Detroit Pistons

[jochhejaam]

Most of the Detroit posters on this board gush about the Spurs,

Let's not get carried with the gushing thing.
Most true fans respected the Spurs even before we met in the Finals.
Great series and it was determined by the players not the refs.

[Pistons < Spurs]

No you didn't....

You didn't just say that the reason the Spurs won game 7 was because the refs handed them the game.

Are you serious?

Do a lot of Pistons fans actually believe that? Most of the Detroit posters on this board gush about the Spurs, but do they deep-down-inside feel like the Pistons would have won if it weren't for the refs?

I can't even fathom how someone could think that.

Wake-up call: The refs weren't the reason the Pistons lost game 7. The reason the Pistons lost game 7 was simply because they couldn't stop Manu Ginobili and couldn't hit shots in the clutch. At the time when their lauded defense was needed the most, it failed (although, that might not be fair, because the things that Manu Ginobili was doing in the fourth quarter were surreal...I don't know if even the best defender in the world could have stopped him). That wasn't the ref who was dunking all over the Pistons in the 4th...that was Manu.

I think you might have some inner resentment issues that you need to sort out...maybe they stem from that unfortunate lice situation involving your child, I don't know. Regardless, you need to grow up and quit blaming the refs for what might have been a valiant effort, but what was still a failure.

I don't blame or credit the refs for the outcome of game 7.

If I had to answer as to why we lost that game, I would say it was due to largely impart to Home Court Adv. The way the series went, and as evenly as the teams were matched up, whoever had HCA in game 7 was going to be in the drivers seat. Yes, if roles were reversed, and the game took place in Detroit, I have no doubt that Sheed would still be lofting his Belt in Victory.

The second factor IMO is one that is not often discussed or mentioned. I would have to blame LB for his personel decisions. Things were going our way until LB decided to rest Dice and Sheed, each w/ 4 fouls w/ 7 minutes to go in the game. Tayshaun ended up 'trying' to guard Duncan, and everything went to . Duncan re-asserted himself and took advantage of the mismatch. In a game 7, there is no way he should have kept my boys down. You have to lay it all on the line. Instead we saw our lead dissapear, and our chances evaporate. IMO LB completely ed up.

[GO SPurs Go]

gre

[MosesGuthrie]

Yes, if roles were reversed, and the game took place in Detroit, I have no doubt that Sheed would still be lofting his Belt in Victory.

I do...both teams proved they could win on the others court.

To be fair though, I do have the same doubt that if they played that game again the next day, the Spurs still win. It was that close and Detroit was (and still is) that good.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

No you didn't....

You didn't just say that the reason the Spurs won game 7 was because the refs handed them the game.

Are you serious?

Do a lot of Pistons fans actually believe that? Most of the Detroit posters on this board gush about the Spurs, but do they deep-down-inside feel like the Pistons would have won if it weren't for the refs?

I can't even fathom how someone could think that.

Wake-up call: The refs weren't the reason the Pistons lost game 7. The reason the Pistons lost game 7 was simply because they couldn't stop Manu Ginobili and couldn't hit shots in the clutch. At the time when their lauded defense was needed the most, it failed (although, that might not be fair, because the things that Manu Ginobili was doing in the fourth quarter were surreal...I don't know if even the best defender in the world could have stopped him). That wasn't the ref who was dunking all over the Pistons in the 4th...that was Manu.

I think you might have some inner resentment issues that you need to sort out...maybe they stem from that unfortunate lice situation involving your child, I don't know. Regardless, you need to grow up and quit blaming the refs for what might have been a valiant effort, but what was still a failure.

Uh, I believe there are some fans in here that think the Spurs would have swept if not for the refs.

Who cares?

[JamStone]

The Spurs deserved the le last year. And, I don't think the referees handed game 7 to the Spurs.

HOWEVER ... do I feel that had the officiating been called a little bit differently, there would have been a different outcome? Absolutely. Just because I think there were a few touch-foul calls by the refs doesn't mean I think they handed the game to the Spurs. It just means that the Pistons were a little unfortunate with the calls, but that's the way the game goes, and we deal with it. It's part of the game. Doesn't mean we can't feel that our team would have won had we not gotten a couple of those cheap fouls.

Review the game and you'll see the Pistons had control of game 7 in the third quarter (may have even been a double digit lead, I can't recall), until Rasheed and Chauncey each collected their fourth foul. In all honesty, Rasheed had two fouls that were very questionable. Had Chauncey and Rasheed not have to go to the bench during the stretch in which Timmy took over, we very well may be talking a different story.

AGAIN ... it takes nothing away from how good the Spurs were, how great Timmy was in the fourth quarter, how great Manu played down the stretch, and the defense Bruce played on Chauncey at the end of the game. I don't blame the refs for the loss. But, YES, I believe had the calls gone the Pistons way a little more, they would have beaten the Spurs. I don't think that's disrespect to the Spurs, using conspiracy theory on officiating, or being a sore loser. It's just how some of us Pistons fans feel.

Spurs won fair and square, and part of winning sometimes deals with getting the lucky breaks or the benefit of the calls. Officiating is a subjective thing, so while calls can be questioned, it doesn't mean we don't understand and accept that that subjectivity is part of the game.

[MosesGuthrie]

so then, without the refs, the Spurs have absolutely no shot of winning?

[JamStone]

Not what I said, and you know that.

And, it doesn't matter, because there are NO GAMES PLAYED WITHOUT REFS. It's a moot argument.

I'm speaking SPECIFICALLY game 7, how the game was going, when the Pistons had control of the game in the third quarter, had Chauncey and Rasheed not have to be benched because of foul trouble, then I believe the Pistons would have won the game. That doesn't mean the Spurs had no chance without the calls. It means, based on how the game was going, the Pistons were in position to win. And, since some of us Pistons fans believe some of the fouls called on Rasheed and Chauncey were questionable, then we feel it was an unfortunate break of the game, based on the subjectivity of officiating. NOT BLAMING. NOT MAKING A CONSPIRACY THEORY. NOT SAYING THE SPURS DIDN'T DESERVE TO WIN. None of that. I just believe that things would have turned out differently had some of the cheap fouls not been called.

[MosesGuthrie]

I don't know that because I don't know you so how could I?

Let me rephrase...

If those calls that you deem questionable were not called....do you feel the Spurs have absolutely no shot of winning the game?

[JamStone]

No, I don't think the Spurs would have had absolutely no chance of winning the game.

I do believe that the Pistons would have won had Chauncey and Rasheed were not on the bench when the Spurs built their second half lead.

Sure, the Spurs still could have won even had Chauncey and Rasheed been in more in the second half. It's just a "fan's" opinion that Detroit would have maintained their control of the game had they not had to sit as long as they did.

[Phenomanul]

This is something that I think eludes most Piston fans, if Manu doesn't get hurt in Game 3.... The series would not have gone to 7 games...

As for the fouls, I can't think of how many times Wallace got away with hacking at Duncan's forearms to cause him to loose the ball.... that was pretty irritating...

And with that I mean that the officiating went both ways...

[MosesGuthrie]

Fair enough Jamstone.

My point wasn't to aggrevate. I just have a problem with people making excuses about the Finals. (not that I am saying you personally were) The fact of the matter is that the NBA determines the winner of a game one way. Who scores the most points. For 4 of the 7 games, the Spurs did that. In that series, the Spurs were the better team. You take two weeks off and play it again? The same result is in no way guaranteed. Was Detroit not a good team? no, they were a great team and a worthy opponent. They play the game, IMO, the way it should be played and it was a great finals despite all ing about ratings. (if you noticed the people doing the ing were those who didn't have a team involved ) Some Piston fans (not all...at least not the smart ones) are blaming the refs and that pisses me off. Its as if for some reason, the championship is tainted. As you said and as I agree...its not about the refs its about the players. I also know that if the situation was reversed...there would be some Spurs fans(again...not the smart ones) who would be doing the same.

[JamStone]

This is something that I think eludes most Piston fans, if Manu doesn't get hurt in Game 3.... The series would not have gone to 7 games...

As for the fouls, I can't think of how many times Wallace got away with hacking at Duncan's forearms to cause him to loose the ball.... that was pretty irritating...

And with that I mean that the officiating went both ways...

I can accept that their were missed call or bad calls both ways the whole series. That's why I can accept the Spurs winning and say they were the best team.

Being tied after 3 quarters of game 7 of the NBA finals should tell you that both teams were pretty good and comparable, despite what you think about the effects of Manu Ginobili's injury (by the way, just like officiating, injuries is part of the game).

My point is only that had the Pistons got the benefit of some calls in GAME 7, then I think things would have turned out differently. That's all. I'm not trying to say anything controversial, and I'm not taking anything away from the Spurs. I think the teams were evenly matched up enough so that either team could have won game 7. And, I thought the Pistons had control of the game in the 3rd quarter before fouls turned the game around. Part of the game. And, great win for the Spurs.

[Stacis_pistons_rock]

The Spurs should wear bullet proof jerseys in that building.

odd i was watching the news and someone found a gun in one of your elementary schools by a student.lol you seem to talk as if detroit is a horrible city when you have ya own problems with kids bring guns to school, i'm in texas on a job and this place is more worse then the bad side of detroit my daughter was in your schools for a week and got lice. so stfu with your bashing jokes their gettin old and everyone whos been to michigan knows how off you are texas is worse in crime them michigan look it up!

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

This is something that I think eludes most Piston fans, if Manu doesn't get hurt in Game 3.... The series would not have gone to 7 games...

Can you tell me what the lotto numbers are too?

[MosesGuthrie]

odd i was watching the news and someone found a gun in one of your elementary schools by a student.lol you seem to talk as if detroit is a horrible city when you have ya own problems with kids bring guns to school, i'm in texas on a job and this place is more worse then the bad side of detroit my daughter was in your schools for a week and got lice. so stfu with your bashing jokes their gettin old and everyone whos been to michigan knows how off you are texas is worse in crime them michigan look it up

yeah and you are constantly talking about SA and purposely ignoring the good things we have here.

The city bashing is for dumbasses...everyone should stick to hoops.

[JamStone]

Fair enough Jamstone.

My point wasn't to aggrevate. I just have a problem with people making excuses about the Finals. (not that I am saying you personally were) The fact of the matter is that the NBA determines the winner of a game one way. Who scores the most points. For 4 of the 7 games, the Spurs did that. In that series, the Spurs were the better team. You take two weeks off and play it again? The same result is in no way guaranteed. Was Detroit not a good team? no, they were a great team and a worthy opponent. They play the game, IMO, the way it should be played and it was a great finals despite all ing about ratings. (if you noticed the people doing the ing were those who didn't have a team involved ) Some Piston fans (not all...at least not the smart ones) are blaming the refs and that pisses me off. Its as if for some reason, the championship is tainted. As you said and as I agree...its not about the refs its about the players. I also know that if the situation was reversed...there would be some Spurs fans(again...not the smart ones) who would be doing the same.

MosesGuthrie,

Yeah, I wasn't trying to be controversial. And, I in no way was blaming the refs for the loss. To belabor what I've been saying, I KNOW that foul calls are part of the game, and players just have to play through it. AGAIN, I'm not complaining about the fouls. I'm just trying to say that had a couple calls gone the Pistons' way, I believe there would have been a different result. I think YOU know what I'm trying to say. I hope other Spurs fans can realize what I'm trying to say ...

The Spurs ABSOLUTELY deserved to win last year. Could the Pistons have won game 7 if they caught a couple more breaks from the referees (which could have gone either way)? I believe so. That's all I'm saying.

[MosesGuthrie]

I get it bro. Its all good.

Sadly, both sides have dumbasses.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Could the Pistons have won game 7 if they caught a couple more breaks from the referees (which could have gone either way)? I believe so. That's all I'm saying.

Yeah, but you could say that about any team that lost any game in the playoffs...

[MosesGuthrie]

I think that was his point...and he might be right. The series was so tight...anything could have happened.

[JamStone]

Yeah, but you could say that about any team that lost any game in the playoffs...

You could say that about a lot of "CLOSE" games in any game of the playoffs.

Point about getting the benefit of "certain calls" I'm referring to is that THOSE FOULS could have easily NOT BEEN CALLED. So, if the call could have gone the other way, then that changes the course of the game, seeing how foul trouble ended up being an issue in the second half. That being said, poor or missed calls are part of the game, so the Pistons lost fair and square.

I can still believe things would have turned out differently, based on a couple of calls.


If a team in the playoffs gets blown out by 30 points, and were never closer than 20 points in the final three quarters, hard to say that that losing team could say what I'm trying to say. But, you catch my drift ...

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

You could say that about a lot of "CLOSE" games in any game of the playoffs.

Point about getting the benefit of "certain calls" I'm referring to is that THOSE FOULS could have easily NOT BEEN CALLED. So, if the call could have gone the other way, then that changes the course of the game, seeing how foul trouble ended up being an issue in the second half. That being said, poor or missed calls are part of the game, so the Pistons lost fair and square.

I can still believe things would have turned out differently, based on a couple of calls.


If a team in the playoffs gets blown out by 30 points, and were never closer than 20 points in the final three quarters, hard to say that that losing team could say what I'm trying to say. But, you catch my drift ...

I do, but you must forget Laker Fan ing about the calls in Gs 4 and 5 in 2004...

[Phenomanul]

Can you tell me what the lotto numbers are too?

I admit it was a speculative comment; but consider this:

Manu was playing out of this world before that injury... As Spurs fans who watch every game... we know that his "thigh - knee contusions" have affected his explosiveness and thus his ability to be effective (he has had those type of injuries at least 4 or 5 different times during his tenure with the Spurs)... Manu's 'jerky' movements are predicated on such explosiveness and when he's down the whole team feels it... particularly because they had grown accustomed to his growing role on the team...

Game 3 slipped out of reach as soon as Manu was hurt.

By Game 7, Ginobili looked like his former self...

Also consider this... Detroit's defensive schemes did not stop Ginobili... Injury stopped Ginobili... while hurt Manu was commiting rare turnovers bouncing balls off of his feet etc...

[JamStone]

I do, but you must forget Laker Fan ing about the calls in Gs 4 and 5 in 2004...

You don't understand.

I'm not ing about the calls. I accept them. They are part of the game.

ALL I AM SAYING is that had they gone the other way, not been called, the game would have turned out differently. THAT IS ALL. I'm not complaining about the calls. I'm not saying the NBA fixed the game. I'm not saying the refs handed the game to the Spurs. I'm just saying I believe the Pistons would have won if Rasheed, Chauncey (and even McDyess) did not get into foul trouble.

Spurs deserved to win. How does what I'm saying compared to Laker fans ing about officiating in 2004? It doesn't. Lakers were completely overmatched and BLOWN OUT in games 5. Their assertions carry very little weight.

[SA Gunslinger]

I think the series was won and lost in game five. Horry's shot was the back breaker, even though the Pistons did win game six.