[Finger] I say this without an ounce of exaggeration or hyperbole: I talk to people about the Spurs every day. And of all those people, there is one who is, by far, the most forward-thinking and relentlessly patient when it comes to the plan.

[Spursfanfromafar]

One of my favourite players ever as a Spur. He and Poeltl were very good relative to their talent. Just unfortunate that they came in between the Duncan and Wemby eras.

[Ariel]

One of my favourite players ever as a Spur. He and Poeltl were very good relative to their talent. Just unfortunate that they came in between the Duncan and Wemby eras.

He should hit free agency a year from now (unless he decides to sign below his market value), and Boston is at the 2nd apron, so I'm hoping I'm not deluding myself and there's a chance.

[Tyronn Lue]

Yeah, that's the other thing that baffles me about current discussions on ST.

Who's untouchable other than Wemby? I mean, I wouldn't even say no to trading Vassell if the deal was right. It'd have to be a sweet haul, but everyone, everyone is expendable right now.

Some aren't just expendable, they are disposable.

[Spursfanfromafar]

He should hit free agency a year from now (unless he decides to sign below his market value), and Boston is at the 2nd apron, so I'm hoping I'm not deluding myself and there's a chance.

Indeed. Although, I think, Boston will try to trade Brown for functional parts (especially so if they win the championship this year) and retain White for a much cheaper contract.

[rankingtear]

Meaning you cannot fill your roster with developing players and expect everyone to come along at the same speed, with the same upside. There are players even starting for the Spurs who have no obvious upside. There's nothing remarkable about anyone on the Spurs not named Victor Wembanyama. Sure there are some pedestrian level shooters and Vassell is above small market average for a role player (he's not a star), but from Collins to Julian, these guys are all bench players on any other team and Julian probably doesn't even make another team who isn't tanking.

You don't need 5 superstars, but you need some more senior players on the team. Right now you have a prodigy learning chess in group lock step with special ed kids.

It almost feels like Pop is hesitant to even consider Victor a franchise guy, like he wants to give everyone the same consideration. Not all players will be of the Tim Duncan or David Robinson patience and obedience level.

Even if the current guys have no obvious upside, some still can function as a placeholder on your preferred playstyle moving forward. Like Collins is a 5 out center that can find cutters and run dribble handoffs. Julian is a big wing who can cut and spot up and provide rim detterance when Sochan is on POA. OKC did this with their center rotation before Chet their system is based on a 5 out center who can shoot they shuffled through Poku, JRE, Muscala, Roby, Jaylin, those guys have no obvious upside but those guys can be placeholders and there is zero cost on getting or cutting them. Now they are running their system for 3 years and there is zero friction when Chet comes in.

[ambchang]

Virtually everyone prefers the non liability type; good luck finding it is the point.

But again, without the Nets injuries the Bucks in the Holiday era were a bust in the half court offensively in the playoffs because they lacked high end play making. It's the same reason the Celtics and Clippers haven't been great either.

That was on Khris back in the day. The demise of bucks had to do with khris falling off the cliff due to injuries. Not this year but over the last few years.

Jrue is strong defensively and pretty good offensively, players like that are not unicorn types but have to be developed. The idea of going after a flawed archetype in Trae, who are PGs who has never won a le (closest being AI getting to the finals) unless you count curry who was the best shooter in nba history and someone who has way higher efficiency, combined with another all time shooter in klay, is the best way to keep wemby and give him the best chance to ring is an odd approach.

Again, we are seeing Lillard with Giannis now, I’m not sure if they will blitz through the playoffs this year or over the next few years to win it alll, but it seems unlikely. They seemed to have gotten visibly worse than last year and it’s. It coincidental. I don’t think they will ring with Jrue in place either as the other pieces just got worse since they rung, but I’m quite certain they’d be a better team with Jrue instead of Lillard.

Now is Trae a massive upgrade over Tre? Of course he is! I’m not that blind. If we can get him for a reasonable price I’d say it would be odd not to take it. I am worried about his contract and that would limit upgrade opportunities at SF and the bench but having him starting will move Tre to the bench which would be a boost to the second unit. I also think Trae can make life much easier for Vassell and sochan. I also think Trae would be tradable down the line. But having all our draft picks would allow the spurs to find a good PG and SF in the upcoming drafts who they can mold into a Jrue type and a 3 and d wing man.

[pad300]

Derrick is good, and not a defensive liability, but he's not an elite playmaker either...

[Mikesatx]

So much speculation on what Wemby is thinking and feeling and what the Spurs should or shouldn’t do. There are a few things more likely than not.

Spurs wanted time to evaluate Wemby and see how best to use him.

Spurs could have built a better team this year but likely would have potentially handcuffed themselves in years to come. End up with a more compe ive team now but not one built to a championship caliber.

The teams biggest asset outside of Wemby are the draft picks. Makes more sense to be one of the worst three teams than to be 10th worst or make the play in. This is one of the reasons I think Sochan was point guard early on.

San Antionio has never been a place free agents want to go. All the years competing for championships and free agents still weren’t banging down the door. Maybe things change with Wemby but if not you have to build with the draft and trades.

Not sure about the track record on the draft I. Terms of how we do versus everyone else. Biggest miss for me recently was Halliburton. Devin is a solid player so even with that we didn’t blow it. I do think the Spurs are great at developing their picks. Now living in Chicago the Bulls are terrible in this area.

Bottom line is at this point I’m not sure if there is anything the Spurs should have done differently during Wemby’s short tenure. I don’t recall a free agent over the summer that was really coveted.Again makes more sense to lose this year than try and win a few more games.

[Ariel]

Derrick is good, and not a defensive liability, but he's not an elite playmaker either...

Got it. Will look for a Chris Paul level playmaker, who is also a Steph Curry level scorer and a Jrue Holiday level defender, at Blake Wesley's age, making Tre Jones type money, with a contract that runs as long as Devin Vassell's, and as easy to get as John Collins. Just wait.

[spurraider21]

That was on Khris back in the day. The demise of bucks had to do with khris falling off the cliff due to injuries. Not this year but over the last few years.

Jrue is strong defensively and pretty good offensively, players like that are not unicorn types but have to be developed. The idea of going after a flawed archetype in Trae, who are PGs who has never won a le (closest being AI getting to the finals) unless you count curry who was the best shooter in nba history and someone who has way higher efficiency, combined with another all time shooter in klay, is the best way to keep wemby and give him the best chance to ring is an odd approach.

Again, we are seeing Lillard with Giannis now, I’m not sure if they will blitz through the playoffs this year or over the next few years to win it alll, but it seems unlikely. They seemed to have gotten visibly worse than last year and it’s. It coincidental. I don’t think they will ring with Jrue in place either as the other pieces just got worse since they rung, but I’m quite certain they’d be a better team with Jrue instead of Lillard.

Now is Trae a massive upgrade over Tre? Of course he is! I’m not that blind. If we can get him for a reasonable price I’d say it would be odd not to take it. I am worried about his contract and that would limit upgrade opportunities at SF and the bench but having him starting will move Tre to the bench which would be a boost to the second unit. I also think Trae can make life much easier for Vassell and sochan. I also think Trae would be tradable down the line. But having all our draft picks would allow the spurs to find a good PG and SF in the upcoming drafts who they can mold into a Jrue type and a 3 and d wing man.

if we were to trade for trae in the offseason, say around the draft, if i understand correctly he wouldnt even be eligible to sign a super-max extension starting at 35% of the cap. intsead, he'd likely opt for a shorter extension at 30% so that he can be eligible for the big 35%er later

[RC_Drunkford]

It’s not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, it’s a matter of backing your opinion with facts or stats. The general level of posting here is misogynistic and phobic, with a side of “haha,you’re a sniffer” as the most complicated construct in the post.

says the guy who doesn‘t even know the NBA standings when he‘s tryin to make an argument

[MannyIsGod]

So now the goal post has gone from “we must get Trae young because wemby demands excellence” to “the sniffers are idiots because they aren’t willing to trade anyone” which is a total strawman nobody ever suggested.

Almost no one had the view that the Spurs had to trade for young so that goalpost you say is being moved is just a bull argument you made up. I would be ok with a young trade if the price is right and I think people are idiots if they dismiss a possible deal out of hand.

So many of you make bad faith arguments that misconstrue positions to make them seem outlandish and it’s just a stupid thing to do when the arguments are literally written down for all to see. I don’t know that there was no one who said we had to trade for Trae Young but I do no that no one Id consider a good poster said that so what are you even talking about?

[MannyIsGod]

Furthermore I didn’t say you weren’t willing to trade anyone but asked you to clarify who you considered untradeable on this team since you yourself are the one who compared us making a deal to a contender moving a fringe all star who is also a great defender. There is no one on the team who you can compare to Holiday and we are not where the bucks are but you decided to make that comparison so don’t be surprised when people point out how nonsensical of a comparison you just made.

[Tyronn Lue]

Even if the current guys have no obvious upside, some still can function as a placeholder on your preferred playstyle moving forward. Like Collins is a 5 out center that can find cutters and run dribble handoffs. Julian is a big wing who can cut and spot up and provide rim detterance when Sochan is on POA. OKC did this with their center rotation before Chet their system is based on a 5 out center who can shoot they shuffled through Poku, JRE, Muscala, Roby, Jaylin, those guys have no obvious upside but those guys can be placeholders and there is zero cost on getting or cutting them. Now they are running their system for 3 years and there is zero friction when Chet comes in.

Your "zero cost" ignores the obvious cost of team progression, which Victor is tallying. Chet isn't Victor. Chet's maybe the 3rd option.

So much speculation on what Wemby is thinking and feeling and what the Spurs should or shouldn’t do. There are a few things more likely than not.

Spurs wanted time to evaluate Wemby and see how best to use him.

Spurs could have built a better team this year but likely would have potentially handcuffed themselves in years to come. End up with a more compe ive team now but not one built to a championship caliber.

The teams biggest asset outside of Wemby are the draft picks. Makes more sense to be one of the worst three teams than to be 10th worst or make the play in. This is one of the reasons I think Sochan was point guard early on.

San Antionio has never been a place free agents want to go. All the years competing for championships and free agents still weren’t banging down the door. Maybe things change with Wemby but if not you have to build with the draft and trades.

Not sure about the track record on the draft I. Terms of how we do versus everyone else. Biggest miss for me recently was Halliburton. Devin is a solid player so even with that we didn’t blow it. I do think the Spurs are great at developing their picks. Now living in Chicago the Bulls are terrible in this area.

Bottom line is at this point I’m not sure if there is anything the Spurs should have done differently during Wemby’s short tenure. I don’t recall a free agent over the summer that was really coveted.Again makes more sense to lose this year than try and win a few more games.

The choices weren't to go all in on talent vs what they did. There are a lot of in between options, like bringing in a veteran player at a lower cost than a prime guy to help provide some guidance for the entire team. You're right in saying SA isn't an attractive landing spot for big time free agents, but there are plenty of swing guys who would take a role in SA. The Spurs aren't interested. They appear to be all hat, no cattle when it comes to building a team. The talk is there, but even in Philly that "trust the process" mantra came with names like Butler and Harden. What process should Victor trust? The developmental league process?

[ambchang]

if we were to trade for trae in the offseason, say around the draft, if i understand correctly he wouldnt even be eligible to sign a super-max extension starting at 35% of the cap. intsead, he'd likely opt for a shorter extension at 30% so that he can be eligible for the big 35%er later

If the price is right the spurs would be stupid not to go for it. But then what is right? All of the Atlanta picks (no for me)? KJ plus fillers plus a few of the Atlanta picks plus the Chicago pick (sort of for me)? It’s hard to say. But to say Trae is the one and we will be competing with him and some slight upgrades to the roster? I don’t agree with that. At best Trae is a stepping stone and not the final major piece.

You want the ball in wembys hands. Not anyone else.

[ambchang]

Almost no one had the view that the Spurs had to trade for young so that goalpost you say is being moved is just a bull argument you made up. I would be ok with a young trade if the price is right and I think people are idiots if they dismiss a possible deal out of hand.

So many of you make bad faith arguments that misconstrue positions to make them seem outlandish and it’s just a stupid thing to do when the arguments are literally written down for all to see. I don’t know that there was no one who said we had to trade for Trae Young but I do no that no one Id consider a good poster said that so what are you even talking about?

No one made the argument we had to trade for Trae? Not sure if we are reading the same threads.

[ambchang]

Furthermore I didn’t say you weren’t willing to trade anyone but asked you to clarify who you considered untradeable on this team since you yourself are the one who compared us making a deal to a contender moving a fringe all star who is also a great defender. There is no one on the team who you can compare to Holiday and we are not where the bucks are but you decided to make that comparison so don’t be surprised when people point out how nonsensical of a comparison you just made.

Point wasn’t we have that trade in mind. What my point was a Trae wemby pairing isn’t the unstoppable force some in the forum is thinking it would be.

[Tyronn Lue]

It comes down to whether the Spurs think Victor is the franchise piece to build around. Maybe they don't. Maybe they were ready to go into longer term money saving mode when they got Victor and now have to or get off the pot. No idea. They don't seem to know either.

[spurraider21]

If the price is right the spurs would be stupid not to go for it. But then what is right? All of the Atlanta picks (no for me)? KJ plus fillers plus a few of the Atlanta picks plus the Chicago pick (sort of for me)? It’s hard to say. But to say Trae is the one and we will be competing with him and some slight upgrades to the roster? I don’t agree with that. At best Trae is a stepping stone and not the final major piece.

You want the ball in wembys hands. Not anyone else.

sure but you also want wemby to get the ball into his hands in favorable positions without having to do all the work and tiring himself out

[Mikesatx]

I would have liked to see a veteran guy brought just to be more compe ive. Especially at point guard. I’m assuming the number one objective is to build a championship caliber team for an extended period. If so bringing on that veteran or doing something in between might have provided more wins but hurt the chances of the objective. If the number one objective is to keep Wemby happy than I guess we do whatever that takes. Boils down to what he wants. Win now or win eventually but for a sustained period.

[TD 21]

That was on Khris back in the day. The demise of bucks had to do with khris falling off the cliff due to injuries. Not this year but over the last few years.

Jrue is strong defensively and pretty good offensively, players like that are not unicorn types but have to be developed. The idea of going after a flawed archetype in Trae, who are PGs who has never won a le (closest being AI getting to the finals) unless you count curry who was the best shooter in nba history and someone who has way higher efficiency, combined with another all time shooter in klay, is the best way to keep wemby and give him the best chance to ring is an odd approach.

Again, we are seeing Lillard with Giannis now, I’m not sure if they will blitz through the playoffs this year or over the next few years to win it alll, but it seems unlikely. They seemed to have gotten visibly worse than last year and it’s. It coincidental. I don’t think they will ring with Jrue in place either as the other pieces just got worse since they rung, but I’m quite certain they’d be a better team with Jrue instead of Lillard.

Now is Trae a massive upgrade over Tre? Of course he is! I’m not that blind. If we can get him for a reasonable price I’d say it would be odd not to take it. I am worried about his contract and that would limit upgrade opportunities at SF and the bench but having him starting will move Tre to the bench which would be a boost to the second unit. I also think Trae can make life much easier for Vassell and sochan. I also think Trae would be tradable down the line. But having all our draft picks would allow the spurs to find a good PG and SF in the upcoming drafts who they can mold into a Jrue type and a 3 and d wing man.

Middleton's injury definitely derailed their chance in '22, but again the Nuggets and Clippers were also derailed by injury and there's a half decade of evidence that indicates they labor in the half court offensively in the playoffs.

Lillard gives them a higher floor and lower ceiling which is fine because the steadier team they had wasn't winning another championship.

People like saying that, but how many of the elite small guards had a legit opportunity to win a championship? Most of their teams weren't true contenders, they had bad injury luck, they were miscast as the best/go-to player or a combination thereof.

So many are likely in for a rude awakening when they find out how difficult it'll be to essentially find a more dynamic White.

[Pauleta14]

So much speculation on what Wemby is thinking and feeling and what the Spurs should or shouldn’t do. There are a few things more likely than not.

Spurs wanted time to evaluate Wemby and see how best to use him.

Spurs could have built a better team this year but likely would have potentially handcuffed themselves in years to come. End up with a more compe ive team now but not one built to a championship caliber.

The teams biggest asset outside of Wemby are the draft picks. Makes more sense to be one of the worst three teams than to be 10th worst or make the play in. This is one of the reasons I think Sochan was point guard early on.

San Antionio has never been a place free agents want to go. All the years competing for championships and free agents still weren’t banging down the door. Maybe things change with Wemby but if not you have to build with the draft and trades.

Not sure about the track record on the draft I. Terms of how we do versus everyone else. Biggest miss for me recently was Halliburton. Devin is a solid player so even with that we didn’t blow it. I do think the Spurs are great at developing their picks. Now living in Chicago the Bulls are terrible in this area.

Bottom line is at this point I’m not sure if there is anything the Spurs should have done differently during Wemby’s short tenure. I don’t recall a free agent over the summer that was really coveted.Again makes more sense to lose this year than try and win a few more games.

There are PLENTY of things Spurs could’ve done a lot better mate…

I’d agree with u if the coming draft was talented or if the Spurs didn’t own a plethora of draft picks in coming years.

but the personnel, what PATFO seems to consider the core of the future … just sucks. There’s nobody aside Wemby that is worth keeping in this roster. None

yes Vassell included

no veterans might be the worst part of it, it confirms how PATFO think they’re smarter than anyone and there lack of humility.

pastly Spurs have been losing competent staff/coaches left and right for decades. It’s not an essay thing to find equivalent compétence and Spurs have drop considerably in terms of competence.

[Mikesatx]

I agree that the current roster outside of Wemby is expendable. I also think it’s tough to make decisions on how to build around a guy when you’re not quite sure what you have or how you want to use him. Seems to me that flexibility for now is very valuable. They should know now what they’ve got and how best to use him. The decisions made this draft/offseason will start to make the picture clearer for me.

Just curious, you mentioned plenty of things they could have done differently. What are your top two or three?

[ambchang]

sure but you also want wemby to get the ball into his hands in favorable positions without having to do all the work and tiring himself out

I think Tre actually did a decent job after he got back to the starting lineup. Not saying Tre is the answer long term, because he isn't, but I wouldn't mind having him mentoring a future high pick at PG who will be the one. If Tre is 6'4", I think he'd be the one, but too bad he isn't.

Middleton's injury definitely derailed their chance in '22, but again the Nuggets and Clippers were also derailed by injury and there's a half decade of evidence that indicates they labor in the half court offensively in the playoffs.

Lillard gives them a higher floor and lower ceiling which is fine because the steadier team they had wasn't winning another championship.

People like saying that, but how many of the elite small guards had a legit opportunity to win a championship? Most of their teams weren't true contenders, they had bad injury luck, they were miscast as the best/go-to player or a combination thereof.

So many are likely in for a rude awakening when they find out how difficult it'll be to essentially find a more dynamic White.

I don't doubt the Nuggets and Clippers injuries helped the Bucks, but the Clippers are injured every year, and the Nuggets weren't really all that ready back then. The Bucks played well, and I recalled the Suns being the favourites for that series. Jrue putting the clamps on CP0 and Booker at times really helped.

As for Lillard, I believe I posted when the trade happened that it is a down grade for the Bucks. Surprisingly I didn't get clowned much for that as I think most people saw the same things I did. Trae is similar to Lillard in game, and I would argue is the worse of the two players. Not saying Trae is a bad player, but I really fail to see how a ball dominant guard is someone we want for Wemby. There are some PGs out there who would work well with Wemby, not all of them attainable, but there are ones that would be great for the Spurs.

I would love Luka, Jamal Murray, Brunson, Jrue, (pipedreams), De'Aaron Fox, Derrick White, Cade. Quickley, Maxey, Nembhard (possible), but to a lesser extent Mike Conley (as a short term), Sexton, McConnell, Brogdon. They are not as sexy as Trae (most of them) but there are the players who can help upgrade the position without tying up our cap for a long time.

[TD 21]

I don't doubt the Nuggets and Clippers injuries helped the Bucks, but the Clippers are injured every year, and the Nuggets weren't really all that ready back then. The Bucks played well, and I recalled the Suns being the favourites for that series. Jrue putting the clamps on CP0 and Booker at times really helped.

As for Lillard, I believe I posted when the trade happened that it is a down grade for the Bucks. Surprisingly I didn't get clowned much for that as I think most people saw the same things I did. Trae is similar to Lillard in game, and I would argue is the worse of the two players. Not saying Trae is a bad player, but I really fail to see how a ball dominant guard is someone we want for Wemby. There are some PGs out there who would work well with Wemby, not all of them attainable, but there are ones that would be great for the Spurs.

I would love Luka, Jamal Murray, Brunson, Jrue, (pipedreams), De'Aaron Fox, Derrick White, Cade. Quickley, Maxey, Nembhard (possible), but to a lesser extent Mike Conley (as a short term), Sexton, McConnell, Brogdon. They are not as sexy as Trae (most of them) but there are the players who can help upgrade the position without tying up our cap for a long time.

The Nuggets were ready considering the state of the league then. They just weren't healthy enough to take advantage. Between Harden (he played but couldn't move) and Irving being injured and the 76ers melting down and bowing out to the Hawks, the path cleared. Then, they faced a small (poor matchup), superstar less Suns team.

Even Jokic needs Murray. The Spurs are going to need someone of at least that caliber offensively at some point. There seems to be this delusion that it'll just be easy to come by if they're patient, but they'll be hard pressed to find a better offensive talent than Young and again, the more dynamic version of White that anyone would want is a pipedream.