Windhorst: Wembanyama Not Thrilled With Where Spurs Are; Doesn't Think Spurs Can Get Away With Slow Build

[RC_Drunkford]

Not true:



Basically, The Mavs panicked, went for the established star instead of having patience and are now stucked with an older, worst, more expensive player.



Yeah, basically the age most great players start to contend.

if you think Wemby will wait that long to contend, while the Spurs bring in 9 rookies within 4 years to find his sidekick good luck

[Chinook]

Not true:



Basically, The Mavs panicked, went for the established star instead of having patience and are now stucked with an older, worst, more expensive player.



Yeah, basically the age most great players start to contend.

Dallas is the best-case scenario for a team that lets their panic over a young star leaving dominate their front-office decisions. After spending basically every asset they could, they have a decent roster. But that roster is not so good that people would blame Luka for wanting to walk away even though his team gave him what he wanted and let him do whatever he wanted to do on the court. That's the best case. The worst is being like the Cavs during Lebron's first stint and basically have a -tier roster around their GOAT candidate which immediately went to after he left despite the owner's vow to win now.

People never seem to look at what's worked historically and what hasn't worked. The Spurs are not the first team in this position, and how things tend to go from here is pretty straight-forward.

[baseline bum]

Hawks still will never self tank by trading away their stars without getting at least some of their picks over the next few years back. That means that we don't have compe ion because we have to be dealt with first.

I get the carpe diem impulse, but I hope the Spurs are better negotiators than the lot around here.

Are you thinking you can get Young for the 25 ATL pick, ripping up the 26 swap, and change (say Keldon+Collins for salary, the Charlotte fake first, and maybe the protected CHI pick)? That would be awesome but ATL would probably counter with wondering if the Spurs are serious that they'd value three picks around #10 and change over Trae.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

nah man just look at the last 6 years. Aside from Wemby we had two 19th picks, the 29th pick, the 11th, 12th, 9th, 20th and 25th pick and ended up with Lonnie Walker, Luka Samanic, Keldon Johnson, Devin Vassell, Jeremy Sochan, Malaki Branham, Blake Wesley and big Primo. All of them are better than Trae Young

That is great and all but Young was drafted 5th. I forget exactly where but there is a significant increase in success after 8 and again at 4 or something like that. But if you want to pretend that the Spurs have a bad success rate picking 10+ then have fun.

[DAF86]

I'm not even a big Young fan but acting like hitting on a player that is as good as Young being easy or likely is just a crazy thing to expect. The Spurs are unlikely to get a player with their draft picks that is as good as Young is. That should be pretty ing obvious. All NBA Guards are hard to come by.

Off the top of my head, players drafted in the past few years that are or project to be as good or better than Young: Wemby, Chet, Banchero, Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Cade, Edwards, Barnes, Wagner, J-Williams, Sengun. And I got tired of thinking.

Now, most of you might think many of these guys are not as good as Young but to me they are. A guy like Franz Wagner might not be seen as an all-star but I would rather have him over Young if I'm trying to build a championship level team. Young is kinda like Westbrook to me, a guy that will put up numbers but that needs a lot of things to be accomodated around him to try and build a contender with him on the team. Just too flawed of a player.

[baseline bum]

Off the top of my head, players drafted in the past few years that are or project to be as good or better than Young: Wemby (#1), Chet (#2), Banchero (#1), Haliburton (#12), Jalen Brunson (#33), Cade (#1), Edwards (#1), Barnes (#4), Wagner (#8), J-Williams (#12), Sengun (#16). And I got tired of thinking.

So four of them available at where the Atlanta picks would likely convey, seven of them ahead (and five of them #1 or #2).

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Are you thinking you can get Young for the 25 ATL pick, ripping up the 26 swap, and change (say Keldon+Collins for salary, the Charlotte fake first, and maybe the protected CHI pick)? That would be awesome but ALT would probably counter with wondering if the Spurs are serious that they'd value three picks around #10 and change over Trae.

You're inserting your wonder for the Hawks which is fun but is not representative. Frankly when you start talking about ideas of worth in a free market negotiation you are missing how worth is determined.

They can threaten to keep running the treadmill but they cannot threaten to go to a compe or. We literally hold the only picks they can use.

We are quite literally offering them what will be top 5 picks for them if they do the deal. Why give them all 3?

[mo7888]

I don't get it. Trade those picks one at a time for marginal players? Harden's a who disappears every single playoffs, I wouldn't want him in free agency even on the reduced money the Spurs could offer. Wemby would ing hate playing with a guy who gives such little of a about winning.

It's not that i 'want' Harden. I'd just rather have him + those picks than Trae. I dont think Trae is really better than Harden. And does it matter if he vanishes in the playoffs as long as we're there next year? He probably will be better in 2 years but they're both similar right now.

So, what do i do with those other picks? I wait for someone i really want and package them or maybe move a couple of our own for a player that fits (Cam Johnson caliber or maybe a a smaller pick S&T for Tobias Harris).... or maybe i package all of them along with Harden at the deadline if say Luka falls out with Dallas... or maybe Trae falls completely out in Atlanta and i can trade Harden + a couple of our picks for him, then... the point is there are many more options available to us if we get a player like Harden and keep those picks instead of moving them all for Trae.

[DAF86]

if you think Wemby will wait that long to contend, while the Spurs bring in 9 rookies within 4 years to find his sidekick good luck

The Spurs don't need to become contenders overnight to keep Wemby happy. As long as they show steady improvement season after season, he will be content. I present you another scenario: the Spurs make all these panicky win now moves you guys are proposing but it turns up that Young as a number 2 guy is not enough (most than likely scenario). What now? We're stuck with a roster that is not good enough and without any more resources to improve. How happy do you think Wemby will be then?

[MultiTroll]

Not true:



Basically, The Mavs panicked, went for the established star instead of having patience and are now stucked with an older, worst, more expensive player.



Yeah, basically the age most great players start to contend.

I believe the Mavs version.
Not the choreographed Up In Smoke version.

Butthurt Steven Jackson still trying to re write history to color himself as some greatly dissed star.

[baseline bum]

It's not that i 'want' Harden. I'd just rather have him + those picks than Trae. I dont think Trae is really better than Harden. And does it matter if he vanishes in the playoffs as long as we're there next year? He probably will be better in 2 years but they're both similar right now.

So, what do i do with those other picks? I wait for someone i really want and package them or maybe move a couple of our own for a player that fits (Cam Johnson caliber or maybe a a smaller pick S&T for Tobias Harris).... or maybe i package all of them along with Harden at the deadline if say Luka falls out with Dallas... or maybe Trae falls completely out in Atlanta and i can trade Harden + a couple of our picks for him, then... the point is there are many more options available to us if we get a player like Harden and keep those picks instead of moving them all for Trae.

It matters that Harden has a toxic mentality and doesn't care at all about winning and that would piss Wemby off. I'd give Atlanta all their picks back for Murray or Jalen Johnson before bringing Harden in here. I'd give Atlanta all their picks back for Capella or for seconds or for a year of Chick Fil-A and some Outkast tapes before I'd want Harden anywhere near the Spurs.

[TD 21]

Like I said above, why do we need to get Wemby's co-star before the 25 draft? Getting that second star that is going to sidekick Wemby for years to come is kinda of a big deal. I know some people might think that if Trae doesn't pan out, they can just re-direct and get rid of him quite easily, but I don't know how realistic that would be. In getting Young, you're giving up, at least, 4 unprotected first round picks and a big ass contract. Pivoting from that won't be as easy as some of you might think.

Making a move for Trae that ends up proving to be not good enough to trully contend for championships might end up costing us Wembanyama. I don't know why we should be in any rush to make that decision and settle for, arguably, the most flawed "star" in the entire league, tbh.

They don't necessarily have to do that, but even the half measures (say Murray) would cost considerable draft capital anyway.

Being ultra conservative to the point of being scared to make a mistake could end up costing up Wembanyama in the long run, too. At the very least, even if Young blows up in their face, they'll have shown him they're committed to winning sooner than later and not wasting his time hoping to get lucky with a co-star who checks virtually ever box.

It doesn't have to be Young, the point is that this is not a regular re-build and it needs to be treated as such.

[SOMA Spur]

They can ask all they want, Spurs don't have to bid against themselves. But they can have their Charlotte pick back, maybe even the Chicago lottery protected one so they can save face.

Ding.ding.ding. Now we're talking. This will be the minimum of a deal it would take - 4 picks and a swap. My guess it might take another swap. Hopefully not. But the saving face part is real. ATL (and mainly their jagoff owners son) needs to tell their fan base they screwed over SA this time in the deal. "We got more than the KD trade!" But here's the secret - we're actually screwing them, big time. What Trae will unlock with this team will be immense. And if that happens before draft night, even better.

[mo7888]

It matters that Harden has a toxic mentality and doesn't care at all about winning and that would piss Wemby off. I'd give Atlanta all their picks back for Murray or Jalen Johnson before bringing Harden in here. I'd give Atlanta all their picks back for Capella or for seconds or for a year of Chick Fil-A and some Outkast tapes before I'd want Harden anywhere near the Spurs.

I don't think Wemby is going to be upset if we sign Harden. I think he'll be thrilled because he'll be seeing the FO being proactive. That seems to be what he's telling them...

[baseline bum]

The Spurs don't need to become contenders overnight to keep Wemby happy. As long as they show steady improvement season after season, he will be content. I present you another scenario: the Spurs make all these panicky win now moves you guys are proposing but it turns up that Young as a number 2 guy is not enough (most than likely scenario). What now? We're stuck with a roster that is not good enough and without any more resources to improve. How happy do you think Wemby will be then?

What is panicky about two picks and a swap all likely to be around #10 plus some change for Young? For a guy who makes Capella look decent since he's elite at finding his big for lobs. For a guy opposing defenses will have to chase off the three point line and who can get to the basket at a high level too.

[DAF86]

When they hit, then it’s another three years to get that player acclimated. I’m glad you think we have all this time to get that player and have so much faith that one of those players will pan out. It’s like putting all your eggs in a basket in a few lottery tickets.

Not necesarily. Manu helped right away when he came in.

[baseline bum]

I don't think Wemby is going to be upset if we sign Harden. I think he'll be thrilled because he'll be seeing the FO being proactive. That seems to be what he's telling them...

And then he'll see how little Harden cares about winning and become upset.

[baseline bum]

Not necesarily. Manu helped right away when he came in.

Manu was 25 and the best player in Euroleague.

[DAF86]

What is panicky about two picks and a swap all likely to be around #10 plus some change for Young? For a guy who makes Capella look decent since he's elite at finding his big for lobs. For a guy opposing defenses will have to chase off the three point line and who can get to the basket at a high level too.

It is not only about the picks, you would also be giving up max cap space to a player that is severely flawed. Pretty much giving up on pairing Wemby with any guy better than Young.

[Dejounte]

What is panicky about two picks and a swap all likely to be around #10 plus some change for Young? For a guy who makes Capella look decent since he's elite at finding his big for lobs. For a guy opposing defenses will have to chase off the three point line and who can get to the basket at a high level too.

The answer is nothing. Nothing makes it panicky. These guys want to stand pat forever and rely on past Spurs’ history and think they can rekindle that magic again with Manu and Parker. Every team has caught up with the Spurs in that regard. The days of old when the Spurs found gold are long gone. It’s all about getting lucky these days and relying on luck is poor management.

[mo7888]

And then he'll see how little Harden cares about winning and become upset.

I doubt that the odds of him upsetting Wemby are greater than the odds that Trae would upset Wemby, but if it does, you trade him... and you've got assets to include to go after someone better...

[RC_Drunkford]

That is great and all but Young was drafted 5th. I forget exactly where but there is a significant increase in success after 8 and again at 4 or something like that. But if you want to pretend that the Spurs have a bad success rate picking 10+ then have fun.

who guarantees that those Hawks picks will be top 5 picks? The chances are rather slim

Off the top of my head, players drafted in the past few years that are or project to be as good or better than Young: Wemby, Chet, Banchero, Haliburton, Jalen Brunson, Cade, Edwards, Barnes, Wagner, J-Williams, Sengun. And I got tired of thinking.

Now, most of you might think many of these guys are not as good as Young but to me they are. A guy like Franz Wagner might not be seen as an all-star but I would rather have him over Young if I'm trying to build a championship level team. Young is kinda like Westbrook to me, a guy that will put up numbers but that needs a lot of things to be accomodated around him to try and build a contender with him on the team. Just too flawed of a player.

Guess what: The Spurs had the chance to draft Haliburton, Sengun, Jalen Brunson and J-Will, but they didn't What makes you so confident that they will somehow draft the right guy, when history says they won't?

[Dejounte]

Not necesarily. Manu helped right away when he came in.

Ha! When I made my last post, I didn’t see this. My last post was spot on. You’re living in the past.

[RC_Drunkford]

so let me get this straight: People don't want Trae Young because he's a liability on defense and is a heliocentric guard who needs the ball in his hands. But people want Harden who's a liability on defense and is a heliocentric guard who needs the ball in his hands, while also being on the wrong side of 30 and a known choker. You can't make this up

[KobesAchilles]

The Spurs don't need to become contenders overnight to keep Wemby happy. As long as they show steady improvement season after season, he will be content. I present you another scenario: the Spurs make all these panicky win now moves you guys are proposing but it turns up that Young as a number 2 guy is not enough (most than likely scenario). What now? We're stuck with a roster that is not good enough and without any more resources to improve. How happy do you think Wemby will be then?

Here’s another scenario. Wright has no idea how to draft. The Spurs make the wrong picks. We are still the youngest team in the NBA since we didn’t trade any of our picks. The roster finishes in the 7-8 seed at best and we lose a lot. And on top of all that we still don’t get a second star even with our picks. None of our guards are as good as Young. And the Spurs wasted an opportunity to get a bonafide all star player. Plus in the mean time we are stuck with middling guys eating up our cap space and have no real shot at improving.

Thats more likely to happen. Plus it won’t take all of our picks to get Young anyways. Toronto pick, Hawks pick, and a FRP from us ought to do it. Heck we can even throw in the pick swap back. That still leaves us with one Hawks pick, and all of our own FRPs except next years. Or 2026 if we think next years draft is really strong. Plus we will still be able to draft Risacher with our own pick. Get rid of Collins and have cap space to get actual help for Wemby. None of our future is wasted