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  1. #151
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I'd urge you to reconsider that assessment. Compare their seasons in CBB.

    https://www.tankathon.com/players/co...paolo-banchero

    Let see. Cooper is a year younger. Had a slower start (on offense) to the season and has been improving ever since. Cooper plays both ends (Banchero isn't much defensively), and is GOOD at both ends of the floor. Either being younger or defending would bump him up a tier; with both?!?

    I'll give you that I don't think Flagg is in the Wemby/Lebron/Doncic tier as a prospect (although he's working on it). But he's in the Zion/AD tier:

    https://x.com/freewave3/status/1878193949837271203
    Certainly my opinion could change as the season progresses, but I am just not seeing it. The defending is definitely a huge plus but the lack of shooting is a major minus for me, though I do see that Flagg has picked it up in that area as of late. I'll do another evaluation after the season and I wouldn't be surprised if I bump him up. On paper, you're right though - he probably deserves to be ahead of Paolo (though I'd still have him behind the Zion/AD tier... though again... all subject to change)

  2. #152
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    Paulo had better size and all around offense. When determining a players value offense is usually before defense and even without the benefit of hindsight Paulo is/was the safer bet. Paulo had a slightly higher all around floor as a 15/8 big man with average defense and good shooting efficiency. Flagg's floor is a 15/8 SF with shooting issues and very good defense. You take your chances on the 6'10 PF who can hit the three instead of the 6'9 SF with a questionable three ball. Easy call.

  3. #153
    IWasNotFamiliarWithUrGame CorrectCrusader's Avatar
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  4. #154
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I have a weird feeling about Flagg. He's really good, obviously, but I keep getting Zion or RJ Barrett vibes, other freshmen who were dominant against bad ACC opponents. I watch him play really well and wonder if it will translate fully. Is he actually a franchise player? I hope so. The last white American All-Star in the NBA was like Brad Miller, lol.
    you had the contrarian take on him a while ago, so i get it, but i think basically off those notions should have been dispelled by now given how good he's been at duke

  5. #155
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    Paulo had better size and all around offense. When determining a players value offense is usually before defense and even without the benefit of hindsight Paulo is/was the safer bet. Paulo had a slightly higher all around floor as a 15/8 big man with average defense and good shooting efficiency. Flagg's floor is a 15/8 SF with shooting issues and very good defense. You take your chances on the 6'10 PF who can hit the three instead of the 6'9 SF with a questionable three ball. Easy call.
    I'll reserve full judgement on Flagg until closer to end of season, but just wondering why Paolo's floor was having "good shooting efficiency" while Flagg's is one having "shooting issues" when Flagg has the same 3 point percentage, higher 3 point volume, and a higher free throw percentage while being one year younger with no glaring mechanical issues in his shot?

    And I would argue that a 15/8 elite defender with a decent shot is easier to fit into a team concept compared to a 15/8 ok defender who is best used as a high-usage creator, so for me it's not quite as easy a call.

  6. #156
    Veteran mo7888's Avatar
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    I get your point, but I think this is overrating Flagg quite a bit IMO. I think there is the LeBron/Wemby tier of #1 picks, then you get to the Zion/AD tier, then the Paolo tier... and I think I'd put Flagg probably in that tier (with Paolo probably slightly ahead). Obviously, still a lot of All NBA (and future HOF) caliber players out of those tiers... but I don't rate Flagg as some kind of generational can't-miss prospect. Higher floor than some others, but a much lower ceiling, IMO as well. His median outcome is probably something like an 18/8 guy who plays solid defense.
    I think Flagg is somewhere between AD and Wemby myself.

  7. #157
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    I have a weird feeling about Flagg. He's really good, obviously, but I keep getting Zion or RJ Barrett vibes, other freshmen who were dominant against bad ACC opponents. I watch him play really well and wonder if it will translate fully. Is he actually a franchise player? I hope so. The last white American All-Star in the NBA was like Brad Miller, lol.
    Kevin Love….but yeah, not exactly last season either.

  8. #158
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    I'll reserve full judgement on Flagg until closer to end of season, but just wondering why Paolo's floor was having "good shooting efficiency" while Flagg's is one having "shooting issues" when Flagg has the same 3 point percentage, higher 3 point volume, and a higher free throw percentage while being one year younger with no glaring mechanical issues in his shot?

    And I would argue that a 15/8 elite defender with a decent shot is easier to fit into a team concept compared to a 15/8 ok defender who is best used as a high-usage creator, so for me it's not quite as easy a call.
    Paulo is the better shooter relative to his position and had the size to move to C which would make his shooting more deadly. If Flagg’s jumper doesn’t improve he becomes a rich man’s Sochan.

  9. #159
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    Paulo is the better shooter relative to his position and had the size to move to C which would make his shooting more deadly. If Flagg’s jumper doesn’t improve he becomes a rich man’s Sochan.
    I guess we are going to have to disagree here when it comes to team building philosophy. If we're going to be that pessimistic with Flagg's projected shooting, we have to apply a similar condition to Banchero's worst case. What does an average-defending non-shooting scoring power forward get you? Rich man's Derrick Williams? Poor man's Julius Randle? I might honestly take the rich man's Sochan if I had to choose I think.

  10. #160
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    I guess we are going to have to disagree here when it comes to team building philosophy. If we're going to be that pessimistic with Flagg's projected shooting, we have to apply a similar condition to Banchero's worst case. What does an average-defending non-shooting scoring power forward get you? Rich man's Derrick Williams? Poor man's Julius Randle? I might honestly take the rich man's Sochan if I had to choose I think.

    Paulo’s shooting wasn’t that bad for a PF. Solid rebounder and a decent defender. Better two way bet. Wings rely more on their jumpers than bigs.

  11. #161
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    Paulo’s shooting wasn’t that bad for a PF. Solid rebounder and a decent defender. Better two way bet. Wings rely more on their jumpers than bigs.
    I would argue that your position is determined based on who you can defend. With that in mind, I have much more faith in Flagg playing the PF position at the next level and functioning as a secondary rim protector (4.5 BLK%/3 STL%, 6'9" with a 7 foot wing span) vs Banchero's ability to play center and primary rim deterrent (2.7 BLK%/1.9 STL%, 6'10" with a 7' 0.5" wingspan)

    Ultimately, I view them both as big wings - Flagg's is of the Grant Hill/Tatum flavor while Banchero's is of the Carmelo flavor. I'm not sure the gap between them is that wide, but I don't think it's as easy a call as you seem to make it appear, and certainly not in Banchero's favor when all the numbers seem to suggest otherwise.

  12. #162
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    I would argue that your position is determined based on who you can defend. With that in mind, I have much more faith in Flagg playing the PF position at the next level and functioning as a secondary rim protector (4.5 BLK%/3 STL%, 6'9" with a 7 foot wing span) vs Banchero's ability to play center and primary rim deterrent (2.7 BLK%/1.9 STL%, 6'10" with a 7' 0.5" wingspan)

    Ultimately, I view them both as big wings - Flagg's is of the Grant Hill/Tatum flavor while Banchero's is of the Carmelo flavor. I'm not sure the gap between them is that wide, but I don't think it's as easy a call as you seem to make it appear, and certainly not in Banchero's favor when all the numbers seem to suggest otherwise.
    Their shooting numbers are nearly identical but Paulo has better size. I see Paulo as a PF/C and Flagg as a SF/PF. There's more pressure on Flagg's jumper. Flagg has better defense which gives him a higher role player floor but his jumper relative to his position also makes it less likely he'll reach his full potential.

  13. #163
    Starter off the bench Uriel's Avatar
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    I don't get why people are so hung up on Flagg's race. White, black, doesn't matter, the dude is a straight up baller.

  14. #164
    Veteran mo7888's Avatar
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    I don't get why people are so hung up on Flagg's race. White, black, doesn't matter, the dude is a straight up baller.
    Yup...and he's elite on D. He'll be the 2nd best player drafted 1st in the last 10 years at least.

  15. #165
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    Who's hung up on his race?

  16. #166
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Yup...and he's elite on D. He'll be the 2nd best player drafted 1st in the last 10 years at least.
    Damn Simmons - Fultz - Ayton - Zion has to be the longest streak of busts at #1 we have ever seen.

  17. #167
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    Damn Simmons - Fultz - Ayton - Zion has to be the longest streak of busts at #1 we have ever seen.
    Meanwhile, Brown-Tatum-Luka-Ja would have been a pretty elite run of #1 picks had the teams with the #1 pick just been better at their jobs (though I don't think anyone would have passed on Zion). LOL @ the Sixers passing on Brown and Tatum to take Simmons and Fultz

  18. #168
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    Meanwhile, Brown-Tatum-Luka-Ja would have been a pretty elite run of #1 picks had the teams with the #1 pick just been better at their jobs (though I don't think anyone would have passed on Zion). LOL @ the Sixers passing on Brown and Tatum to take Simmons and Fultz
    Turns out that red flag about Simmons not even being able to get LSU to the NCAA tournament was 100% on point. But damn did he look amazing to the eye test.

  19. #169
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    LOL @ the Sixers passing on Brown and Tatum to take Simmons and Fultz
    I still think Phoenix, Sacramento, and Atlanta are the teams who deserve the harshest scoffs though. Luka should have been an obvious #1 pick being MVP in a league that hates playing 18 year olds and leading his team to the second most prestigious championship in the world and Bill Simmons was the only one calling it. I think that was more impressive than even Anthony Davis' resume entering the draft.

  20. #170
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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  21. #171
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Zion, Chet,and Evan have Zero All NBA selections.

  22. #172
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Zion, Chet,and Evan have Zero All NBA selections.
    this response is giving me an aneurysm

  23. #173
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    this response is giving me an aneurysm
    If Cooper Flagg maintains his current production for the rest of the season, he'll enter a historic intersection of youth, offensive and defensive production that has produced nothing but All-NBA players.
    It’s a direct response to the text within the tweet. There were 5 players highlighted, plus Flagg. Of those 5, only 2 had been selected as All NBA. That’s hardly “nothing but All NBA players”. Of the other 3, only Zion had been selected as an All Star, twice, but one of those couldn’t happen now, due to insufficient games played. Chet and Evan have never even been All Star selections.

  24. #174
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    It’s a direct response to the text within the tweet. There were 5 players highlighted, plus Flagg. Of those 5, only 2 had been selected as All NBA. That’s hardly “nothing but All NBA players”. Of the other 3, only Zion had been selected as an All Star, twice, but one of those couldn’t happen now, due to insufficient games played. Chet and Evan have never even been All Star selections.
    I think you reasonably would take the tweet at describing the caliber of player/prospect. Chet has only been eligible for all nba during his rookie* year. His inclusion in the list should have keyed the reader to that

  25. #175
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I think you reasonably would take the tweet at describing the caliber of player/prospect. Chet has only been eligible for all nba during his rookie* year. His inclusion in the list should have keyed the reader to that
    That’s not even close to what it said. Didn’t mention ‘prospects’. Did say ‘produces nothing but All NBA players’. Pure hyperbole and easily debunked with about 5 minutes research. Sorry about your aneurysm. You should get that looked at.

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