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He'd be such a get, no Topic or Dilly or some other stupid teenager
his jumper/release has been so smooth this year
He'd be such a get, no Topic or Dilly or some other stupid teenager
I feel like I've made my stance abundantly clear in multiple threads, so I won't spend too much time on it now. In short, the Spurs being patient has nothing to do with finding the right co-star for Wemby. It's because there are no co-stars for Wemby that can alter the team's window besides a handful of top vets like Durant, James, Curry, Leonard and maybe Butler (this is excluding the top-five players who aren't going to be traded). Young, Mitc or whoever else is not going to do anything until Victor becomes a championship centerpiece, and that will take years. Once he's there, the specific differences between those players won't matter. It's like how James won les with a bunch of different co-stars. They have the time to draft players they like and develop them, because Victor's window isn't open yet. Once that changes, then they can make a trade for the co-star, if one is even necessary at that point.
Very little matters besides Victor leveling up. There's basically zero reason to hand-wring about the team during this stretch. There are players who I think could help him do that, but changing the culture of the Spurs, mentoring Wemby are not the same as winning games or having the highest team ratings in 2K. Young, Mitc and Markkanen are basically the exact wrong guys for the team to bring in my mind. If the question is "If not them, who?" then the answer is "Basically anyone else." Besides those aforementioned stars, I would be really interested in Khris Middleton and Paul George, less interested in Gordon Hayward, Robert Covington, Klay Thompson, DeMar DeRozan and Jerami Grant, and even less interested in James Harden, Tobias Harris and D'Angelo Russell. At the same time, drafting and developing players remains a high priority. As I've mentioned before, my ideal rotation (assuming no one major gets cut or traded) would look like this:
First-Round PG, Jones, Wesley
Vassell, Branham, Champagnie
Big Money Vet Wing, Johnson, First-Round Wing
Sochan, RE-Level Vet Defensive Forward, Developmental Forward
Wembanyama, Collins, Min-Level Vet Center
There are other combinations that I think make sense, or course, but paying a bunch of assets and salary space for a PG isn't that high on my personal list.
Paraplegia? Or "waiting"? You have to be aggressive in a League this compe ive. This is why the fans tune in. The draft is about the only way to "luck" into being decent, not even good. We've gotten plenty of that luck. Time to throw patience to the wayside and make big decisions. That doesn't necessarily mean a trade even, though I'd strongly prefer some kind of move being made, if only for the sake of momentum. But if we are posting a similar record by the ASB of next season, for instance, that also means it's time to begin heavily weighing the idea that waiting is no longer a viable choice.
It's up to PATFO whether they really want to roll with basically the same club+a high draft pick next season. If we suck, it'll mean our boys haven't stepped up - therefore their stock in trade negotiations will also be at an all-time low. Can we take that risk? What does PATFO see that we can't, I guess, is really what I'm asking.
Anyway, that limits our options. If we want to talk fantasy, yeah, sure, someone like Giannis would be fantastic. Wemby's got a lot of years left, basketball gods willing. Let Giannis get his. It's like KD going to GS. Do you pass on those years of being perhaps the most dominant team ever over a single player's legacy? No. As a fan, you take everyone of those you can get.
What's the reasoning behind thinking guys like Mitc and Markannen are "the exact wrong players to bring", but accepting a DeMar DeRozan?
I think this is a perfectly sound approach based entirely upon the wrong premise, which is that Wemby will take a number of years before he is ready to be a championship centerpiece. What’s we’ve seen, however, is that Wemby’s rate of development is significantly greater than any other player before him. If he were on a normal development trajectory, then this approach would make a ton of sense. But if you believe he is on an accelerated developmental trajectory then the team building around him should be accelerated commensurately.
I base my team building philosophy around the idea that Year 3 Wemby will be a championship centerpiece. If that is true, you should start putting some of the most key elements around him in Year 2, to allow proper time for them to gel.
Just my $0.02.
Chinook Wemby is far more advanced than any other rookie before him. Woj said he might be the best player on both ends by year 3. He will honestly be the best defender next year. It's also about getting him playoff experience, because once he is an mvp type player, he already has gone through the playoff experience. Timmy did the first two seasons. TD even missed a game winner to the jazz if I recall.
He’s actually the best defender right now. Don’t confuse the media driven award with the reality.
And to draft who, and do what? find better players that the ones you named in the draft? You have statistically much, much less chances to achieve that, but yet a generational talent in your roster waiting for (real) help, not watching rookies developed for 4 years only to become role players or 3rd stringers.
Or just trusting the "system" and 75 y.o Pop to fabricate stars? None of the current guys on the roster are even 3rd options. Can the spurs, who have been poorly drafting these last few years, really build throught the draft to find real game changers these next 2-3 years?
Who's gonna be that in this year's draft? Or just waiting another year or two just praying a Flagg or Cooper lands here and actually becomes a star, which remains to be proven (Flagg has already lost credit in many scouts eyes)...
And is Vic really ready to spend the next 2-3 years at the bottom of the league? Even adding a couple of vets with the bunch of picks spurs have the next few years wouldn't make the spurs a PO team.
Yeah, it really seems Chinnok doesn't seem to understand Wemby is special in such a way that you can't just play the waiting game, almost to a philosophical or esoterical point. theres IS urgency and even responsability to give Wemby's help rather quickly... There' no way, you can just add some more rookies to that roster and see wEmby lost in that mess for a few more years while he starts posting quadruple double as the best defenser in the league.
That's just an insult to him and basketball, spurs have make the POs and Wemby start to play in meaningfull games next year. Chinook also relies son the assumption that spurs can just "pick the guys they like" and necessarily make them valuable players in a contending spurs teams of good trade assets... Recent experience showed that's really not a given.
I think our summer will look like Houston’s last year, except the vets won’t be knuckle heads. Don’t see a big splash trade just yet, though. Maybe one or two small ones.
This is spot on. Wemby is amazing on D, but clearly not a finished product by any means on offense. I do think “his window” will open sooner than for most, but I agree he hasn’t opened it yet. That’s a scary thought for the rest of the league.
It’s amazing how people who’ve watched wemby for the past year, from just his first preseason game to where he is now, still think he’s years away from being a superstar. His progress in under a season’s time, at 19/20 years old is something we’ve never seen before.
This guy is already a top 15 player in the league. He might be all NBA first team level NEXT YEAR. That’s not to say the Spurs should just rush in and throw all of their assets to acquire a vet, but the timeline we’re dealing with here is not that of a typical rookie.
Absolutely !
Some people here just can't think out of the box.
Wemby is ALREADY a championship centerpiece, guys. But you can't see it because it is unprecedented, and as your ability to think rely mostly on comparaisons and past experience, when there is none you are lost.
wemby's sidekick might be in the 9th grade right now.
Parker didn't come until the 2001 draft, Manu in 2002-03.
We'll probably need to fight through a few Derek Andersons and Samaki Walkers for the next 3 years or so.
To me, the "Wemby's superman and thus rules don't apply" argument is exactly what every other team that found itself in this situation talked themselves into. "Lebron is superman", "Davis is superman" "Zion is superman" "Doncic is superman". I know, I know, "But Wemby is super-duperman, so this time the logic really does hold." Or maybe the fact that even GOAT candidates take years to develop into true championship centerpieces should matter more to folks than it does.
This is why I feel like I have to point out the places Wemby has to grow, to the point that it bothers a lot of posters. It's not that I like talking so much about it. But there's a massive disconnect between where Wemby is and where will be when he's a championship centerpiece. It is true that in some ways, he's overshooting the mark. Most championship centerpieces aren't serious DPOY candidates, for example. But in the fundamental aspects players need when locking into four series against good teams, it's not there. Teams can gameplan against him. There are players he just can't handle who play his position. His endurance and pacing aren't there. , his actual technique on both ends needs a ton of work but are being covered up by his amazing physical profile. These are things that are expected with his age, so pointing them out isn't criticism. When he's actually ready, those things will be solved. But you can't handwave them the way posters want to or just blame them on someone else.
As I've said before, not being willing to see Wemby where he is doesn't mean one "supports him more". It's really important for the Spurs to accurately gauge Wemby's progress and to build for who he is rather than for who they want him to be. A team can go too fast, especially when you're talking about making big suboptimal moves in an attempt to move as fast as possible. The 2024 off-season isn't a particularly good time to make a move. The team doesn't have cap space, and free agency doesn't look great. Most of the team's draft picks are of nebulous value. It's not clear how many pieces are needed or even which ones.
People want to subs ute their pessimism for the Spurs' ability to build a team for actual strategy. The team needs to do what they think is best, because otherwise they're just stabbing in the dark. Maybe Wright and RC need to be fired, but if they're going to be in charge, they need to execute their vision, and that can totally involve drafting players that need years to develop like Parker did. That's not the same thing as drafting a guy like Pokusevski who are only potential with no substance. But there are plenty of players at the top of the draft who offer things the team needs, and considering the financial situation the team is in, they don't have the money to address all of their holes with high-quality vets anyway. It would be best to approach this off-season with a mix of vets and young players, with the vets helping to create a system in which the young guys who do get drafted and slotted into the rotation have the support they need to help right away.
where do you guys get this tbh
Because they don't change the window but are expensive (both in terms of assets and long-term commitment). It's okay to be expensive if you open up a window like that group with Lebron does. You're basically having Wemby play the Wade role to their Shaq. Otherwise, what they need is a vet who can help build a winning culture for Wemby and to a lesser extent Vassell. Ideally, such a player would take some of the pressure off Vassell and the new PG to make plays for the rest of the team while adding a defensive presence. That's why Durant is at the top of my wish list, then Butler. In the next tier, Middleton is basically the perfect guy for a Spurs team that is still working its way toward being a contender, with Paul George requiring too much sacrifice to be ideal along with being too injury-prone. Then you start basically having to miss out on certain qualities which is how you run into guys like Hayward and DeRozan, who check some boxes and are much more affordable but who leave some boxes unchecked and would hopefully only be around for a short period of time.
The thing about it is that we are in a position to both be patient and to surround him with pieces. If Spurstalk really believe drafting is the right way to go in order to support Wemby then we don't really need the boatload of picks that we have. Just continue to develop Branham, Vassell, KJ, Sochan, Wesley etc. We can add value vets to surround Wemby that won't make us a le contender in anyway shape or form, but would give the Spurs real playoff experience. And chinooks opinion aside that playoff experience doesn't matter to Wemby, it would be nice for Wemby to get playoff experience. So by the time we are ready to "win" with him as the focal point, he will be plenty battle tested. The sooner Wemby is in the playoffs the better it is for him in the long run.
Now where I am in agreement with Chinook is they type of vets we need. I am hardcore hoping that the Bucks lose in round 1, or the Clippers, or even the Warriors dismantle their core. I really want one of PG13, Middleton, or Klay. PG13 would fit seamlessly on our team and is a great mentor to younger players. Klay and Middleton bring a type of professionalism that our players have no idea about. They turn the kids into serious pros. You can't have Pop teach that to our kids. It has to come from other proven players, ideally players they look up to.
But the Spurs can draft young prospects like Dilly or Sheppard or Topic or Risacher or whomever and still surround Wemby with real vets. To me, us spending our capspace like the Rockets did is really the best route to go. The Rockets didn't go longterm and screw up their future. FVV is on a 2 year deal. Brooks on a 3 year deal. Offering PG13 3 years 120 or, absorbing Middleton's contract, or even giving Klay 3 years 100 million isn't the worst thing in the world for us.
Trae and Garland are extremely overrated considering the hype they are getting on here.
Spurs shouldn't pursue either unless they can be had for 30 cents on the dollar of their perceived value IMO.
Both would be a massive mistake if Spurs had to pay 4 high end 1sts and pay near max money on the cap.
Hawks have been doing just fine without Tre the past 6 weeks, I wonder why that is.
Trae fills the arena…..
Wemby needs a mid range game, before even thinking about playoffs.
The hype was wrong 9 times so it has to be wrong the 10th time..
Fact is even GOATs always take years to develop so it will never change til the end of times...
Unexpected nether happens in my life cause past always repeat itself, blah blah blah, so boring !
Fact is that Wemby, with all his undeniable flaws, in a season that is nothing but a big training/experimenting session, playing with headless ducks who can't make a lob or a decent entry pass close to the rim or even play organised defense, is already a top 15/20 player and the best defender in the league. Where in the past have you seen that already so you can tell that it will repeat itself ?
This team is two pretty good role players in their prime, and (the difficult part) a corrective patch for Sochan brain, shy of competing for a place in conference finals.
Wtf? Wemby is like the last person to need a midrange game. Where do you people come up with this stuff?
Hahahahaha….
find players who can throw lobs- accurate lobs
find players who can shoot accurately- simple 3 point shooters
(currently- no one on the spurs ever learned these two basic things)
then you can worry about dream team pairings…
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