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  1. #1
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    The past gives us an idea of whatís to come in the future.

    1. Signed Sir Jabari Rice to a two way - C: eventually waived but canít hate on what they do with two way contracts since itís rare that it works out, IMO

    2. 3 Way Trade To Land Cedi and Lamar Stevens - B: Cedi has been a nice vet addition and frankly, not sure who else they could have signed that is comparable to what Cedi does for us. This was a savvy move, tbh.

    3. 3 Way Trade to Land Bullock and some picks - TBD: We wonít see the fruit until way later

    4. Trade with Suns for Cam Payne and a 2nd rd pick - TBD: We wonít see the fruit until way later. We waived Payne but he didnít want to be here anyways.

    5. Signed Tre Jones to multi year deal - B+: annual average salary of $9.5M is a bargain for this solid backup PG

    6. Barlow to two way then to standard contract - C: The Spurs gambled to see what they have in Barlow and while he is an OK player, I think they will be moving on soon. But maybe not? I just donít know how he fits with Collins here and him not really meshing all that well with Wemby (when you see what Mamu has done)

    7. Sidy to a multi year deal - B+: Iíve watched this kid closely throughout the year and he had a lot of growth. Heís a nice prospect for the Spurs.

    8. Signed Mamu - B-: We donít really know what the future holds for Mamu but if he does sign another contract with us for next year and beyond, then this grade goes up because it shows the Spurs are able to find diamonds in the rough.

  2. #2
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    ^ Signed Wemby to a multiyear deal. A- Iíve watched this kid closely throughout the year and he had a lot of growth. Heís a nice prospect for the Spurs.

  3. #3
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Great thread. You left off a few key moves that I think require grading:

    9. Extended Zach Collins for 2/$35. Grade: D-. Zach's tough year aside, by virtue of the fact that he'll be a backup C through the life of his contract warrants this grade. Backup centers aren't hard to come by and they certainly don't warrant $17MM/year. The onl reason this isn't an F is because he has some skill, as bad as this season was.

    10. Extended Vassell for 5/$135. Grade: C+/B-. To explain my grade, I'll start out by saying that "C" means average in the typical American grading scale, and a B is "above average" and that's how I use it here. So, in my mind this only slightly better than an average move. Devin is talented and promising, but it's still a contract that is betting on the come and hoping that Devin elevates himself to a higher level. Right now though it looks like he projects to the 3rd or 4th best player on a championship caliber team, so in that context it's an overpay. With that said, the declining structure of the deal is nice.

  4. #4
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    I give the 23 offseason a C - meh. Most of the moves didn't move the needle much in this 22 win season, but they were made clearly with the future in mind. The players we traded for and cut landed on other teams however we got picks, no gain this season but probably will benefit us later. We didn't even get much for McNuggets. The Sidy and Mamu signings hold promise, but Barlow and 2 of the 3 two ways may not be back. Add Branham and I have a hard time making a layup Wesley to that list as well. Its possible 4-6 slots may be up for grabs by new additions.

    So we had some good and some so so signings. So long as we improved just a bit, I'm OK with that and am looking forward to the next round of draft picks and signings. It will look different next season, in spite of what the circus clowns at ESPN say.

  5. #5
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    Great thread. You left off a few key moves that I think require grading:

    9. Extended Zach Collins for 2/$35. Grade: D-. Zach's tough year aside, by virtue of the fact that he'll be a backup C through the life of his contract warrants this grade. Backup centers aren't hard to come by and they certainly don't warrant $17MM/year. The onl reason this isn't an F is because he has some skill, as bad as this season was.

    10. Extended Vassell for 5/$135. Grade: C+/B-. To explain my grade, I'll start out by saying that "C" means average in the typical American grading scale, and a B is "above average" and that's how I use it here. So, in my mind this only slightly better than an average move. Devin is talented and promising, but it's still a contract that is betting on the come and hoping that Devin elevates himself to a higher level. Right now though it looks like he projects to the 3rd or 4th best player on a championship caliber team, so in that context it's an overpay. With that said, the declining structure of the deal is nice.
    I don’t know how the F I missed that. I was using the transactions page on basketballreference. F- for Collins for sure.

  6. #6
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    The real problem with this kind of grading is that you're missing opportunity cost; you're not considering moves that we didn't do (or apparently decided not to try for, like Reaves). Which is admittedly hard to assess, but really needs to be considered.

  7. #7
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I give the 23 offseason a C - meh. Most of the moves didn't move the needle much in this 22 win season, but they were made clearly with the future in mind. The players we traded for and cut landed on other teams however we got picks, no gain this season but probably will benefit us later. We didn't even get much for McNuggets. The Sidy and Mamu signings hold promise, but Barlow and 2 of the 3 two ways may not be back. Add Branham and I have a hard time making a layup Wesley to that list as well. Its possible 4-6 slots may be up for grabs by new additions.

    So we had some good and some so so signings. So long as we improved just a bit, I'm OK with that and am looking forward to the next round of draft picks and signings. It will look different next season, in spite of what the circus clowns at ESPN say.
    Why would you give it a C-? Practically nothing happened of longterm or medium term importance. They flipped some assets and cap space for future picks and that's pretty much it. Is it residual angst about not, like, keeping Cam Payne, which was some big thing on this board in the late summer? There was such anxiety that we didn't keep him.

    Not sure what people wanted or think could have happened. What they did was squeeze some assets out of stones and then maybe, possibly, give a little extra money to a couple of players. That's it. Team: We want to take it slow and not make huge deals, we don't know how to play with this big French guy yet. Fanbase: Where are the huge deals?

  8. #8
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    The real problem with this kind of grading is that you're missing opportunity cost; you're not considering moves that we didn't do (or apparently decided not to try for, like Reaves). Which is admittedly hard to assess, but really needs to be considered.
    Right, in which case this was B+ at worst, probably an A, as there was no lasting damage done whatsoever. Instead they got some assets.

    And, lol on Reaves. I feel like last summer traumatized people here for some reason.

  9. #9
    Make a trade steal
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    Team landed Wemby(lucky) and ended up exactly with the same win total as last year. F for the front office moves to improve the team for this year. The year was a total failure.

    F grade based on results

  10. #10
    I make love to pressure. CapitalEmm's Avatar
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    The team lost 60 games in a year that by all accounts, wasn’t an intentional tank year with a weak draft class coming up.

    Anything above a D- is too kind.

  11. #11
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    The most impactful move of the summer was the Collins contract and it's just gotten worse and worse as the year went on. That being said, most of us thought it was fine last summer, so can't act like we knew it was going to be this awful. Still, ing atrocious extension that really hurts their cap room this year and the next for a position we should be getting extreme value on. There's no reason to overpay for a backup center in this league.

  12. #12
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    The most impactful move of the summer was the Collins contract and it's just gotten worse and worse as the year went on. That being said, most of us thought it was fine last summer, so can't act like we knew it was going to be this awful. Still, ing atrocious extension that really hurts their cap room this year and the next for a position we should be getting extreme value on. There's no reason to overpay for a backup center in this league.
    he wasnt considered a backup. he was starting alongside wemby who they had playing the 4. collins' outside shot fell off a cliff in the first half of the year and the pairing didnt work (though it was also coinciding with the disastrous point sochan experiment)

    tho post ASB, zollins was hitting over 47% of his 3's

  13. #13
    Make a trade steal
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    he wasnt considered a backup. he was starting alongside wemby who they had playing the 4. collins' outside shot fell off a cliff in the first half of the year and the pairing didnt work (though it was also coinciding with the disastrous point sochan experiment)

    tho post ASB, zollins was hitting over 47% of his 3's
    Bad move to invest in a limited athletic white center who doesn't have the size to be a strong defender.

  14. #14
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Bad move to invest in a limited athletic white center who doesn't have the size to be a strong defender.
    what if he was limited athletically and didnt have the size to be a strong defender but was black

  15. #15
    Veteran Dejounte's Avatar
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    The team lost 60 games in a year that by all accounts, wasnít an intentional tank year with a weak draft class coming up.

    Anything above a D- is too kind.
    I think people need to separate the individual transactions from the seasonís outcome. That was my idea for this thread anyways. You can make good moves without them directly correlating to short term goals. So for example, we should be judging the Collins extension by his performance and the overall value of his contract based on his 2023-2024 campaign.

  16. #16
    Believe. TekXX's Avatar
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    Why would you give it a C-? Practically nothing happened of longterm or medium term importance. They flipped some assets and cap space for future picks and that's pretty much it. Is it residual angst about not, like, keeping Cam Payne, which was some big thing on this board in the late summer? There was such anxiety that we didn't keep him.

    Not sure what people wanted or think could have happened. What they did was squeeze some assets out of stones and then maybe, possibly, give a little extra money to a couple of players. That's it. Team: We want to take it slow and not make huge deals, we don't know how to play with this big French guy yet. Fanbase: Where are the huge deals?
    So the Spurs did nothing to make this team better and you want to give an A, naw i'd say a C is perfect.

  17. #17
    Make a trade steal
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    what if he was limited athletically and didnt have the size to be a strong defender but was black
    Limited athletic black centers without size to be a strong defender won't even be in the league.

  18. #18
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I would only change the TBD grades on 3 and 4. I don't think we need to wait and see what those picks become to put a grade on them - that portion will have a separate draft grade later.

    For the Bullock deal, I'd give it an A. We basically got a free roll at a far our future swap in exchange for some cap space that we had to use anyway. I don't think it cost the Spurs from making any signings.

    For the Payne deal, I'd give it a B. Got a free 2025 SRP that cost us nothing but some cap allocation that wasn't going to be used anyway. I only rate it a B because it's only an SRP, so I don't think an "A" is really in the considerable range of grades for that kind of move. Would have be nice to get a player who wanted to be here and contribute, but not sure we would have given him any playing time even if he was (See Graham, Devontae).

  19. #19
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Limited athletic black centers without size to be a strong defender won't even be in the league.
    kevon looney started for a championship team

  20. #20
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    Zach Collins April stats were pretty good for a backup center, 13ppg, 7reb, 2ast, 1blk, 52%, 41% from three. His per 36 was good all season. The eye test says he does not fit with Wemby. Unless he can get his 3 pointers up while keeping some type of % up, he does not work. Unless you see him a pure backup and starter when Wemby is out for the next few seasons.

  21. #21
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Good thread idea, Dejounte

    Draft:

    Wembanyama: A-plus -- I guess they could've traded the pick to get Chet. But besides that scenario, Wemby's everything the Spurs could've dreamed of.
    Cissoko: B-plus -- It's not likely that Sidy doesn't make the team next year given his contract. But the team may not be able to keep that roster spot if things shake down a certain way. The Spurs played the draft very well if they would've drafted Cissoko with their natural pick but were able to get two picks while still snagging him later. Hopefully he gets the time to develop, though he needs to show more this summer if he's going to keep his status as "interesting prospect" given the new blood that should also be coming into camp

    Two-ways:

    Rice: C -- Low upside player when the Spurs should've been taking fliers
    Barlow: B-plus -- In a world where there are guys like Williams and Jackson going from two-ways to rotation players on great deals, you can't give Dom an A. But he's been a very good deep-bench player and has a future in the league. Can't really expect more from such a signing.
    Bediako: F -- Didn't need a center, especially with Barlow basically a lock to return. The team should've been looking a wings or PGs.

    Re-signings:

    Jones: B-plus -- He's been everything you could expect for the money. He gives the Spurs a decent floor going into the off-season and really seemed to improve. No idea where the team would be without him. Only issue was the length. There are few scenarios where the Spurs couldn't use a Tre-level player for two more years at least. Hopefully he re-ups again if the Spurs need him to.
    Mamukelashvili: C-plus -- One of the weirder moves given the cap games the team was playing. He's been a fine deep-bench PF. People might be too high on him due to his late-season surge. His defense was awful most of the year. Not being able to play center really hurts his long-term chances to stick in the NBA. But given the contract, there are no reasons to complain.
    Champangie: B -- Solid guy who's on a good contract. Seems to have a decent rep around the league. Hopefully he's not starting next year, but he has value on that deal. It's hard to rate it low given the non-guaranteed years.

    Extensions:

    Vassell: B-plus/A-minus -- This would be a B or even B-minus if Collins weren't extended. His contract is good, and a lot of people who don't think so probably aren't looking around the league and seeing what players of his caliber cost. The only issue is the timing. They left money on the table this summer to get that extension done, and while I think he got a good deal for what he is, giving up that much salary flexibility limited the moves the team can realistically make. I do think Detroit might've backed up a truck for Devin, but it would've been nice to have the options.
    Collins: C-minus -- It's only not an F because of Vassell's extension. Had Zach not gotten extended, the Spurs probably get to trade him at the deadline for some picks and go into the off-season with an interesting amount of room. Without Wemby, there are scenarios where Collins could be worth his contract. But in retrospect, it's hard to see another team offering a deal so large as to make Collins' current contract a bargain. Zach's a decent single-big option and may well find room for improvement. For a big, he's still young. But I firmly believe the team needs to cycle in new talent at that position, and committing to two years of substantial salary to a back-up of inconsistent quality feels like the worst development against that goal.

    Trades:

    Osman/Stevens: B -- Osman was a solid Spur, and it seems his teammates like him. It's just hard to know if there were better paths to take than selling off cap space.
    Payne: C-minus -- This was probably the turning point for the off-season where the Spurs set themselves up for this past year. They got a viable player at a position of need along with a pick. It could've been a nice trade, but the team's complete disinterest in compe ion and insistence on having Sochan play PG were evident in this move. I don't know if that was because the team intended to tank or if they were just that confident in the young guys, but this year could've looked completely different had they approached this part of the summer differently.
    Bullock: B-minus -- I was famously throwing cold water on the hype over the "unprotected" swap the Spurs got from Dallas for facilitating this deal, but it was better than nothing. I don't at all like Bullock having no chance to compete for a roster spot, especially given starting SF being a hole all year. His large expiring contract might've been a decent asset in other deals later in the year. It's hard to really lock down hypothetical scenarios, but the Spurs would've been in better position to respond to Wemby's performance had they been more open to letting the best guys win

    Overall:

    It's hard to grade them, because we don't KNOW what their goals were. In terms of what I wanted, this is very different. But if their goal was to build slowly and evaluate, it's hard to say they didn't do that. A lot of the bad vibes seem to come from a general disbelief this was the team's plan and pessimism over team's future actions. Windhorst's rumor doesn't help that. But at this point, we don't know what they think they can do to build the team going forward. There are multiple possible futures in which this season plays an invaluable part in the next dynasty. Or this might be the preamble to a last failed attempt to run the organization the "Spurs Way" before it completely suc bs to the modern NBA under new management. Only time will tell.

  22. #22
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    I gave the team a c- for the moves they made. People are looking at the immediate outcome of the moves not the move itself.

    Houston made some big moves (because it could), but the outcome was still no playoffs. A for effort B for execution.

    Toronto made some big trades at the deadline (ending contracts), another A for execution but injuries derailed their season after that plus a good bit of tanking. The best laid plans don't always work out.

    Washington made some big moves, but they're worse off then we are and their future isn't too bright. A for effort, but not much worked in spite of the effort.

    Memphis with all their injuries made a lot of moves. No playoffs, but it shows what a good front office can do when it has to. A for effort, B+ for execution.

    The spurs with few valuable assets to trade (not including their own and the Atlanta and Chicago #1's) , chose not to make big moves probably knowing it still wouldn't get them in the playoffs or play in, but it did land them some slightly valuable future assets. It didn't help that Pop was experimenting for a third of the season. C- for some effort D- for execution. We all know that the spurs hardly ever make big moves, that's really not in their DNA, so they did what they usually do, make some rather low key moves and hope everything works out. Sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't. If the spurs want to improve their record they will definitely need to make some more impactful moves for next season.

  23. #23
    R.C. Deez Nuts. Mugen's Avatar
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    I don't think I've ever agreed with Chinook more tbh

    The only callout is there is absolutely no scenario where the Spurs were trading No. 1 overall, especially not for f'n Chet coming off a missed season

  24. #24
    Shaken, not stirred jjspur's Avatar
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    I don't think I've ever agreed with Chinook more tbh

    The only callout is there is absolutely no scenario where the Spurs were trading No. 1 overall, especially not for f'n Chet coming off a missed season
    Chet's good but he's not Wemby good. You're right, absolutely no way they ever trade Wemby willingly. Who knows, Lebron may step on him again in the playoffs and poof there goes another injury.

  25. #25
    Believe.
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    Wemby - no grade, it was the biggest no-brainer decision in the last 20 years of NBA drafts. Actually, Luka was as big of a no-brainer and three teams still ed up. I guess Wright gets an A+ for his amazing draft selection.
    Cissoko - B, actually a great second round pick, let's hope he can develop a jumpshot.

    Our two-ways and reclamation projects were always fine, good stuff there, tbh.
    Champagnie isn't anything special, but still has some valuable skills for today's league.
    Too bad Bassey's knees gave up.
    B+ for two-ways.

    Jones deal was decent, B.
    Mamu coming back was also decent, Pop not using him turned out to be really bad. Should've been B if he played more.
    Collins - F. Regardless of his decent season, giving him 32 million was idiotic, it's not like teams were lining up to offer him that kind of money and Spurs had to secure their guy.

    Getting a FRP swap for Bullock was good business. B.
    Others weren't that relevant to impact anything. I guess Osman served his purpose.


    The thing here is that at some point not making any bigger moves will stop being a neutral grade. Wright has been a decent salesman, he got some great assets for the players he traded away over the past few years, but soon enough he will have to become a buyer. And I'm not sure he's got what it takes. We can only hope for the best.
    And yeah, the biggest concern for me is PATFO's draft record as of late. I'll lose it if they pick another fundamentally flawed prospect just because they think they still have what it takes to mold him into the next big thing.

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