Serious Question: Has Vassell ever come up in the clutch?

[JPB]

To the point, I believe that probable absence of clutch/killer gene is one of the reasons that will keep Devin's ceiling as an elite role player and a 3rd or even 4th option on a contender.

And I do'nt see any real future in that Devin/Wemby combo, when Devin isn't a playmaker nor elite driver and is pretty bad at throwing lobs. I see his future in a contending spurs team as a pure shooting guard, next to a star PG. i don't believe you want him with the ball in his hands in the clutch, but rather as a spot up shooter with Wemby or your star PG (or swingman) making the plays...

[baseline bum]

I’ve brought this up in a few threads, but as Devin clanked an ill advised 28 footer in OT, it reminded me once again that I cannot think of a single instance where Devin has come up big in the clutch. I cannot think of a single time where he has made a game winning/tying/icing shot in his entire career. Even Keldon has a few of those.

The best I can think of is the play-in game against NO where DJM got into early Foul Trouble, Devin stepped up and hit 7 threes (notably, he didn’t make any 2pt FGs that game).

Looking at Devin’s clutch stats this season (however it is that the NBA defines that), he leads the team in clutch time minutes (112) but is 14-41 (34.1%) from the field, 6-23 from 3 (26.1%).

Should we be concerns that Devin lacks the clutch gene? Not only does he not make the big shots, his BBIQ also seems to drop by 50 points when it’s crunch time (evidences by some of the ill advised shots he takes).

This is my biggest reason that I’m actually not all that high on Devin and think we’d be best off cashing in on his potential this offseason and moving on.

I remember Devin hitting a pretty crazy scoop shot layup over Chet with 1:30 left in the OKC game February 29th but it was more the basket to seal the win vs say being one to decide it.

[The Truth #6]

I thought he hit clutch shots last year iirc. I thought he would be better this year in that regard but I don't think he's unclutch.

[MultiTroll]

A nice shot with the shot clock running down... in the first half of a game.

And the Jazz obviously tanking.

But the 1st half part is the clincher.

[MultiTroll]

Should we be concerns that Devin lacks the clutch gene? Not only does he not make the big shots, his BBIQ also seems to drop by 50 points when it’s crunch time (evidences by some of the ill advised shots he takes).

This is my biggest reason that I’m actually not all that high on Devin and think we’d be best off cashing in on his potential this offseason and moving on.

Chucking ballhoggy shot last night when Wemby had rolled to the FT line and was wide open was and is absolute b.s.
Don't wanna hear about how "young" or "inexperienced" Vassell is. That was pure selfish Meball.
Only caveat i can say is since he does not have a coach, perhaps if and when the Spurs do get a competent coach he can be taught / encouraged / ney threatened to pass to the wide open man with the 10Xs better shot options in the clutch.

#2 or #3 option to Wemby in the future? Looks like no effing way at this point.
While GNob and Parker may be far too high a bar for Robbin and Robbin status for Vassell, regardless both of them came up clutch a zillion times. As scott has noted, name even one time Vassell has. Even if you can find one, how many eggs has he laid in the clutch? Dozens.

[baseline bum]

And the Jazz obviously tanking.

But the 1st half part is the clincher.

I don't think so, they were playing their guys.

[Light]

I thought he hit clutch shots last year iirc. I thought he would be better this year in that regard but I don't think he's unclutch.

the game that comes to mind is the one against the Heat where he hit a couple of big shots that iced the game.

[Pauleta14]

Vassel’s struggle comes from his difficulty at creating a gap between him and the defender. He’s just not a great ball handler and ends up taking difficult shots which lowers his %

We’ve been saying all year long he needs a PG as much as Wemby

As for the option of trading him, it’s not an absurd one considering his coming salary and his attractiveness for potential teams we’d like to trade with.

It’s been 4 seasons already and he hasn’t shown any Allstar potential (a requirement to be part of a Big2 or Big3)

[MultiTroll]

I don't think so, they were playing their guys.

Eyeball test. Any time they got close, funny plays would happen.

If you look at where the Jazz are in the standings, they absolutely want to stay below Brooklyn. Can also catch and pass Memphis and Toronto, however unlikely.

[rascal]

Eyeball test. Any time they got close, funny plays would happen.

If you look at where the Jazz are in the standings, they absolutely want to stay below Brooklyn. Can also catch and pass Memphis and Toronto, however unlikely.

The Jazz fo has no desire to win games. They are on an 8 game losing streak.

[TD 21]

"Clutch" doesn't exist and is a term mostly used to mythologize certain individuals who have been or are cash cows for the league.

Of course Vassell, a secondary creator at heart (lacks a tight handle, explosive athleticism and overwhelming strength) that's been forced into a lead role, would struggle when defenses antennas are naturally up in "clutch time" (defined as within' 5 in the last 5 minutes).

Put him in his proper role, give him a large enough sample size and he'd most likely more or less progress to his mean.

[baseline bum]

Eyeball test. Any time they got close, funny plays would happen.

If you look at where the Jazz are in the standings, they absolutely want to stay below Brooklyn. Can also catch and pass Memphis and Toronto, however unlikely.

Players don't tank, they're trying to get paid. Front offices and occasionally coaches do, put players never have any incentive to.

[scott]

the game that comes to mind is the one against the Heat where he hit a couple of big shots that iced the game.

Thanks, I don't remember this one - but I definitely believe ya'll and this is good to hear.

[scott]

"Clutch" doesn't exist and is a term mostly used to mythologize certain individuals who have been or are cash cows for the league.

Of course Vassell, a secondary creator at heart (lacks a tight handle, explosive athleticism and overwhelming strength) that's been forced into a lead role, would struggle when defenses antennas are naturally up in "clutch time" (defined as within' 5 in the last 5 minutes).

Put him in his proper role, give him a large enough sample size and he'd most likely more or less progress to his mean.

This is the only part that I'm not sure I agree with. Some players elevate their game when the big moment arrives (Robert Horry), some shrivel up in the moment (James Harden). In the case of Big Shot Rob, the "big moment" came in the form of single plays to close out the game. For Harden, it's not only big individual moments but also big games in general. To Vassell's credit, the only "big game" of consequence he has ever played in (the Play-in game vs NOP), he game up big.

[z0sa]

To the point, I believe that probable absence of clutch/killer gene is one of the reasons that will keep Devin's ceiling as an elite role player and a 3rd or even 4th option on a contender.

And I do'nt see any real future in that Devin/Wemby combo, when Devin isn't a playmaker nor elite driver and is pretty bad at throwing lobs. I see his future in a contending spurs team as a pure shooting guard, next to a star PG. i don't believe you want him with the ball in his hands in the clutch, but rather as a spot up shooter with Wemby or your star PG (or swingman) making the plays...

+1

Vassell should be a guy who can drop 30 on any given night with basically no dribbles. That role's definitely not #2 on a contender but it might be a pretty good #3.

[TDMVPDPOY]

i dont believe in clutch, if u that good, ur team shouldnt be playing from behind to rely on a last shot win, u hit it..they call you clutch, u miss it they call you a scrub

td never in his life time rely on situations like that to pull out a miracle win cause his to busy winning games at a 71%, they dont call him clutch, they call him a winner...

[JeffDuncan]

…
Should we be [concerned] that Devin lacks the clutch gene? …

I’d say the short answer is, no. The reason being, Vassell isn’t the team’s #1 player. It’s like wondering if Reaves is clutch, when he’s playing with LeBron late in a Fakers game. It would be usual to focus on Reaves.

Of course anything is fair in a basketball discussion. No problem, as far as that goes. But is this the correct focus?

As far as him clanking a 28-footer in OT, the question it raises for me, is the team’s coaching clutch? Why does that situation even arise?

This is my biggest reason that I’m actually not all that high on Devin and think we’d be best off cashing in on his potential this offseason and moving on.

With all the problems the team has, it would be absurd to actively shop Vassell. He’s a 20 ppg shooting guard, within half a point, and he has some respectable defensive ability (when the coaches are doing their job.) Replacing Vassell has got to be way way down on the priority list.

[Light]

Thanks, I don't remember this one - but I definitely believe ya'll and this is good to hear.

This is the game I was thinking of. First possession comes at the 8:11 mark where he extends the lead. He then hits the go-ahead shot on the next possession. It's not quite the buzzer beater or last possession situations he's come up short in, so I'd still like to see him be better in those moments.

[LeBowen]

The biggest issue for Devin is that his archetype is way too common in the NBA which lowers his value by a lot.

6'5 guard with average athleticism and subpar playmaking? Yeah, he's got the scoring fundamentals down and is becoming a great 3pt shooter, but is he someone worth 30% of the cap?
He's a good player, will probably end up as one of those players who gets his without most people noticing it, but that's just not enough for someone who's also not that great of a defender. He's solid, but right now the only skills he excels at are mid-range and 3pt shooting. He can't even get to the line.

In my subjective opinion, not good enough.
Yes, he's not a finished product and can get better, but if he can't impose himself on singificantly worse offensive players like Jeremy and Tre, I don't think he'll ever be able to do it when we get an actual playoff roster.

If only Devin got a contract similar to Keldon's, he'd definitely be worth keeeping, but for me he's not worth 30M a year.
Scoring 20, even 25 a game isn't good enough if you don't do anything else as a guard, especially if you're not the decisive factor in the clutch in most games.

[scott]

Curiosity got the better of me, so I went and looked at the game logs of close games the Spurs have played (which I defined as a final margin of less than 8 points) and looked specifically at the last 2:00 and then last 1:00 of play in both the 4Q and OT.

This is imperfect because Devin definitely could have impacted the game in some non-boxscore way that doesn't show up in the play-by-play, but that's the best I can do without watching all these games again

Date	Score	Vassell From 2:00 to 1:01	Vassell Last 1 Min
10/25	DAL 126 @SA 119	Devin does not appear in the play-by-play (DNA)	Devin 27-foot 3PA blocked by Grant Williams (Down 7 with 17 seconds)
10/27	@SA 126 HOU 122 (OT)	DNA Reg / DNA OT	DNA Reg / Devin Misses 2 FT with 21.1 to play in OT up 4
10/31	SA 115 @PHX 114	1:38 Devin DREB down 3 1:23 Devin misses 10-foot shot down 3	22.1 Devin DREB down 3 8.1 Devin misses 25-foot 3PA down 3
11/5	TOR 123 @SA 116 (OT)	DNP	DNP
11/10	MIN 117 @SA 110	1:25 Devin out of bounds lost ball TO down 8 1:21 Devin personal take foul down 8 1:04 Devin makes 3 FTs	DNA
11/12	MIA 118 @SA 113	1:06 Devin misses 11-foot shot down 4	DNA
11/17	SAC 129 @SA 120	DNP	DNP
11/22	LAC 109 @SA 102	DNP	DNP
11/24	@GS 118 SA 112	1:31 Devin makes 28-foot 3PA to cut lead to 8	27.2 Devin personal foul down 4 13.1 Devin personal foul down 4
11/30	ATL 137 SA 135	DNP	DNP
12/6	@MIN 102 SA 94	1:20 Devin makes 23-ft 3PA to cut lead to 8	31.0 Devin DREB down 8
12/13	LAL 122 @SA 119	DNA	DNA (I think Branham was in the game for Devin the last two minutes based on the play-by-play, I don't remember if Devin got hurt in this game?)
12/29	@POR 134 SA 128	DNA	56.0 Devin makes 32-ft 3PA to cut lead to 10 48.1 Devin take foul 9.2 Devin misses 25-ft 3PA down 7
1/2	@MEM 106 SA 98	1:18 Devin DREB down 10	DNA
1/4	MIL 125 @SA 121	DNA	22.1 Devin DREB down 3
1/7	@CLE 117 SA 115	1:07 Devin DREB down 9	DNA
2/22	@SAC 127 SA 122	DNA	14.0 Devin Take Foul down 3 (Note, Devin made a 3 at 2:12 to put us up by 4)
2/23	@LAL 123 SA 118	DNA	DNA Note: this game not as close as final score indicates. We had Mamu and Blake in at the end of the game.
3/7	@SAC 131 SA 129	1:55 Devin out of bounds bad pass TO up 1	0.2 Devin misses 28-ft 3PA down 2. This was the play where it appeared Wemby was open on a cut to the basket, but it's not clear whether there was time to make the pass. 0.2 is when Sochan rebounded Devin's shot.
3/12	@HOU 103 SA 101	1:31 Devin makes 26-foot 3PA to put us down 4	8.2 Devin take foul down 1 3.1 Devin makes 1 of 2 FT to put us down 2 (he missed second FT on purpose)
3/17	@SA 122 BKY 115 (OT)	DNA reg 1:33 OT Devin misses 25-ft 3PA down 1	29.2 Devin misses 25-ft 3 up 3 in reg 38,0 OT Devin assists Wemby ally oop to put us up 1
3/19	DAL 113 @SA 107	1:07 Devin makes layup to cut lead to 3	DNA
3/22	MEM 99 @SA 97	DNA	42.1 Devin misses 26-ft 3PA down 4 24.1 Devin makes 23-ft 3PA to cut lead to 3
3/25	@SA 104 PHX 102	DNA	56.1 Devin misses 25-ft 3PA up 1
3/27	SA 118 @UTA 111	DNA	3.2 Devin DREB up 6 3.2 Devin makes 1 of 2 FT to increase lead to 7
3/29	@SA 130 NYK 126 (OT)	1:29 Devin assists Wemby ally oop to tie game in 4th DNA in OT	DNA in 4th 25.0 OT - Devin Misses 24-foot step back 3PA up 2

Couple of observation here:

• when Devin takes shots at the end of games they are almost always 3PA.
• to his semi-credit, a lot of those missed 3PA were in desperation time
• Devin's name appears a lot less than Keldon's as I went through this. Not sure how I feel about that
• There are a few 3PA (3 specifically in my mind) that were questionable decisions (and they all missed). It's a biased POV, but those stand out most in my memory bank.
• His 3 with 24 seconds to go against MEM to cut it to 3 is probably the biggest shot he's made this season... which isn't really saying much.

[Seventyniner]

The biggest issue for Devin is that his archetype is way too common in the NBA which lowers his value by a lot.

6'5 guard with average athleticism and subpar playmaking? Yeah, he's got the scoring fundamentals down and is becoming a great 3pt shooter, but is he someone worth 30% of the cap?

Vassell's salary of $29.3M next year will be around 21% of the $141M salary cap, if that changes your view as to his worth.

[exstatic]

The biggest issue for Devin is that his archetype is way too common in the NBA which lowers his value by a lot.

6'5 guard with average athleticism and subpar playmaking? Yeah, he's got the scoring fundamentals down and is becoming a great 3pt shooter, but is he someone worth 30% of the cap?
He's a good player, will probably end up as one of those players who gets his without most people noticing it, but that's just not enough for someone who's also not that great of a defender. He's solid, but right now the only skills he excels at are mid-range and 3pt shooting. He can't even get to the line.

In my subjective opinion, not good enough.
Yes, he's not a finished product and can get better, but if he can't impose himself on singificantly worse offensive players like Jeremy and Tre, I don't think he'll ever be able to do it when we get an actual playoff roster.

If only Devin got a contract similar to Keldon's, he'd definitely be worth keeeping, but for me he's not worth 30M a year.
Scoring 20, even 25 a game isn't good enough if you don't do anything else as a guard, especially if you're not the decisive factor in the clutch in most games.

$30M isn’t 30% of the cap ($135M) fool, (22.2%) and the contract decreases as it goes. This is the most expensive year at $29.7, and as the cap increases annually, his contract becomes a smaller and smaller percentage.

[scott]

i dont believe in clutch, if u that good, ur team shouldnt be playing from behind to rely on a last shot win, u hit it..they call you clutch, u miss it they call you a scrub

td never in his life time rely on situations like that to pull out a miracle win cause his to busy winning games at a 71%, they dont call him clutch, they call him a winner...

As I posted earlier, even in years when the Spurs were championship caliber (or champions), about 35-45% of their games were still "clutch" games (meaning a 5-point game with less than 5 minutes to play). And we can post lots of highlights of Timmy (or Manu, or Tony, or Sean, or Horry, or lots of other players) hitting big shots. If you're just going to rely on the games you win by 10+ and concede the rest, you're going to lose a lot more games.

[scott]

$30M isn’t 30% of the cap ($135M) fool, (22.2%) and the contract decreases as it goes. This is the most expensive year at $29.7, and as the cap increases annually, his contract becomes a smaller and smaller percentage.

One small correction, NEXT year is the most expensive year. His extension hasn't kicked in yet, he is still on his rookie deal this season.

[scott]

This is the game I was thinking of. First possession comes at the 8:11 mark where he extends the lead. He then hits the go-ahead shot on the next possession. It's not quite the buzzer beater or last possession situations he's come up short in, so I'd still like to see him be better in those moments.

Thanks for this. This is definitely some the killer energy from Devin that I want to see, definitely better than what we've seen this season - but that could just be a function of the opportunities Devin has had this season (though he's not really risen to the occasion when he has had this this year)