Let's celebrate Sochan's billion tonight

[spurraider21]

those are roy hibbert numbers

[spurraider21]

Sochan's future is as a wing defender who is doesn't create events, can't score, and will be used too much by Pop.

He's basically on his way to be the next Ime Udoka, King of the scrubs who was soooo tough because of one story about a third world gym shoving match that became a tall tale of Ime the hero but when he got put on anyone good he was wrecked

are we sure he's a wing defender?

[spurraider21]

In their second years:
- Spurstalk legend and 1st ballot HoFer Alperen Sengun had 0 pts, 2 PF, 1 Tov, 0 blk, 1 stl, 2 asst and 9 rebounds for a 24 pt loss over 22 minutes vs. Boson., a 4 pt, 3 foul, 3 tov, 0 blk, 1 stl, 3 asst 7 reb game for 7 pt loss vs. GSW.
- Giannis had 4 games with a negative GameScore, same as Jeremy Sochan (so far). 18 games with a Game Score of 15 higher, while Sochan have 8 (so far). Not saying Sochan will be anything close to Sochan, but shockingly, raw players improve, and we all agree Sochan is raw.

Sochan has been playing like garbage the last couple of games, but I love to see the same people come in here and talk after these games, but stay absolutely silent when he had a few good games. Over the course of the year, he is averaging 11.2 pts, 6.1 rebounds, 3.5 assists with a 10.9 PER. He can't shoot for but these are things that can be worked on. Blake Wesley went from shooting 30% from 2 last year to a 60% 2 pt shooter this year. Small samples sizes and all, but they can work on these things.

Compared to his draft class, he is ranking #9 in scoring, #8 in rebounds, #5 in assists and #7 in minutes. His shooting is shockingly bad (#18 in FG%, #33 in 3%, #30 in FT%) and his advanced stats are the bottom of the pile (playing for a horrible team does that), but his raw counting stats are respectable, and pretty much where he should stand in his draft range. It actually compares to players who are much hyped like Keegan Murray, Jabari Smith, Jaden Ivey, Mathurin, Sharpe, and much better than players like Dyson Dnaiels, Johnny Davis, Ousame Dieng. Of all the players drafted after Sochan, Jalen Williams, Walker Kessler, and Jalen Duren were the only ones who were clearly better, with maybe Tari Eason as a comparable player.

I agree he is incredibly inconsistent, have many areas he can work on, and have some really ghastly games, but I just do not understand the hate.

being miserable from an efficiency/impact/advanced stat perspective but piling on respectable raw numbers isn't impressive. as you said, he's #7 in minutes though not because he's fought for them, but because he's on a team where the best PF they've had during his 2 seasons has been KBD

[wildbill2u]

It's time to forget about the pick being one of the worst by our FO in a long time. Every FO is going to make one of these picks that don't necessarily work out as hoped. In this case they took a kid without enough exposure in college to make a really good guestimate as to his future skills. No point in hating on the kid, it was the FO and coaching/scouting staff that put him into the situation. I just wish the coaches would play someone else; at least Mamu has some BB IQ and works hard to put it to use on every play.

[rascal]

It's time to forget about the pick being one of the worst by our FO in a long time. Every FO is going to make one of these picks that don't necessarily work out as hoped. In this case they took a kid without enough exposure in college to make a really good guestimate as to his future skills. No point in hating on the kid, it was the FO and coaching/scouting staff that put him into the situation. I just wish the coaches would play someone else; at least Mamu has some BB IQ and works hard to put it to use on every play.

There is no one better to play on the current roster but the idea Sochan is locked in as the future starter at PF should be dropped
and if the opportunity comes to draft another PF with more upside the spurs need to not think they shouldn't because they are set with Sochan as their PF.

[scott]

There is no one better to play on the current roster but the idea Sochan is locked in as the future starter at PF should be dropped
and if the opportunity comes to draft another PF with more upside the spurs need to not think they shouldn't because they are set with Sochan as their PF.

We should be saying this about most of the roster. The current players on the team outside of Wemby are only a part of "the future" until an upgrade is found. I don't have any of these guys locked in for anything, none of them are good enough for that (not even Vassell).

[RC_Drunkford]

I get that he‘s been terrible lately, but damn can we at least wait and see what he shows in year 3? That‘s where rookies usually make a leap

[ambchang]

That's all you could find ... no offense but that even further proves how bad a night Sochan had...with 2 ass and 9 rbs or 3 ass and 7rbs, at least Segun was finding ways to try and help his team in some fashion, mostly grabbing rbds. and passing a little... Sochan has 1 ass and... that's it.

Point was everyone has bad games. And good move removing everything else.

[Pauleta14]

Comparing raw stats without context is just stupid as confuding correlation and causation.

You didn't stop yourself a sec before using Giannis's 2nd season??

[poopbox]

In their second years:
- Spurstalk legend and 1st ballot HoFer Alperen Sengun had 0 pts, 2 PF, 1 Tov, 0 blk, 1 stl, 2 asst and 9 rebounds for a 24 pt loss over 22 minutes vs. Boson., a 4 pt, 3 foul, 3 tov, 0 blk, 1 stl, 3 asst 7 reb game for 7 pt loss vs. GSW.
- Giannis had 4 games with a negative GameScore, same as Jeremy Sochan (so far). 18 games with a Game Score of 15 higher, while Sochan have 8 (so far). Not saying Sochan will be anything close to Sochan, but shockingly, raw players improve, and we all agree Sochan is raw.

Sochan has been playing like garbage the last couple of games, but I love to see the same people come in here and talk after these games, but stay absolutely silent when he had a few good games. Over the course of the year, he is averaging 11.2 pts, 6.1 rebounds, 3.5 assists with a 10.9 PER. He can't shoot for but these are things that can be worked on. Blake Wesley went from shooting 30% from 2 last year to a 60% 2 pt shooter this year. Small samples sizes and all, but they can work on these things.

Compared to his draft class, he is ranking #9 in scoring, #8 in rebounds, #5 in assists and #7 in minutes. His shooting is shockingly bad (#18 in FG%, #33 in 3%, #30 in FT%) and his advanced stats are the bottom of the pile (playing for a horrible team does that), but his raw counting stats are respectable, and pretty much where he should stand in his draft range. It actually compares to players who are much hyped like Keegan Murray, Jabari Smith, Jaden Ivey, Mathurin, Sharpe, and much better than players like Dyson Dnaiels, Johnny Davis, Ousame Dieng. Of all the players drafted after Sochan, Jalen Williams, Walker Kessler, and Jalen Duren were the only ones who were clearly better, with maybe Tari Eason as a comparable player.

I agree he is incredibly inconsistent, have many areas he can work on, and have some really ghastly games, but I just do not understand the hate.

Did you compare Sengun and Giannis to Sochan

Sengun gets 20 and 10 more in a week than Sochan gets in a month

You don't understand why people are not happy with the second highest drafted player we have had on this team in over 20 years scoring 0 and then 1 point

[Splits]

I was going to gloss him Fourchan, but nig can't even put up 4 in any category other than minutes.

[TD 21]

Most overrated Spurs prospect I can remember. Has no business being handed a starting/closing role next season or being considered a long term keeper currently . . .

Andy Bailey occasionally aggregates players based on the average score of 8 "catch all" metrics and in the latest update Sochan is 284th out of 332 qualifiers (minimum 400 minutes).

I get that he's only in his second season, is 20 and started the season playing out of position, but all the evidence to this point indicates a player somewhere between fringe rotation and replacement level.

[ambchang]

being miserable from an efficiency/impact/advanced stat perspective but piling on respectable raw numbers isn't impressive. as you said, he's #7 in minutes though not because he's fought for them, but because he's on a team where the best PF they've had during his 2 seasons has been KBD

Not saying he's being impressive, but he is trending his draft position. I am just not sure what people expect of Sochan.

It's time to forget about the pick being one of the worst by our FO in a long time. Every FO is going to make one of these picks that don't necessarily work out as hoped. In this case they took a kid without enough exposure in college to make a really good guestimate as to his future skills. No point in hating on the kid, it was the FO and coaching/scouting staff that put him into the situation. I just wish the coaches would play someone else; at least Mamu has some BB IQ and works hard to put it to use on every play.

Case in point. Worst by our FO? Like how? There were three players drafted after Sochan that was better than him, and 3 or 4 before him that is comparable. Primo is by far the worst.

[ambchang]

Comparing raw stats without context is just stupid as confuding correlation and causation.

You didn't stop yourself a sec before using Giannis's 2nd season??

What does that have to do with correlation or causation?

[ambchang]

Did you compare Sengun and Giannis to Sochan

Sengun gets 20 and 10 more in a week than Sochan gets in a month

You don't understand why people are not happy with the second highest drafted player we have had on this team in over 20 years scoring 0 and then 1 point

This can help you: https://www.amazon.ca/Conquer-Alphab...zcF9hdGY&psc=1

[itzsoweezee]

In their second years:
- Spurstalk legend and 1st ballot HoFer Alperen Sengun had 0 pts, 2 PF, 1 Tov, 0 blk, 1 stl, 2 asst and 9 rebounds for a 24 pt loss over 22 minutes vs. Boson., a 4 pt, 3 foul, 3 tov, 0 blk, 1 stl, 3 asst 7 reb game for 7 pt loss vs. GSW.
- Giannis had 4 games with a negative GameScore, same as Jeremy Sochan (so far). 18 games with a Game Score of 15 higher, while Sochan have 8 (so far). Not saying Sochan will be anything close to Sochan, but shockingly, raw players improve, and we all agree Sochan is raw.

Sochan has been playing like garbage the last couple of games, but I love to see the same people come in here and talk after these games, but stay absolutely silent when he had a few good games. Over the course of the year, he is averaging 11.2 pts, 6.1 rebounds, 3.5 assists with a 10.9 PER. He can't shoot for but these are things that can be worked on. Blake Wesley went from shooting 30% from 2 last year to a 60% 2 pt shooter this year. Small samples sizes and all, but they can work on these things.

Compared to his draft class, he is ranking #9 in scoring, #8 in rebounds, #5 in assists and #7 in minutes. His shooting is shockingly bad (#18 in FG%, #33 in 3%, #30 in FT%) and his advanced stats are the bottom of the pile (playing for a horrible team does that), but his raw counting stats are respectable, and pretty much where he should stand in his draft range. It actually compares to players who are much hyped like Keegan Murray, Jabari Smith, Jaden Ivey, Mathurin, Sharpe, and much better than players like Dyson Dnaiels, Johnny Davis, Ousame Dieng. Of all the players drafted after Sochan, Jalen Williams, Walker Kessler, and Jalen Duren were the only ones who were clearly better, with maybe Tari Eason as a comparable player.

I agree he is incredibly inconsistent, have many areas he can work on, and have some really ghastly games, but I just do not understand the hate.

The problem isn’t just that he can’t shoot, it’s that he can’t dribble or pass either.

I don’t want give up on him, but learning to shoot (which is far from a certainty) isn’t nearly enough.

[ambchang]

The problem isn’t just that he can’t shoot, it’s that he can’t dribble or pass either.

I don’t want give up on him, but learning to shoot (which is far from a certainty) isn’t nearly enough.

What is this based on? For a PF, he is quite a good ball-handler and passer. Not a world beater, but definitely not someone who should be classified as "can't dribble or pass". He has a higher Ast% and comparable TOV% as John Collins. Slightly better AST% and slightly worse TOV% as Evan Mobley. His AST% is actually comparable to Mikal Bridges. What do you guys want?

[itzsoweezee]

What is this based on? For a PF, he is quite a good ball-handler and passer. Not a world beater, but definitely not someone who should be classified as "can't dribble or pass". He has a higher Ast% and comparable TOV% as John Collins. Slightly better AST% and slightly worse TOV% as Evan Mobley. His AST% is actually comparable to Mikal Bridges. What do you guys want?

Just watch the games, bro. It’s pretty clear he doesn’t have fundamental skills. Everything he does on the offensive end appears to require him to think about it before he does it. Nothing comes natural to him on the offensive end.

Also, you can’t just cherry pick stats without any context. The guys you named are much better than Sochan at other skills compared to him. So the fact that Sochan has a comparable ast% to another power forward is pretty meaningless. The point is, he doesn’t have NBA level quality at dribbling, passing, and shooting. If he was even really good at one of those things, I’d be a lot more optimistic about his future.

[Pauleta14]

What does that have to do with correlation or causation?

?? self explanatory no?

For the same reason stats alone will never teach you as much as watching the game or at best won’t give u the real picture…

[Pauleta14]

What is this based on? For a PF, he is quite a good ball-handler and passer. Not a world beater, but definitely not someone who should be classified as "can't dribble or pass". He has a higher Ast% and comparable TOV% as John Collins. Slightly better AST% and slightly worse TOV% as Evan Mobley. His AST% is actually comparable to Mikal Bridges. What do you guys want?

what?!?

Sochan is neither a good passer or ball handler.

he’s a point A to B type of player, reacts more than he anticipates with very basic passing and dribbling abilities.

let’s hope he gets better but as of now his main/only strength are his motor, rim agression and defensive versatility.

[ambchang]

Just watch the games, bro. It’s pretty clear he doesn’t have fundamental skills. Everything he does on the offensive end appears to require him to think about it before he does it. Nothing comes natural to him on the offensive end.

Also, you can’t just cherry pick stats without any context. The guys you named are much better than Sochan at other skills compared to him. So the fact that Sochan has a comparable ast% to another power forward is pretty meaningless. The point is, he doesn’t have NBA level quality at dribbling, passing, and shooting. If he was even really good at one of those things, I’d be a lot more optimistic about his future.

So the numbers are wrong. You are right. Got it.

?? self explanatory no?

oft the same reason stats alone will never teach you as much as watching the game or at best won’t give u the real picture…

Ok. So sochan just happened to have stats similar to other players drafted around him despite him sucking significantly more than them because you watched the game.

And no, this has nothing to do with correlation or causation. Sochan got those traditional stats because he got those stats. Not because of correlation or causation.

[Pauleta14]

Ok. So sochan just happened to have stats similar to other players drafted around him despite him sucking significantly more than them because you watched the game.

And no, this has nothing to do with correlation or causation. Sochan got those traditional stats because he got those stats. Not because of correlation or causation.

Because stats don’t tel the story mate… are you for real?

Have u learned how to read and use stats??

ok let me give u an ex, you probably found some passing stats from Sochan looking decent or even good so you’re using that as an argument vs anyone who dare say Sochan sucks at passing…

thing is the passes we are all talking about and that matter aren’t the perimeter ones or the 1st in transition, it’s the pick and roll ones, the lobs when Victor is open ones… the ones that never or rarely happen basically.

your stats won’t highlight those and ppl like you keep thinking numbers tells the whole story will keep being stubborn amd missing the point.

please give me Vassell and Sochan assists average to Wemby/game just to have a laugh…

[ambchang]

what?!?

Sochan is neither a good passer or ball handler.

he’s a point A to B type of player, reacts more than he anticipates with very basic passing and dribbling abilities.

let’s hope he gets better but as of now his main/only strength are his motor, rim agression and defensive versatility.

But the point is that he can’t dribble or pass. That’s clearly not the case. Because somebody who cannot dribble or pass would have a much lower ast% and higher TOV-%, no?

[Pauleta14]

But the point is that he can’t dribble or pass. That’s clearly not the case. Because somebody who cannot dribble or pass would have a much lower ast% and higher TOV-%, no?

ok maybe it’s a misunderstanding…

we’re all talking about passes that matter, the ones that complement Wemby, he has no trouble finding them but it’s never coming back to him.
Imo Sochan like Vassell don’t pass much not bc they don’t like Wemby or bs like that but bc they don’t feel confident about what seems an easy pass
at some point it means a real lack of skill/fundamentals

i mean they’ve been training with Victor since august and okayed +50 games but still struggle to make the basic p&r pass or lob

I like many things about Sochan and agree he’s clearly worth the work and patience but he has massive limitations for a pro BB player. As much technique than BBIQ. Let’s not lie to ourselves just bc he’s cool

[itzsoweezee]

So the numbers are wrong. You are right. Got it.



Ok. So sochan just happened to have stats similar to other players drafted around him despite him sucking significantly more than them because you watched the game.

And no, this has nothing to do with correlation or causation. Sochan got those traditional stats because he got those stats. Not because of correlation or causation.

The problem isn’t the numbers, the problem is the numbers don’t say what you assert they say. You said, this better player than Sochan has a comparable assist % to Sochan, therefore Sochan is a good passer. Do you not see the obvious failing in your logic? I’ll spell it out for you: both of them are not good passers.

The problem with Sochan is, not only is he not a good passer, here’s not a good shooter, and he can’t handle the ball, as the horrible earlier season experiment made crystal clear.