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mamu is trash tbh
mamu is trash tbh
Let's put 4 non shooters on the perimeter to give Wemby some space in the post.
I like the idea of Mamu more than the reality. Spurs should be looking for (better) versions of the same archetype. NBA size, high BBIQ, threat from outside, can BOTH read passing lanes AND score with a live dribble. Now that we have Wemby I truly dgaf how athletic and "over themselves" guys are, or if they "play the right way". We need smart players who can shoot, pass, and dribble in that order.
Aside from Vassell imo Mamu is the closest to ticking all of those boxes. I just think it's funny that he plays 0 minutes.
Look ma, it's a soft quintuple team!
basically this. he usually looks better than his production offensively because he does move with suddenness and with purpose. it just doesnt always yield results. he obviously has skills for a guy his size, but they dont manifest. and every time he has a 2-3 minute stretch where good things happen and i ask myself "huh, its kind of weird why he doesnt play more" and then i watch him just play branham level defense and think "oh, thats why"
Mamu runs the way I assume Borat does. This is my favorite part about watching him play.
I've only seen one. Wama sounded combo of saying the right pc thing and mildly happy. Hardly thrilled. Surely you have links to others? No.
Ive hated his strategies since 2004.
It's become soo obvious since to the uninitiated since 2019.
But you Sniffers refuse to admit.
Sniffer Island is where you're at.
I'm hardly in the minority of clearly seeing how inept his strategies and personnel moves are.
Since the only way to stay in the organization is to be a Yes Man or Yes Woman to Popped, your guess that "everyone" loves his strategies is a big whatever.
Would love to hear what Timmy Duncar, Manu and Becky really think.
Seems like it would be beneficial to team chemistry and Wemby morale to see us beat a team without him that just curb stomped us with him.
Stay thirsty, my friends!
Fine i guess. Has Gaymond done something since his latest bullying incident? That is when i bump it. Or when someone (you know besides you) chooses to comment.
Yes many others besides yourself had and have entered the discussion.
You're still very butthurt towards me over the thread.
The funny thing about this one is the play is for Wesley to set a screen for Branham so he can receive a pass at the top of the key with a better angle for Victor. But the defense pays so little attention to either of them that they just end up doing this awkward high five as Branham runs past Wesley.
Also all of these are from Victor highlights. He scores on all of these plays. Imagine how bad that makes the non-highlights
EDIT: I'm going to make some changes here for clarity, but I wrote this post originally without seeing the clip, assuming the still image presented was an accurate representation of the defense. I commented in a later post after I saw that and will mostly leave this as it was.
The funny thing about this one is the play is for Wesley to set a screen for Branham so he can receive a pass at the top of the key with a better angle for Victor. But the defense pays so little attention to either of them that they just end up doing this awkward high five as Branham runs past Wesley.
Also all of these are from Victor highlights. He scores on all of these plays. Imagine how bad that makes the non-highlights
The action you're describing is called a high-low and is a traditional big-to-big pass. Here are highlights to Duncan and LMA running it:
And one of the Spurs running it in general with Tim as the low man:
You should be able to see some differences between those plays and the this one that you believe the Spurs could run that action for. The first thing that stands out to me is that Branham or Wesley is not a big. The reason why the pass comes from a big is to pull the passers' man out of the paint and to create an easier angle for the lob. Even ignoring that the Grizz aren't guarding anyone else (EDIT to say that no, the Grizzlies are guarding their men, which creates the space I assumed wasn't available), Wesley or Branham's man wouldn't be in the paint to pull out. That's not an instant deal-breaker, as the second vid shows wings doing the pass if they're quick enough (which is what happened in this case). But the inside pressure that a second big generates is part of what makes those plays work and why the Spurs shouldn't be so hasty to avoid playing a center if they can find the right one
The next thing I'm looking at is how high Wemby is in his post-up. That's way too high for a high-low, though typically, a player wouldn't front the post that high up, because it leaves open a lob into the open space. (EDIT to say that by the time the high-low actually happens, Wemby is basically under the basket exactly where he should be.)The issue is that Grizzlies are absolutely playing that lob pass. (EDIT to say they aren't, because they aren't quintuple teaming Wemby like the screen shot implied. They basically abandon the paint by the end of the possession.) That's why they can't "just throw it up there" as often as some posters wish. Even after a high-low action, there's a lot of room for defenders to get in the way of that pass and of Victor's path to the basket. One possible solution would be to throw the ball toward the short corner and have the strong side Spurs cut behind their men to the basket. Victor catches the ball, turns and immediately finds a cutter for a score. You do that enough times, and the defenders are going to start staying home, whether they respect the Spurs' shooting or not. (EDIT to say this is likely what Memphis was scared of and why they abandoned the paint the second the Spurs did anything other than trying to force that entry pass).
The biggest thing is that high-lows are timing/chemistry actions often done on the fly to counter certain types of defenses. That second video features Tim as the scorer, and you can see how he is reading the floor and syncing him movements to line up with the passes. Tim reads the floor, sees a high-low needs to happen and stops calling for the ball. As soon as the pass is made to the high-man, Tim seals his man, creates the target window and calls for the ball. Understanding when the windows in the offense are so you can be "open" at the right time is essential to good off-ball play, be it in plays like this, duck-ins, rolls, curls, transition etc. This isn't something Wemby's teammates do for him. It's something he and the other players learn and then watch film, talk it out and practice to get it right. That action isn't as easy to do in general now with the lack of a second big, and it wouldn't be a counter to that tight of a defense that doesn't care about anyone else on the court, but any timing play is worth them learning and incorporating, because teams aren't going to stop defending Wemby this way until it stops working. (EDIT only to say that the way Pop was directing this high-low indeed suggests the Spurs are working on ways to get Wemby the ball besides raw post-ups. You can see from Wemby's reaction that this was an action specifically worked on by the team. It's good stuff. )
Last edited by Chinook; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:58 PM.
Would be nice to get a video for these still images. Like it's clear that Vassell is moving, so rather than asking what he is doing, we could just watch the video to see what he's doing. This looks like it's from the :24 mark of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg1h...l=ZHHighlights
Vassell is getting out of the paint after passing the ball to Victor, who short-rolled right into the middle of the Warriors discombobulated defense. Golden State seems to be playing a zone here, which is why they aren't against their men. Thompson switched onto Wemby but just guarded air, leaving the left side of the glass open for Victor to spin for a nice finish. You can just go forward a bit later in the video to see the Warriors didn't play that defense most of the game. But I guess screen shots are nice.
1:55 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZK1...l=ZHHighlights
Let's unpack this a bit: Thompson is guarding Wemby, which Tate committing to early help. Bullock and Holiday are prerotated for help. What was supposed to happen is that Tate was suppose to help toward the baseline, leaving the pass to Wesley open. Then Bullock to Wesley, Holiday to Champangie and Tate to Mamu. We've actually talked about a similar rotation in a different context before. The issue is Tate's help is bad. He runs the to wrong shoulder, leaving the basket open for Wemby. That's why Tate and Holiday are yelling at each other after the clip, because this wasn't the defense Houston was trying to play. It was a mistake that left literally everyone open. Even Jeff Green is ball-watching and lets Branham drift for a wide open three-point look, probably short-circuiting the whole rotation in the first place since the pass would've just gone to Malaki.
So yeah, so far you've posted two shots of poor defense and called for a high-low in a situation where it didn't make sense. I haven't even looked at the Memphis clip though. Let me check it out.
3:13 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epTo...l=ZHHighlights
Oh, would you look at that, it was a high-low play that was able to work because Wemby and Branham coordinated, and the Grizzlies completely vacated the paint. Memphis was absolutely not guarding the way the screen shot suggested they were. They were sticking right to their men and allowed a clean pass because of it. If Memphis were playing the Spurs like you suggested they were, that high-low wouldn't be there, because Pereira would've been right there. Instead, he ran to guard Osman.
The "wave" by the way isn't a high-five, nor is it a call for a screen It's just him telling Branham to rotate. You can also see Pop calls for the high-low to be thrown, so it's clear it's something the team is working on.
I feel kind of dumb, because I got caught up in the high-low talk and just assumed you were accurately representing the situations you were citing. I won't make that mistake again.
I haven't thought too much about these screenshots/plays other than to think they are funny... but there is a bigger take away for me that comes from Chinook's analysis - teams are getting suckered into bad defensive positions due to Wemby's gravity, but the Spurs are unable to fully take advantage of it because their players aren't very good. This should be the first, and maybe only, observation that needs to be made and should give clear direction to what needs to happen - the talent needs to be upgraded and some of these other guys should be moved on from or sent to the end of the bench where they can develop on a more appropriate timeline for their skill sets.
You're not wrong. These are examples of teams overreacting to Wemby potentially getting a paint touch that are similar to the bad defensive possessions we used to talk about earlier in the year where all of the Spurs would run into the paint and leave guys open for threes. It's definitely something the team should leverage more going forward. I've talked about the dialectic nature of Wemby's development and how it's an arms race of Wemby and opposing defenses adding measures and counter-measures to try to get ahead of each other. Hand in hand with that is the roster improving, both from bringing new players in and from the ones who stay developing and taking the (hopefully good) coaching to make a system work.
But it's important to note that these screen shots are misinformation. They aren't a sign of Wemby scoring "despite the defense". These are examples of Wemby scoring against a defense that is out of sorts. That's not a knock against Victor -- it's what stars are supposed to do. But it is a counter to the narratives some posters cling to in order to never have to change their minds. They have to believe the guys are awful, so they can't be happy if they win a game without Victor, and they have to post misleading screen shots to find "evidence" for their stance.
And to that end, we don't talk as frequently about how a better surrounding cast will aid in Wemby's development. Man, I can't wait for the offseason to get here already.
The funny thing about this one is the play is for Wesley to set a screen for Branham so he can receive a pass at the top of the key with a better angle for Victor. But the defense pays so little attention to either of them that they just end up doing this awkward high five as Branham runs past Wesley.
…
The Grizz were in zone defense so the need for a down screen never existed. (Of course a team can do the same play actions against either zone or man to man.) But the screen idea doesn’t apply here. Why they did what they did with their hands, who knows. Just force of habit, maybe.
Anyway, Wesley and Branham switched places. They switched so Branham would be the one to receive the pass from Keldon, if Keldon couldn’t get the ball to Wemby.
You’re exactly right, of course, about them looking for a better angle to Wemby, if Keldon couldn’t pass to him.
The switch was because Branham is a far better shooter than Wesley. If the pass to Wemby still wasn’t possible, the next option was to shoot. (The shot clock is running.)
Branham isn’t a great shooter, but Wesley is hopeless. So, the switch.
Fortunately, Branham was able to make the pass to Wemby. And the fans cheer.
BTW, all that ridiculous clown show drivel that Chinook posted can safely be ignored. He doesn’t even know what the term “high-low” means.
what was up with Windhorst today? He sounded like someone who is falling in love with the SA/Austin metro area.
Homie discovered Mexican food and Latina women this weekend. Is now all in.
Vassell was never in the paint the entire play.
His launching point when passing the ball was just outside the corner arc.
Windhorst is so frustrating some times. “I’m gonna announce this… some players are going to want to play with Victor… at some point in time…”
And from my memory, he landed at the corner of the paint by the elbow and then ran out.
It doesn't matter though since I posted the video so we could all see what happened without depending on a dishonest screen shot or a quick description from a poster.
Meh...has more to do with his teammates sucking and defensive knowing they won't make the shot, pass, or correct play.
Swap out Branhim and Wesley with say KCP and Bruce Brown and no defense is going to react like that even if Wemby has his guy buried under the rim.
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