This team is unwatchable right now - Sorry for the rant

[baseline bum]

Of all this, I'm reminded that the FO decided to reward all the season ticket holders who hung in with them to 20-25% raise in prices. We all know they are not going anywhere this season, but losing games in the last few minutes gets old. I'm in a quandary about who is staying. If our starting five remains the same so will our record. Perfect world if we acquire a PG and SF that's a step in the right direction. If they are both found in the draft we have a another season of learning the ropes. If we get a veteran PG maybe we pick up the pace next season.

Of course they were going to go up getting Wemby vs last year when they had nobody. And they'll keep going up as the team gets better. Only thing they won't ever do is go down.

[MannyIsGod]

You seem to struggle with the idea of generally.

You are a Spurs fan, which is fine, but its clear you generally don't consume a lot of NBA content outside of stuff that is Spurs related. You have a very bad grasp on what goes on re: the NBA outside of direct Spurs related media. Criticism of Pop isn't a rare thing right now. It is VERY wide spread. It is to the point that I can't think of a single NBA podcast that I listen to that has not criticized Pop. The Wemby spotlight has been good for many reasons, but people are also now watching the Spurs who haven't in years and seeing ridiculous decisions and the reaction is there.

tis fine that you don't know this, but Jesus ing Christ you really should tone down the snark on that is so easy to demonstrate you incorrect. There's like 3 or 4 of you who not only say stupid incorrect because you're talking out of your ass but then decide to act like the other person is a fool. Very Trumpy of you, honestly.

[MannyIsGod]

RE: OP, the team is pretty watchable when Wemby is in, honestly. Tune in and get to see crazy almost every game. My personal enjoyment craters at the 6 minute mark of the 1q when I see Collins come to the scorers table, but as I frequently watch the game a bit delayed on the DVR, I've just started to fast forward through those parts of the game. This is not the most enjoyable Spurs season ever, but its a million times more watchable than last year. Right now its enjoyable to watch certain players, namely Devin, Wesley, and to an extent Sochan, because they're showing improvement from the early season as well.

On Pop coaching up Wemby, I don't see it. It was clear that Pop hindered Wemby for a good 2-3 months of this season with his lineup choices and by also refusing to coach the team. We've finally seen glimpses of Pop showing some tough love to players including Wemby but honestly this is something that should have happened earlier. I don't think Pop in any way has ruined Wemby but its pretty hard to make a case that decisions that Pop has made have been a reason behind Wemby's improvement. The reporting on the kid for years has been that he was incredibly mature. He's a 20 year old that goes to be at 9pm and plays Chess. He cares an insane amount about winning over everything else. This is just who Wemby is and I'm not about to give Pop credit for that. I just can't fathom what people are giving Pop credit for here. Wemby is just a great ing player.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are a Spurs fan, which is fine, but its clear you generally don't consume a lot of NBA content outside of stuff that is Spurs related. You have a very bad grasp on what goes on re: the NBA outside of direct Spurs related media. Criticism of Pop isn't a rare thing right now. It is VERY wide spread. It is to the point that I can't think of a single NBA podcast that I listen to that has not criticized Pop. The Wemby spotlight has been good for many reasons, but people are also now watching the Spurs who haven't in years and seeing ridiculous decisions and the reaction is there.

tis fine that you don't know this, but Jesus ing Christ you really should tone down the snark on that is so easy to demonstrate you incorrect. There's like 3 or 4 of you who not only say stupid incorrect because you're talking out of your ass but then decide to act like the other person is a fool. Very Trumpy of you, honestly.

You're wrong about my consumption. Any more assumptions about me you want to base your entire argument on? I do like how you are desperate for expertise.

I said, generally. Your following deduction clearly did not consider that. You have since dropped that to whine about something else. It was stupid. Deal with it.

[baseline bum]

RE: OP, the team is pretty watchable when Wemby is in, honestly. Tune in and get to see crazy almost every game. My personal enjoyment craters at the 6 minute mark of the 1q when I see Collins come to the scorers table, but as I frequently watch the game a bit delayed on the DVR, I've just started to fast forward through those parts of the game. This is not the most enjoyable Spurs season ever, but its a million times more watchable than last year. Right now its enjoyable to watch certain players, namely Devin, Wesley, and to an extent Sochan, because they're showing improvement from the early season as well.

On Pop coaching up Wemby, I don't see it. It was clear that Pop hindered Wemby for a good 2-3 months of this season with his lineup choices and by also refusing to coach the team. We've finally seen glimpses of Pop showing some tough love to players including Wemby but honestly this is something that should have happened earlier. I don't think Pop in any way has ruined Wemby but its pretty hard to make a case that decisions that Pop has made have been a reason behind Wemby's improvement. The reporting on the kid for years has been that he was incredibly mature. He's a 20 year old that goes to be at 9pm and plays Chess. He cares an insane amount about winning over everything else. This is just who Wemby is and I'm not about to give Pop credit for that. I just can't fathom what people are giving Pop credit for here. Wemby is just a great ing player.

As soon as I see Collins walk to the scorer's table I know it's time to use the bathroom, take the dog out, make a sandwich, etc. When Barlow gets the backup minutes I still like to watch, but Collins just seems a lost cause these days.

[MannyIsGod]

You're wrong about my consumption. Any more assumptions about me you want to base your entire argument on? I do like how you are desperate for expertise.

I said, generally. Your following deduction clearly did not consider that. You have since dropped that to whine about something else. It was stupid. Deal with it.

K so generally don't criticize is correct when the majority of NBA media is criticizing? You're right though, I did assume that you were wrong because you didn't consume media. Maybe you do and you're just a ing moron. Definitely my bad on that one.

[MannyIsGod]

As soon as I see Collins walk to the scorer's table I know it's time to use the bathroom, take the dog out, make a sandwich, etc. When Barlow gets the backup minutes I still like to watch, but Collins just seems a lost cause these days.

Its Collins and Branham that I really just can't watch right now. You're right though, I don't mind watching when Wemby is on the bench if its Barlow who comes in.

[scott]

If Bassey didn't get hurt playing in a meaningless G-League game (for the second straight year), I would have gotten some enjoyment out of watching him get minutes as well. I'm not giving up hope on my fellow Yellow Jacket.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

K so generally don't criticize is correct men the majority of NBA media is criticizing is correct to you? You're right though, I did assume that you were wrong because you didn't consume media. Maybe you do and you're just a ing moron. Definitely my bad on that one.

Well you have not established your expertise. if you want to trot out Perkins, Bayless, et al and have that discussion we can but sorry MIG you are no expert on sports media opinions.

Nevermind the actual argument you are jumping in the middle of and the timeframes that were being discussed.

You just want to be lazy and considered an expert. That actually is Trumpian.

[MannyIsGod]

Well you have not established your expertise. if you want to trot out Perkins, Bayless, et al and have that discussion we can but sorry MIG you are no expert on sports media opinions.

Nevermind the actual argument you are jumping in the middle of and the timeframes that were being discussed.

You just want to be lazy and considered an expert. That actually is Trumpian.

Who the listens to Bayless or Perkins? I'm talking about people like Nate Duncan, Hollinger, or if you want to go the more ESPNish route, Lowe and Simmons. But ing Bayless? LOL. Telling on yourself.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Who the listens to Bayless or Perkins? I'm talking about people like Nate Duncan, Hollinger, or if you want to go the more ESPNish route, Lowe and Simmons. But ing Bayless? LOL. Telling on yourself.

here you are struggling with the idea of mutual exclusivity and with the idea of generally once again. Just because I am aware of one thing does not mean I am not aware of the other. Further, since we are discussing the media generally and not your hipster ideas of what is important that was particularly stupid.

you going to post the general criticism or no?

[manufan10]

I've watched almost every game, and it's definitely been a struggle. This team is the polar opposite of the beautiful game. I've never seen a team turn the ball over on basic outlet passes as many times as this team does. They also had a stretch where they were getting 3 or more shot clock violations per game. In this day and age that seems unfathomable. They've finally made games at least somewhat compe ive, but still hard to watch.

[vy65]

You are a Spurs fan, which is fine, but its clear you generally don't consume a lot of NBA content outside of stuff that is Spurs related. You have a very bad grasp on what goes on re: the NBA outside of direct Spurs related media. Criticism of Pop isn't a rare thing right now. It is VERY wide spread. It is to the point that I can't think of a single NBA podcast that I listen to that has not criticized Pop. The Wemby spotlight has been good for many reasons, but people are also now watching the Spurs who haven't in years and seeing ridiculous decisions and the reaction is there.

tis fine that you don't know this, but Jesus ing Christ you really should tone down the snark on that is so easy to demonstrate you incorrect. There's like 3 or 4 of you who not only say stupid incorrect because you're talking out of your ass but then decide to act like the other person is a fool. Very Trumpy of you, honestly.

Bill Simmons - say what you will about him, but he may have the largest market share of NBA commentary - ing hates Pop and mercilessly ridicules him for the Point Sochan experiment. He refuses to watch Spurs games and is voting Chet ROY as a protest of Pop's decision-making. Other commentators, e.g., Tim Legler, have done the same.

[poopbox]

The team is watchable. Winning and being watchable don't have to be the same thing. I basically agree with the take that you can't expect a team that was torn down to the studs is going to turn things around in one year. You have to use selective cognition to hold the team to a higher standard than most other rebuilding clubs. Like the poster who said the Spurs have spent more time in the lottery than anyone else while ignoring that they've been 9-12 in those years and the blatant lie given that Detroit and Charlotte have been in the lottery since 2017 rather than the Spurs only entering that range in 2020.

A lot of things I've said before could be applied here, and I'm not gonna spend a lot time just repeating those. Just briefly: Wemby is playing well, the team is playing with him better, due to the choices they made in the off-season it's in the team's best interest to lose, Wemby's not going to leave for years, and him not wanting to lose games is not a sign of trouble but a sign of him being a compe or. The thing about an uncomfortable period of time is that it only seems short in retrospect. During that time, it's lose and grueling and not all that fun.

I agree with the idea that fans who are struggling to find enjoyment right now take a break from watching the team. That's not because they aren't "true fans" or whatever. It's because the Spurs are at a point where they aren't going to even be in a position to make big changes for a while. It's like if you were on a transatlantic voyage and and were complaining about how stupid it is to be using a ship. It's like whether you're right or wrong, you're already on the ship and won't get off it until the trip is complete. The Spurs are in a very good position for the choice they've seemingly made. They have one good lotto pick and another that seems likely. They a young gold-chip prospect who's justifying his hype. Their second-best player has added a lot to his game. Their non-natural picks seem to be lining up to have good value. The Collins extension was an obvious miss, but it's the only black mark on the team's near future.

We've gone over how teams can accelerate badly and how often they make that choice. I'm happy they haven't already done that. They've chosen a different approach, and it's way too soon to determine if that was a mistake. I think even if they chose to accelerate going forward, this year will have played an important role in facilitating that. That cost of what they've gained was worth the small price of wearing on some folks' patience.

I mean from an entertainment perspective it's watchable if you only want to dumb out and mindlessly watch basketball. From a basketball perspective of understanding strategy and game planning its absolutely unwatchable because we have the worst strategy, game planning, and execution in the league BY FAR.

People act like all we have to do is put more talent around Wemby and everything will be better ignoring that Pop is a coach now and all that additional talent is going to do is showcase how bad of a coach he is...which you are starting to hear murmurs about now if you listen to any basketball podcast.

Ultimately this team isn't really going to go anywhere until they get rid of the outdated fossil coach who doesn't seem to understand anything about modern basketball the same way the Patriots finally realized that they would never go anywhere with a coach who was running 3 tight end sets in an era of football where points are king and was literally hiring failed defensive coordinators to be his co offensive coordinator for his already physically limited quarterback, no matter how many rings he stood on the sideline and watched tom brady win.

Doesn't seem like The Holts got the balls for it like the Crafts did though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Bill Simmons - say what you will about him, but he may have the largest market share of NBA commentary - ing hates Pop and mercilessly ridicules him for the Point Sochan experiment. He refuses to watch Spurs games and is voting Chet ROY as a protest of Pop's decision-making. Other commentators, e.g., Tim Legler, have done the same.

He has hated the Spurs famously ever since we got Duncan. He owns it completely.

I have heard Legler and others talk about it and it was not so much a discussion of it as stupid to even try and more of this just is not working. Now what ultimately happened with Sochan at PG?

[vy65]

He has hated the Spurs famously ever since we got Duncan. He owns it completely.

I have heard Legler and others talk about it and it was not so much a discussion of it as stupid to even try and more of this just is not working. Now what ultimately happened with Sochan at PG?

So the guy with the biggest NBA-related media capture has always criticized the spurs - and - the national media "generally" doesn't criticize pop? Seriously, stop posting.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So the guy with the biggest NBA-related media capture has always criticized the spurs - and - the national media "generally" doesn't criticize pop? Seriously, stop posting.

yeah that is the only way to look at it.

another is that you picked 1 guy with a schtick and there are many more opinions out there to get an idea of hat is generally thought. moreso, he has been planning our demise since 1997. If he has the same tenor when we are winning O'Brien's then what difference does it make?

You guys are jumping into the middle of an argument. You should do better than fixate on a tree and act like you've done something.

[scott]

I've watched almost every game, and it's definitely been a struggle. This team is the polar opposite of the beautiful game. I've never seen a team turn the ball over on basic outlet passes as many times as this team does. They also had a stretch where they were getting 3 or more shot clock violations per game. In this day and age that seems unfathomable. They've finally made games at least somewhat compe ive, but still hard to watch.

Our inability to seemingly make basic inbound passes, not just this year but for several now, is the most mind-blowing thing to me. Which coach is responsible for this one thing?

[Chinook]

I mean from an entertainment perspective it's watchable if you only want to dumb out and mindlessly watch basketball. From a basketball perspective of understanding strategy and game planning its absolutely unwatchable because we have the worst strategy, game planning, and execution in the league BY FAR.

Pop isn't perfect and I'd say was horrible to start the year. But there are worse coaches in the league. I think we can all define what "watchable" means to us, but if you're going to say "Sure, it's entertaining but not watchable", it's going to be a bit award. The Spurs don't really seem to have much strategy nowadays, which is a product of having no playoff series for years and no vets. Pop's highest-level idea has been trying to put random players on the best opposing players and maybe doubling. He hasn't had to work out a long-term solution for a player since Jokic in 2019, and he's been trying to create the perimeter defenders he used to be able to rely on the Medium Three era.

People act like all we have to do is put more talent around Wemby and everything will be better ignoring that Pop is a coach now and all that additional talent is going to do is showcase how bad of a coach he is...which you are starting to hear murmurs about now if you listen to any basketball podcast.

Ultimately this team isn't really going to go anywhere until they get rid of the outdated fossil coach who doesn't seem to understand anything about modern basketball the same way the Patriots finally realized that they would never go anywhere with a coach who was running 3 tight end sets in an era of football where points are king and was literally hiring failed defensive coordinators to be his co offensive coordinator for his already physically limited quarterback, no matter how many rings he stood on the sideline and watched tom brady win.

I agree with the point about talent not being the only issue. scott can attest to me thinking it's more than just the supporting cast. Now, in terms of how bad Pop's schemes are, that's debatable. That guy who does defensive breakdowns hate drop coverage, for example, but it's actually pretty widely used. You can see that from the non-Spurs videos he posts. A lot of Wemby defensive highlights come from him in that coverage, and it's possible that scheme uses him the best because it allows him to protect the paint and play the ball-handler at the same time. The scheme struggles with a guy like Collins who is just straight-sucking right now. But I think it's helped Wemby's defensive numbers. In that regard, it might make sense to stick with that scheme and improve the other half of the defensive equation, which is how the on-ball defender plays their assignment. Back in the late Duncan era, the Spurs' smalls were great at helping Tim by playing the passing lanes, which prevented easy drop-offs to the roll-man. If they could improve that part and get smarter on help, I think drop coverage will still work.

The three-point defense has been awful forever, having been in the bottom half of the league in 3PT% allowed since 2018. That's bad enough to where you might have to change the coach to fix it. The Spurs pretty publicly called Keldon out for a bad rotation last game, so maybe there's legit movement on addressing that. With Wemby playing at center and more minutes, the team should change the way they defend the perimeter. I'm not surprised, though, that the Spurs haven't been good since they foolishly let their defensive core go away. Even if Pop stays, there's hope that they can acquire the players to address the problem.

Doesn't seem like The Holts got the balls for it like the Crafts did though.

I don't like Kraft, but the Holts could definitely be a problem to look out for going forward. I don't know that they're uber loyal to Pop or anything, but I do think they might not care too much about winning a le.

[scott]

The Spurs recent defensive performances definitely point to some coaching issues - I'd at least like to see a shakeup in our assistant coaching ranks. This team obviously isn't doing much to contribute to a high degree of progress (since we all generally acknowledge that outside of a few players, we aren't seeing the progress you'd hope for). What is Brett Brown contributing? Mitch Johnson seems like a great dude, but what is his contribution?

I've also noticed that the Spurs have one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league. Don't know what conclusions I draw from that, but it's an observation: https://nbacoaches.com/nba-assistant-coaches/

[MannyIsGod]

Pops contribution to Wemby improving in full display tonight. Not sure we have a single play to get this dude an easy look.

[poopbox]

The Spurs recent defensive performances definitely point to some coaching issues - I'd at least like to see a shakeup in our assistant coaching ranks. This team obviously isn't doing much to contribute to a high degree of progress (since we all generally acknowledge that outside of a few players, we aren't seeing the progress you'd hope for). What is Brett Brown contributing? Mitch Johnson seems like a great dude, but what is his contribution?

I've also noticed that the Spurs have one of the smallest coaching staffs in the league. Don't know what conclusions I draw from that, but it's an observation: https://nbacoaches.com/nba-assistant-coaches/

Who wants to be an assistant coach for a 72 year old man who every year his team gets worse and every year you don't know if he is going to be the coach or not

Only people trying to become assistant coaches or are bad assistant coaches would put themselves in that position

Or failed head coaches that players only have bad things to say about like Brent Brown

[NASpurs]

Another turd of a game.

people justifying this ing garbage of a team

[offset formation]

lol well according to the old man, we don’t know what we’re talking about if we criticize his coaching. His crappy record with a generational talent doesn’t already “say it all.”

Everyone here knows I haven't been shy to criticize Pop over the last 3 or so years, but it's probably not fair to criticize him on our crappy record as much as say getting WORSE defensively with guys already in your system when Wembanyama is not on the floor. To me thats where a perfectly reasonable and fair critique rests on assessing Pop and Wright to a lesser extent. Are our guys lacking the physical or mental ability to improve in at least their 2nd if not 4th or 5th year in the system, or is Pop simply not getting improvements from them for whatever reason anymore? That's where the juice is squeezed.

[itzsoweezee]

This team hasn’t even slightly improved since the start of the season