Brian Windhorst: The Spurs won’t be looking to make any big moves this summer

[Degoat]

I don’t think we should sit on our hands and wait to get better but I was just just looking at west standings, just to be in Play-in contention you need 45 wins, that’s pretty wild lol that’s probably the reason spurs will be patient.

[MannyIsGod]

It's not replacing the worst of the team...which are the starters. The Starters, sans Wemby...are responsible for this horrible record. And you're not replacing them.

What is it that Einstein said? "Insanity is doing the same thing, but expecting different results."

Replacing the non-starters but keeping most of the starters...is basically doing the same thing but expecting different results. The Bench is not our worst problem. In fact, I've been more happy with them than the starters as of late.

There's so much abject stupidity in this post. Its a pretty stupid argument that NBA proven players like Vassel and Keldon are somehow worse than fringe NBA players. The idea that they are the worst part of the team is based on what exactly? Secondly, keeping those players on the team doesn't mean you keep the same lineups. The point of bringing in other players is to bring in more talent and the Spurs should be looking to bring in an actual starting PG at the very least.

Acting like replacing literally half of a 15 person roster is the same as running it back is ing stupid. There are no good free agent 2nd level stars on the market, and I think they would be wise to look for one via trade, but by far the most likely outcome is that they replace the worst parts of this roster with much better players and raise the overall talent level of this team.

[scott]

There's so much abject stupidity in this post. Its a pretty stupid argument that NBA proven players like Vassel and Keldon are somehow worse than fringe NBA players. The idea that they are the worst part of the team is based on what exactly? Secondly, keeping those players on the team doesn't mean you keep the same lineups. The point of bringing in other players is to bring in more talent and the Spurs should be looking to bring in an actual starting PG at the very least.

Acting like replacing literally half of a 15 person roster is the same as running it back is ing stupid. There are no good free agent 2nd level stars on the market, and I think they would be wise to look for one via trade, but by far the most likely outcome is that they replace the worst parts of this roster with much better players and raise the overall talent level of this team.

I think the point is that you appear to be suggesting that replacing the guys who don’t play with better guys who won’t play will somehow make an appreciable difference. But, I think what you are actually saying is replace the guys who don’t play with good players who will play and turn guys like Branham into an end of bench player.

But in the end, I see the point that the main reason we are bad is that our key players suck, and until they are replaced, then we’ll continue to suck. Improving the end of the bench isn’t going to do anything (I think you both agree with this point).

[itzsoweezee]

There's so much abject stupidity in this post. Its a pretty stupid argument that NBA proven players like Vassel and Keldon are somehow worse than fringe NBA players. The idea that they are the worst part of the team is based on what exactly? Secondly, keeping those players on the team doesn't mean you keep the same lineups. The point of bringing in other players is to bring in more talent and the Spurs should be looking to bring in an actual starting PG at the very least.

Acting like replacing literally half of a 15 person roster is the same as running it back is ing stupid. There are no good free agent 2nd level stars on the market, and I think they would be wise to look for one via trade, but by far the most likely outcome is that they replace the worst parts of this roster with much better players and raise the overall talent level of this team.

The quality of player isn’t the whole story. Their fit with Wemby is more important. Donovan Mitc is a better player than Garland, but the latter would be a better fit with Wemby. Keldon and Sochan might be better than a lot of NBA players out there, but this year they were not good fits with wemby.

[z0sa]

^ exactly. The goal of PATFO shouldn't be to simply draft highest, or attain the best possible players. It's to build a team that can be successful in a le hunt surrounding Wemby.

Vassell is a great scorer in his own right but he and Wemby's chemistry is less than expected after a whole season of suckitude tbh.

[BackHome]

The quality of player isn’t the whole story. Their fit with Wemby is more important. Donovan Mitc is a better player than Garland, but the latter would be a better fit with Wemby. Keldon and Sochan might be better than a lot of NBA players out there, but this year they were not good fits with wemby.

Excellent point when looking at this draft I have to keep asking myself the question who really will fit with Wemby. I understand getting talent but especially in this draft I would probably look more for fit then potential

[onechance87]

^ exactly. The goal of PATFO shouldn't be to simply draft highest, or attain the best possible players. It's to build a team that can be successful in a le hunt surrounding Wemby.

Vassell is a great scorer in his own right but he and Wemby's chemistry is less than expected after a whole season of suckitude tbh.

yup felt wemby had more connection with branham at times then vassell.But we all know vassell is more talented.Thought collins would fit with
wemby,But didnt work out so well compared to mamu who seems to connect with wemby.

[TVI]

Exactly. This is like saying "there may be some wind tomorrow" and knowing that there is a 98% chance you'll be right regardless of any "sources"
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I know people want the Spurs to suddenly be relevant and successful now that we have Wemby, but I've been saying all along it was still gonna be a 2-3 year project even AFTER we got the #1 pick.

And for anyone who wants to complain about that, some teams spend 2-3 years tanking and NEVER get a first round pick or generational player, so imagine that.

Agreed.

It's fascinating to me how some people don't see the clear and obvious improvement in the Spurs since the All-Star break. It's like the last 30 games never happened to some. Their passing got better, their decision making got better, and they know what they have on the current roster.

This season was about figuring out what Wemby can and can't do (yet) and adjusting to playing with him and each other. That wasn't going to happen in a week or a month. They are so much better than their record, and that was never clearer than the Denver game.

The Spurs could do absolutely nothing in the off season and they will still be a likely play-in team next year. But since we know they're likely to get a top 5 pick, they're going to get better in the draft. On that topic, most mock drafts have them picking up Topic, but I think Risacher is a great fit with a higher ceiling. If they manage to strike lightning again and get the #1, then Sarr is a must-have.

[scott]

Excellent point when looking at this draft I have to keep asking myself the question who really will fit with Wemby. I understand getting talent but especially in this draft I would probably look more for fit then potential

I really like the Risacher/Buzelis archetype next to Wemby, the same way I'd like Lauri Markkenen or MPJ next to Wemby. Whether Risacher or Buzelis will be good NBA players is the next question...

[SouthernFryd]

There's so much abject stupidity in this post. Its a pretty stupid argument that NBA proven players like Vassel and Keldon are somehow worse than fringe NBA players. The idea that they are the worst part of the team is based on what exactly?

Based on the obvious. They started the games and we've been horrible. Our record pretty much speaks for itself...and the starters.

Sometimes the obvious...is just too obvious sometimes. "Nah, that ain't it. It's something else..."

And so it goes...

[MannyIsGod]

Based on the obvious. They started the games and we've been horrible. Our record pretty much speaks for itself...and the starters.

Sometimes the obvious...is just too obvious sometimes. "Nah, that ain't it. It's something else..."

And so it goes...

The starting lineup that finished the season before injuries was a positive lineup. Compare that to the bench. Just ing stupid.

[MannyIsGod]

I think the point is that you appear to be suggesting that replacing the guys who don’t play with better guys who won’t play will somehow make an appreciable difference.

it takes almost willful ignorance to read my post that way. I never say anything about keeping the starters the same and I even talk about getting RID of one completely. Simply put, this team needs more talent. About a third of the roster are players who are capable of playing in an NBA level rotation and since its pretty ing clear we're not going to replace 14 players in one off season around Wemby, we should replace the ones who are atrocious first. They also happen to be the ones we can move away from without a financial hit. I don't particularly want to see Zach Collins on this team but it's not financially feasible to cut him and just eat that dead salary for two years so it is what it is.

[MannyIsGod]

The quality of player isn’t the whole story. Their fit with Wemby is more important. Donovan Mitc is a better player than Garland, but the latter would be a better fit with Wemby. Keldon and Sochan might be better than a lot of NBA players out there, but this year they were not good fits with wemby.

Ok, but are you going to replace all 14 players this year? I never said we shouldn't pick up players who are also good fits with Wemby. That's absolutely important. But we're going to have - AT THE VERY LEAST - 5-6 players from this year's roster on next years and if that's the case then it should be the ones who are capable of playing the best. Wemby also isn't going to be playing 48 minutes so there are important bench minutes to be had when he's not out there.

[The Truth #6]

The question then shifts to who are the worst players to replace. I'd say Branham and Wesley are two of the worst, but I don't see them leaving. So then it seems like upgrading Graham (who wasn't that bad actually) or Mamu (mostly same situation as Graham) or Osman. If they can get better players than Graham, Mamu, or Cedi, then that's great. But I don't see them making medium sized moves or getting rid of Wesley or Branham. So probably Graham and Cedi are gone...and replaced by two first round picks. There has to be internal development or the team could actually get slightly worse with two more rookies learning how to play NBA level basketball. Feeling pessimistic at the moment, I'm preparing for the possibility of regression to start the season. Lol.

[Pauleta14]

The question then shifts to who are the worst players to replace. I'd say Branham and Wesley are two of the worst, but I don't see them leaving. So then it seems like upgrading Graham (who wasn't that bad actually) or Mamu (mostly same situation as Graham) or Osman. If they can get better players than Graham, Mamu, or Cedi, then that's great. But I don't see them making medium sized moves or getting rid of Wesley or Branham. So probably Graham and Cedi are gone...and replaced by two first round picks. There has to be internal development or the team could actually get slightly worse with two more rookies learning how to play NBA level basketball. Feeling pessimistic at the moment, I'm preparing for the possibility of regression to start the season. Lol.

I agree (unfortunately) for Brahman, Pop seems to like him, but if we draft a PG I could see Wesley gone

[Mr. Body]

The idea of getting rid of players and then replacing them has things wrong. Even if you don't like a player like Vassell, it takes a lot of resources and attempts to replace him. This isn't a video game. It's actually really hard to find a Devin Vassell.

I figure these players are semi-'core' for the next 2-3 years: Wemby, Vassell, Sochan, Keldon, Branham, Collins, Jones

Those are players they won't want to move. Yes, I hear the snickers about Collins, but he's been very good in the past and isn't a player type easy to replace. Branham is more questionable but the signs are trending very positive.

These are the players who are in an uncertain category: Champagnie, Bassey, Wesley, Barlow, Mamukelashvili, Sissoko

It's not hard to see any of these players not here after next year, but it's too early to easily get rid of any of them now, as they are still developing. Can I imagine a better player than Barlow, Bassey, or Wesley coming along? Absolutely. But we don't know who these players are yet. I should probably put Cissoko in the first group, but have him here for now.

And then finally Graham and Osman. Graham is probably gone, Osman may go for other opportunities.

My guess is they'll go for two rookies in the draft, regardless of whether Toronto conveys. The rest of the players are a mix of guys with little value for trades but whose ceilings are unclear and then guys the team won't easily part from.

[TheChillFactor]

Most of us feel like Vassell is a lock to stay but I wonder. He has the most value of the team in a trade and I feel like at this point he looks like more of a #3 than a #2 on a le team.

[z0sa]

Most of us feel like Vassell is a lock to stay but I wonder. He has the most value of the team in a trade and I feel like at this point he looks like more of a #3 than a #2 on a le team.

I'd love him to stay -- with the clear expectation we're drafting or trading for a #2. He will still get his and then some, obviously. There's no reason he can't be a career 18-20PPG scorer and make hundreds of millions as a #3.

[LeBowen]

The idea of getting rid of players and then replacing them has things wrong. Even if you don't like a player like Vassell, it takes a lot of resources and attempts to replace him. This isn't a video game.

Agreed.

It's actually really hard to find a Devin Vassell.

Not really, shooting guards subpar in every aspect of the game other than scoring are the most common archetype in the league these days.

Yes, I hear the snickers about Collins, but he's been very good in the past and isn't a player type easy to replace.

Key word: past.
That's the issue with most sports fans. They can't accept that players can improve or decline.
Collins has been disgustingly bad in every aspect of the game this season. To make it even worse, he's been bad against bench bigs, not just starters.
He's actually really easy to replace. The entire presumption before this season was that Collins would be a good floor spacer next to Wemby.
During the season we've seen that Wemby is a center, not a power forward. Collins will never start or play next to Wemby again.
We don't need a stretch big for our bench, it actually has solid spacing. What we need is a ~15mpg backup who's a solid rim protector, can run the floor and gets some rebounds. That type of player definitely doesn't cost $16M a year.

Branham is more questionable but the signs are trending very positive.

Signs of what? He's a (lot) worse version of Vassell. You can find similar players everywhere.
I wouldn't cut him just for the sake of it, he should get another season, but I don't see the positive signs.
He's an atrocious defender and has no playmaking skills.
In today's league, the only guards that survive without those skills are the very best shooters.

These are the players who are in an uncertain category: Champagnie, Bassey, Wesley, Barlow, Mamukelashvili, Sissoko

Why would Champagnie be in uncertain category? He's on a bargain deal, doesn't affect the cap, has some size and is a decent shooter.
Keep until we find someone better.
Cissoko is also on a rookie deal, he's shown something, keep him as a third stringer, maybe he improves and earns minutes.
I don't think Wesley will ever be good enough, but Spurs tend to keep players like him until there's no hope left.
Bassey's knees are shot.
Barlow isn't good enough, maybe he stays as a third stringer, irrelevant in the bigger picture.

My guess is they'll go for two rookies in the draft, regardless of whether Toronto conveys. The rest of the players are a mix of guys with little value for trades but whose ceilings are unclear and then guys the team won't easily part from.

Don't forget two second rounders. Spurs own is almost a late first rounder since there's so much uncertainty in the draft.

[Spurs Homer]

Addition by subtraction. Vassell, Johnson, Collins and Branham need to be gone.

fify

[spurraider21]

Branham is more questionable but the signs are trending very positive.

[Pauleta14]

Most of us feel like Vassell is a lock to stay but I wonder. He has the most value of the team in a trade and I feel like at this point he looks like more of a #3 than a #2 on a le team.

I used to think so to but I've changed my mind, it makes sense to wait at least one more year to see if he can build a chemistry with Wemby. He showed real improvements since the ASG and he just said in his post season interview that he intends to work with Victor this summer on their 2 man game.

There are other priorities and trade commodities imo

[Dejounte]

Vassell may not be a #2 and he may be a #3 but can someone provide a list of #3 options in the league that the team can realistically trade for?

[spurraider21]

i wouldnt see the point in moving vassell. there isnt an available trade target where it would make sense to make him part of the deal. unless you are getting a luka type player which i know is not in the cards, i wouldnt include him in anything

[MannyIsGod]

Not a single player on this team outside of Wemby should be untradeable but the amount of trades that it makes sense to include Vassel in are not going to be very high. Obviously, I would love to have a player who is better than Vassal in that position, but just moving him to move him is stupid. It's not wrong that its going to be hard to upgrade from him. The last two months of the year he average 21ppg, 4 rebounds, and ~5 assists. That's not nothing. That's a pretty damn good stat line honestly.