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I'm far from crazy about O'Neale, tbh. He just seems like the only reasonable 3 and D guy available, now that Allen is off the table.
I can't help myself....
Sign Boban to a final 1 year vet min contract...and then do what you experts collectively say.
I'm far from crazy about O'Neale, tbh. He just seems like the only reasonable 3 and D guy available, now that Allen is off the table.
Caleb Martin, Naji Marshall and Gary Harris.
Last edited by TD 21; 1 Week Ago at 05:47 PM.
Do they downgrade the server during the summer and pay for the better package during the season?Replace the hamster in the fall.
Site is so slow.
just wait till the draft lottoDo they downgrade the server during the summer and pay for the better package during the season?
Site is so slow.
Wemby stays healthy through the Olympics and training camp. I’m cool with anything else.
Whats about:
spurs: Fox and fillers maybe 1st 24 from Kings ( swap if top 3)
Hax: draft capital from Hax/spurs, Keldon, fillers
kings: Young and High pick 2024 from spurs ( with hope top 3)
What do we have to do to get Jonathan Isaac
Watching this game got me into full overreaction mode and I'd give up two mediocre FRPs for Naz Reid.
As good as it gets for Wemby's frontcourt partner if we talk role players and not star forwards.
Get Pat Williams through sign & trade. Keldon and their top 10 protected 1st should get it done. Then draft Kyshawn George.
koriwhat receiving proper tattoo removing training.
Then helping the SA community by providing safe, quality removals at select Spurs games.
Chet and OKC thriving in the POs pust even more on the enormous pressure spurs have to build a PO team around Wemby this summer already.
It's OK, first year Wemby could shock the world and show his incredible talent independently of the losing (he had to do a lot for that, tho). But spurs have to play meaningfull games as soon as next year or people won't care that much and it's not gonna look good for the media, the fans, and first of all for Victor to see him do his thing in another losing season...
Vic wants to break records and make history, and there's no better place than the POs for that, where it really matters, when champions write their legend and legacy. Wemby's not gonnna watch for the next 2 or 3 years Chet and other stars make history while spurs are trying to develop an army of no name rookies, having to deal with Wesleys, Champagnies, Branhams or Barlows... Just adding one or two rookies this June, plus a couple of vets this summer is not gonna do it. And he solution isn't putting Devonte' Graham and Mamu in the starting lineup next year.
Trade for Trae or Dejounte add another couple vets (and draft Risacher or another wing if you can).
Last edited by JPB; 6 Days Ago at 08:45 AM.
I keep hearing from the apologists/homers that the Thunder, who lucked into Gilgeous-Alexander and Holmgren (if you want to give them credit for Williams, fine, but if given truth serum, they'd probably admit they didn't think he'd be this good, at least this soon), are an ideal template because they took a slow, steady approach.
In reality, like most things in sports, they fell ass backwards into it.
Gilgeous-Alexander was thought to have All-Star, not MVP potential. Him initially being the former allowed them to organically do what they did and do so without pressure to accelerate it.
This is a completely different situation and I can't recall a similar one where an organization attempted to treat it otherwise.
That shouldn't take any credit away from OKC, they may not have known just how good SGA (and JDubb) would become, but neither did Denver with Jokic, Milwaukee with Giannis, or even the Spurs with Manu. But they hit on the best players on the board, and from that point on you just develop and hope for the best.
The obvious comparisons for the Spurs current situation are Dallas post Doncid, and Cleveland post LeBron. Both tried to speed it up too much, both got burnt. Clearly the Spurs have to do SOMETHING, but they better think twice before they pull the trigger on any blockbuster, because a couple bad moves may be all it takes and it's all downhill from there.
yeah I'll take that. I hate to see Champ back BUT..... Bridges is like just under 40-minute type guy so Champ would not be important.
If we're talking "ideal" off-season....
1) Get the #1 pick again in the Lottery. And if we don't get it on May 12th -- trade up and get it without using any ATL draft assets.
Ideal package would be our Lottery pick + Vassell, straight up. Addition by subtraction. Spurs will never be more than .500 with Vassell as a 2nd or 3rd option. He doesn't create a mismatch advantage on his own. He doesn't have it between the ears.
Use the #1 to draft Alexandre Sarr. Mismatches win playoff series. He creates another mismatch advantage every night along with Victor. Run those two in high-low game + pick and roll. Keep developing Sarr's long-range shot mechanics, which leads to....
2) Hire a better shooting coach. Ideally -- Chris Jent, Lebron's longtime shooting coach, currently with the Lakers, who will hopefully soon be in disarray if they get swept.
3) Agree with baseline bum -- retain Mamu and Barlow on cheap deals. Not attached to Champagnie at all.
4) Do not make long-term, high-salary, free agency panic moves. Especially for players who are defensive liabilities like Trae Young.
5) Hope the Celtics win the ring and that DWhite plays a big part in it. Need a veteran mentor with a recent ring under their belt. Would love to see him return to the Spurs in 2025, if not sooner.
I suppose you meant Dallas post Dirk, but it's 2024 and none of these teams had Victor, a kid who arguably put the best rookie season in history, may be named DPOTY this year and compete for first all NBA team next one, if not MVP. Not to mention Vic's ambitions and mindset.
It makes sense waiting if you don't have your future franchise player or he's still 3-5 year away from reaching top 10 player level. there's no point in waiting, just for the sake of it or "wisdom" when Wemby will be just that next season. It's actually counter-productive and you're hurting Victor's development, not giving him a team he deserves and needs to reach his full potential with high caliber players around him.
It's not just about the spurs, it's also about Wemby. This is Victor's world here. Let's not fool ourselves believing Vic is quietly gonna eat whatever spurs decide to do and be OK waiting 4 years to make the POs, playng with third stringers, borderline NBA players and rooks who will take 4-5 years to develop into whatever they will, then 7 years to contend... He won't...
POs spots ain't cheap in the West, even for an average team, missing them next year would put the spurs under enormous pressure. Not sure losing picks just for a couple of rental vets for 2 years who won't move that much the needle is the way to go. And you have no guarantees waiting is gonna put in you in a better place regarding available stars.
I get your points like most but I genuinely don't get it.
We keep comparing very diff situations, timmings, rosters, eras, markets etc
It makes no sense...
Most comparisons are closer to correlations than causations and too many "chance" factors that can't be transposed
Not only there aren't any comparable rookie since maybe Shaq but Spurs's roster, draft capital, floor, needs etc have zero comparisons in the past or with other franchises past situations.
Basically anyone can find "arguments" to support any strategy lol. It's absurd
Whatever your prefered strategy is there isn't a past one that can support it imho
I also respect any opinion but I agree that the "this is the way it should be done no matter what" argument, independently of context and situation both for the spurs, Wemby and the NBA, isn't a legit one for me either.
Even if I precisely disagree, I prefer people telling me they believe It's too early to help Wemby now, he's not ready, he should keep develping among rookies and role players the next 4 years, this isn't important to make the POs and really compete now, or just adding more rookies and a couple vets, this team is a surefire PO team anyway, and there will necessarily be great opportunities to sign the "right" star in a few years... than we just shouldn't hurry things because that's not the way it should be done in a vac and this team or that team did it and failed (without having a Wemby).
Unique player, unique situation, unique flexibility for the spurs, unique NBA, unique decisions.
Last edited by JPB; 5 Days Ago at 07:42 AM.
I wasn't clear, I meant Clevelant post DRAFTING LeBron and Dallas post DRAFTING Luka (there isn't a post Luka Dallas -yet-, obviously), in the sense that they were bad teams that found themselves with an All NBA player overnight (or close enough). Both teams tried to speed up the process and made bad decisions which set them back and in Cleveland's case ultimately led to LeBron leaving after his rookie extension.
Now, I have said over and over, that I DON'T think the Spurs should stand pat and hard tank again, in fact even last offseason I wanted to trade for a PG (called for trading for Malcom Brogdon or Monte Morris at least) and another rim protector and some shooting, and was against the "Sochan experiment", Victor and the rest of the young core should have a solid structure behind them so that they can develop properly. If you do all three of those then I think the team drastically changes and is probably fighting for the play in and winning about 35/40 games.
What I am against is going "all in" overpaying for fringe/flawed stars that will help stat pad in the regular season but likely set your ceiling in the playoffs as well. Case in point, the Trae Young proposals that have the Spurs sending Atlanta back all their picks plus some more, or overpaying for Mikal Bridges who isn't really a star and has 2 more years before he'll require a huge pay raise, or getting Khris Middleton, etc. The Spurs can get better right now without the need to go that far, and wait for a better opportunity that really gives the Spurs a real chance as soon as the season after next. My real target would be '25 free agency that has a lot of interesting players whose current situation isn't set in stone (Donovan Mitc , Markkanen, Derrick White, etc). Also, the next 2 drafts are supposed to be loaded, and I would hesitate to burn all those picks right now for a 2 year improvement that may then plateau.
So to be clear, there's a middle way between "hard tank for 3 more years" and "burn the war chest of picks right now", and that's where I am right now. Do whatever improvements are cost efficient RIGHT NOW: Brodgon would cost the Spurs what, 2 2nd riound picks? See if you can trade down or away and poach a young vet from a tanking team (say Avdija from Washington, Simons from Portland, etc), and keep your powder dry when an opportunity presents itself, or go all out in '25 free agency. My goal would be making the play in next season and the playoffs (6th seed or better and advance at least one round) the one following.
Yes, if you're looking for an exact match, there obviously isn't one. So the best you can do is find reasonable comparisons and learn some lessons from them. When I look at past blockbuster trades, the common trend is they all end up in gross overpays and buyer's remorse (Durant to Phoenix, Harden to Brooklyn, Paul George to the Clippers, etc). Trades that work best are usually opportunistic (like Aaron Gordon to Denver, Derrick White or Porzingis to Boston, etc) and make sense all around. If Trae Young costs what is being proposed here (4+ likely lottery picks + youngsters) then I think the Spurs can do better than that by being a little patient and I don't mean YEARS.
This should always be kept in mind imo
Every rules have exceptions and Wemby is the definition of one.
But why? Why would you put blinders on something that has to comparison?
Actually if you search you can find countless contradictives (and misleading) examples!
Just use common sense and the data/infos (that presently tell us not to use past examples in a way^^) we have without over speculating on what we don't control.
It's not just Wemby that is different, it's the Spurs's floor compared to most teams that aquired that type of rookie in the past, had
It's the specific draft capital that Spurs have
It's not just about the Spurs present situation but what's happening and will happen around the league. Like unpredictable opportunities that you have to be ready (not scared of ) to jump on
All these points have nothing to do with the past. I get where's you're at but I really think we're overrating/using examples from the past.
They're often misleading and subject to confusion between correlations and real causations.
I don't get this Cleveland tried to speed it up narrative. Cleveland ed it all up by losing Carlos Boozer when the owner thought he could trick him into signing a below market value contract. And right before that making their own Primo pick in Luke Jackson. Then the next year the Larry Hughes signing was disastrous. None of those things were Cleveland trading future for present.
Tanking would be idioitc because Wemby is already too good and I have no doubt that he'll be even better when the next season starts.
Pistons, Wizards, Portland are guaranteed to be garbage again. If Wemby is healthy, there's no way Spurs are worse than them.
Nets and Raptors are a mess, Spurs were clearly better than them at the end of the season. Yeah, they shut some players down and tried to tank, but they don't have enough talent.
Hornets have talent, but are a joke and always find a way to implode.
That's 6 bad teams already.
Then we have teams that are past their expiry date.
Bulls, Hawks, Warriors, Lakers, even Suns and Clippers.
Not all of them will decide it's pointless to continue with current roster, but I bet that at least 2 of those 6 will blow it up.
And there's obviously Jazz. They'll either make trades to improve and keep Markkanen happy or they blow it up, which is undoubtedly Ainge's wish.
I'm against Spurs going all in and trading away a lot of picks, but we simply need two quality starters for the next season. Not necessarily all-stars, but two players that will actually allow us to function like a proper basketball team out there.
It depends on if we get a point guard, but I don't think Tre+rookie is a good idea. Tre isn't good enough to start and none of the rookies in this draft will be ready day one. Just get a competent point guard and have rookie as a backup if that's what they want. But I'd rather just draft wings. And obviously get a 3-D wing we desperately need, we went over the names plenty of times.
But the most important thing is to get rid of Collins. Priority #1.
Bassey's knees are shot and Barlow is just too small. Get a veteran as a backup. Someone like Drummond or Plumlee.
PG: Quality starter with Tre or rookie as backup. Give Wesley another season as a third stringer.
SG: Vassell, Champagnie and Branham.
SF: Jeremy and a rookie. If rookie can't shoot, Jeremy starts. Sidy as third stringer.
PF: Quality 3-D wing to be the glue guy. Mamu as backup. Another rookie if Raptors' pick conveys.
C: Wemby and veteran. Barlow as third stringer.
Should be enough for a play-in spot contention. Quality PG would enable everyone to develop as quickly as possible and into the best version of themselves.
Then go big in 2025 depending on available targets and how the draft goes. By then, all those West teams I mentioned being close to their expiry date will surely be done.
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