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  1. #126
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Houston (at least after the first game when Wemby delivered the W in the clutch) seemed to defend Wemby better than anyone... maybe we're overblowing the importance of a rim-protector, at least within the division.

    In 4 games versus the Rockets, Wemby averaged 31.4 min, 14.8 pts, 12.8 reb, 3.3 asst, 1.0 stl, 4.3 blks, 41.1% FG, 20.8% 3P.

    I don't have Statmuse premium or whatever the they call it, so it cuts off after 25 records, but Wemby definitely had one of the toughest times against Houston. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/vic...-vs-every-team

    Of course, the Rockets have to play more games than just the Spurs...

  2. #127
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    Houston (at least after the first game when Wemby delivered the W in the clutch) seemed to defend Wemby better than anyone... maybe we're overblowing the importance of a rim-protector, at least within the division.

    In 4 games versus the Rockets, Wemby averaged 31.4 min, 14.8 pts, 12.8 reb, 3.3 asst, 1.0 stl, 4.3 blks, 41.1% FG, 20.8% 3P.

    I don't have Statmuse premium or whatever the they call it, so it cuts off after 25 records, but Wemby definitely had one of the toughest times against Houston. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/vic...-vs-every-team

    Of course, the Rockets have to play more games than just the Spurs...
    Ime and Kidd with Dallas are the 2 coaches (as far as I recall) that really understood how to bother Wemby the most.

    I think a lot had to do with Victor's inexperience but it's also a blueprint on how to defend him. All the players have to be physical all the time, especially when he doesn't have the ball.

    Brooks really slowed/tired him down for ex

    I think Victor is more comfortable vs a big 1vs1, he almost relishes it

  3. #128
    Believe. MultiTroll's Avatar
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    Houston (at least after the first game when Wemby delivered the W in the clutch) seemed to defend Wemby better than anyone... maybe we're overblowing the importance of a rim-protector, at least within the division.

    In 4 games versus the Rockets, Wemby averaged 31.4 min, 14.8 pts, 12.8 reb, 3.3 asst, 1.0 stl, 4.3 blks, 41.1% FG, 20.8% 3P.

    I don't have Statmuse premium or whatever the they call it, so it cuts off after 25 records, but Wemby definitely had one of the toughest times against Houston. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/vic...-vs-every-team

    Of course, the Rockets have to play more games than just the Spurs...
    scott
    bringing the goods.

  4. #129
    Wolf Ruvinskis tonight...you's Avatar
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    Ime and Kidd with Dallas are the 2 coaches (as far as I recall) that really understood how to bother Wemby the most.

    I think a lot had to do with Victor's inexperience but it's also a blueprint on how to defend him. All the players have to be physical all the time, especially when he doesn't have the ball.

    Brooks really slowed/tired him down for ex

    I think Victor is more comfortable vs a big 1vs1, he almost relishes it
    Of all the teams this season, the Rockets brought the most trouble to Victor imo with their gameplan.

  5. #130
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    I'd guess they're very well aware of that.

    Look, all I'm saying is (imo) there isn't one road to success, it's actually interesting to watch both models. Okc is in advance but Houston started their proect last season really with Ime's arrival.

    I'm really high on Ime, a team always end up at the image of its coach and you could see after Sengun's injury how the team responded. I have no doubt the rockettes will become one the best defense in the league whoever play and they have the means to bring top players.

    I think there's something to take in both models. Patience is a great virtue but a bit of agressiveness or opportunism doesn't hurt.
    Ime is one of the best and he'd outcoach Pop everytime. It's just that the Rockets owner is rushing the process. They'll probably try to build through free agency/trades instead of drafting, I just don't see how they could become a real contender, but we'll see.

  6. #131
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Ime is one of the best and he'd outcoach Pop everytime. It's just that the Rockets owner is rushing the process. They'll probably try to build through free agency/trades instead of drafting, I just don't see how they could become a real contender, but we'll see.
    I'd say they've done a pretty good job of building through the draft and are now supplementing that with vet talent.

    Guys on their squad who they drafted:

    Amen
    Whitmore
    Jabari
    Eason
    Sengun
    Jalen Green

    It's odd to me that Houston gets flack on this board for "only" being a .500 team, who missed the play-in in a difficult West. If the Spurs went .500 this year, we'll have significantly overachieved.

    Rockets are going about this pretty smart. They have one drastically overpriced guy, on a short term deal while the rest of their core is on a rookie deal. Brooks contract is a little bit of an overpay, but is a declining deal.

  7. #132
    Veteran playbonner15's Avatar
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    I'd say they've done a pretty good job of building through the draft and are now supplementing that with vet talent.

    Guys on their squad who they drafted:

    Amen
    Whitmore
    Jabari
    Eason
    Sengun
    Jalen Green

    It's odd to me that Houston gets flack on this board for "only" being a .500 team, who missed the play-in in a difficult West. If the Spurs went .500 this year, we'll have significantly overachieved.

    Rockets are going about this pretty smart. They have one drastically overpriced guy, on a short term deal while the rest of their core is on a rookie deal. Brooks contract is a little bit of an overpay, but is a declining deal.
    Agree. Rockets are in a good position to compete next season. I think Rockets and OKC are the 2 upcoming young teams to watch

  8. #133
    Costly Mistakes JPB's Avatar
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    Agree. Rockets are in a good position to compete next season. I think Rockets and OKC are the 2 upcoming young teams to watch
    Imagine on top of doing a pretty good job buidling a young core and getting a good coach, they lucked into Wemby instead of Amen...

    (And imagine us).

  9. #134
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    They’re not pulling an All Star with even the first pick in this draft, let alone #3.
    No, but Green + 3 is compelling

  10. #135
    Veteran tbdog's Avatar
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    I'd say they've done a pretty good job of building through the draft and are now supplementing that with vet talent.

    Guys on their squad who they drafted:

    Amen
    Whitmore
    Jabari
    Eason
    Sengun
    Jalen Green

    It's odd to me that Houston gets flack on this board for "only" being a .500 team, who missed the play-in in a difficult West. If the Spurs went .500 this year, we'll have significantly overachieved.

    Rockets are going about this pretty smart. They have one drastically overpriced guy, on a short term deal while the rest of their core is on a rookie deal. Brooks contract is a little bit of an overpay, but is a declining deal.
    You could argue that they spent money to get to the playoffs and failed. They got 3rd pick because nets really stunk it up and their future looks weak.

  11. #136
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    No, but Green + 3 is compelling
    In his whole career, Green had like two months where he didn’t look like an idiot.

  12. #137
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Not buying Rockets till they got that go to guy x2.

  13. #138
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    You could argue that they spent money to get to the playoffs and failed. They got 3rd pick because nets really stunk it up and their future looks weak.
    FVV and Brooks gave them structure and competent veterans as support, but they also have a ton of high draft picks on their roster. I would say the year was a success generally as they established a defensive iden y and direction overall. They have a lot of pieces but I'm not entirely convinced. For example, I don't think they have replacements for those two vets when the time comes and every young player they have comes with significant question marks. Each seems to play a certain style best and those styles don't necessarily mesh. And then Amen, Jabari, Jalen, who are very high lotto picks, are probably not going to be stars.

  14. #139
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    Ime is one of the best and he'd outcoach Pop everytime. It's just that the Rockets owner is rushing the process. They'll probably try to build through free agency/trades instead of drafting, I just don't see how they could become a real contender, but we'll see.
    I think they've drafted enough no?^^ (they have almost too many promising younsgters and will have to sacrifice some) + Evey team/franchise does with the context/environment they have.

    Houston is a huge city and much more attractive for players (and they wives & kids, often key in a player's decision) than SA will ever be. They have more expectations and less time to build than OKC or SA who have more patient fans.

    I've read all season some of the oldest STers on them and trust me I wished I agreed, but AS OF NOW they're imo in a great position to be a contender in 1-2 seasons. Much more advanced than the Spurs for ex.

    But I insist on the importance of the coach, it all starts with him as long as the FO lets him work (which is the case).

    Those are not the same old rockettes

    I wish we/Wemby had Ime so much

  15. #140
    Since 1979 Das Texan's Avatar
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    Houston (at least after the first game when Wemby delivered the W in the clutch) seemed to defend Wemby better than anyone... maybe we're overblowing the importance of a rim-protector, at least within the division.

    In 4 games versus the Rockets, Wemby averaged 31.4 min, 14.8 pts, 12.8 reb, 3.3 asst, 1.0 stl, 4.3 blks, 41.1% FG, 20.8% 3P.

    I don't have Statmuse premium or whatever the they call it, so it cuts off after 25 records, but Wemby definitely had one of the toughest times against Houston. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/vic...-vs-every-team

    Of course, the Rockets have to play more games than just the Spurs...
    Spurs get better players around Wemby and this type of defense gets exposed drastically. That defense works because the supporting cast around Victor was well, not really good last year.

  16. #141
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    Spurs get better players around Wemby and this type of defense gets exposed drastically. That defense works because the supporting cast around Victor was well, not really good last year.
    in the December game, the Rockets just sent double and triple teams towards Wemby who found his open teammates; they just didn't knock them down. The Sengun 40 point game against Wemby was the game in which he reinjured his ankle right before halftime. He came back but only scored two points from then on and looked out of sorts.

  17. #142
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    Question for ST, I know we don’t want to blow our load… but are we being too greedy with our picks? The fact that we could trade our picks without trading ATLs pick for a star or vice versa trading ATLs picks without trading our own is pretty enticing.

  18. #143
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Question for ST, I know we don’t want to blow our load… but are we being too greedy with our picks? The fact that we could trade our picks without trading ATLs pick for a star or vice versa trading ATLs picks without trading our own is pretty enticing.
    The picks we have that aren’t ATL’s are the two this year, plus CHI, and the FRP ( likely two seconds) from CHA. All those COMBINED might get you a starter. You’re not pulling a star, though. No way,no day.

  19. #144
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    The picks we have that aren’t ATL’s are the two this year, plus CHI, and the FRP ( likely two seconds) from CHA. All those COMBINED might get you a starter. You’re not pulling a star, though. No way,no day.
    I think he's referring to the Spurs own picks 2025-2028..

  20. #145
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    Unless PATFO drafts two forwards and keeps Keldon, we're going to need a quality starter at forward position.
    What's everyone's take on the situation?

    Free agents:
    Achiuwa - can't shoot, but he's done great in NY and could be Wemby's backup at C.
    Crowder - I hope not.
    Okoro - I was high on him, but his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
    Toppin - would be a solid bench forward, not good enough to start.
    Harris - ugh, no.
    Oubre - I wouldn't mind him, he was great in the playoffs. But I don't think Pop would take a player who didn't get over himself.
    Batum - I guess he could be an option if we need two forwards and Wemby can convince him to play one more season.
    Highsmith - could be a solid bench option. Solid defender, but much like Okoro his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
    Patrick Williams - would be a solid choice if the price is right. Didn't develop as expected, but he still hasn't turned 23.
    Hayward - washed.
    SlowMo - can't afford any more non-shooters.
    Jones Jr - would be great if we could take him from Mavs, he's been amazing for them.
    O'Neale - looks somewhat washed.
    Prince - would be a solid bench option.

    I didn't include Demar, Siakam and OG that will most likely stay with their teams.

    As far as forwards that could be available for trade go, it's too early to tell.
    Obviously Bridges, Cam Johnson and DFS are available for the right price. But what's the right price according to the Nets?
    There's Markkanen and Ainge's ridiculous asking price that's not worth bothering with.
    I wouldn't mind MPJ if Denver decides they need more depth and he's too expensive.
    We'll see how NOLA situation plays out, Ingram is most likely the one that has to go. Never liked him as a player.
    Kings are looking to move from Barnes, he'd be a solid veteran for us. Idk about their asking price.
    Portland needs to move Grant, but his contract runs all the way up to 2028, not worth it.
    Some others will surely become available.

  21. #146
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    The picks we have that aren’t ATL’s are the two this year, plus CHI, and the FRP ( likely two seconds) from CHA. All those COMBINED might get you a starter. You’re not pulling a star, though. No way,no day.
    Ding ding we have a winner! The problem is the draft is a crap shoot. Thus, teams with a bird in hand (star player), want 3 or more FRPs, your first and second born, and two players averaging 15+ points a game in a trade. If they are even willing to trade, which usually only happens because said star throws a fit and demands it. From that view, the star may be a head case to begin, or in our case that PLUS a chronic injury. In other words, no star worth having is likely to agree to this. Only the Wemby factor may change that, we will see sooner or later about that.

    Ruling out that possibility, we are looking at packaging players we don't want (Collins/Keldon) and fewer picks for a high-priced player that may not be substantially better than Keldon actually. A grass is greener player, who looks better on the other team then they look on your own. Keldon is probably a grasses greener player, but at least he has a team friendly contract and 16-17 PPG off the bench is actually quite good. But if we end up with a player such as Knecht, it could make sense to deal Keldon and use Knecht as an even cheaper replacement.

    All that being said, having 1-2 FRPs each year is a good problem to have with regard to salary cap management. The Spurs can cultivate prospects, then look to trade them off before they command a $30-$40 million average salary extension or more, which is sadly what relatively average or slightly better NBA players get these days. For example, Sochan may not be going anywhere but many would say unload him rather than pay him. On the flip side, players such as Branham and Wesley are looking less and less likely to pan out, but the market for them may not move the needle any either.

    Long story short, it's complicated! Salaries are horrible, like how the housing market has gone bananas and other inflationary type challenges. Compounding that, the 2025 and 2026 drafts are great, so we really don't want to give up any picks from those drafts.

    Thus, we are left with minor strategies like overpaying for Garland, acquiring Monk, and/or just continuing to draft and bring in players and keep our fingers crossed and eyes open.

  22. #147
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    Unless PATFO drafts two forwards and keeps Keldon, we're going to need a quality starter at forward position.
    What's everyone's take on the situation?

    Free agents:
    Achiuwa - can't shoot, but he's done great in NY and could be Wemby's backup at C.
    Crowder - I hope not.
    Okoro - I was high on him, but his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
    Toppin - would be a solid bench forward, not good enough to start.
    Harris - ugh, no.
    Oubre - I wouldn't mind him, he was great in the playoffs. But I don't think Pop would take a player who didn't get over himself.
    Batum - I guess he could be an option if we need two forwards and Wemby can convince him to play one more season.
    Highsmith - could be a solid bench option. Solid defender, but much like Okoro his shot disappeared in the playoffs.
    Patrick Williams - would be a solid choice if the price is right. Didn't develop as expected, but he still hasn't turned 23.
    Hayward - washed.
    SlowMo - can't afford any more non-shooters.
    Jones Jr - would be great if we could take him from Mavs, he's been amazing for them.
    O'Neale - looks somewhat washed.
    Prince - would be a solid bench option.

    I didn't include Demar, Siakam and OG that will most likely stay with their teams.

    As far as forwards that could be available for trade go, it's too early to tell.
    Obviously Bridges, Cam Johnson and DFS are available for the right price. But what's the right price according to the Nets?
    There's Markkanen and Ainge's ridiculous asking price that's not worth bothering with.
    I wouldn't mind MPJ if Denver decides they need more depth and he's too expensive.
    We'll see how NOLA situation plays out, Ingram is most likely the one that has to go. Never liked him as a player.
    Kings are looking to move from Barnes, he'd be a solid veteran for us. Idk about their asking price.
    Portland needs to move Grant, but his contract runs all the way up to 2028, not worth it.
    Some others will surely become available.
    That was a lot to read through, only to learn that there are 2-3 FA forwards at best that are maybe worth looking into.

    I'd rather take a Willaims or Buzelis in this draft. If needed, more of a true PF next draft. Also I think we should mention Barlow in this discussion, since he is only 20 and has pretty strong SF/PF potential, similar to Buzelis.

    Based off your list, I think you are mainly just looking at SFs, while we need to be looking at PFs also at some point.

  23. #148
    Veteran Degoat's Avatar
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    Yeah to the above responses I’m referring to our own picks and ATLs pick (not including those protected picks or even the swaps)

    We can absolutely trade ATLs picks for a star player without trading our own or vice versa. The problem being is the correct Star player being traded for I guess.

  24. #149
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    Yeah to the above responses I’m referring to our own picks and ATLs pick (not including those protected picks or even the swaps)

    We can absolutely trade ATLs picks for a star player without trading our own or vice versa. The problem being is the correct Star player being traded for I guess.
    The issue here is we or ATL could still be quite bad for the next 1-3 years. It is hard to justify trading our own or ATL picks prior to at least 2027, if i had to guess what the authorities on this board may say in that regard.

    Edit: but because other teams don't know how bad ATL or SAS will be ahead of time, that introduces uncertainty to where they want to discount the value of those picks.

  25. #150
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Question for ST, I know we don’t want to blow our load… but are we being too greedy with our picks? The fact that we could trade our picks without trading ATLs pick for a star or vice versa trading ATLs picks without trading our own is pretty enticing.
    Um…

    Edit: that was a quick delete, Degoat.

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