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  1. #51
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I don’t necessarily love the exact moves you’re making SpursBills and Chinook, but if the Spurs went in either of directions I’d be happy at the steps and do think we’d see some nice improvement.
    Chinook - who is Smith that you are taking at 22? The name isn’t connecting with the prospect for me.

  2. #52
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I don’t necessarily love the exact moves you’re making SpursBills and Chinook, but if the Spurs went in either of directions I’d be happy at the steps and do think we’d see some nice improvement.
    Chinook - who is Smith that you are taking at 22? The name isn’t connecting with the prospect for me.
    Tyler Smith -- 6-11 forward from the Ignite


  3. #53
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    ^Thanks Chinook. Forgot about him, though I think I’ve been seeing him mocked quite a bit earlier as of late. This draft is all over the place.

  4. #54
    Believe. stnick2261's Avatar
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    This is how I see the team:




    ??? / Tre Jones
    Devin Vassell / ???
    ??? / Keldon Johnson
    ??? / Jeremy Sochan
    Victor Wemby / ???

    I really don't want another tanking year (especially with how good Wemby is), but I don't see the available players in trade or FA to make us contenders this summer. I would have a 2 year plan to get our entire 2-deep to be at least "starter quality". I wouldn't mind drafting "projects" with high upside. I would do what I could to make sure there is cap room for 2025 Free Agency (which it looks like we have plenty of room).

    Summer of 2025:

    Nikola Topic* / Tre Jones
    Devin Vassell / ('24 or '25 Draft)
    OG Anunoby / Keldon Johnson
    Lauri Markkanen / Jeremy Sochan
    Victor Wembanyama / ('24 or '25 Draft)

    *I'm still high on Topic, but I wouldn't be disappointed in getting someone else. We are going to have like 6 first round draft picks; someone is bound to be good.

  5. #55
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Dilly/Holland would be a nice pairing imo

  6. #56
    Fantasy Football Guru Guru of Nothing's Avatar
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    As I've mentioned before, if next season is going to be round 2 of figuring out, my suggestion is that PATFO address PG and 3&D first. As for the PF, I see an opportunity to go super cheap and roll out Mamu and Barlow and let them fight it out for their share of the 48 minutes. If PG and 3&D are shored up, and we still have a PF issue, then address it a year from now, and then hopefully the team hits the ground running at full speed in Wemby's third year.

    Also, bring in someone like a Tobias Harris on a heavy 2-year contract and give Sochan marching orders to take the starting position from "old man" Tobias (or Gordon Heyward as another example) in 2024, or he's out the door sooner than later (light a fire under his ass, in other words).

  7. #57
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    So I'm going to leave out the team acquiring any current of former MVP winners or close-losers as being unrealistic. I'm also going to assume the Spurs have about $20 Million in cap space. The real number is variable, and I don't wanna calculate it until we know where those variables end up. For the draft, I'm assuming the Spurs end up with the sixth-, seventh-, 35th- and 46th-overall picks.

    Trade:

    SAS: Trades Collins, Graham, Branham, 35, 46, ATL25 and CHA25 for Middleton, Portis and 22
    MKE: Trades Middleton, Portis, 22 and 34 for Capela, Murray, Branham and 46
    ATL: Trades Murray and Capela for Collins, Graham, 34, 35, ATL 25 and CHA25

    Draft:

    6 -- Dillingham
    7 -- Holland
    22 -- Smith

    Free Agency:

    Royce O'Neale for full room exception

    Roster:

    Dilligham, Jones, Wesley
    Vassell, Holland, Champangie
    Middleton, Johnson, Cissoko
    Sochan, O'Neale, Smith
    Wembanyama, Portis, Bassey

    Comments:

    I really like the mix of youth and experience in that rotation. Middleton and Portis bring championship experience while also having experience playing in a system similar to that of the Spurs and of having a unicorn front-court player lead their team. Khris helps Dillingham grow into the starting PG role as well as providing a body in what should be a very strong defensive core. Holland may seem like an awkward fit as the backup SG, but he and Johnson basically share wing duties. If Jones' shooting has really come around, that second unit has enough spacing to let Holland come along slowly and threaten the rim the way only he can. His size, athleticism and instincts would be the final piece of the defensive core, and he'd hopefully progress to the point of taking over for Middleton or Sochan in a couple of years. Smith is an interesting player who just seems to be flying under the radar. He has the size to be the fourth-string center but might end up being the long-term PF. Snagging him on a rookie-scale contract is the final piece to the trade that makes it palatable to give up an unprotected pick from a team on the verge of rebuilding.

    If Wemby grows as quickly as some expect him to, the Spurs could be legit contenders with this roster. The point of it is to provide a strong trellis for Victor, Devin, Jeremy, Rob and Ron to grow. But that team's talented and versatile, and if a couple of guys take some steps, the team could support a superstar Victor as a dark horse. A more likely outcome would be the Spurs use the decent contracts and remaining assets to make another splash move But in that scenario, there's already redundancy and contingency plans in place to absorb the impact of meeting the seller's price.
    Giving up a potential lottery pick with ATL25 makes this an overpay. Don’t like Middleton; he’s had injury issues in the past, played 55 games this year, and is 32 years old. Not saying that he’s a hard no - but I’d be more comfortable giving us SAS25 than ATL25 in that deal.

  8. #58
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Giving up a potential lottery pick with ATL25 makes this an overpay. Don’t like Middleton; he’s had injury issues in the past, played 55 games this year, and is 32 years old. Not saying that he’s a hard no - but I’d be more comfortable giving us SAS25 than ATL25 in that deal.
    i definitely paused for a bit to process the full scope of chinook's scenario. instinctively didnt like it, seeing the ATL 25. but the more i thought the more i realized its quite a good deal tbh, though im not sure the other teams would do it.

    you are also getting back 22 in this year's draft and portis is quite a good player too. finding a natural way to offload zollins is nice, and you still hang onto keldon has a future trade chip as well.

  9. #59
    Veteran ginobilized's Avatar
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    After watching the season end with a high IQ player in the lineup with Wemby, I think that 's what he requires. Just one other starter that can pass well could unlock the offense a bit more.
    Wemby's ungodly abilities include unselfishness and an uncanny ability to read his teammates. Sochan, Vassell, KJ, Wesley, and Branham are hard to read because they are not savvy on either side of the ball quite often. I see Pop working to teach them the game, but, I'm not sure how much Bball IQ can be learned.

    Jokic is on his way toward a likely 3rd MVP this season. It's a (albeit slight) possibility that the Nuggets would be better with Wemby. This season. Swap Wemby with Embiid, Giannis, Porzingis or AD and those teams are not looking worse. He can play with just about anyone. It was sad to see him struggle with the highly questionable decision-making of his teammates and coaches to begin the year. The Spurs have seen the light regarding Wemby, undoubtedly. I hope the leashes shorten on the bone-headed plays that these guys make.

    Better players with high IQ would be my prime offseason wish. Moving on from a couple of the guys would be my secondary wish.

  10. #60
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    If Collins is perfectly fine, why would we have to use a pick to move him? Picks are only needed to sweeten the deal to take bad money on, but if Collins is, "perfectly fine" then it doesn't make sense that we would need to send a pick off in a trade with him but rather that we could get value back for him instead, no?
    Let me clarify…I meant play him and look to move him if his value is high enough to warrant not giving anything up. But if heading into FA this year or next that opportunity has not presented itself and SA needs the space, hes an obvious salary to dump even if it costs 2nds which we have an abundance of.

  11. #61
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    So, rough idea.

    Draft
    Sarr (Our pick) and Sheppard (Raptors pick). Doesn't address the wing / SF minutes, but I think those are the best prospects that are likely to be available there (Sarr should be gone earlier, but happens). Sarr as a pure Centre doesn't work, but I think there's a value in being able to go huge at the big spots and I think he's mobile enough to cover out on the perimeter well enough, and Wemby is a good enough range shooter that spacing shouldn't be the issue completely that it is in places like Cleveland, and defensively you have more size to cover / help behind Wemby, so that he can be more than a drop big and potentially be a scary roamer.

    Trade:
    35 and 46 to somewhere in the late first, draft one of Tyler Smith, KyShawn George, Jonny Furphy (SGF below). Just jumping up a few spots to target someone specific.

    Trade:
    Keldon Johnson, Malaki Branham, Charlotte 25, Chicago 25, 2 second round picks (one each in 25, 26) to Cleveland, Darius Garland to San Antonio (this is basically the "Mitc has decided to stay" trade). Those second round picks should be around 40 / early in the second, so it's making a trade of a lot of depth picks to a team light on picks from the Mitc trade, where the Mitc / Garland pairing is not working. I don't think Garland is amazing, but I think he fits well as a shooter.

    FA:
    Gap to fill is SF. Ideal is probably that Paul George goes to Philly, and we can fit in Tobias Harris as a 2 - 3 year at a bit of an overpay. Don't think we have room for that, but I'm going to be generous in our wish list scenario that we're one of the teams with the most space, a clear starting role, and the other cap space teams aren't looking for him (Detroit is probably a pass from Tobias, I'm assuming Philly has moved on, OKC could (would fit well there, depends on his preference), Utah is in tank mode, Charlotte has Brandon Miller etc).

    Team:

    Garland / Tre / Blake
    Vassell / Sheppard
    Tobias Harris / Champagnie / SGF / Sidy
    Sarr / Sochan
    Wemby / Collins

    Idea is that you have shooters in the starting lineup with enough juice that Wemby doesn't need to do too much, and Sarr can cover the dunker spot / weak side rotations, and this should be a playoff team. Bench should be much better.

  12. #62
    what uganda do about it? Joseph Kony's Avatar
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    the sniff crew thinks we should basically stand pat. not really surprising though considering most of these dolts were certain spurs would be a play in team at least and on anyone who predicted the under on Vegas' o/u last summer

    newsflash - the team is full of low iq, one dimensional players who cannot create for themselves or others and cant guard a traffic cone. they arent going to magically mature into impact players

  13. #63
    what uganda do about it? Joseph Kony's Avatar
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    Spurs should maximize Wemby on a rookie deal as long as they can and go all-in ASAP imo. He will be a MVP level player next season and he doesnt need Luka or Giannis to compete for the chip

    trade/waive/renounce/whatever basically everyone besides Wemby/Vassell/Sochan and maybe Mamu if he can re-sign on a good deal. offer PG the max, trade for Young. Wemby/PG/Trae trio is good enough to win a le next season

  14. #64
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Spurs should maximize Wemby on a rookie deal as long as they can and go all-in ASAP imo. He will be a MVP level player next season and he doesnt need Luka or Giannis to compete for the chip

    trade/waive/renounce/whatever basically everyone besides Wemby/Vassell/Sochan and maybe Mamu if he can re-sign on a good deal. offer PG the max, trade for Young. Wemby/PG/Trae trio is good enough to win a le next season
    Lmao what???? Trae with Dejounte and other solid players cant even make the playoffs and PG has Kawhi playing most games hes ever played and James Harden and cant win a le.

  15. #65
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Out of the current roster, in an ideal summer, I would only want the following back:

    Wemby
    Sochan
    Vassel
    Keldon
    Tre Jones
    Cedi
    Branham
    Wesley
    Mamu

    Even though Branham is back in this scenario, I do NOT want the Spurs to pick up his option. I don't want the Spurs to pick up Blake's option either and I would not want either to be rotation players unless they do something dramatic over the summer. Both of them would then have their 3rd year to show they are NBA players but they shouldn't be given minutes.

    Cedi is definitely a rotation level player and I would like him as a bench piece who can occasionally fill in as a starter. Not sure what salary he'll command, but I think he's a worthwhile player to have at the end of a rotation.

    Champagne
    Barlow
    Bassey
    Sidy

    They've had plenty of chances but on a bad team they never showed enough IMO. Being a fringe player on a 20 win team means that you're not an NBA level rotation player for a winning team. Sidy is a bit different I suppose, but I just dont' think there's enough to keep him around and I'd rather use the roster spot on someone else.

    Assuming we draft 2-3 rookies, I just want the players in Free agency who are capable of starting on an NBA team. I want a starting point guard. I think Tre is a serviceable backup and he tries so damn hard, but he is not a point guard that starts on a good NBA team and I don't think we'll see him take another step. He is what he is.
    In an ideal summer I'd really want to cash out on Keldon before his trade value zeroes out and get someone who fits next to Victor.

  16. #66
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Im on the Keldon for Patrick Williams trade personally.

    Beyond that, keep Tre + Mamu + Champagnie IMO and everyone else can go (outside of Wemby/Dev/Vassell) or has to compete for a roster spot.

    Getting a Brogdon or Tyus type PG makes sense if cost is cheap enough.

    From a big move perspective, I would keep an eye on Giannis situation….

  17. #67
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Giving up a potential lottery pick with ATL25 makes this an overpay. Don’t like Middleton; he’s had injury issues in the past, played 55 games this year, and is 32 years old. Not saying that he’s a hard no - but I’d be more comfortable giving us SAS25 than ATL25 in that deal.
    Would be a hard no for me. Old and injury prone isn't a good combination and if Milwaukee is trading him they're probably blowing everything up anyways because Giannis asked out. In which case just offer Milwaukee picks, swaps, Keldon, and maybe Devin for Giannis.

  18. #68
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Spurs should maximize Wemby on a rookie deal as long as they can and go all-in ASAP imo. He will be a MVP level player next season and he doesnt need Luka or Giannis to compete for the chip

    trade/waive/renounce/whatever basically everyone besides Wemby/Vassell/Sochan and maybe Mamu if he can re-sign on a good deal. offer PG the max, trade for Young. Wemby/PG/Trae trio is good enough to win a le next season
    They only have $20 million in capspace so would need the Clippers to agree to say a Keldon + Graham for PG13 sign and trade to pull it off. Would still be really tough to then put together the matching salary for Trae without including Vassell.

  19. #69
    Veteran vy65's Avatar
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    I’ve been in the Type B camp of “be aggressive, but don’t go all out.” That said, and the more I think about it, Wemby’s progress figures to be asymptotic. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a top-10 player next year, while still being on a rookie contract. So I think a borderline all-in move probably makes sense (call it a Type A-/B+).

    Lauri Markenen would be absolutely killer. I’d send UTA some package of: SAS24, TOR24/25, CHI, CHA, ATL25, Keldon, Wesley, and Branham for Lauri. We could add more picks (depending on what the other offers are, if any). Lauri only has 1 more year on his contract, and if he isn’t staying, then UTA is going to have to monetize him - so that’d be the incentive for them to deal).

    I’d try to package our two SRPs this year, with maybe a future SRP, to move into the 20s and take Kyshawn George as the guy to develop behind Tre as our future starter. I’d look free agency or make a minor-ish trade for a backup G/F.

    Tre/Kyshawn George
    Vassel/Champagnie
    Lauri/Sidy/G-F placeholder
    Sochan/Mamu/G-F placeholder
    Wemby/Zollins

  20. #70
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    The only way Spurs should do something like that is if PG wants to take less money. Spurs can ship out Collins to get to 30M in (roughly) salary cap space and if PG is willing to sign for that? Ok maybe. But dont give up players and picks.

    But if they will take something like Collins/Keldon? Then I dont mind paying someone like PG the money Keldon/Collins are getting and consolidating their money into one player.

  21. #71
    Believe.
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    In an ideal summer I'd really want to cash out on Keldon before his trade value zeroes out and get someone who fits next to Victor.
    Exactly.
    Keldon is a net negative on both ends if we talk serious basketball. Luckily for us, most teams haven't caught up with it yet.
    Him and Collins are a perfect combo to be paired for a star player. Keldon even has positive value and isn't just a contract to match salaries.

    They only have $20 million in capspace so would need the Clippers to agree to say a Keldon + Graham for PG13 sign and trade to pull it off. Would still be really tough to then put together the matching salary for Trae without including Vassell.
    If Spurs are to trade for multiple players with big contracts, Vassell has to go. Won't happen, but can't have Trae, PG and Vassell on the roster, we'd need some depth.
    While PG has been great this season, he's about to turn 34 and always has those nagging injuries.

    The only reasonable Trae trade would look something like Collins+Keldon+Hawks picks and maybe Chicago pick for Trae.

    But the issue is that even if we get let's say Trae, Naz Reid and a forward, we'd still be left with Tre, Sochan, rookie, Mamu, veteran big bench.
    Way too early to blow your load.

    For the next season I just want a competent point guard and a veteran forward so Wemby can play to his full potential. We probably get to the play-in, which would be satisfactory.
    Too many moving parts in the 2025 draft with all those picks. But we should really be a playoff team in 25/26 season.

  22. #72
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    A sign-and-trade for PG13 is interesting. The Clippers' future drafts are completely ed: they owe their 2024/2026/2028 firsts outright and other teams have swap rights with them in 2025/2027/2029. They don't have any second round picks at all from 2025 to 2029.

    If George wants to come to San Antonio, the Spurs want him, and they can agree on a contract (he will likely want at least 4/190), the Spurs have plenty of assets to get the deal done. Keldon and Collins provide enough matching salary and the Spurs have extra picks for days.

    There is no way Ballmer will let George go over money, especially with the Clippers moving into a new arena, so the only way this would happen is if George threatens to walk if he doesn't get dealt to the Spurs. Certainly a longshot.

    That's a huge contract for someone who will be 34 to start next season, but if the Spurs really want to win now it's hard to imagine a better free agent. If George wants to be a Spur he will know that he's going to be at best the second option, and probably more like 2a/2b with Vassell. There would be no reason to trade for Trae Young at that point. A starting lineup of Tre Jones/Vassell/George/Sochan/Wemby is definitely playable, especially if Jones's 3 point shooting as a starter can carry over.

  23. #73
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    Spurs get lottery magic get picks #2 and Toronto's #7, the Spurs draft Sarr and Dilly with those two picks, and somehow Eddy slides to them in the 2nd round. Then the Celtics have to release or trade to us for something minimal Derrick White. DW can become the defensive point mature leader under Wemby's team. Dilly can be more of instant offense off the bench where his lack of defense won't be as much of an issue. Sarr buys into the "Rodman" role on the team, dedicated to defense and rebounds, allowing Wemby to flourish on offense and pick his spots on defense. Eddy has issues but he can be a much more effective Boban so it increases length which seems to be important for the Spurs. Imagine a lineup of Wemby, Sarr and Eddy on the court, lol. I can't think of an outcome much better than that and it doesn't seem that far out of reach either.

  24. #74
    Every game is game 1 Seventyniner's Avatar
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    I hadn't realized just how ed the Clippers' drafts are for the next 6 years. From 2024 to 2029 they have a total of three firsts and one second.

    2024: Only #47
    2025: A first that the Thunder have swap rights to, no second
    2026: No picks at all
    2027: A first that the Thunder have swap rights to, no second
    2028: No picks at all
    2029: A first that the Sixers have swap rights to, no second

    That's on top of being a luxury tax team for at least the next 2 years if they give George and Harden new contracts, at least if they don't take big pay cuts.

    I wonder at what point the Clippers bite the bullet and realize they have no way to improve the team as things stand. That becomes even more likely if they flame out in the first round.

  25. #75
    Believe.
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    I hadn't realized just how ed the Clippers' drafts are for the next 6 years. From 2024 to 2029 they have a total of three firsts and one second.

    2024: Only #47
    2025: A first that the Thunder have swap rights to, no second
    2026: No picks at all
    2027: A first that the Thunder have swap rights to, no second
    2028: No picks at all
    2029: A first that the Sixers have swap rights to, no second

    That's on top of being a luxury tax team for at least the next 2 years if they give George and Harden new contracts, at least if they don't take big pay cuts.

    I wonder at what point the Clippers bite the bullet and realize they have no way to improve the team as things stand. That becomes even more likely if they flame out in the first round.
    Steve Ballmer is worth 125 billion dollars and it looks like Clippers are his favorite toy. He's going to pay all the luxury tax and then some more.
    They're opening their new arena next season, no way they blow it up.
    The only way any of those stars leaves is if they ask out.

    With that being said, I don't see a single reason why would PG13 prefer Spurs that aren't on his timeline over Sixers that will be in for a full rebuild, more or less. The only players they have on the payroll for the next season are Embiid and Maxey.

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