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  1. #26
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Draft:
    I don't want to draft for position, that doesn't seem wise. Williams and Risacher are more than underwhelming. It doesn't make sense to burn a pick on someone who you'll just complain about a year from now, and we all know you'll all just be ing about them as much as you do the players we have. Why do I know this? Because all most anyone here does is .

    Anyway, I think the guards have more projectable skillsets and I want someone who has some elite core skills already, which CW and ZR don't have. I wouldn't be surprised to see Reed Sheppard. The most we can get out of this draft is a piece or two.

    Trades:
    I don't see any trades on the horizon at all. At most a minor one.

    Free Agents:
    I doubt there will be any free agents signed. A while back I thought a veteran or two would do wonders, but I think the team will stay the course. There's not even any roster spaces anyway.

    Roster:
    The core as I see it - for the next couple years - is Wembs, Sochan, Vassell, Keldon, Branham, Collins, in starkly descending order after Vassell. Keldon means more to the team than what he could get in exchange. No idea why you'd want to trade him. Branham has more of a ceiling than that the asylum inmates here think. Collins is a player that we cannot replace right now. I don't want to waste a pick getting Clingan or Filipowski when Collins is perfectly fine. No, he's not as bad as you say, you dopes.

    The rest are players who will determine their future in the next year. Champ is a must-keep because there are no other options. If we do get a starting SF, he can be great off the bench. No, Williams or Risacher are not going to be starting next year. Wesley, unfortunately, I think has a short window, but there's no reason to move on from him yet. Mamu should be kept if possible. Barlow and Bassey are question marks, but it's hard to move on them given a need for bigs.

    Verdict:
    I don't see a lot of changes other than clearing spots for a couple of rookies. They might wait until trade deadline, but this team is going to grow slowly, as they've said multiple times. I think they'll take hard consideration at getting a veteran point, like even Chris Paul, but Tre has been great. He's perfectly fine for a while going forward. People who are frantic to get a starting point and willing to give up a treasure trove are mistaken. If you want Trae Young, the vastly better option is ensuring you get Dillingham. Far cheaper, more coachable, so if he doesn't work you didn't just cut your off.

    Key needs: a first-level perimeter option, perimeter defense, a good bulky defensive big, perimeter shooting. You can maybe solve one of the first two issues in this draft. The rest will have to be found shrewdly or found later.
    Theres tons of roster space tbh…at a minimum Cedi/Graham are gone. But guys like Blake, Barlow, Branham, Bassey etc…are all more than easily replaced to open up spots and should not have any sort of guarantee of a roster spot unless they absolutely earn it over others.

  2. #27
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I'll put Mr. Body in the camp of "Run it back, this roster is good enough, just needs time to develop"

  3. #28
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    I'll put Mr. Body in the camp of "Run it back, this roster is good enough, just needs time to develop"
    Ya - Im not in that camp . I said I wanted 5 guys replaced. Im just cautioning spending too big too fast unless you are damn sure it’s a player you see fitting long term with this team. But I also know that means we likely miss out on guys like Monk too and Im ok with that.

    But guys like Keldon/Collins who make 16-19M? Im ok swapping those guys out for players like Monk who make similar money if you can. I would love to swap Keldon for Patrick Williams (something like that archetype) though.

  4. #29
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Ya - Im not in that camp . I said I wanted 5 guys replaced. Im just cautioning spending too big too fast unless you are damn sure it’s a player you see fitting long term with this team. But I also know that means we likely miss out on guys like Monk too and Im ok with that.

    But guys like Keldon/Collins who make 16-19M? Im ok swapping those guys out for players like Monk who make similar money if you can. I would love to swap Keldon for Patrick Williams (something like that archetype) though.
    Yeah, I didn't put you in that camp. If I had to basically build different buckets for folks to fall in, I think I'd draw them up this way:

    Group A: This roster needs a major overhaul ASAP. Everyone but Wemby must go NOW. (Plenty of people on this board fall in here)
    Group B: This roster needs a major overhaul, but not quite as drastic and with some semblance of long-term vision in mind. Within 2 seasons the core 10-man rotation should look pretty different. (I'd put myself here)
    Group C: We should look to improve the roster via the draft and frugal moves. Don't spend too much to maintain flexibility for a potential big move TBD at some point in the future should it present itself. (I'd put you here, DPG)
    Group D: Run it back, this roster is good enough, just needs time to develop. (Where Mr. Body appears to be)

    We could undoubtedly come up with a lot of shades of gray between these, but these are the main buckets IMO. I'd curious and what bucket posters fall into... but mostly I am hoping to see some roster constructions that people would want to pursue this offseason based on what we know now.

  5. #30
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Yup - out of those I would definitely say I fall in group C, but I will move to group B after this off season.

  6. #31
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I haven't looked at free agents enough to know who I really want, but offseason priority #1 is for Wemby not to get hurt during the Olympics.

  7. #32
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I don't think you've adapted to the new NBA economics yet. Monk isn't going to be gettable for $15MM/year, just like Grayson Allen wasn't going to be gettable for the 3/$40 you threw out in another thread. I get the sense that $15MM AAV is your mental cut of big money, but that's barely above the MLE next year ($12.9MM). You aren't going to get very far if $15MM/year is your individual cap, unless you just want to fill the roster with some MLE-type players.
    I'm not so sure this is right. I think there will be bargains out there as stars scoop up even bigger portions of the cap and not many teams have cap room. Maybe you are right, but I can also see scenarios where there just isn't a ton of open money available for free agents. The NBA not allowing all of the money from a new TV deal to hit all at once will probably help with this.

  8. #33
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    If Collins is perfectly fine, why would we have to use a pick to move him? Picks are only needed to sweeten the deal to take bad money on, but if Collins is, "perfectly fine" then it doesn't make sense that we would need to send a pick off in a trade with him but rather that we could get value back for him instead, no?

  9. #34
    Believe.
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    Draft Sarr.

    Trade for Tre only giving the Hawks their picks back and Keldon.
    If not Trae, trade for Garland giving the Cavs one future first and Keldon.
    Mamu replaces Sochan as the starting 4.

  10. #35
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    Group D: Run it back, this roster is good enough, just needs time to develop. (Where Mr. Body appears to be)

    .
    This option probably needs to be nuanced. There will be up to 5-6 guys who could just roll off as a result of their contracts this summer, and I don’t think people in this camp would necessarily advocate for the spurs to reup them. Add to that decisions on Year 4 options for Blake and Malaki (though latter is unlikely) and Tre’s free agency, and this roster could naturally different by the end of 2025.

    At the same time the core of VW-Dev-Jermey could still be developed, with ideally this year’s pick.

  11. #36
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Out of the current roster, in an ideal summer, I would only want the following back:

    Wemby
    Sochan
    Vassel
    Keldon
    Tre Jones
    Cedi
    Branham
    Wesley
    Mamu

    Even though Branham is back in this scenario, I do NOT want the Spurs to pick up his option. I don't want the Spurs to pick up Blake's option either and I would not want either to be rotation players unless they do something dramatic over the summer. Both of them would then have their 3rd year to show they are NBA players but they shouldn't be given minutes.

    Cedi is definitely a rotation level player and I would like him as a bench piece who can occasionally fill in as a starter. Not sure what salary he'll command, but I think he's a worthwhile player to have at the end of a rotation.

    Champagne
    Barlow
    Bassey
    Sidy

    They've had plenty of chances but on a bad team they never showed enough IMO. Being a fringe player on a 20 win team means that you're not an NBA level rotation player for a winning team. Sidy is a bit different I suppose, but I just dont' think there's enough to keep him around and I'd rather use the roster spot on someone else.

    Assuming we draft 2-3 rookies, I just want the players in Free agency who are capable of starting on an NBA team. I want a starting point guard. I think Tre is a serviceable backup and he tries so damn hard, but he is not a point guard that starts on a good NBA team and I don't think we'll see him take another step. He is what he is.

  12. #37
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Yeah, I didn't put you in that camp. If I had to basically build different buckets for folks to fall in, I think I'd draw them up this way:

    Group A: This roster needs a major overhaul ASAP. Everyone but Wemby must go NOW. (Plenty of people on this board fall in here)
    Group B: This roster needs a major overhaul, but not quite as drastic and with some semblance of long-term vision in mind. Within 2 seasons the core 10-man rotation should look pretty different. (I'd put myself here)
    Group C: We should look to improve the roster via the draft and frugal moves. Don't spend too much to maintain flexibility for a potential big move TBD at some point in the future should it present itself. (I'd put you here, DPG)
    Group D: Run it back, this roster is good enough, just needs time to develop. (Where Mr. Body appears to be)

    We could undoubtedly come up with a lot of shades of gray between these, but these are the main buckets IMO. I'd curious and what bucket posters fall into... but mostly I am hoping to see some roster constructions that people would want to pursue this offseason based on what we know now.
    I would guess I'm a mix of B/C. I don't want to make bad deals that limit our flexibility moving forward, but I also don't want to be frugal. The Spurs need to use their damn cap space and at some point they're going to have to cash in the draft equity they built via trade because I don't think it makes sense for them to play it out via the draft. Not with the current roster make up anyway.

  13. #38
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    This option probably needs to be nuanced. There will be up to 5-6 guys who could just roll off as a result of their contracts this summer, and I don’t think people in this camp would necessarily advocate for the spurs to reup them. Add to that decisions on Year 4 options for Blake and Malaki (though latter is unlikely) and Tre’s free agency, and this roster could naturally different by the end of 2025.

    At the same time the core of VW-Dev-Jermey could still be developed, with ideally this year’s pick.
    How is that not just Group C?

  14. #39
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    How is that not just Group C?
    It’s kinda my point. Not sure there is a Group D per se.

  15. #40
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    It’s kinda my point. Not sure there is a Group D per se.
    How I read Mr. Body's post sounds firmly Group D to me.

  16. #41
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Out of the current roster, in an ideal summer, I would only want the following back:

    Wemby
    Sochan
    Vassel
    Keldon
    Tre Jones
    Cedi
    Branham
    Wesley
    Mamu

    Even though Branham is back in this scenario, I do NOT want the Spurs to pick up his option. I don't want the Spurs to pick up Blake's option either and I would not want either to be rotation players unless they do something dramatic over the summer. Both of them would then have their 3rd year to show they are NBA players but they shouldn't be given minutes.

    Cedi is definitely a rotation level player and I would like him as a bench piece who can occasionally fill in as a starter. Not sure what salary he'll command, but I think he's a worthwhile player to have at the end of a rotation.

    Champagne
    Barlow
    Bassey
    Sidy

    They've had plenty of chances but on a bad team they never showed enough IMO. Being a fringe player on a 20 win team means that you're not an NBA level rotation player for a winning team. Sidy is a bit different I suppose, but I just dont' think there's enough to keep him around and I'd rather use the roster spot on someone else.

    Assuming we draft 2-3 rookies, I just want the players in Free agency who are capable of starting on an NBA team. I want a starting point guard. I think Tre is a serviceable backup and he tries so damn hard, but he is not a point guard that starts on a good NBA team and I don't think we'll see him take another step. He is what he is.
    This could easily be Group B, C, or D - depending on how you replace those four guys you are moving on from. If you are replacing them with (for example) a starting SF, a starting PG, your backup SG, and a rotational big while Bran/Wesley/Mamu/Cedi get pushed to third stringers... then it's Group B (this is more aligned what I assume you want, based on your other post on the topic). If you just replace them with different end of bench guys... then it's Group D, IMO.
    Last edited by scott; 04-15-2024 at 07:30 PM.

  17. #42
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    This could easily be Group B, C, or D - depending on how you replace those four guys you are moving on from. If you are replacing them with (for example) a starting SF, a starting, your backup SG, and a rotational big while Bran/Wesley/Mamu/Cedi get pushed to third stringers... then it's Group B (this is more aligned what I assume you want, based on your other post on the topic). If you just replace them with different end of bench guys... then it's Group D, IMO.
    We desperately need starters IMO. We need capable NBA level starters at 3 positions and the only one where I could potentially see a current player becoming an NBA level starter is at the 4 with Sochan.

  18. #43
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    We desperately need starters IMO. We need capable NBA level starters at 3 positions and the only one where I could potentially see a current player becoming an NBA level starter is at the 4 with Sochan.
    I agree. I think our biggest needs, in order, are:

    1. Starting SF
    2. Starting PG
    3. Backup SG

    I'm okay with Sochan continuing as the starting 4 because he at least continues to show the potential to be a capable starter, assuming the proper archetype is placed next to him as the starting 3 (Julian is a compatible archetype, just not good enough).

    Even upgrading those 3 spots to a bare minimum of Gordon Hayward, Malcom Brogdon and Gary Trent Jr. would have a huge impact on this team. I think it you did nothing else but make those 3 moves and bring back the same team otherwise and you'd have a team capable of play-in contention, and that is before factoring what you hope is one or two Top-10 picks who make some kind of positive contribution their rookie seasons.

  19. #44
    half man half amazing
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    At a minimum, they need to grab a cheap, quality veteran point guard like Brogdon or Schroeder. Perhaps also select a backup big with one of the second round picks. Probably a stretch, but they should try to find a team desperate enough to trade for the first round pick.

  20. #45
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    Draft topic or dillingham and one wing(if we get toronto pick), trade keldon.

  21. #46
    The Timeless One Leetonidas's Avatar
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    If there is a move out there to accelerate the timeline that doesn't break the bank and it makes sense, do it. Otherwise adding some vets, (hopefully) two top 10 rookies, and playing out next season isnt the worst idea. I'm on the trade for Trae Young bandwagon but it has to be the right price.

  22. #47
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    New coach
    Players who realize Wemby is better then them and are not jealous. Able to throw simple pass to wide open Wama.
    Spurs Dance Team brought back.

    Wama completes his stint in the silly greedy World Commercialism Games healthy.

  23. #48
    Believe.
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    Trades:
    Toronto pick, Chicago pick, Zach Collins for Deni Avdija + Wiz 2nd rounder
    Wizards basically get 2 potential lottery picks for a 23 year old combo forward who can shoot some, pass well, defend well, and is continuing to improve year after year on what is essentially an MLE contract for 4 years. Also we get to offload Collins' contract; I hate selling low on Collins, but I don't see him playing well next to Wemby and the things that he does well aren't the things I want from my backup center

    Draft:
    Reed Sheppard (1st round) - higher on him than many; gives you elite off-ball shooting and untapped on-ball potential; should synergize well with Vassell, Wemby, and Deni's creation
    Package Spurs, Wiz 2nd rounder to move up to early 20s, draft Devin Carter - immediate defensive stopper at the guard spot, improving dramatically year after year, college shot profile was basically high volume 3s and rim attempts as which is exactly what you want in the modern NBA and for this team

    FA:
    Goga Bitadze - 3 years, 20 million
    Magic have too many centers with Wagner and Carter and are also playing Isaac; Bitadze gives you elite defense and a bruiser at backup center prices

    Depth Chart:
    Sheppard/Vassell/Avdija/Sochan/Wemby
    Tre Jones/Carter/Champagnie/Keldon/Goga
    Malaki gets spot minutes and continues developing in G-league

    With some development, this probably allows you to contend for a play in spot. Among your starters, you have 2 great shooters, Deni continues to increase his volume of shooting (shot 0.374 last year so hopefully continuing to improve his shot). 2 good perimeter wing defenders to hide Sheppard. Among your backups, everyone except Goga is probably at least an average shooter (Jones dramatically improved the second half of the year) and you've got multiple good defenders in Goga, Carter, and even Champagnie to hide Keldon who can go bull rush the rim and slack on defense as much as he wants.

    You've given up none of our own picks and none of ATL's picks, you've consolidated some of your picks for actual players, and you've got a decent defensive unit that has shooting potential.

  24. #49
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    Big picture Wemby likes Pop and his teammates. So if you don’t like Pop, get real and get on board. There will be some strategic cuts, trades, a huge signing is not likely but if something nice falls into our laps of course you capitalize. The notion that we might get lucky in free agency is not crazy, we have the best young prospect perhaps ever which is a draw and no state income tax. Guys we want should be smart enough to not consider only $ in their decisions.

    Good on Scott and others though for thinking on it much more deeply than I, chicken soup for the soul in what was often a very trying season.

    One other reminder, continuity is also valuable that was part of our recipe for past success.

  25. #50
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    So I'm going to leave out the team acquiring any current of former MVP winners or close-losers as being unrealistic. I'm also going to assume the Spurs have about $20 Million in cap space. The real number is variable, and I don't wanna calculate it until we know where those variables end up. For the draft, I'm assuming the Spurs end up with the sixth-, seventh-, 35th- and 46th-overall picks.

    Trade:

    SAS: Trades Collins, Graham, Branham, 35, 46, ATL25 and CHA25 for Middleton, Portis and 22
    MKE: Trades Middleton, Portis, 22 and 34 for Capela, Murray, Branham and 46
    ATL: Trades Murray and Capela for Collins, Graham, 34, 35, ATL 25 and CHA25

    Draft:

    6 -- Dillingham
    7 -- Holland
    22 -- Smith

    Free Agency:

    Royce O'Neale for full room exception

    Roster:

    Dilligham, Jones, Wesley
    Vassell, Holland, Champangie
    Middleton, Johnson, Cissoko
    Sochan, O'Neale, Smith
    Wembanyama, Portis, Bassey

    Comments:

    I really like the mix of youth and experience in that rotation. Middleton and Portis bring championship experience while also having experience playing in a system similar to that of the Spurs and of having a unicorn front-court player lead their team. Khris helps Dillingham grow into the starting PG role as well as providing a body in what should be a very strong defensive core. Holland may seem like an awkward fit as the backup SG, but he and Johnson basically share wing duties. If Jones' shooting has really come around, that second unit has enough spacing to let Holland come along slowly and threaten the rim the way only he can. His size, athleticism and instincts would be the final piece of the defensive core, and he'd hopefully progress to the point of taking over for Middleton or Sochan in a couple of years. Smith is an interesting player who just seems to be flying under the radar. He has the size to be the fourth-string center but might end up being the long-term PF. Snagging him on a rookie-scale contract is the final piece to the trade that makes it palatable to give up an unprotected pick from a team on the verge of rebuilding.

    If Wemby grows as quickly as some expect him to, the Spurs could be legit contenders with this roster. The point of it is to provide a strong trellis for Victor, Devin, Jeremy, Rob and Ron to grow. But that team's talented and versatile, and if a couple of guys take some steps, the team could support a superstar Victor as a dark horse. A more likely outcome would be the Spurs use the decent contracts and remaining assets to make another splash move But in that scenario, there's already redundancy and contingency plans in place to absorb the impact of meeting the seller's price.
    Last edited by Chinook; 04-15-2024 at 11:43 PM.

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