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  1. #251
    Veteran Sugus's Avatar
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    Personally, I'm hoping the FO isn't putting much stock in the 25 FA class because I don't think many of those guys will end up actual FAs. Extensions will start to roll in this summer and that impressive FA class will quickly thin out to look a lot like this one (IMO). Extension rules (among other things) have essentially killed FA at this point.
    Yeah, trades are the way to acquire big talent nowadays. But still I'd like to see them try out the FA class, especially Derrick if available. He'd be a great great pairing with Wemby, and he's entering his prime right now. Could be a bigger signing than most think.

    In any case, I hope the Spurs remain active in all avenues instead of waiting for deadlines. We'll see what happens, but unlike this year, I'm not hoping for a tank next season at all. Wemby's made his wish clear enough for the FO to respect it. With talent like that, and that height/frame, you just can't afford to wait around.

  2. #252
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    This again? All I did was make one of my patented sarcastic comments, which as usual you took overly seriously, threw a hissy fit, took a bunch of shots, pontificated and are now pretending I don't understand something that is basic when I was merely agreeing with another poster.
    Me saying your argument doesn't make sense isn't "taking a shot". Me asking you support your assertions isn't either. You calling folks naive is closer to a shot than any thing I've said. But if you want to drop this part of the conversation, I'm not against it.

    Says the guy telling me, who actually follows the league closely, to "look into Portis" without actually saying anything specific to counter what I said.

    Yeah and they're still as shady as ever. Instead of your preconceived notion of why I don't like them, maybe you and others who have some issue with it should be asking yourself how I have some of the information I do instead of questioning virtually everything I say.
    You "following the NBA closely" isn't some point we all take as a given. These comments I guess imply you have some special insight that means we should defer to you, but you've never demonstrated that. You're just another fan as far as I can tell. While I'm sure some Spurs fans follow the league less than you, you seem to put too much weight into how much you think others follow the NBA compared to you. Somehow, that has led to you rarely providing support for you takes because you dismiss disagreeing opinions as less informed or naive.

    You can actually just Google Portis, watch his interviews and read his Wiki article to find out what kind of player he seems to be. It's hard to justify defaulting to believe he is "too black" without making the extreme icky assumption that him punching a dude somehow adds to his blackness.

    Again, starting caliber is what I meant, so I'm "claiming" it despite your desire to make it about Young again.
    No. The reason why you can't claim is because basically everyone this side of Bod wants the Spurs to bring in starting caliber players. We're debating what level of starting-caliber players the team should go for and at what cost. You can't meaningfully back into the "starting caliber" hole and maintain a disagreement. That position would be completely compatible with what I've said I hold, and you know you don't agree with that. Me specifically talking about "Young-esque" players is taking the argument you're making seriously and actually trying to discuss the merits of that level of commitment rather than trying to play word games.

    Yeah, within' a perceived championship context. The notion that he'd be fine spending his twilight here is ludicrous for so many reasons.
    Not every player spends their last years winning les. The Warriors may not win another le with Curry, but I don't know how many people expect him to demand out. Durant has rings. What he seemed to realize is that he cares about his legacy more than championships. Durant has been chasing winning "his own ring" for the past few years. While there are situations where Durant would still be the best player on his team, the time and places are running out. So how can Kevin wrap up his story to rebuild the broken parts of his legacy? OKC might be able to fix it, though him joining the 1-seed would sour the home-coming somewhat. I don't know that the returning to the New York media to play second-fiddle to Brunson is all that appealing.

    San Antonio is one of the rare locations where he would get a legacy boost no matter what. If he carries the Spurs to a le, he gets "his own ring". If Wemby carries him to a ring, he gets to be the David Robinson to Victor's Duncan. If they don't win anything, he gets to be a mentor on a team that wasn't seriously expecting to win a le anyway. That a team would get to slowly grow around him is arguably the best counter to the rising narrative of Durant going from team to team demanding changes to get his guys and than leave them in shambles after failing to capitalize on the roster he helped build.

    Yeah, within' a perceived championship context. The notion that he'd be fine spending his twilight here is ludicrous for so many reasons.
    Unlike the Spurs, the Knicks have to add salary to a Durant trade on top of Randle. Ishiba may be willing to miss out on massive savings and have no interest in letting his FO maintain flexibility. My guess is the Suns would want that ballast to be more worthwhile than Bogdanovic. I'm not sure the Knicks would want to eat into their defensive core by trading Hart or DiVencenzo though. Maybe a third team could be pursuaded to give up a better fit for Bogs and a pick, but then you're playing a balancing game between how many assets the Knicks are willing to part with to get Durant and how many assets the Suns need to have after paying the third team to make moving KD worthwhile.

    Giddey, possibly Dort for salary/value and a portion of their unprecedented draft capital would be far better than Murray and ?
    You seem to be conflating what OKC could offer if they aren't attached to conserving their roster with what they would offer practically. We don't know how much if at all they want Durant. I'm sure the Suns would love Dort. I'm not sure they'd love him over Murray, and Giddy's a contract needing an extension as much as he's a young player with potential at this point.

  3. #253
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    Draft Dillingham, draft a big body center "Edey" and maybe land KD.

  4. #254
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    I hope Cavaliers blow up, and Mitc become available

  5. #255
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    2025-2026 San Antonio Spurs


    Starters:


    Jones, Vassell, Edgecombe, Markkanen, Wemby


    Bench:


    Sheppard, Harper, Johnson, Sochan, Zollins


    Third string:


    Wesley, Champ, Mamu


    Jones/Sheppard + Wesley
    Vassell/Harper
    Edgecombe/Johnson + Champ
    Markkanen/Sochan + Mamu
    Wemby/Zollins


    Harper/Jones/Wesley
    Vassell/Edgecombe/Sheppard
    Sochan/Johnson/Champ
    Markkanen/Ruzic/Mamu
    Wemby/Zollins/Ivisic


    SAS 2024 #4 = Reed Sheppard
    TOR conveys 2025 #8 = Dylan Harper
    ATL 2025 #9 = VJ Edgecombe
    SAS 2025 #16 = Michael Ruzic
    CHI 2RP #34 = Zvonimir Ivisic
    CHI & CHA do not convey 2025


    2025 Free Agent = Lauri Markkanen


    Still have draft assets:


    CHI 2026 FRP
    (top 8 protected 26 & 27, then two 2RPs)


    CHA now converted to 2026 2RP + 2027 2RP


    ATL 2026 FRP SWAP
    ATL 2027 FRP
    BOS 2028 FRP SWAP
    DAL 2030 FRP SWAP


    + all SAS natural FRPs and a ton of 2RPs

  6. #256
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    I hope Cavaliers blow up, and Mitc become available
    Looks like a Kemba/Kawhi situation already with him, counting the days before his knees just gives in.

  7. #257
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    I think to get players to buy into being in San Antonio it will be a variety of types:

    Rookies we draft. Complementary veterans looking for a contract. Foreign players less invested in typical American status.

    Who I don't think will want to be into San Antonio: most American born stars. Players like Durant, Spida Mitc ...I just don't see it. They're either cancers or just want to get to a coastal dominant market.

    So I'm not promoting going slow just to go slow, but I'd hate to give up all our assets to get a player who bails very quickly after making a bunch of demands.

    Now if a star actually wants to come here, then sure explore that option completely. But the NBA is full of quick fix franchises in chaos now: Brooklyn, Phoenix, Lakers, Clippers. I don't know. They have built in advantages but it's a boom/bust cycle they are on, and I don't think SA can operate like that and expect to stay in SA.

    I have no idea if Pop sees it that way or if the FO is just inherently cautious and risk adverse.

    Just rambling but seems like we need to start winning the draft while finding complementary veterans to raise the floor so Wemby doesn't think we are tanking.

  8. #258
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Siakam.

    While i was rooting for Indy to implode the Milwaukee owner and front office with their corrupt pick of Coq Rivers....

    Would have welcomed Siakam if the price was right.

  9. #259
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    No idea of the feasability but I'd love PATFO to try to get either PG13, KD or Derrick White

  10. #260
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    Me saying your argument doesn't make sense isn't "taking a shot". Me asking you support your assertions isn't either. You calling folks naive is closer to a shot than any thing I've said. But if you want to drop this part of the conversation, I'm not against it.
    I didn't say it did, just that you found time to fill your usual quota.

    Support? Are were in court or are we offering basketball opinions on a message board?


    You "following the NBA closely" isn't some point we all take as a given. These comments I guess imply you have some special insight that means we should defer to you, but you've never demonstrated that. You're just another fan as far as I can tell. While I'm sure some Spurs fans follow the league less than you, you seem to put too much weight into how much you think others follow the NBA compared to you. Somehow, that has led to you rarely providing support for you takes because you dismiss disagreeing opinions as less informed or naive.

    You can actually just Google Portis, watch his interviews and read his Wiki article to find out what kind of player he seems to be. It's hard to justify defaulting to believe he is "too black" without making the extreme icky assumption that him punching a dude somehow adds to his blackness.
    We? I'm talking to you; try as you might, you don't represent the board in this never ending crusade you (and some of these miserable old men) have against me.

    In all the years you've "known" me on here, have I ever presented myself as an insider or been known to lie about anything? Maybe consider taking that into consideration when I make assertions about the Craptors.

    Here's my "support": 30 years of evidence that says they strongly prefer to avoid certain types of players, whether they're actually like that or just present themselves as such (an undeniable point you keep ignoring).

    That incident is not at all why I said what I did about Portis (more preconceived notions).

    Not every player spends their last years winning les. The Warriors may not win another le with Curry, but I don't know how many people expect him to demand out. Durant has rings. What he seemed to realize is that he cares about his legacy more than championships. Durant has been chasing winning "his own ring" for the past few years. While there are situations where Durant would still be the best player on his team, the time and places are running out. So how can Kevin wrap up his story to rebuild the broken parts of his legacy? OKC might be able to fix it, though him joining the 1-seed would sour the home-coming somewhat. I don't know that the returning to the New York media to play second-fiddle to Brunson is all that appealing.

    San Antonio is one of the rare locations where he would get a legacy boost no matter what. If he carries the Spurs to a le, he gets "his own ring". If Wemby carries him to a ring, he gets to be the David Robinson to Victor's Duncan. If they don't win anything, he gets to be a mentor on a team that wasn't seriously expecting to win a le anyway. That a team would get to slowly grow around him is arguably the best counter to the rising narrative of Durant going from team to team demanding changes to get his guys and than leave them in shambles after failing to capitalize on the roster he helped build.
    Again, completely ignorant as to how this league works. Players of this magnitude don't ride off into the sunset on re-building teams and Durant clearly wants his "own" championship to boost his legacy.

    Unlike the Spurs, the Knicks have to add salary to a Durant trade on top of Randle. Ishiba may be willing to miss out on massive savings and have no interest in letting his FO maintain flexibility. My guess is the Suns would want that ballast to be more worthwhile than Bogdanovic. I'm not sure the Knicks would want to eat into their defensive core by trading Hart or DiVencenzo though. Maybe a third team could be pursuaded to give up a better fit for Bogs and a pick, but then you're playing a balancing game between how many assets the Knicks are willing to part with to get Durant and how many assets the Suns need to have after paying the third team to make moving KD worthwhile.
    This is what I mean by acting as if I don't know that (and yes, you should know better). I'm talking about a base of a hypothetical that I believe has virtually no chance of occurring this off season anyway.

    You seem to be conflating what OKC could offer if they aren't attached to conserving their roster with what they would offer practically. We don't know how much if at all they want Durant. I'm sure the Suns would love Dort. I'm not sure they'd love him over Murray, and Giddy's a contract needing an extension as much as he's a young player with potential at this point.
    Again ignoring the unprecedented draft capital they possess, some of which would undoubtedly be used to buttress their potential package.

  11. #261
    Veteran R. DeMurre's Avatar
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    My ideal off-season would just be PATFO making the smartest moves with the situations they find in front of them, regardless of any rigid pre-conceived philosophy of how to improve around Wemby. If an impactful player becomes available via trade, look at that, of course-- but if not (which is extremely possible), just do your homework and draft well, and evaluate all the current players for future considerations. A good quote here to consider is John Wooden's "never mistake activity for achievement."
    I'm not against being proactive at all-- in fact, I think they waited too long on Keldon, and missed out on his highest trade value, but what's done is done, and the future's still wide open with all of those draft picks.

  12. #262
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    What do folks think Trae’s value is right now? Salary and 2 real FRPs, or more?

    And if that’s the case, what is the valuation on DJ? Salary plus 1 real FRP?

  13. #263
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    What do folks think Trae’s value is right now? Salary and 2 real FRPs, or more?

    And if that’s the case, what is the valuation on DJ? Salary plus 1 real FRP?
    I don't know about value to other teams, but I don't think the Hawks move Young and Murray for any less than 3.5 and 2.5 "good" assets respectively. By that I mean, a combination of quality 1sts and young, cost controlled starting caliber players.

  14. #264
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    I didn't say it did, just that you found time to fill your usual quota.
    I'm done, Teeds. I think this vein of conversation has run its course. You can take it however you want, but at this point this back-and-forth has taken up much of the recent thread activity and bogged down what is supposed to be a pluripotent topic.

  15. #265
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    2025-2026 San Antonio Spurs


    Starters:


    Jones, Vassell, Edgecombe, Markkanen, Wemby


    Bench:


    Sheppard, Harper, Johnson, Sochan, Zollins


    Third string:


    Wesley, Champ, Mamu


    Jones/Sheppard + Wesley
    Vassell/Harper
    Edgecombe/Johnson + Champ
    Markkanen/Sochan + Mamu
    Wemby/Zollins


    Harper/Jones/Wesley
    Vassell/Edgecombe/Sheppard
    Sochan/Johnson/Champ
    Markkanen/Ruzic/Mamu
    Wemby/Zollins/Ivisic


    SAS 2024 #4 = Reed Sheppard
    TOR conveys 2025 #8 = Dylan Harper
    ATL 2025 #9 = VJ Edgecombe
    SAS 2025 #16 = Michael Ruzic
    CHI 2RP #34 = Zvonimir Ivisic
    CHI & CHA do not convey 2025


    2025 Free Agent = Lauri Markkanen


    Still have draft assets:


    CHI 2026 FRP
    (top 8 protected 26 & 27, then two 2RPs)


    CHA now converted to 2026 2RP + 2027 2RP


    ATL 2026 FRP SWAP
    ATL 2027 FRP
    BOS 2028 FRP SWAP
    DAL 2030 FRP SWAP


    + all SAS natural FRPs and a ton of 2RPs
    Looks like for this offseason we only added Reed Sheppard and completely ran it back. So, not seeing how we make the playoffs and end up with the #16 pick based on that, personally. Also, I would have it if that were our offseason this year, personally.

  16. #266
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    What do folks think Trae’s value is right now? Salary and 2 real FRPs, or more?

    And if that’s the case, what is the valuation on DJ? Salary plus 1 real FRP?
    I think there is likely a stark difference between Trae's true value and what ATL would accept. Meaning, I think it will take more to acquire him that what he's actually worth at this point... at least until he demands a trade.

  17. #267
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Ugh, so I typed up a whole scenario before Chrome decided to refresh.

    I'll try to recreate it.

    Assumptions:

    - The draft order doesn't change or at least doesn't change for SAS, TOR or ATL
    - The Spurs have ~$25 Million in cap space.
    - Booker requests a trade

    Trades:

    -SAS trades Graham, cash and a second to Detroit for a fake second

    The Spurs get a bit more cap space by paying Detroit to each DeVonte's guarantee.

    -SAS trades Vassell, Sochan 5, TOR25, ATL 27 and best of SAS25, ATL25 and CHI25 for Booker and 10
    -PHX trades Booker, Nurkic and 22 for Murray, Sochan, 5, TOR25, ATL27 and the best of SAS25, ATL25 and CHI25
    - ATL trade Murray, Capela and 10 for Vassell, Nurkic, 22 and the worst of SAS25, ATL25 and CHI25

    Spurs get a superstar at a steep but affordable price
    Suns get two starting pieces, three firsts and a jump from 22 to 5 while also saving on Nurkic's last year
    Hawks get a native-born two-guard to play with Young and can use the Capella/Nurkic swap to refresh their trade exception

    SAS trades Julian Champangie and CHA25 to BRK for Dorian Finney-Smith

    Spurs eek out DFS to be their starting PF with the last bit of their cap space
    Nets get a first and a youngish cost-controlled player for what could easily be an expiring contract

    Draft:

    -At 10, the Spurs select Cody Williams
    -At 35, the Spurs select Harrison Ingram
    -At 48, the Spurs selection Trey Alexander

    Free Agency:

    Sandro Mamukelashvili returns on a $8M/2 contract
    Malachi Flynn joins on a $13M/4 contract (with only the first year guaranteed)

    Roster:

    Jones, Wesley, Flynn
    Booker, Branham, Alexander
    Williams, Johnson, Cissoko
    Finney-Smith, Mamukelashvili, Ingram
    Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey


    Comments:

    I don't like this nearly as much as the other one. Teams don't need three superstars, but the Spurs would really be relying on Williams developing for the roster to have enough talent. Johnson is fine again as the sixth man, but it's kind of amazing that the second unit barely changed despite six players being added to the roster. Ideally, some ring-chasers could join the team so the second-rounders could be two-ways instead of being signed to the 15-man squad. Regardless, the team would be going into the 2025 off-season trying to use the full MLE to upgrade their PG spot. It could work out, but the clock is ticking.

  18. #268
    Spur Forever urunobili's Avatar
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    Draft Zach Edey….

  19. #269
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Appreciate the scenario Chinook!

    I don't know the cap numbers off the top of my head, but if we could somehow keep Nurk and send off Collins, that would be an extra cherry. My other hope would be Holland to be there at 10 instead of Williams.

    Love getting Booker, don't love that we're left with the same PG issues along with SG and PF depth issues.

    Thanks for throwing some food for thought out there.

  20. #270
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Appreciate the scenario Chinook!

    I don't know the cap numbers off the top of my head, but if we could somehow keep Nurk and send off Collins, that would be an extra cherry. My other hope would be Holland to be there at 10 instead of Williams.

    Love getting Booker, don't love that we're left with the same PG issues along with SG and PF depth issues.

    Thanks for throwing some food for thought out there.
    I don't know them too well either, but going from like 5 and 7 to just 10 opens up a considerable bit of room. I wanted to go with completely different players for this scenario, which is why trading for DFS and drafting Williams replaced signing O'Neale and drafting Holland. But you could change those out with most of the structure of the off-season being conserved.

    I had considered doing a scenario that involved Vassell for Durant, but it's actually really hard to make that trade worthwhile for the Spurs. There aren't that many three-and-D SGs that can be had for what the Spurs could offer. I think a Dillingham/Durant/Wembanyama scoring trio is viable in the modern NBA though, and with the right role-players, it could grow into something. It's harder to figure out a suitable third option for Booker. An offense-first PG doesn't make a ton of sense, and an guy like Knecht could provide some scoring, but if both of your wings are weak defenders, it puts a larger burden on getting a defensive PG. Most defensive PGs aren't great at running the offense, and that's still really necessary for a Booker/Knecht/PF/Wemby unit.

  21. #271
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    Looks like for this offseason we only added Reed Sheppard and completely ran it back. So, not seeing how we make the playoffs and end up with the #16 pick based on that, personally. Also, I would have it if that were our offseason this year, personally.
    Good point scott yeah playoffs is the goal but realistically that might be more like a #12 or so but I'm trying to be optimistic based on the tail end of 23-24 season that at least some of Wemby, Vassell, Sochan, Johnson, Jones somewhat turn a corner or continue to develop further or the team coalesces or at least stabilizes to a degree though that may be up for debate understandably so. That's a lot of players still developing to call going 0-5 on, even Wemby alone will be advancing in skillsets as a pretty safe bet imho tbh just a matter of if it translates to significant wins or not.

    Don't have to twist my arm to get more firmly into the lottery in a draft like 2025 lol but I'm like you hoping for a bit more success next season though doubtful if that can come from running it back so fully. Group D or bust, lol

  22. #272
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    My main problem is I don't really like much of the FAs this offseason. Don't even see a big splash to make but the team probably does need to bring somebody in

    If Markkanen was a Free Agent 2024 instead of next year 2025 I would be calling for throwing the bag at him like send all the churros necessary to get the deal inked

  23. #273
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    Ideal Scenario currently, both picks convey. We draft Risacher at 3 and Jared McCain with the TOR pick. We sign Gary Trent Jr and a big maybe Valanciunas?

    Id like to make the big splash but it’s hard to do after 1 year

  24. #274
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    still believe we gut this team....Think we move on from wesley and branham and even tre jones.They are so average,They dont
    do anything special to make our team better.Think we can upgrade and do better then those guys imo.Keldon,vassell,sochan idk
    what to think of them,They didnt seem to have much chemistry with wemby.Like some tension or weird energy between them
    or something.

  25. #275
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    All these trade scenarios, while appreciated, are reinforcing view that they should largely stay pat for one more summer. I’m highly wary of cashing in all the chips right now. I’d much rather the Spurs tell ATL, CLE, DET or whoever, “check in with us after you’ve gotten best offers from other teams,” and then decide if they want to beat it.

    Two things I am watching for:

    - When will they move Keldon? His max trade value starts now until Feb 2026.

    - if TOR rolls over to 25, will having multiple 2025 FRPs actually depress their value vis-a-vis each other? And what does that do to the FO’s planning?

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