Windhorst: Wembanyama Not Thrilled With Where Spurs Are; Doesn't Think Spurs Can Get Away With Slow Build

[TheChillFactor]

yeah, victor really looked like he hates it here tonight...fatass honky windhorst is wrong as usual

[Das Texan]

The major media guys stirring the pot about Wemby wanting to go to LA/NY should be no surprise. Of course Wemby hates having to play 82 games with close to no chance of winning. All I would read into this is that Windhorst has zero sources within the spurs that he cares about burning

The same was said about David Robinson from the moment he was drafted.

nothing new here at all.

[get_mills_out]

Being "shocked" at how bad the supporting cast is, is the exact type of thing that happens when you got a 72 year old running the show who has lost the plot.

I mean.. if you were saying preseason that Vic would be an instant top 15 player in the league, and that the entire supporting cast would regress, hats off to you. McDonald’s overarching point was that PATFO, reasonably, went into the season in “see what we have” mode and were unpleasantly surprised that beyond Vic the cupboard is basically empty.

[mudyez]

Wemby doesn't get tired saying how happy he is to be a Spur. Can that change over the next few seasons? Maybe. But right now he is happyly pointing on the Spurs sign on his chest (see today after the win)...and not the Wembanyama on his back.

[z0sa]

I know you have not performed a deduction. As I said you fall far short oof one. Your logic is just asserting a possibility and claiming it is true.

I said the answer was no. This is three times now. I am sorry that your rhetorical gotcha question is not working out for you.

Hey if you want to think that they are doing everything they can to win then you go right ahead. Either way were in line for equal best shot at #1. I am okay with the outcome.

Thanks for finally answering a simple yes or no question. As for the rhetorical question I posed, in my humble opinion, it has accomplished exactly what I wanted it to. Now that you've answered, here's my response: since you think a regular coach (not even a HOFer) would not be held to the standard of improving his basketball team after securing a #1 pick, I find your position meritless and furthermore, utterly ridiculous. It flies in the face of both easily discovered NBA history and simple common sense.

You've taken Popovich literally saying winning is important and somehow came to this conclusion. In my opinion, that conclusion is obviously incorrect. Of course, you're en led to it.

Moving on to the bolded, that's simply not true - in fact, you're the one who is projecting this. I'm open to the idea of the stealth tank, I just don't think it's true. Pop hasn't been able to get it done, that simple. If you want to actually argue the players don't fit next to Wemby, as you originally asserted, and which I directly acknowledged in my original reply, I'm willing to entertain the conversation. You'd need to actually make that argument, though.

[Tyronn Lue]

Few things from this thread.

1. Everyone here is well aware that Victor's camp wants Victor to experience success sooner than later.
2. Pop has zero pressure to win now, because Pop is a HOFer, legendary GOAT coach with the most lucrative salary in the history of NBA coaching. Worst that will happen is he recedes to just PoBO.
3. Winning more games but losing in the 1st round is still not winning now. In fact anything short of the NBA final 4 is just a later loser and maybe not championship material.
4. Too many act like Leonard was on a ty team and left for a better one. While that is true in the micro it isn't in the macro. Leonard made 2 consecutive Finals appearances with the Spurs and won 2 DPOY and a Finals MVP. Outside of the flukey Toronto situation, Leonard has done jack since he left SA.

It seems like "win now" for Victor's camp and his fans is more "give Victor more accolades now". When he gets RotY and maybe DPoY and certainly 1st team all defense, he'll have a good start on accolades. If Victor is on a team that makes the playoffs yearly, he makes the ASG yearly, gets cool awards for defense and 1st team all NBA but no ring, he's really only getting individual accolades.

[The Truth #6]

This is an encouraging level of self-awareness.

I agree. As fans we want an acknowledgement of reality and not to be gaslit. For me, the deeper take is they need to acknowledge their role in the debacle (Sochan at PG was a long shot that was worth attempting, but they shouldn't be shocked that it backfired horribly.) Moreover, they can't be s shocked all season. Shake things up. Barlow is playing well and the team is improving --seems like a good idea to give him more minutes, as an example. Lots of weird choices: lots of minutes for Branham, none for Graham, for example. Weird tunnel vision in how they look at players. Pop needs someone to tell him when to stop doing stupid stuff, and it usually has come from a player with clout, but there's no vocal leader yet on the team.

Anyway. Just rambling. Not directed at you, Scott.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Thanks for finally answering a simple yes or no question. As for the rhetorical question I posed, in my humble opinion, it has accomplished exactly what I wanted it to. Now that you've answered, here's my response: since you think a regular coach (not even a HOFer) would not be held to the standard of improving his basketball team after securing a #1 pick, I find your position meritless and furthermore, utterly ridiculous. It flies in the face of both easily discovered NBA history and simple common sense.

You've taken Popovich literally saying winning is important and somehow came to this conclusion. In my opinion, that conclusion is obviously incorrect. Of course, you're en led to it.

Moving on to the bolded, that's simply not true - in fact, you're the one who is projecting this. I'm open to the idea of the stealth tank, I just don't think it's true. Pop hasn't been able to get it done, that simple. If you want to actually argue the players don't fit next to Wemby, as you originally asserted, and which I directly acknowledged in my original reply, I'm willing to entertain the conversation. You'd need to actually make that argument, though.

well, there was a reason why I pointed out winshares are not transferrable. It comes down to how the stats are formulated season to season uniquely and the structure of the schedule.

Thinking that you can just take a win total from one year, make up some expected wins added in to the next year expectation and thinking you are making a statistically sound argument is just ignorant.

As I also pointed out, I want championships and right now staying in the bottom 4 helps us do that most. You can continue to grind your axe against Pop and doubt him. I do not share your views.

[kht]

Jeez... we're not even a half season in. Plus not like Wemby isn't making unforced errors on his end.

[Tyronn Lue]

Jeez... we're not even a half season in. Plus not like Wemby isn't making unforced errors on his end.

What? They've played 60 games, it's an 82 game season.

[get_mills_out]

I agree. As fans we want an acknowledgement of reality and not to be gaslit. For me, the deeper take is they need to acknowledge their role in the debacle (Sochan at PG was a long shot that was worth attempting, but they shouldn't be shocked that it backfired horribly.) Moreover, they can't be s shocked all season. Shake things up. Barlow is playing well and the team is improving --seems like a good idea to give him more minutes, as an example. Lots of weird choices: lots of minutes for Branham, none for Graham, for example. Weird tunnel vision in how they look at players. Pop needs someone to tell him when to stop doing stupid stuff, and it usually has come from a player with clout, but there's no vocal leader yet on the team.

Anyway. Just rambling. Not directed at you, Scott.

I mean with graham they basically keep him on the bench as a gesture to his agent I assume. Much like Thad Young or that one guy whose name escapes me that pop just wouldn’t play until he went to the rockets and then retired. My assumption is they don’t participate in Pops geography homework assignments.

This years roster is just kinda skull ed from top to bottom. 0 players got better and a handful got worse. They don’t have a single player who can both shoot and play quarterback with a live dribble.

[z0sa]

well, there was a reason why I pointed out winshares are not transferrable. It comes down to how the stats are formulated season to season uniquely and the structure of the schedule.

Thinking that you can just take a win total from one year, make up some expected added in expectation and thinking you are making a statistically sound argument is just ignorant.

As I also pointed out, I want championships and right now staying in the bottom 4 helps us do that most. You can continue to grind your axe against Pop and doubt him. I do not share your views.

You make assertions like (paraphrasing), "Pop has been losing on purpose for a while now" and "building through the draft by tanking again is the best way forward for a championship." But you don't back it up with anything. Meanwhile, when I post that Pop is literally saying we want to win, Wemby is downplaying his 5x5 game because of losses, Vassell is saying everyone is focused only on winning, et cetera, I'm the one making, or rather "falling far short" of a deduction.

There's no guarantee losing more this season will get us another impactful player with how mid this draft is, for instance. That, I would say, is what qualifies for falling short in one's deductive reasoning.

Or, even more egregiously, that losing is the best way for us to move forward and win. You're telling me, if the Spurs suddenly went on a streak and won say, 15 of their next 20, with our previously deadweight role players suddenly contributing and stepping up, it'd be a bad thing because our draft choice would be lower? And in this draft?

[Guru of Nothing]

What? They've played 60 games, it's an 82 game season.

Not if you bundle them... with a playoff run.

[scott]

Spurs have a long history of excellent symbiotic relationships with their stars. You make it seem like Wemby is going to have to have some sort of confrontation or sit down to get his views heard. I think that premise is completely false and at best it is unfounded.

If you read it that way, I apologize that you’re stupid.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You make assertions like (paraphrasing), "Pop has been losing on purpose for a while now" and "building through the draft by tanking again is the best way forward for a championship." But you don't back it up with anything. Meanwhile, when I post that Pop is literally saying we want to win, Wemby is downplaying his 5x5 game because of losses, Vassell is saying everyone is focused only on winning, et cetera, I'm the one making, or rather "falling far short" of a deduction.

There's no guarantee losing more this season will get us another impactful player with how mid this draft is, for instance. That, I would say, is what qualifies for falling short in one's deductive reasoning.

Or, even more egregiously, that losing is the best way for us to move forward and win. You're telling me, if the Spurs suddenly went on a streak and won say, 15 of their next 20, with our previously deadweight role players suddenly contributing and stepping up, it'd be a bad thing because our draft choice would be lower? And in this draft?

Well at least you have accepted your question was .

I am usure if Pop is doing everything he can to win. As I pointed out either way I like the outcome.

Spurs are famously opaque and I have accepted when it comes to what the internal workings I will be ignorant. You asking stupid questions in lieu of arguments is not going to pierce that veil.

Great win tonight. RotY in the bag. Wemby looks better and better. Still in the bottom 4.

[z0sa]

Well at least you have accepted your question was .

I am usure if Pop is doing everything he can to win. As I pointed out either way I like the outcome.

Spurs are famously opaque and I have accepted when it comes to what the internal workings I will be ignorant. You asking stupid questions in lieu of arguments is not going to pierce that veil.

Great win tonight. RotY in the bag. Wemby looks better and better. Still in the bottom 4.

The only thing stupid about my question was you answering it. You should realize it reveals that you have no real argument against what I'm saying, are simply posting to annoy people and try to sling for no other reason than your (unfounded, unproven, and incomplete) opinion is different.

Changing the subject to talk about ROY and our Bottom 4 position doesn't change that. We're bottom 4 because we suck, and Pop has failed. You can put your fingers in your ears and scream stealth tank instead, and I'm perfectly ok with you doing that.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The only thing stupid about my question was you answering it. You should realize it reveals that you have no real argument against what I'm saying, are simply posting to annoy people and try to sling for no other reason than your (unfounded, unproven, and incomplete) opinion is different.

Changing the subject to talk about ROY and our Bottom 4 position doesn't change that. We're bottom 4 because we suck, and Pop has failed. You can put your fingers in your ears and scream stealth tank instead, and I'm perfectly ok with you doing that.

You going to address my argument about adding wins from year to year?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If you read it that way, I apologize that you’re stupid.

So explain how he would exert pressure then. You just seem petulant.

[Chinook]

Jeff mcdonald was on 94.1 and made it sound like PATFO are s shocked at how bad the supporting cast has been. Whether they clean house from a playerdev standpoint or take a serious look at the BB ops braintrust that thought this season was going to be about “learning how to win” remains to be seen, but he said to expect some serious offseason roster movement with an eye toward winning

To a certain extent, you can't deny the Spurs misread the team. There's no way on this planet they gave Collins an extension if they think there's any chance at all he'd be a poor bench player. They legit thought Zach could get more than that in free agency -- even with this modern NBA market. If Pop legit thought Sochan starting a PG was going to be a win-now move rather than a developmental one ... well that's certainly a strong opinion. But when you add in the lack of compe ion at camp (when it was becoming more apparent where the players actually were) and still never giving Graham a chance suggests the team probably did make the decision to play for the draft early on. After all, if you're trying to build through the draft, and the guys you've mostly drafted are disappointing, it just puts more emphasis on the need to have a higher draft pick. The last thing the Spurs need is some guy in the late teens taking up another roster spot.

It does make me wonder how serious their talks about Murray and/or Young were. If they were legit interested in DJM, they had the means to acquire him. That they didn't is either a sign they didn't particularly want him, or they valued this year's pick. That might even be more the case for Young, but with the increased value, there's more wiggle room there.

[daslicer]

Now do San Antonio

I have never lived in San Antonio, so I don't have emotional ties to the city. I have heard it's boring and dull compared to other markets. If people say it's a hole it doesn't faze me in anyway.

[z0sa]

You going to address my argument about adding wins from year to year?

I find this argument obscure, at best, dude. You're reaching for straws, but if you want my honest opinion (other than it's irrelevant) is that winshares is simply not representative of situations such as these. Every generational talent who has actually gotten on the floor and met or exceeded expectations has turned their team around, at least, any that I can think of. This might reduce winshares for some players, sure - that doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad fit, even. It could just mean they are being utilized less. Honestly, I'm not seeing much of an argument here, tbh. It is what it is.

Wemby is basically the lone exception, and it's unfortunately, a bad exception right now. It's almost like you're really making the argument that the problem is Wemby, at least, judging from the evidence. I'm much more pre-disposed to think it's actually Pop, since this team minus Devin Vassel and Wemby managed 22 wins. Don't see how you get around it being one or the other, from your perspective.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I have never lived in San Antonio, so I don't have emotional ties to the city. I have heard it's boring and dull compared to other markets. If people say it's a hole it doesn't faze me in anyway.

San Antonio does an awesome job of spreading out the poverty. You go around neighborhoods from Castle Hills to the Dominion and you will find some section 8 and a trailer park. You do not see the sea of ghetto like Houston, New Orleans, and up the Eastern Seaboard in places like Baltimore or Philadelphia or the trailer s you find outside Louisville or Nashville.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I find this argument obscure, at best, dude. You're reaching for straws, but if you want my honest opinion (other than it's irrelevant) is that winshares is simply not representative of situations such as these. Every generational talent who has actually gotten on the floor and met or exceeded expectations has turned their team around, at least, any that I can think of. This might reduce winshares for some players, sure - that doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad fit, even. It could just mean they are being utilized less. Honestly, I'm not seeing much of an argument here, tbh. It is what it is.

Wemby is basically the lone exception, and it's unfortunately, a bad exception right now. It's almost like you're really making the argument that the problem is Wemby, at least, judging from the evidence. I'm much more pre-disposed to think it's actually Pop, since this team minus Devin Vassel and Wemby managed 22 wins. Don't see how you get around it being one or the other, from your perspective.

You don't understand stats and grandstand on a question based on them. It's okay. I particularly like it in light of you telling me I had no credibility.

[z0sa]

You don't understand stats and grandstand on a question based on them. It's okay. I particularly like it in light of you telling me I had no credibility.

ELI5, Fuzzy - I've got nothing to prove. I'll be glad to learn a thing or two about advanced stats, as I truly am inexperienced with them. What are you getting at using winshares in this specific situation with this specific team?

[poopbox]

I mean.. if you were saying preseason that Vic would be an instant top 15 player in the league, and that the entire supporting cast would regress, hats off to you. McDonald’s overarching point was that PATFO, reasonably, went into the season in “see what we have” mode and were unpleasantly surprised that beyond Vic the cupboard is basically empty.

Knowing that Victor would be this good this fast? Nope. Knowing that a player like Sochan who wasn't particularly good at anything in college isn't particularly good at anything in the nba? Knowing that playing him at point guard while he has absolutely no ball handling or passing skills? Knowing that tweener guards like Wesley and Branham might not be all that good? Knowing that undersized bigs who don't have any real offensive skill like Barlow and Bassey won't be that good? If you watch enough basketball none of this stuff is particularly hard to spot.

There are certain skillsets you see on all the top teams in the league. The spurs players don't have those skillsets. There are certain ways the top teams in the league are built. The spurs are not built that way.

Osman is a perfect example. Cleveland got thumped by the knicks in the playoffs and they said we need to get better. And what is one of the main ways they decided to get better? By getting rid of Cedi Osman, who spent all last year getting smoked on defense. And what did Cleveland do instead of playing Cedi? It doesn't really matter...what matters is that a team that is a lock to make the playoffs decided they had to get better, and one of the main ways they tried to do it was to stop playing a player that the spurs are currently playing pretty consistently. When you comprise your team of players that other teams that are good are trying to get rid of...your team is probably not going to be very good.