the roster pretty famously the last few years.

Spurs went a different direction than they did with Robinson adding several vets but they also did not have two years to create the roster. Sure you can dispute closing lineups or benching a guy but that just seems to miss the point. The Spurs are not run by fools.

[TD 21]

As for Pop and his performance this year I have one think I look at: is Wemby progressing into a top 5 NBA player. Given his performance compared to historic greats, it is looking fantastic.

When you go through the roster and look at where guys were drafted and how they are doing, it is not like the players are underperforming. They gutted the roster pretty famously the last few years.

Spurs went a different direction than they did with Robinson adding several vets but they also did not have two years to create the roster. Sure you can dispute closing lineups or benching a guy but that just seems to miss the point. The Spurs are not run by fools.

Wembanyama was always going to be in the process of becoming the all-time great he's destined to become no matter who drafted him.

Worse, they're run by holier than thou types, who think they have proof of concept for their "program" because of the past, so they guzzle their own Kool-Aid by the gallon and are never held accountable from ownership to local media.

This is why the same flawed archetypes keep getting drafted and splurged on.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wembanyama was always going to be in the process of becoming the all-time great he's destined to become no matter who drafted him.

Worse, they're run by holier than thou types, who think they have proof of concept for their "program" because of the past, so they guzzle their own Kool-Aid by the gallon and are never held accountable from ownership to local media.

This is why the same flawed archetypes keep getting drafted and splurged on.

Yeah no coach has ruined a player and no prospect busts. You reek of posting with the choirboy nonsense and now this issue of relative status.

[TD 21]

Yeah no coach has ruined a player and no prospect busts. You reek of posting with the choirboy nonsense and now this issue of relative status.

All time prospects don't bust and coaching is highly overrated, genius.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

All time prospects don't bust and coaching is highly overrated, genius.

Popovich knows more about basketball than you.

[el contusione]

Just don't watch. No one's requiring you to watch.

Thanks tips! Lol

[John B]

My take, Spurs are still tanking to get that top 5 pick, and help squeeze TOR out of the top 6 pick for the FRP to convey this year, period. What’s with winning some meaningless W’s and get trounced in the play-in, and missing out on the possible two lottery picks? Spurs can potentially get Sarr/Risacher and Topic/PG. I expect the Spurs to really be busy in the off-season, targeting possible trades and/or free agents to complete the team. I don’t know about you guys, but I see the Spurs in a great position to load talents come off-season and those lottery picks would help. Patience.

[TD 21]

Popovich knows more about basketball than you.

At being a brainwashed sniffer to the point of giving credit to a coach for the early development of an all time prospect.

[RC_Drunkford]

if you want to change things, start by changing the head coach

[FuzzyLumpkins]

if you want to change things, start by changing the head coach

Sure but given Spurs ownership, it is 'old man yells at clouds.'

[scott]

As for Pop and his performance this year I have one think I look at: is Wemby progressing into a top 5 NBA player. Given his performance compared to historic greats, it is looking fantastic.

When you go through the roster and look at where guys were drafted and how they are doing, it is not like the players are underperforming. They gutted the roster pretty famously the last few years.

Spurs went a different direction than they did with Robinson adding several vets but they also did not have two years to create the roster. Sure you can dispute closing lineups or benching a guy but that just seems to miss the point. The Spurs are not run by fools.

5 years straight of no playoffs, longest streak in franchise history, and 7 years of progressively getting worse. Can you name any other coach or front office in professional sports that would be granted such leeway? Not even his modern contemporary, Bill Belichick, was given as long a rope. Having lived in MA for awhile, as insufferable as Boston sports fans and media are, they do expect better and drive accountability.

What have this FO/Coach done in the last 7 years, beside luck into drafting Wemby, to give you confidence that they will turn this around? I'd love nothing more for that to be the case, by no means am I a Pop-hater who wants to see him lose. I'd love for him to go past 1500 wins and add a few more chips to his resume to close the door on any GOAT questions from here until forever.

I didn't say they were fools - but I do think they appear to have bought into their own hubris at time. This is reinforced by Pop's snarkiness whenever faced with any kind of question that challenges him - he responds by trying to make the person asking seem stupid or inferior rather than understanding that facing challenging questions is the cost of leadership. For as critical he is of certain political leaders, he ironically demonstrates a lot of the same fundamental character flaws as seen in them when it comes to facing accountability. Only a handful of privileged individuals in this world get to post prolonged substandard results and are empowered to simply respond with "be patient" rather to be held to account.

With that said, I admittedly am dealing with imperfect information. Maybe Pop has some 400-slide PowerPoint Deck he and Wright have run ownership through and everyone is fully on board. Or maybe Holt Jr. and RC have had stern conversations with Pop and Wright about the basketball product. Maybe... or maybe they aren't the right people leading the next era of Spurs basketball.