Kobe's Legend

[Obstructed_View]

Not a great argument. Shaq didn't win without Kobe, but he did pretty well with a blood clot the size of your fist in his thigh. MJ never had anyone anywhere near Shaq in talent. Pippen is better than Odom, but Odom is way better than he's been on the Lakers.

PS Kobe <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Jordan

[1Parker1]

What the heck are you talking about "He did pretty well with a blood clot in his thigh." Yes, Shaq was "injured" last season in Game 7, but the bottom line remains the same. He has yet to win anything without Kobe also. Yet, no one ever seems to think that Shaq has anything to prove. During their 3-peat, yes Shaq was a large reason why the Lakers won, but Kobe was not just your average sidekick. He was also a large reason why they won...without him, you think Shaq would have still won those three rings?

My end point is this: Yes, Jordan>>>Kobe indivudual talent-wise. No one can compare to Jordan. But you can't really use the argument that Kobe needs to win X amount of rings to prove himself, and not do the same for Shaq.

[mikejones99]

KObe is not a Rapist but Kate Faber is a and got paid well.

[Obstructed_View]

What the heck are you talking about "He did pretty well with a blood clot in his thigh." Yes, Shaq was "injured" last season in Game 7, but the bottom line remains the same. He has yet to win anything without Kobe also. Yet, no one ever seems to think that Shaq has anything to prove. During their 3-peat, yes Shaq was a large reason why the Lakers won, but Kobe was not just your average sidekick. He was also a large reason why they won...without him, you think Shaq would have still won those three rings?

My end point is this: Yes, Jordan>>>Kobe indivudual talent-wise. No one can compare to Jordan. But you can't really use the argument that Kobe needs to win X amount of rings to prove himself, and not do the same for Shaq.

First of all, this thread is called "Kobe's Legend", so we are primarily talking about Kobe. I didn't know that I was going to have to make the same arguments about Shaq in order to have the right to say anything about Kobe.

Second, regardless of your effort to minimize it, Shaq had a blood clot in his thigh that actually had to be drained more than once. That makes your continued questioning of Shaq extraordinarily weak.

Third, Shaq has been to the finals once without Kobe and, even injured, was in game 7 of the ECF while Kobe's team was watching the game on TV. Kobe now finds himself at the same place Jordan was very early in his career; option 1 and 2 on a team where his incredible scoring ability doesn't translate to wins. In my opinion, he doesn't get credit for the rings with Shaq if he wants to be considered as great as Jordan. Period.

[ajh18]

I swear people on this forum are re ed. Like I said, if this was a spur player there would 30 threads dedicated to his greatness. Yeah, TD scoring 45 per game will never happen regardless of who he has on his team. Remember, IKobe scored 9 games of 40 plus 2 years ago. Denying his talent is sad and the rapist comments are juvenille at best, which doesn't surprise me coming from Spur fans.

Ok, I've read this entire thread now and feel that there are some things that need to be said. First off, Kobe is a very gifted basketball player, no doubt about it. Is he one of the best ever? Well, talent wise he is up there, but he isn't the be-all and end-all people make him out to be. He's a great scorer with average shot selection, and a good defender. He is also, according to old Hollinger as of December, on pace to have a year in which he is the biggest ballhog of alltime on any team. I'll see if I can find the link to that article. In terms of individual effectiveness, others have put up stats as well as kobe has recently from the shooting guard spot (think Iceman, Dominique Wilkins, or a younger Vince Carter), and in regards to carrying a mediocre to poor team the way he has, I would be willing to wager that an effetive big man like a young Robinson or Shaq (not to mention Hakeem, who DID carry a team to a le himself), would equate to a better record for the lakers than kobe has on their own. They would make the playoffs, to say the least. THis could however be due to the dynamics of the position rather than the player's skill level, so that debate is pointless also. Finally, I resent the statement that Spurs fans are re ed or juvenile because they judge kobe based on the rape charge or adultery. Some fans, especially spurs fans, place as much value on the character of the individuals on a team as they do on the teams' success (and an argument can be made that the two often go hand in hand, though not always). There is no shame being proud of our team for having players who don't get arrested or charged for criminal behavior, and for some it is frustrating to see someone who is given so much and yet displays so many acts of arrogance.

[Obstructed_View]

Many Spurs fans know what it's like to have an elite scorer on a team that doesn't win which is why many aren't impressed.

What's really sad in all this is that Laker fans are more interested in pumping up the individual greatness of a single player because that's all they have to hang their hat on. You guys are now officially the Sixers.

[BJack24]

Kobe is a rare combination in pro sports - a rapist and a ballhog.

Suck it faker fans.

You sure are a knowledgeable sports fan...

[Brutalis]

[nkdlunch]

MJ in his prime would make Kobe look like a punk

[Medvedenko]

Well, Kobe isn't in his prime yet, so I guess we'll just see. I believe neither player would slow each other down. But I do remember a few years back where kobe scored 42 in the half against an albeit aging Jordan...still food for thought.

[nkdlunch]

Well, Kobe isn't in his prime yet, so I guess we'll just see. I believe neither player would slow each other down. But I do remember a few years back where kobe scored 42 in the half against an albeit aging Jordan...still food for thought.

Kobe not in his prime yet???!?!?! he's 28 right??? in his 9th year. Of course he is in his prime and will be past it soon.

[Medvedenko]

Ah, the good old days.....

[midnightpulp]

We saw, and are seeing.

lol

6-24

[badfish22]

Ah, the good old days.....

back before you retired your basketball "takes"

[midnightpulp]

We're almost five years since your quote, and yet it still rings true even today.

Not really.

Still choked in the Finals and got saved.

But on the other hand, I think it's kind of cool that the Lakers have the 3rd best player in the league and can go back-to-back. They're the quintessential example of team play (when Kobe knows his role and doesn't chuck).

[Medvedenko]

Yup, the good old days, the all or nothing days...

Luva, preach on brotha, preach on.

[midnightpulp]

Yup, the good old days, the all or nothing days...

Luva, preach on brotha, preach on.

lol bandwagon Lakers fan from Canada who highlights his hair and scowls like a child molester.

[TinTin]

[LkrFan]

Strip away Kobe's career earnings. He still worth more than Jim:

This one Kobe investment netted him a cool $194 million dollars. Jim lost millions investing in Maybelline. He even took paycuts from the Spurs

Kobe 5, Jim 4.61
Kobe 2 Gold Medals, Jim 1 Bronze Medal

Advantage: Kobe

[LkrFan]

First of all, I don't know if you were referring to me, but I'm not hating on Kobe Bryant at all. I think he's clearly one of the best players in the league. All I said was we don't know yet if he can carry a team to a championship.

Secondly, as great as Kobe is, he's not "so far ahead of anyone in the L" right now. I personally think he's better than LeBron James, but LeBron is not far behind. I think Kevin Garnett is easily at the same level as Kobe even if his stats are a little down this year. KG just doesn't try to score 40 points a game. Allen Iverson is easily at the same level as Kobe, even though Kobe is a little better. And, argue all you want, but Vince Carter is playing just as well as Kobe is right now. Making a blanket statement that Kobe is far and away better than everyone else in the league really shows your bias.




Lastly, in which championship of the Lakers threepeat was Kobe the #1 option? You're kidding right?

1999-2000 REGULAR SEASON
Kobe Bryant: 22.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, 4.9 apg
Shaquille O'Neal: 29.7 ppg, 13.6 rpg, 3.8 apg

2000 PLAYOFFS
Kobe Bryant: 21.1 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.4 apg
Shaquille O'Neal: 30.7 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 3.1 apg


2000-01 REGULAR SEASON
Kobe Bryant: 28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg
Shaquille O'Neal: 28.7 ppg, 12.7 rpg, 3.7 apg

2001 PLAYOFFS
Kobe Bryant: 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg
Shaquille O'Neal: 30.4 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 3.2 apg


2001-02 REGULAR SEASON
Kobe Bryant: 25.2 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 5.5 apg
Shaquille O'Neal: 27.2 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 3.0 apg

2002 PLAYOFFS
Kobe Bryant: 26.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.6 apg
Shaquille O'Neal: 28.5 ppg, 12.6 rpg, 2.8 apg


When again was Kobe the no. 1 option for a Lakers championship team? Even if you want to argue that Kobe and Shaq were both both equally the no. 1 go-to guy, that doesn't change the my question wondering if Kobe can carry and lead his team to championship as the no. 1 go-to guy. Not sharing the that responsibility. But, being the flat out no. 1 option. You can criticize Shaquille O'Neal the same way. What has Shaq won without Kobe? True. But, Shaq has a better argument that he was the number one option on those Lakers teams. And, Shaq has been to the NBA finals and to another conference final without Kobe. The one year Kobe did not have Shaq, his team failed to make the playoffs.

Kobe is great. He's probably a hall of famer already. But, don't get too carried away.

Great post Jam

[LkrFan]

Kobe basically made over $500 million. More than likely he will make more. Jim? Bought a gym for me hermano, unknowingly

[daslicer]

Strip away Kobe's career earnings. He still worth more than Jim:

This one Kobe investment netted him a cool $194 million dollars. Jim lost millions investing in Maybelline. He even took paycuts from the Spurs

Kobe 5, Jim 4.61
Kobe 2 Gold Medals, Jim 1 Bronze Medal

Advantage: Kobe

you are 40 years old and still a fanboy. Bragging about how much a player makes is something a kid does not a middle aged man.

[LkrFan]

you are 40 years old and still a fanboy. Bragging about how much a player makes is something a kid does not a middle aged man.

40 years old?

[Mitch]

40 years old?

yo pendejo

recuerde limpiar las ventanas

[DAF86]

Kobe's legend: 12 and falling down. 50 years from now he will probably not even be top 30.