Small Ball Cost This Team

[SlovenianGuy]

Jim, Rebounding was the Spurs achilles heel ALL season, not just against the Mavs. Even when Rasho/Nazr started the other 82 regular season games, more often than not, the other team ended up outrebounding us.

That's new to me.

In this season the Spurs had a difference of +1.17 RPG.

[Jimcs50]

Jim, I don't get it...who would you have proposed guarded Dirk? Duncan would have been put into foul trouble...as I am sure Rasho and Nazr would have as well. So, in essence they wouldn't have been able to play that many minutes anyways.

I, too, had ini ally thought small ball, lack of inside depth/rebounding was what killed the Spurs. However, after re-watching the last game, I realize that it wasn't as bad as it seemed. Think about it: Dallas shot 80% in Game 7, Spurs still managed to come back from 20 down with their small lineup to almost win the game and series. Games 5 and 6, despite getting outrebounded, Spurs still managed to win the game. My point is, that despite poor rebounding and lack of inside presence, Spurs were still close enough to win it.

Small Ball didn't cost the team, lack of bench production did. Horry, Barry, NVE were non-existent almost in this series. Meanwhile, Stackhouse, KVH, and Diop were giving the Mavs quality minutes/points.

They would never shoot 80% had the Spurs played the defense that they have played since 1997....that is my point.

Dallas had an easy time scoring because we tried to be Dallas instead of being the 3 time champion, do you not understand that???

The Spurs were the best defensive team in the league the last 9 yrs overall, they never gave up that kind of shooting before. Even this year, the Spurs were 2nd best in FG% defense and that was with a team that was not near 100% all year.

Why you say???How can that be, w/o TD and Manu being near healthy???? Because of the defensive philosophy, that is why???

[DarrinS]

The Spurs are NOT the Phoenix Suns with TD being Amare Stoudimire!!!!
Why try to be the Suns, the Spurs beat the Suns?

3 championships were won because of DEFENSE and REBOUNDING!!!!!!

Actually, we played Phoenix-like basketball in that series.

Game 1 SAS 121, PHO 114
Game 2 SAS 111, PHO 108
Game 3 SAS 102, PHO 92
Game 4 PHO 111, SAS 106
Game 5 SAS 101, PHO 95


Believe it or not, the Spurs have been able to adapt fairly well, based on who they're playing. You ALWAYS have to play the matchup that gives your team the best chance to win. If Nazr or Rasho had significant minutes in this series, there probably wouldn't have even been a game 6.

[Jimcs50]

Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nazr/Rasho

TD and Rasho>>>>>>>>>Wallace brothers

[CosmicCowboy]

Jim...I am not going to waste any more time arguing this point. The rules are changing and the Spurs are changing with them. Slow it down, half court twin tower defense is a dinosaur. The game is getting faster because of rule change/interpretation and forcing us to play frequent 5 man perimeter defense. The classic 1,2,3,4,5, positions are getting more and more blurred every year. A big klutz on the perimeter is an automatic mismatch and your other players get in foul trouble trying to play help defense. Did you notice all the blocking fouls in the playoffs? If you leave your man to help they are gonna call it almost every time.

I have faith in the Spurs organization to adjust and thrive in the new game. There may only be one Dirk Nowitzki, but theres only one Tim Duncan too. I like our chances as long as he stays healthy.

[Jimcs50]

Actually, we played Phoenix-like basketball in that series.

Game 1 SAS 121, PHO 114
Game 2 SAS 111, PHO 108
Game 3 SAS 102, PHO 92
Game 4 PHO 111, SAS 106
Game 5 SAS 101, PHO 95


Believe it or not, the Spurs have been able to adapt fairly well, based on who they're playing. You ALWAYS have to play the matchup that gives your team the best chance to win. If Nazr or Rasho had significant minutes in this series, there probably wouldn't have even been a game 6.

Nazr was huge in that series.

We outrebounded Phoenix my a mile...look it up.

[ShoogarBear]

Ben Wallace/Rasheed Wallace>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nazr/Rasho

Last time I looked Nazr and Rasho didn't play at the same time. Tim Duncan played along side of them.

[travis2]

TD could guard Howard, the way Rose guarded Shaq...it is called HELP DEFENSE.

YOU FUNNEL THE PLAYER BASELINE INTO THE SHOT BLOCKERS!!!!!!!

no, No NO!!!

, I'd rather TD guard Dirk. You put him on Howard and he either (1) drives around Tim before he can "funnel" him, or (more likely) (2) drives past, drawing contact, sending Tim to the bench to sit in foul trouble.

Tim is nowhere NEAR quick enough to funnel him to the baseline. Tim is a funnel-EE...not a funnel-ER.

[1Parker1]

TD and Rasho>>>>>>>>>Wallace brothers

Are you serious?

[DarrinS]

They would never shoot 80% had the Spurs played the defense that they have played since 1997....that is my point.

PERIMETER DEFENSE!


Those shots in the first quarter would not have been altered ONE IOTA with a center in the game. It's not like they were plastering us with slam dunks on every possession.

We were watching the same game, right?

[Jimcs50]

Jim...I am not going to waste any more time arguing this point. The rules are changing and the Spurs are changing with them. Slow it down, half court twin tower defense is a dinosaur. The game is getting faster because of rule change/interpretation and forcing us to play frequent 5 man perimeter defense. The classic 1,2,3,4,5, positions are getting more and more blurred every year. A big klutz on the perimeter is an automatic mismatch and your other players get in foul trouble trying to play help defense. Did you notice all the blocking fouls in the playoffs? If you leave your man to help they are gonna call it almost every time.

I have faith in the Spurs organization to adjust and thrive in the new game. There may only be one Dirk Nowitzki, but theres only one Tim Duncan too. I like our chances as long as he stays healthy.

WHY DID WE HAVE BLOCKING FOULS!!!????

Because we had no shot blockers and we had to try to take charges.....do you not see that??????????????????????????????????????????

[ShoogarBear]

Actually, we played Phoenix-like basketball in that series.

We played more at their pace, but we didn't play small ball.

[MadDog73]

Look. You cannot say the Spurs would have won by playing Nazr and Rasho, because you don't know. You just don't. You can keep saying "We would have won, we would have won", until you're blue in the face, but it doesn't make you right.

If we got blown out in 5 games playing small ball, then I'd agree with you. I'd be calling for Pop's head on a stick. But the fact is, we almost won.

I would not trade a chance to win for an unknown.

[Jimcs50]

PERIMETER DEFENSE!


Those shots in the first quarter would not have been altered ONE IOTA with a center in the game. It's not like they were plastering us with slam dunks on every possession.

We were watching the same game, right?

READ MY LIPS!!!!!!


The Guards had to play 3 ft from the Dallas players on perimeter because they had to stop penetration, and that is why Dallas had so many easy jumpshots.

It is all related to ed up no defense small ball.

Try to understand that, please

[DarrinS]

Nazr was huge in that series.

We outrebounded Phoenix my a mile...look it up.

Just look at the Scores.

Also, look up how many points Brent Barry had.

[Jimcs50]

Are you serious?

yes, I am dead serious. Our front line won the series last year against their front line. Their guards outplayed our guards....do you not agree?????

[DarrinS]

READ MY LIPS!!!!!!


The Guards had to play 3 ft from the Dallas players on perimeter because they had to stop penetration, and that is why Dallas had so many easy jumpshots.

It is all related to ed up no defense small ball.

Try to understand that, please

I'm sure it has nothing to do with NVE not being about to fight around a screen.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

For whatever reason(s), Nazr was in Pop's doghouse this playoffs.

Aggie's points are very valid I believe. We beat Phoenix last year playing Nazr, and that team was every bit as fast as Dallas, considerably moreso if you consider Amare was at center for Phoenix throughout most of that series. Nazr had a couple of big games in that series because of the matchup problems he can create for a small team.

On top of that, against Phoenix last year Nazr provided defense around the basket that we were sorely lacking in this series. We couldn't defend in the paint at all, except for Duncan. Horry proved he's not really any quicker of a defender than Nazr, and Nazr proved he's a better three point shooter than Horry .

What disappointed me is that we didn't experiment with Nazr and/or Rasho at all in this series. For anyone who says "we would have never matched up with Dallas' speed had we played Rasho and Nazr", just remind me. . .who is still playing? It's obvious the small ball didn't work and we didn't match up with the Dallas lineup by going small. I'm surprised at Pop, because last year he showed me he could adjust on the fly, and I figured he'd grown out of his tendency to stick with one mindset and get out-thunk by the Phil Jackson's of the world. . .but this series showed me he's still determined to stick with a single mode of thought, even if it's to the detriment of the team.

We don't know if playing our bigs would have worked in this series because we never did it. Conversely, AJ, despite Duncan killing them, played to his teams strengths in this series and didn't worry about necessarily trying to match what we were doing out there. Of course he didn't have to because we played to Dallas' style. AJ won the coaching battle in a landslide, but I'm still a fan of Pop. . .sometimes you just get out-coached, and Pop got out-coached.

[CosmicCowboy]

WHY DID WE HAVE BLOCKING FOULS!!!????

Because we had no shot blockers and we had to try to take charges.....do you not see that??????????????????????????????????????????

So you sag a big in the paint without a player to guard and hope he doesn't get called for defensive 3 seconds and then let everyone else play 4 on 5 on the perimeter with a known jumpshooting team that has good passing skills?

you may be a good dentist but you would suck as a coach...

[Jimcs50]

For whatever reason(s), Nazr was in Pop's doghouse this playoffs.

Aggie's points are very valid I believe. We beat Phoenix last year playing Nazr, and that team was every bit as fast as Dallas, considerably moreso if you consider Amare was at center for Phoenix throughout most of that series. Nazr had a couple of big games in that series because of the matchup problems he can create for a small team.

On top of that, against Phoenix last year Nazr provided defense around the basket that we were sorely lacking in this series. We couldn't defend in the paint at all, except for Duncan. Horry proved he's not really any quicker of a defender than Nazr, and Nazr proved he's a better three point shooter than Horry .

What disappointed me is that we didn't experiment with Nazr and/or Rasho at all in this series. For anyone who says "we would have never matched up with Dallas' speed had we played Rasho and Nazr", just remind me. . .who is still playing? It's obvious the small ball didn't work and we didn't match up with the Dallas lineup by going small. I'm surprised at Pop, because last year he showed me he could adjust on the fly, and I figured he'd grown out of his tendency to stick with one mindset and get out-thunk by the Phil Jackson's of the world. . .but this series showed me he's still determined to stick with a single mode of thought, even if it's to the detriment of the team.

We don't know if playing our bigs would have worked in this series because we never did it. Conversely, AJ, despite Duncan killing them, played to his teams strengths in this series and didn't worry about necessarily trying to match what we were doing out there. Of course he didn't have to because we played to Dallas' style. AJ won the coaching battle in a landslide, but I'm still a fan of Pop. . .sometimes you just get out-coached, and Pop got out-coached.

Ed, always the diplomat.

[Jimcs50]

So you sag a big in the paint without a player to guard and hope he doesn't get called for defensive 3 seconds and then let everyone else play 4 on 5 on the perimeter with a known jumpshooting team that has good passing skills?

you may be a good dentist but you would suck as a coach...

Yeah, the Spurs sagged for the last 9 yrs without getting 3 secs called and now they will be called for it????

They do not sag, they react to the offense, it is all in the scheme. Have you not watched the Spurs play since 1997?????

[CosmicCowboy]

Yeah, the Spurs sagged for the last 9 yrs without getting 3 secs called and now they will be called for it????

They do not sag, they react to the offense, it is all in the scheme. Have you not watched the Spurs play since 1997?????

Jim, the RULES HAVE CHANGED!!!!!!!!

1) No hand checks
2) No forearm checks
3) Moving screens aren't called
4) If you leave your man to block a penetrator blocking fouls are called.

Thats just in the last two years.

Oh yeah...they didn't get defensive 3 seconds called because they were WITH THEIR MAN. Everyone else was playing the same way we were. They don't now.

Don't you SEE that?

[DarrinS]

Yawn. I'm tired of this debate.


Manu doesn't foul Dirk and we'd be here talking about what a genius Pop is. Oh well. Pop has 3 rings and we're posting threads.

I think we're a little spoiled in this town.

Spurs will have the core of Tim, TP, and Ginobilli for a few more years. We surround them with a better supporting cast and we're right back in it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Yawn. I'm tired of this debate.


Manu doesn't foul Dirk and we'd be here talking about what a genius Pop is. Oh well. Pop has 3 rings and we're posting threads.

I think we're a little spoiled in this town.

Spurs will have the core of Tim, TP, and Ginobilli for a few more years. We surround them with a better supporting cast and we're right back in it.

Exactly. The "new" game benefits the Spurs as much or more than anyone. We have TP and Manu locked up long term and they are perfect players for that kind of game. Spurs will do their annual roster tweak. Tim could average 30-15 next year in that type of system and be right back into MVP contention with Manu and Parker averaging 20+ a game. Defense will still be a focus of the Spurs. Do the math. It's a great time to be a Spurs fan.

[Jimcs50]

I will not get over it.

This was the year for the Spurs to finally repeat and Pop blew it.

Pop did not make it clear to Manu to not foul, had he said in the huddle: "Do not guard the basket, under any cir stances, no matter what, let them score a layup, but do not give up a 3 pointer" then Manu would have not fouled Dirk. What Pop said, was the thing he always says and that is "no fouls" That does not make an impression on NBA pros who always think that they can make a stop. You have to be specific and that is tell them, that a 2 pt shot does not mean jack , let them have it...

Pop ed up and I think it is time for him to let PJ take over.