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The subject line of this thread is misleading...the Senate only failed to garner enough votes to force cloture and overcome a threatened filibuster by the stupid Democrats.
It ain't over yet.
Like I always say, if you can manufacture a war, you should pretty much be able to ignore the Cons ution.
The Patroit Act's infringement on Cons utional rights is frightening. I'm glad that the Senate can see that. I'm not sold on the idea that the Patriot Act has deterred any planned terrorist attacks and I'm not convinced that the unending application of that Act would forever deter any attacks.
Frankly, I'd rather live under fear of terrorist attack but have my civil liberties reasonably protected than live in a country where the government disregards civil liberties in the guise of protecting me from attacks. That's a price of freedom, after all -- a willingness to forego freedom for the sake of security is still a deprivation of freedom. Forsaking liberties in the guise of protecting against attack is decidedly un-American in my estimation; supporting legislation that infringes on important liberties in the guise of protectionism strikes me as inherently unpatriotic.
The subject line of this thread is misleading...the Senate only failed to garner enough votes to force cloture and overcome a threatened filibuster by the stupid Democrats.
It ain't over yet.
^^ for the three last post. Yep, you do support the enemy more than you
support the country in which you live. Civil liberties my foot. Who in the world
gave you those liberties? It wasn't the dimm-o-craps. It was the GI's. It is
also the GI's that wished you would support our government. Make fun, but don't
ignore the fact that the blow job king of the USA did nothing, absolutely nothing,
except smile, let his chin quiver, and call Jesse for counseling. Oh, he did get a
three hundred dollar haircut and tie up an airport for three hours. He also let the
GI's down in Somalia and elsewhere. There has been no infringement on the
cons ution in any way, shape or fashion. Live in your little world. I just hope
you have no children to follow. I do feel for you, as Clinton said: I feel your pain.
Most on this board are younger than me. You are going to have to reap what
you sow. Poke your fun, but you have no idea of what you speak, I do. I lived
thru the second world war, Korean War and Viet Nam. Served thru two of those.
Wars and still am proud of my country, refuse to let those of you who put us down
on dumb issues to prevail. I know we will win what we started, because we are
something you wouldn't know about, a people who will not let those who want to
destroy us because of our beliefs.we will and have stopped those who have tried in
the past. Why you have let some political party influence you is beyond me. But you
have. I will not let you trash our Government or a President who is trying his best to
save you and your families.
The thing about the Patriot act is...we didn't need it. We NEVER needed it. All we needed was for the intel agencies to
a) stop their ing turf wars.
b) pull their heads out of their asses.
That gal from the FBI was just IGNORED when she tried to tell her bosses about the Middle Easterners flocking to flight schools, and only wanting to learn to fly planes, not take off or land them.
^speaking FOR the Patriot Act
...Israel saved it's own bacon in the six-days war.
You're welcome.
Which is why is was rejected.
premptive strike .. what was the bay of pigs...
an attempt to overthrow a up and coming dictator... by you guessed it.... JFK...
fracking democraps need to learn history....
Would a U.S. unilateral invasion of Iraq to topple Saddam Hussein mark a radical break in US foreign policy? In a recent Reuters article led "Iraq Invasion Would Reshape US Foreign Policy," reporter Alan Elsner argues that launching aggressive first strikes against potential future threats marks a stark change from the U.S. Cold War doctrine of deterrence and containment
In a speech made at West Point in June this year, President Bush outlined his plans for a pre-emptive strike doctrine. He said: "Our security will require all Americans to be forward-looking and resolute, to be ready for preemptive action when necessary to defend our liberty and to defend our lives."
What impact will Bush's preemptive strike doctrine have on foreign policy and US relations with the UN, and other nations? How does it compare to Washington's plans against Cuba a generation ago?
In October 1962, Washington pushed the world to the brink of nuclear war, in what is known as the Cuban Missile Crisis. The events brought to a head the ongoing attempts by the US to overthrow the Cuban government.
At a White House meeting on November 3, 1961, Kennedy authorized the development of a new program designed to destroy the Cuban Revolution. The project was code-named Operation Mongoose.
The Bay of Pigs was CIA/Bush41. Unlike W, JFK recognized he was being mislead and failed to provide air-support for the 'discedent' led invasion. How many naturalized Iraqis participated in the US led invasion of Baghdad again?
..and it was President Eisenhower, not Kennedy who FIRST approved a CIA plan to overthrow Castro...
Operation Mongoosen March I960, President Dwight Eisenhower of the United States approved a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) plan to overthrow Fidel Castro. The plan involved a budget of $13 million to train "a paramilitary force outside Cuba for guerrilla action." The strategy was organised by Richard Bissell and Richard Helms.
The SGA, or Special Group Augmented, didn't mislead the nation to war, nor propose a U.S. led pre-emptive strike against Castro, in fact, among some of the committee's more brilliant ideas was to spray a television studio in which Castro was about to appear with an hallucinogenic drug and contaminating his shoes with thallium which they believed would cause the hair in his beard to fall out.At a meeting of this committee at the White House on 4th November, 1961, it was decided to call this covert action program for sabotage and subversion against Cuba, Operation Mongoose.
The Six Day war is the model case for a justified pre-emptive attack. Coincidentally, it is also the ONLY widely accepted justified pre-emptive attack.
this is too easy...
Operation Mongoose
The policy assessment initiated in May 1961 led in November of that year to a decision to implement a new covert program to undermine and overthrow the Castro government in Cuba. This program was codenamed Operation Mongoose and much of the remainder of the volume after November 1961 is devoted to do enting Operation Mongoose. Oversight for Operation Mongoose was provided by the 5412/Special Group expanded to include General Taylor and Attorney General Kennedy. Planning for Operation Mongoose was given additional impetus in the spring of 1962 by reports of expanded arms shipments from the Soviet Union to Cuba.
In November 1961 Kennedy approved Operation Mongoose, a secret plan aimed at stimulating a rebellion in Cuba that the United States could support. From November 1961 to October 1962 a Special Group (Augmented), whose membership was the same as the Special Group plus Attorney General Robert Kennedy and General Taylor (as Chairman), exercised responsibility for Operation Mongoose, a major covert action program aimed at overthrowing the Castro regime in Cuba. When President Kennedy authorized the program in November, he designated Brigadier General Edward G. Lansdale, Assistant for Special Operations to the Secretary of Defense, to act as chief of operations, and Lansdale coordinated the Mongoose activities among the CIA and the Departments of State and Defense. CIA units in Washington and Miami had primary responsibility for implementing Mongoose operations, which included military, sabotage, and political propaganda programs.
Bill Harvey was a legend in the Clandestine Service by this time. He had been in Berlin when the Berlin Tunnel was built to tap into Soviet communication lines in East Berlin, and he was picked to head Operation Mongoose, the attempt to undermine Fidel Castro's regime.
Funny how the U.N. had a "solidarity with Palestine" celebration the other day and allowed a map to be displayed that omitted a U.N. member country -- Israel. Widely accepted? It appears that not even the U.N. believes Israel has a right to exist.
Actually, the current pre-emptive action is similarly accepted by most of the world -- if you count out the Left, France, and Kofi Annan.
Even the Iraqis are behind it.
But, really, I was just finishing the sentence for the guy. We've already argued -- to death -- the legitimacy/illegitimacy of the war in Iraq in countless other threads; why continue here?
So then you agree that any Country has the right to pre-emptive strike?
Yep. Well, more like the opportunity to act pre-emptively. Of course, you have to be able to articulate what you're pre-empting. Victory or defeat will determine whether you were right or wrong.
If we lose in Iraq, the United States will be villified (even more than we are now). If we win, the United States will be lionized by all (but the Left, of course.)
Every war is won before it is fought.
Articulate? HOw hard is it to articulate "We are attacking first!"?
Victory or defeat does not always determin whether you were right or wrong. I'm sure many Germans thought Hitler was right because they had victory.
Victory in Iraq is not as simple as "win" or "lose" in my opinion. We may win the "war" but will we win the battle? I hope and pray that the Iraqi people succeed in their new government but I see a real possibility of a civil war if things do not go as planned.
Only time will tell.
And stop the "left" crap already. I'm just as proud and love my Country just as much as anyone on the "right". And my liberal left ass has SERVED my Country.
Enough said.
Yep. You've done your duty...now, you feel like you have the right to drag our current soldiers down by opposing their mission. Got it.
Here we go again with the "your against the troops" crap. Your "Commander in Chief" sent them on this mission. It's His mision.
I'm just waiting for someone to enumerate what civil liberties the government is infringing on in all of our lives.
Waiting longer at the airport to get through security and having to take off your shoes <> civil liberties.
speaking FOR, the Patriot Act?
my life
not many
but thats the lamest arguement ive ever heard
you want me as the mayor of Inez Texas to pass a law saying i can kick people in the nuts
no, that would be unlawful
if you were a chick in didnt have nuts would it still be ok?
what if you lived in Telfener Texas?
under the patriot act
rights as in rights
due process/speedy trial
illegal search and seizure
the right to privacy that has been granted to americans by legislation
just to be assholes
right to assemble
freedom of the press
The UN does not recognize Israel? That's news to me.
I was just saying the only thing closest to a model justified preemptive war was that one, and its funny how no other preemptive attack has been widely considered justified but that one.
Like you said, 'if you count of the left, france, kofi, etc'
I'm not saying we should argue over if Iraq is justified or not but one thing we can both say is that its not widely accepted to be justified.
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