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Why do you think that's a caveat? The Spurs didn't have Vassell either in that game. For a horrible team, beating a playoff team down two players to their one is a quality win.
This logic only works if we were talking about a much better team. The Spurs haven't been able to close games against clubs having off nights, coming in flat, etc this year. These aren't the only times this has happened. People had no problem ting on the players when they lost games without Victor. There was no "It's okay guys they didn't have their best player." It was, "This team is full of scrubs with a horrible coach". Now they had three quality games against good compe ion, and the excuses come out.
It's not a fluke. They've played well in all three games without Wemby recently. It's possible to accept that without being insecure in what that means for Wemby. The issue is people are too caught up in narratives about Victor being the only NBA player on the team and would rather root against the guys figuring it out so they don't have to reconsider their opinion.
If the Suns had won a narrow game, the only thing that would change is the folks who are insecure about Wemby would breathe easier. It would still be a quality game just like the Sacramento game. No one is saying the team is better without Wemby or that he's not the best player, so no views would change in that regard. Those of us who are happy to see the remaining guys show life and can think past this petty to how the better guys play, the more easily they can be traded if need be. Only on ST is getting evidence your team's players aren't as bad as you thought a negative.
Why do you think that's a caveat? The Spurs didn't have Vassell either in that game. For a horrible team, beating a playoff team down two players to their one is a quality win.
perhaps some thought should be given to how much better the ball moved with Vassell out.
One thing I have noticed in the games without Wemby is that the offense is much more free flowing, the ball is moving all over the court (sometimes too much), and the offense is more balanced and unpredictable.
Obviously Wemby is our best player and he deserves as many touches as he can handle, but I feel like when he is in the game, it turns into a contest of "get the ball to Victor no matter what" even if it doesn't make sense.
His touches and looks aren't coming in the flow of the offense. Instead, he just posts up with help lingering and our guys try to throw a ty entry pass into traffic. It may be effective sometimes, but it also leads to a ton of turnovers and is otherwise way too predictable.
As Wemby continues to improve, I'm sure that is a weapon he will have in his arsenal but it just seems clunky to me right now, and kind of bogs down the flow of the offense.
I think the team should take the opportunity to evaluate guys in when they have a chance to play elevated roles. The NBA is not simply a matter of addition and subtraction, which is how the Spurs' supporting players could be playing better during stretches with Wemby while it still being true that he's their best player and the key to the roster as a whole taking a step forward. Though just to directly address your post, Vassell being in raises the AST% from 68 to 72.2 and pace from 99.8 to 101.7. I don't think saying Devin negatively affects ball movement is well supported.
And yet, spurs are waaaaay much better all year long with Wemby on the floor. When he doesn't play, whether the whole game or is on the bench, this team is much worth. If your theories were right, spurs should also play better when he's on the bench... They're not. and it's not 2-1 sample (Curry IS the Warriors btw this year. Remove him, it's a bottom team) that's gonna change that...
It's part of the reason why I've lost faith in Sean's ability to talk about the Spurs. He constantly paints a picture where throwing passes to Victor is this low-risk/high reward play that the other guys just need to get it into their heads to do. The reality is that the other teams have coaches and athletes too, and it's not as hard to disrupt entry passes as Wemby's catch radius implies. Throwing those passes to him is often a risky proposition and because of Wemby's inexperience, clean catches are not automatic buckets against defenses which know to bump him and dig for the ball. Part of the reality of Wemby having to learn to play center (because it's not natural to him) is him learning to do the things that free him and others up on offense, like setting good screens and rolling hard. He's made legit progress in that regard, but rather than that being the foundation of his paint touches, he still likes to cherry-pick and set early post-ups that require long passes. It would be nice for him to learn to do some things really well and branch out from there rather than trying to improve on everything at the same time.
Right, the Spurs are better because Wemby IS that impactful of a player, even when he isn't being utilized properly. Opponents are figuring out how to front him, send doubles, and keep him away from the basket and so far it seems like he (and the team) haven't adjusted.
Yes, he's still putting up like 20-10 with 6 blocks so it's not like they are shutting him down, but he is still having to grind and has also been turnover prone.
It will be great once we start getting some better talent around him, but I'd also am excited to see him learn how to get better looks and easier shots in motion. We can't just go back to the days of four-down where we toss him the ball and everyone stands around and watches.
You're letting your insecurity get in the way of reading what he said. He didn't say the Spurs were better without him, even offensively. He said the offense doesn't flow as well with Wemby. His talent more than overcomes that, especially defensively. Offensively, it's a push (on/off of -.2 in terms of ORtg). They shoot a little better with him on the court and assist a lot more, but they turn the ball over more.
If you even imply that the Spurs need to play better with Wemby and/or Wemby needs to play better, that will bring attackers out of the weeds. The Spurs are not any better with Wemby and should be. From there why would the natural thing to discuss not be why that would be the case? But Wemby sniffers aren't having it! That from (me) an early critic of Wemby and his high turnovers and lack of flow with the offense.
Now, did anyone notice how bad the refs were? Chapagnie gets tagged on the back on a 3 and no call. Wesley doesn't even touch Booker who kicks his leg out and we have to challenge the call, which would have been a crusher on our chances to win otherwise. Thank God for the challenge, back in the day calls like that just stood and we were left to just deal w/it.
We had folks who thought it made more sense to come up with conspiracies about everyone hating Wemby or being jealous of him to justify why the lob game wasn't successful. They seriously thought that was more reasonable than considering that a teenager (at the time) going up against NBA athletes consistently for the first time may not actually be that great of a lob threat or have the best read on whether he should get the ball in a given situation. They won't let him be a rookie.
And yes, the refs let the Suns back into the game with some blatant "makeup calls". Glad the Spurs still pulled it out in the end
Did the Spurs ever win a game with Timmy Dunkan out?
Or we watched the games and saw that Wemby is an excellent positioner and reciever of lobs, with great hands and being 7'4'.....
yeah, we rightly concluded the freeze outs and ty lobs were the problem.
Yet, it's pretty obvious that wasn't the case, and the "conclusion" was bull to try to support a series of assumptions that never had a solid base to begin with.
They were actually pretty famous for being able to win games against quality opponents even when all three of Tim, Tony and Manu sat out. Them getting those games was a routine part of the RRT. The difference then is that fans weren't so insecure and could just be happy with a win without freaking out that their star didn't play.
No.
Agree to disagree.
I think because of the hype around Wemby we’re seeing teams compete with us a lot harder with him on the floor than they did against us last season. No one took the Spurs seriously last year which is I think why we snuck out a few more wins. We saw that last night with Phoenix. The Suns were hyped when they played us the other night with Wemby. No Wemby and we were met with minimal resistance.
Meh this team holding Phoenix to 102 points when they had been historically bad defensively without Victor is absolutely a fluke.
That wasn't a team that needed to be purged around Tim, Manu, and Tony. This is a supporting cast Pop loved last year and expected to be able to win with this year and they have been trash. I don't want Wright and RC to be suckered into bringing these scrubs back again like they were last summer.
Well maybe we toned down the lob game to avoid injury also. But the more likely case is we just aren’t that good at it which includes both bad passers as well as an inconsistent rookie recipient of said passes. Also Wemby gets hacked a lot in those situations some games.
He won't admit it but Chinook thinks Chet should win ROY
Along with some All Pro votes for Tre, Chucky Vassell and Chucky Johnson?He won't admit it but Chinook thinks Chet should win ROY
Chinook is not a fan of Wemby. Dude never has anything positive to say about him. It’s always what Wemby needs to work on. How we need to look at the 3 games without Wemby that we won as some sort of introspection. The game is actually pretty easy to play with Wemby, Chinook just overcomplicates things for no ing reason. Dude literally said it’s hard to make an entry pass. Weird bc Manu and Tony made them all the time. It seemed to work out. Didn’t here nary a word from Chinook, oh Manu has to stop with that high risk entry pass.
Sean is from a time period where making a ing entry pass and feeding the big man was expected. So ofc he sees it as easy bc it is freaking easy. Just bc Tre Jones can’t do it doesn’t make it difficult. We have surrounded our big man with 3 people who can’t shoot the ball. And then complain when the ball doesn’t fly around. Like what’s the better shot? Sochan for 3? Champ? Or Wemby for an easy dunk.
Lobs are another ing easy pass. I was throwing lobs in middle school to my friends to finish. And by high school you just point up and throw the damn thing up. I’ve lost count how many point guards made their bread and butter throwing ing lobs but Chinook rather say that lobs are somehow difficult to throw and the “window” isn’t there for our guys. So somehow Kyrie and Luka can throw lobs to their big men and it works out. But not our players. Just no windows guys. It’s a difficult thing to throw lobs to a 7ft 4 athletic and long center. I mean the that is posted here is just wilding sometimes.
Also no Chinook that Wemby has stuff to work on but he’s the young one on the team. People say that Sochan and Vassell and Tre are young but Wemby is younger than all those mofos and you give them a way higher pass for being ty rather than Wemby for actually being good
Chinook isn't alone, John B is funny with his "Wemby needs to get over himself and learn to play with Tre and Sochan..."
The issue is not one of trying to be overly critical of Wemby it is simply about wanting to discus ways he and the team can all improve. Wemby having too many turnovers or the team not playing better overall with him are topics related to both how he and the team can improve and not as simply characterized as saying Wemby sucks or is not great already but rather simply wanting to discuss that path for improvement as we all want to see happen.
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