Be Patient, But For Who?

[KobesAchilles]

TBH, anyone will get undeserved wins next year off of teams that are Pooping for Cooper. If the bottom 10 teams are split evenly between EC and WC, you’ll get 10 games against the east and 18-20 games against the west where teams are actively trying to lose. You’ll likely pick up 25 wins just from tankers. There are 19 more teams for like 54 more games, so if you just average 1 win each, that puts you at 44 wins.

Besides Portland, who in the West is tanking?

[ambchang]

I think people are just being unrealistic in their expectations of wemby at 20 years old. All this talk about him being the best player in the league by year three and this should be leading a team to les.

Lebron became, arguably, the best player in the league around 2008, his year 5. He didn’t win a le until 2012, his year 9.

Jordan became the best player in the league in about 1988, his year 4, and then got the ring in year 7, 1991.

Two points. These two goats didn’t become champions until a few years after they get in the conversations as the best in the league. The reason is because the front office had to find the right pieces for them once they got into their final dominant form (in Lebrons case he found it himself). The other is that they took a few years to win a ring, so to think that wemby to start winning a ring in year 3 is some mighty high expectation bordering on unrealistic.

Unlike Duncan, magic and bird, wemby didn’t get drafted onto a good team. He’s more like jordan and lebron who got drafted onto bad teams. It will take a few more than three years for the spurs to become a le team. The only person I think who got a ring shortly after he got drafted on a bad team was Kareem with the bucks, and that’s because they got the big O, who fell off the map due to age that the bucks sucked for years until Kareem demanded a trade.

[DAF86]

I think people are just being unrealistic in their expectations of wemby at 20 years old. All this talk about him being the best player in the league by year three and this should be leading a team to les.

Lebron became, arguably, the best player in the league around 2008, his year 5. He didn’t win a le until 2012, his year 9.

Jordan became the best player in the league in about 1988, his year 4, and then got the ring in year 7, 1991.

Two points. These two goats didn’t become champions until a few years after they get in the conversations as the best in the league. The reason is because the front office had to find the right pieces for them once they got into their final dominant form (in Lebrons case he found it himself). The other is that they took a few years to win a ring, so to think that wemby to start winning a ring in year 3 is some mighty high expectation bordering on unrealistic.

Unlike Duncan, magic and bird, wemby didn’t get drafted onto a good team. He’s more like jordan and lebron who got drafted onto bad teams. It will take a few more than three years for the spurs to become a le team. The only person I think who got a ring shortly after he got drafted on a bad team was Kareem with the bucks, and that’s because they got the big O, who fell off the map due to age that the bucks sucked for years until Kareem demanded a trade.

Lebron rang in year 9, Jordan in year 7, Shaq by year 8, Giannis in year 9, Jokic in year 9, Curry by year 6, Durant by year 10, Doncic is in year 7 and no ring in sight, unless they win 4 series without home court advantage. Those are the best players I've seen in my lifetime (outside of Timmy and Kobe that won it early because they were drafted into good teams). Spurs fans are really tripping with Wemby having to contend by year 3.

[spursparker9]

True but hopefully Wemby can remain calm after seeing Chet won multiple rings with OKC first.

[ambchang]

True but hopefully Wemby can remain calm after seeing Chet won multiple rings with OKC first.

OKC looks good, but we have all seen promising young cores came back with nothing. The 80s bucks, the hawks, the 80s Mavs, the rockets (the hakeem b2b was totally overhauled of the twin towers version), the jailblazers, the Webber kings, SSOL, the durant Westbrook harden ibaka core.

A couple of years ago the grizzlies were going to be the next great thing. OKC looks good now, but there are still som holes to fill and the le is not as easy to get as people think it is.

[JPB]

Lebron rang in year 9, Jordan in year 7, Shaq by year 8, Giannis in year 9, Jokic in year 9, Curry by year 6, Durant by year 10, Doncic is in year 7 and no ring in sight, unless they win 4 series without home court advantage. Those are the best players I've seen in my lifetime (outside of Timmy and Kobe that won it early because they were drafted into good teams). Spurs fans are really tripping with Wemby having to contend by year 3.

Show me anyone here who is "really tripping with Wemby having to contend by year 3? Anyone, just one person who said that?

[VBM]

Lebron rang in year 9, Jordan in year 7, Shaq by year 8, Giannis in year 9, Jokic in year 9, Curry by year 6, Durant by year 10, Doncic is in year 7 and no ring in sight, unless they win 4 series without home court advantage. Those are the best players I've seen in my lifetime (outside of Timmy and Kobe that won it early because they were drafted into good teams). Spurs fans are really tripping with Wemby having to contend by year 3.

Bron - won a playoff series and was a game away from the ECF in year 3

Jordan - made the playoffs every year until he became a Wizard, won first playoff series in year 4

Shaq - playoffs in year 2, went to the finals in year 3

Giannis - playoffs year 2, first playoff series win year 6

Jokic - playoffs year 5, game away from WCF

Curry - playoffs year 4, first series win

Durant - playoffs year 3, first series win year 4

Doncic - playoffs year 2, first series win year 4

Just for reference

[JPB]

I think people are just being unrealistic in their expectations of wemby at 20 years old. All this talk about him being the best player in the league by year three and this should be leading a team to les.

Lebron became, arguably, the best player in the league around 2008, his year 5. He didn’t win a le until 2012, his year 9.

Jordan became the best player in the league in about 1988, his year 4, and then got the ring in year 7, 1991.

Two points. These two goats didn’t become champions until a few years after they get in the conversations as the best in the league. The reason is because the front office had to find the right pieces for them once they got into their final dominant form (in Lebrons case he found it himself). The other is that they took a few years to win a ring, so to think that wemby to start winning a ring in year 3 is some mighty high expectation bordering on unrealistic.

Unlike Duncan, magic and bird, wemby didn’t get drafted onto a good team. He’s more like jordan and lebron who got drafted onto bad teams. It will take a few more than three years for the spurs to become a le team. The only person I think who got a ring shortly after he got drafted on a bad team was Kareem with the bucks, and that’s because they got the big O, who fell off the map due to age that the bucks sucked for years until Kareem demanded a trade.

Again, show me anyone here who expects Wemby to contend in year 3 ? Now can Wemby be the best player in the league in year 3? Yup, He could be in the MVP convo next year already. As pundits said, it took Victor half a season what takes other players 5 years to improve like he did.

Anyway, all your comparisons with GOAT players who played or stopped playing 20 years ago are pointless, specially in today's much more offensive NBA. We have NEVER seen somebody like Wemby in the NBA. Never. He's an alien.

- How many of the guys you named, were in the convo for defensive player of the year in their rookie season? Lebron or Bird never were once in their career, Wemby might be just that for the NEXT 12 YEARS IN A ROW.

- How many posted 5x5 in their rookie season? Only 13 players ( or so) had a 5x5 IN HISTORY. From all the players you named, only Olajuwon did. Jordan, Bird, Duncan, Lebron NEVER HAD ONE IN THEIR ENTIRE CAREER... WEMBY HAD ONE AND ALMOST BACK TO BACK 5x5 IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON....

Victor could post several quadruple doubles by next season already and has broken bunches ALL NBA HISTORY records (not just rookie records) in his rookie season.

We have never seen a player who can dominate and intimidate on both sides of the floor like that. Never. And bringing 20 years old comparisons is pointless, it's not becasue it happened like that with former GOATs that it will with Victor.

[MultiTroll]

We have NEVER seen somebody like Wemby in the NBA. Never. He's an alien.

All done with an alcoholic bird brain hindering him via his strategies and roster.

Worth mentioning.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs aren't getting anyone at 30 cents a dollar of their perceived value, lol.

No ?

Which is why it won't happen if the Spurs are smart.

Trae and Garland are all highlights and volume scoring while being some of the biggest liabilities on D. The stuff that isn't conducive to winning.

[MaNu4Tres]

Spurs should wait for Giannis or Luka.

However, if they can hit 1 or 2 home runs in the next 2 drafts that could be the difference to put the Spurs over the top in the near future as Wemby, Dev, Jeremy keep improving.

It's a year to year evaluation, but as it sits now, it would be beyond impatient and stupid to get desperate for fools gold All Stars in Trae and Garland.

[VBM]

Spurs should wait for Giannis or Luka.

However, if they can hit 1 or 2 home runs in the next 2 drafts that could be the difference to put the Spurs over the top in the near future as Wemby, Dev, Jeremy keep improving.

It's a year to year evaluation, but as it sits now, it would be beyond impatient and stupid to get desperate for fools gold All Stars in Trae and Garland.

If Luka bolts Dallas, you'd have to think it's to team up with Jokic.

[scott]

Show me anyone here who is "really tripping with Wemby having to contend by year 3? Anyone, just one person who said that?

My guess is the closest anyone will come will be when I said this:

I think there is a strong possibility that Year 3 Wemby is ready to lead a le team. So much so that this is the outcome I'd be willing to bet on if I were the GM, and I'd build the team around this premise. If it ends up being Year 4 Wemby instead... that really doesn't change much. If it is Year 5 Wemby who is finally ready, then I've probably misgauged things a little bit but that is still okay because the team you built for Year 3 Wemby is probably largely still in tact and applicable to Year 5*. I disagree with the notion that it's better to be late than early (in terms of the team building), because if you are early - you can still adjust. But if you are late, you've missed an opportunity. If Year 3 Wemby is that Championship Centerpiece, but you've surrounded him with a non-championship caliber supporting cast, you've done him and the franchise a disservice. There is no recapturing that after the fact.

But there is a pretty distinct difference between my argument and that idea that Wemby is expected to, or "has to" contend by Year 3. That isn't my expectation of Wemby, but rather it's my feeling of what he is capable of, and one I'd be willing to bet on (with roster construction).

[DAF86]

Bron - won a playoff series and was a game away from the ECF in year 3

Jordan - made the playoffs every year until he became a Wizard, won first playoff series in year 4

Shaq - playoffs in year 2, went to the finals in year 3

Giannis - playoffs year 2, first playoff series win year 6

Jokic - playoffs year 5, game away from WCF

Curry - playoffs year 4, first series win

Durant - playoffs year 3, first series win year 4

Doncic - playoffs year 2, first series win year 4

Just for reference

Well, yeah, I expect Wemby to make the playoffs by year 3, tbh. Ringig is a whole different thing, though.

Shaq moved franchises to ring, after that rushed start with the Magic.

[KobesAchilles]

Well, yeah, I expect Wemby to make the playoffs by year 3, tbh. Ringig is a whole different thing, though.

Shaq moved franchises to ring, after that rushed start with the Magic.

Nah Shaq left bc of money and jealousy. He said it himself many times. He wanted to be paid more than Penny and felt (correctly) that he was more important to the Magic than Penny was. But the Magic lowballed him a bit and Shaq was insecure about Penny being the face of the franchise.

The problem is that there are a lot of people here that want the Spurs to make zero moves besides draft player and we won't make the playoffs doing that. Our team isn't good enough and it just won't be good enough for us to stand pat and "wait" for bench players to improve.

[scott]

Nah Shaq left bc of money and jealousy. He said it himself many times. He wanted to be paid more than Penny and felt (correctly) that he was more important to the Magic than Penny was. But the Magic lowballed him a bit and Shaq was insecure about Penny being the face of the franchise.

The problem is that there are a lot of people here that want the Spurs to make zero moves besides draft player and we won't make the playoffs doing that. Our team isn't good enough and it just won't be good enough for us to stand pat and "wait" for bench players to improve.

I’ve actually noticed far less people in this camp as the season has progressed and we’ve seen what Wemby brings. At this point it seems more a debate over what are the right moves and players to bring in and those debates are what make this board great (until people start telling others to commit suicide and other psychotic like that).

With that said, I’m still not 100% sure the Spurs FO is on this page

So long as we take any reasonable path that can be construed as trying to improve the team quickly, I’ll be relatively happy this offseason. However, if it means resigning Cedi, bringing back Doug and Patty, a “big” FA signing of Evan Fournier or some bull , and drafting some guys… I’ll be pretty disappointed.

[JPB]

My guess is the closest anyone will come will be when I said this:



But there is a pretty distinct difference between my argument and that idea that Wemby is expected to, or "has to" contend by Year 3. That isn't my expectation of Wemby, but rather it's my feeling of what he is capable of, and one I'd be willing to bet on (with roster construction). [/COLOR]

OK Scott, but I meant a legit, regular poster, not that same guy who said spurs are in the play in next even they keep the same exact same roster... But if that the guy poeple were answering then, my bad...

Now saying this, if they can add another star and a couple elite role players in the next 2 years, that could be interesting since I believe Victor is an MVP candidate in year 3.

[scott]

OK Scott, but I meant a legit, regular poster, not that same guy who said spurs are in the play in next even they keep the same exact same roster... But if that the guy poeple were answering then, my bad...

Now saying this, if they can add another star and a couple elite role players in the next 2 years, that could be interesting since I believe Victor is an MVP candidate in year 3.

Maybe I'm misreading your post... but I'm pretty sure I've never come close to implying the Spurs are in the play-in next year if they keep the same roster...

[The Truth #6]

Jordan had Gervin. Duncan had David. Wemby had... McDermott. That's objectively hilarious. But Wemby transcends. Regardless, even most bad teams had veterans. They need to at least get Wemby some grizzled vets that play hard to set some expectations for the young players.

[ambchang]

Hi Sugus, I addressed this in the post directly after yours, so I won't address again but I didn't want you to think I was ignoring your post.

I'm not really in disagreement with any of this. I think there is a strong possibility that Year 3 Wemby is ready to lead a le team. So much so that this is the outcome I'd be willing to bet on if I were the GM, and I'd build the team around this premise. If it ends up being Year 4 Wemby instead... that really doesn't change much. If it is Year 5 Wemby who is finally ready, then I've probably misgauged things a little bit but that is still okay because the team you built for Year 3 Wemby is probably largely still in tact and applicable to Year 5*. I disagree with the notion that it's better to be late than early (in terms of the team building), because if you are early - you can still adjust. But if you are late, you've missed an opportunity. If Year 3 Wemby is that Championship Centerpiece, but you've surrounded him with a non-championship caliber supporting cast, you've done him and the franchise a disservice. There is no recapturing that after the fact.

]I'm on the side that Wemby will be ready to contend as soon as next year[/B]. His improvement through the year, the brief apparitions of a rookie wall, how his body has handled the increased workload of an NBA season, how good he has been in the clutch, his compe iveness...

Wemby is the window, even modestly successful drafting and roster additions with solid Wemby health will have them in the play-in at least. I look at how this team has been in games and winning with Wemby minutes only for wrecks to explode everything else.

The team's winning is going to flip like climate change. Small changes like replacing scrubs and Wemby being Wemby without the rookie non-calls, without the rookie minutes limits .... And all those games that the Spurs were in respectably are going to flip like a runaway greenhouse effect and will not be survivable for most teams.

Wemby might well be ready to be a championship centrepiece earlier in his career than others were who won in year 7/8 of their careers. I know we crushed the Cavs in 07, but if LeBron had a better cast I think he was ready in year 4 - that, to me is the comparison point.

LeBron is an outlier success, and in terms of impact, probably is the closest to Wemby as a young rookie (Wemby's better, though older as a rookie, close enough) with a dominant path. If the Cavs did a better job building up the roster they might have been good enough to win if they got a break their way in the finals.

I think the Spurs should be thinking that Wemby is on that type of path, rather than a ready in year 8 path. I still think it's worth patience to build slowly (ish) with year 4 in mind, rather than thinking he's ready now. As good as he is, there are things to work on (Timing of taking early shots off the dribble, physical strength and ability to post up (see Holiday in the Denver game ), screen angles and slipping to take advantage of switches). Those little things will magnify his impact, move him up the total impact boards and make him a more championship ready piece as he'll have fewer holes to attack.

Slowly doesn't mean nothing, and if something comes up that means the Spurs can get an All NBA caliber player who fits, it's worth it to get the Shaq to Wemby's Wade. I don't see that as a realistic option - Curry, Luka, Shai, Hali, Brunson ain't moving, Mitc might in FA (seems dumb to trade for him at his asset value, perfectly fine swinging on him as a FA target), then you get into more fringe guys who aren't at that all NBA level (to me, Trae isn't an All-NBA level player), where trading for them is more about an asset play than truly opening up a championship window.

See above.

Again, show me anyone here who expects Wemby to contend in year 3 ? Now can Wemby be the best player in the league in year 3? Yup, He could be in the MVP convo next year already. As pundits said, it took Victor half a season what takes other players 5 years to improve like he did.

Anyway, all your comparisons with GOAT players who played or stopped playing 20 years ago are pointless, specially in today's much more offensive NBA. We have NEVER seen somebody like Wemby in the NBA. Never. He's an alien.

- How many of the guys you named, were in the convo for defensive player of the year in their rookie season? Lebron or Bird never were once in their career, Wemby might be just that for the NEXT 12 YEARS IN A ROW.

- How many posted 5x5 in their rookie season? Only 13 players ( or so) had a 5x5 IN HISTORY. From all the players you named, only Olajuwon did. Jordan, Bird, Duncan, Lebron NEVER HAD ONE IN THEIR ENTIRE CAREER... WEMBY HAD ONE AND ALMOST BACK TO BACK 5x5 IN HIS ROOKIE SEASON....

Victor could post several quadruple doubles by next season already and has broken bunches ALL NBA HISTORY records (not just rookie records) in his rookie season.

We have never seen a player who can dominate and intimidate on both sides of the floor like that. Never. And bringing 20 years old comparisons is pointless, it's not becasue it happened like that with former GOATs that it will with Victor.

So what’s your point? Wemby is different and better than all these players and he’s NOT ready to contend by year 3?

[TD 21]

For those who subscribe to this . . .

AKA, PATFO are above reproach, know more about basketball than you ever will, 99% of the players in the league either suck or aren't good enough in some way to fit into the Spurs precious "culture" and if they're just patient, they'll either stumble into a perfect roster via the draft or will trade for Antetokounmpo or Doncic.

Say they go about it your preferred way, we get down the road a few years and they're in a similar spot, with Wembanyama growing impatient, then what?

[buttsR4rebounding]

OK Scott, but I meant a legit, regular poster, not that same guy who said spurs are in the play in next even they keep the same exact same roster... But if that the guy poeple were answering then, my bad...

Now saying this, if they can add another star and a couple elite role players in the next 2 years, that could be interesting since I believe Victor is an MVP candidate in year 3.

I am not advocating the Spurs make no moves. I would love to see them get Naz Reid for example. I am just saying that people are underestimating Wemby’s impact. Since the AS break when he is on the floor the Spurs are a playoff level team. His minutes will increase next year as will his effectiveness during those minutes. While most are trashing the 2022 draft picks they all will be entering their 3rd year when historically we seen a significant jump. If one of the 3 make that jump it will be huge. I think Sochan has shown a lot of flashes of excellence the past 20 games. Spending the summer working on his jumper instead of learning to be a PG will be extremely beneficial. Several others will benefit from having better defined roles as well.

[MaNu4Tres]

For those who subscribe to this . . .



Say they go about it your preferred way, we get down the road a few years and they're in a similar spot, with Wembanyama growing impatient, then what?

There will always be an opportunity to overpay for a fringe AS talent from a middle play in team if desperation is at an all time high. Spurs are far away from that.

[Pauleta14]

[rankingtear]

Wemby is such a unique player, but as we have seen in Gobert , Giannis and AD you don't compromise defense in any position. You can easily get roped into thinking you can hide a major weak link or multiple ones because of how good they are on defense. We have to wait for that kind if co-star no matter what.