Small Ball Cost This Team

[MadDog73]

I will not get over it.

This was the year for the Spurs to finally repeat and Pop blew it.

Pop did not make it clear to Manu to not foul, had he said in the huddle: "Do not guard the basket, under any cir stances, no matter what, let them score a layup, but do not give up a 3 pointer" then Manu would have not fouled Dirk. What Pop said, was the thing he always says and that is "no fouls" That does not make an impression on NBA pros who always think that they can make a stop. You have to be specific and that is tell them, that a 2 pt shot does not mean jack , let them have it...

Pop ed up and I think it is time for him to let PJ take over.

OK, you've lost it Jim. From what I understood from the press conference, Pop was NOT pleased with that foul. Manu was not pleased with the foul. It was a mistake, and not Pop's mistake.

Pop is a great coach, and we will win another Championship.

Why do we need to repeat to validate how good this team and Pop is?!?

[strangeweather]

One thing that will be interesting is to see Dallas vs. either Detroit or Miami.

I bet neither of them goes small ball against the Mavs.

And I bet they do fine.

The matchups are rather different.

Shaq obviously covers the Mavs' center, as Duncan does. Haslem and Walker will probably be the main guys chasing Dirk around. If the Spurs had Haslem and Walker instead of Rasho and Nazr, I imagine they would have been chasing Dirk around for us, too.

And Dirk is going to be a for Detroit to cover, as well. He's going to get Sheed and McDyess in foul trouble if they cover him, but they;'re also at a disadvantage covering Howard, which makes switching Tayshaun a problem.

[1Parker1]

I'll concede on one point: Pop didn't even try playing Nazr/Rasho. To have expected them to come in and play effectively in Games 5-7 after being rusty from the bench would not have produced the same results. You're right in that we'll never know.

However, I think Pop's mentality was that first, Rasho/Nazr hadn't been playing all that well in towards the end. Was it Game 1 or 2 (?), where Pop gave Nazr 6 minutes, and in that stretch he fumbled an easy pass from Manu, missed his defensive rotation, and couldn't grab a rebound which cost the Spurs lead to go down. Secondly, I'm sure Pop was looking at the final score of the games. Aside from Game 2, every single game...including Game 7 was winnable by the Spurs, despite playing small-ball, despite having been outrebounded, despite allowing Mavs to score 100+. And because the games were still close and winnable, I am guessing Pop decided to go with small ball and not risk it by playing Nazr/Rasho. However, I do agree, he should have at least tried it.

But you can't really fault him, when the games were so close and it came down to luck and a shot going in or out. If Manu hadn't fouled Dirk on that play or if Duncan had made that put-back, of if Manu had passed to the wide open Horry instead of taking the layup in the end....we probably wouldn't be ing about small ball

[MadDog73]

Nazr played 11:59 in the Game 2 blowout. He netted the Spurs 4 rebounds I believe.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

OK, you've lost it Jim. From what I understood from the press conference, Pop was NOT pleased with that foul. Manu was not pleased with the foul. It was a mistake, and not Pop's mistake.

Pop is a great coach, and we will win another Championship.

Damn, but Spurs fans are greedy! Why do we need to repeat to validate how good this team is?!?

I was greedy. I want Spurs to be selfish with the Championship! Damn it! I think it's good to have this at ude.

No sympathy for Dirk. Even when he said that he's getting "...frustrated I'd finally like to participate in the Finals " when you hear that the humane side of you wants to be considerate towards his perspective. The compe ive side just says, "Aww Poor Baby" and proceed by bringing the hammer down.

I want them to get it every year. Had they said, "I'll try" and shown a half-assed effort then, I'd be pretty pissed. They've done it before in the 2001-2002,2004 years. They didn't this year. They gave their best effort to go all the way. Came up short. So you can't complain.

That's where the greed stops and the sensibility kicks in, they've already proven they're winners TWICE in 3 years! No validation needed really.
Next year to go all the way, they're just gonna have to and overshoot themselves to the le instead of coming up short.

[MadDog73]

I was greedy. I want Spurs to be selfish with the Championship! Damn it! I think it's good to have this at ude.

No sympathy for Dirk. Even when he said that he's getting "...frustrated I'd finally like to participate in the Finals " when you hear that the humane side of you wants to be considerate towards his perspective. The compe ive side just says, "Aww Poor Baby" and proceed by bringing the hammer down.

I want them to get it every year. Had they said, "I'll try" and shown a half-assed effort then, I'd be pretty pissed. They've done it before in the 2001-2002,2004 years. They didn't this year. They gave their best effort to go all the way. Came up short. So you can't complain.

That's where the greed stops and the sensibility kicks in, they've already proven they're winners TWICE in 3 years! No validation needed really.
Next year to go all the way, they're just gonna have to and overshoot themselves to the le instead of coming up short.

I agree completely, I was just saying that Jim's accusation that Pop sucks because he can't repeat is pretty stupid.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I'll concede on one point: Pop didn't even try playing Nazr/Rasho. To have expected them to come in and play effectively in Games 5-7 after being rusty from the bench would not have produced the same results. You're right in that we'll never know.

However, I think Pop's mentality was that first, Rasho/Nazr hadn't been playing all that well in towards the end. Was it Game 1 or 2 (?), where Pop gave Nazr 6 minutes, and in that stretch he fumbled an easy pass from Manu, missed his defensive rotation, and couldn't grab a rebound which cost the Spurs lead to go down. Secondly, I'm sure Pop was looking at the final score of the games. Aside from Game 2, every single game...including Game 7 was winnable by the Spurs, despite playing small-ball, despite having been outrebounded, despite allowing Mavs to score 100+. And because the games were still close and winnable, I am guessing Pop decided to go with small ball and not risk it by playing Nazr/Rasho. However, I do agree, he should have at least tried it.

But you can't really fault him, when the games were so close and it came down to luck and a shot going in or out. If Manu hadn't fouled Dirk on that play or if Duncan had made that put-back, of if Manu had passed to the wide open Horry instead of taking the layup in the end....we probably wouldn't be ing about small ball

I think we'd hear a few quiet whispers complaining about the margin of victories being too close for comfort...only to be shushed by "we WON and You still complain??"

I think the complaints against Small-Ball are a valid point though. We never once gotten a consistent lead using it over the Mavs, basically the Mavs were at the advantage (with Nowitzki and his deep bench of scorers) the whole series and we were the scrappy underdog thanks to a few hustle plays by Manu in tandem with Duncan's Superman heroics. People don't realize that they aren't complaining about Small ball though. They're just addressing the fact that Mavs were built to kill us.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

I agree completely, I was just saying that Jim's accusation that Pop sucks because he can't repeat is pretty stupid.

I think Pop will eventually repeat, and just got plain outmatched with the response the league had to us Spurs.

Pop almost did it. I think each year he gets better as a coach. He's a lot more willing to compromise than Larry Brown with his players and style. I don't think people realize that had Pop not gone small we wouldn't have gotten to game 6 even. Then we would have been hearing how stupid Pop was for not seeing Avery's mismatch. And how embarassing it was to lose by 10,15,20 every game.
Blame our lack of an extra long athletic rebounder this season.

If Pop gets to the 4th, and 5th le, he'll remove all doubt, even if it's not through a repeat. Though I think we can with this core. If anything has shown, with all that griping about Mavs series "Make them adapt to us!" They just did! And Small-ball had to counter it.

Ever since Shaq's Dynasty got dismantled, the whole league has been adapting to the Spurs in the last 2,3 years!

[Jimcs50]

I agree completely, I was just saying that Jim's accusation that Pop sucks because he can't repeat is pretty stupid.

Where did I say that????

I said Pop sucks because of small ball and not making it clear to NOT foul anywhere near the basket, and that they can give up a layup with no problem...in fact he should have just told the players that if they get 5 ft from the basket, just back off and say "go ahead and make it, we are up 3" The Mavs could have had 3 baskets in last 20 secs with that philosophy and we would have won, beacause Mnu and Finley would have made their FTs, that I have no doubt about.

I told my buddy during the timeout, "I hope the Mavs go to the basket instead of try a 3" when Dirk drove, I said, "yes!" Give them all the layups they want, just no 3 pointers.

[DarrinS]

I told my buddy during the timeout, "I hope the Mavs go to the basket instead of try a 3" when Dirk drove, I said, "yes!" Give them all the layups they want, just no 3 pointers.

Whether or not Pop said anything to the players, they are smart enough to know NOT to foul in that situation. Based on how the series had been called to that point, anyone would know that if you so much as fart in Dirk's general direction, he's going to the line. I would have been ok with the foul, just not the "and one". Ironically, Dirk appears to tomahawk both Ginobilli AND Duncan on the final play of regulation.

[blaze89]

People keep bringing up the Phoenix series from last year, if I recall, Shawn Marion was a non-factor and Joe Johnson was coming off an injury and Q. Richardson didn't deliver much. It was mainly Stoudamire and Nash.

Different scenarios.

[blaze89]

Ginobili going for the block was Ginobili being himself, he takes risks, plays all out effort, it's what's he always done since he's came into the NBA. Live with it.

[Jimcs50]

Whether or not Pop said anything to the players, they are smart enough to know NOT to foul in that situation. Based on how the series had been called to that point, anyone would know that if you so much as fart in Dirk's general direction, he's going to the line. I would have been ok with the foul, just not the "and one". Ironically, Dirk appears to tomahawk both Ginobilli AND Duncan on the final play of regulation.

Players do not coach themselves, it is the multimillion dollar coach's responsibility to make sure that the players do not have to make decisions that will end their year. Manu thinks he can make plays, he is a pro, that is his nature, but had Pop said: "LET THEM HAVE LAYUPS", Manu would not have tried to block the shot.

This was all on Pop.

[travis2]

[blaze89]

Players do not coach themselves, it is the multimillion dollar coach's responsibility to make sure that the players do not have to make decisions that will end their year. Manu thinks he can make plays, he is a pro, that is his nature, but had Pop said: "LET THEM HAVE LAYUPS", Manu would not have tried to block the shot.

This was all on Pop.

You have got to be kidding?

[MadDog73]

Players do not coach themselves, it is the multimillion dollar coach's responsibility to make sure that the players do not have to make decisions that will end their year. Manu thinks he can make plays, he is a pro, that is his nature, but had Pop said: "LET THEM HAVE LAYUPS", Manu would not have tried to block the shot.

This was all on Pop.

You have got to be kidding me! OMG, that has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum. That's like saying it's Larry Brown's fault that Rasheed left Horry open last year. Or Pop's fault Tim missed his free throw. It's stupid and juvenile. The Spurs lost, for many factors, but Manu's foul is NOT Pop's fault.

Jim, the Mavs are a great team. The sooner you accept that, and accept the fact the Spurs lost a close game in the last seconds, the happier you'll be.

Cause I guarantee you this: Pop will still be coaching next year. Rasho and/or Nazr will be gone. And the Spurs will still be in the playoffs, with a chance to win another Championship.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Sorry. When you said that we should stick with what won for us in the regular season, I didn't realize that you think it's okay to throw tempo and playing style out the window as long as we do it with exactly the same lineup.

strangeweather, we won a le last year. We played small ball against Phoenix, beat them in *6 games*, and did it with Nazr and Tim Duncan on our front line.

I'm sorry this is lost on you. I give up.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I recall, Shawn Marion was a non-factor and Joe Johnson was coming off an injury and Q. Richardson didn't deliver much.

Um, Marion and QRich didn't deliver much because of our DEFENSE, which Pop shredded this year because he decided to get cute with small ball.

You're right, different scenarios.

[strangeweather]

strangeweather, we won a le last year. We played small ball against Phoenix, beat them in *6 games*, and did it with Nazr and Tim Duncan on our front line.

Since you mentioned it, it was 5 games.

Yeah, we did it with Mohammed in the lineup, but we still made adjustments to our allegedly sacrosanct game for their style of play. And really, if we had last year's Nazr on this team, he probably would have seen some real minutes against Dallas.

But Nazr played like ass this year -- which means we had the choice between the lumbering center that can't play against athletic teams and the butterfingers center that makes plays that kill us. Which one of these guys do you see leading us to victory?

[DarrinS]

Since you mentioned it, it was 5 games.

Yeah, we did it with Mohammed in the lineup, but we still made adjustments to our allegedly sacrosanct game for their style of play. And really, if we had last year's Nazr on this team, he probably would have seen some real minutes against Dallas.

But Nazr played like ass this year -- which means we had the choice between the lumbering center that can't play against athletic teams and the butterfingers center that makes plays that kill us. Which one of these guys do you see leading us to victory?

Bingo. We have a winner.

[blaze89]

Um, Marion and QRich didn't deliver much because of our DEFENSE, which Pop shredded this year because he decided to get cute with small ball.

You're right, different scenarios.

Don't forget about Phoenix lack of attention to any defensive philosophy - better yet, their defense was their offense.

Now, you sacrifice offense for rebounds with a player who not exactly a rebounding machine. A team with three scorers against a team with four, maybe to prevent the drive but as one player drives and then dishes it out to to the perimeter. You couldn't foul the Mavericks cause they are a good FT shooting team.

OK, so you put Rasho in to guard the Mavs center, leaving Duncan to guard Howard - who I saw sitting out in the perimeter. What's to stop Avery Johnson to take out Diop, Dampier in place of another guard?

I'd agree if the Spurs lost by 20 in 5 games and were completely run out of the gym but 6 games were close and went down to the last minute and were lost to little things - turnover, bad calls, bad fouls - and in the game 7, the Spurs came back from 20 down with "small ball" unless I was completely lost and missed Rasho and Nazr lead the rally.

[rr2418]

Id like for someone to give me the name of the bigman to play.

Mohammed stunk.

Rasho was worthless.


Who else?


And for the love of god do not say Sean Marks.

Sean Marks !! j/k

Pop didn't have to play big all the time, but maybe in certain situations. What are those situations? I'm not sure. All I know is that Pop got away from what was so successful. Can you imagine Texas Tech running the wishbone 50 times in a game and abandoning their run and shoot air attack just b/c the opposing team was defending the pass well? TT isn't a good team as it is, they probably wouldn't score a td!! I know I went off track here, but I'm trying to make a point that Pop shouldn't have gone away from the bigs, at least not totally. Dirk was incredible in this series, but having a big with length might've made some of Nowitski's shots a bit difficult. Also, the
Spurs pride themselves on stopping players from penatrating the lane. A big might've made the shot more difficult. Maybe imploring a zone just to mix things up along with a big might've worked, who knows? Like many of the posters said, I think Pop jumped the gun and really thought he could match up with them better by going small, but the smalls the Spurs have are dependant on the bigs clogging the lanes and getting rebounds. Again, Rasho and Nazi aren't the second coming, but they might've gotten some key rebounds.

[velik_m]

OK, so you put Rasho in to guard the Mavs center, leaving Duncan to guard Howard - who I saw sitting out in the perimeter. What's to stop Avery Johnson to take out Diop, Dampier in place of another guard?

and have Dirk on Duncan? cool! than spurs could take out Rasho.

[travis2]

Sean Marks !! j/k

Pop didn't have to play big all the time, but maybe in certain situations. What are those situations? I'm not sure. All I know is that Pop got away from what was so successful. Can you imagine Texas Tech running the wishbone 50 times in a game and abandoning their run and shoot air attack just b/c the opposing team was defending the pass well? TT isn't a good team as it is, they probably wouldn't score a td!! I know I went off track here, but I'm trying to make a point that Pop shouldn't have gone away from the bigs, at least not totally. Dirk was incredible in this series, but having a big with length might've made some of Nowitski's shots a bit difficult. Also, the
Spurs pride themselves on stopping players from penatrating the lane. A big might've made the shot more difficult. Maybe imploring a zone just to mix things up along with a big might've worked, who knows? Like many of the posters said, I think Pop jumped the gun and really thought he could match up with them better by going small, but the smalls the Spurs have are dependant on the bigs clogging the lanes and getting rebounds. Again, Rasho and Nazi aren't the second coming, but they might've gotten some key rebounds.

You're contradicting yourself in here. Dirk is not a post-up forward...when he went to the basket he started from outside. So you couldn't have a big guarding Dirk and clogging the lanes at the same time.

Look...again...putting Rasho or Nazr on Dirk outside the lane would have been a massacre...Dirk is too quick for either one of them. Leaving either one down low either leaves Dirk open, puts Tim on Dirk, or puts Tim on someone even harder for him to cover. None of the above would have worked.

It's just not that hard a concept to understand.

[Jimcs50]

You have got to be kidding me! OMG, that has to be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum. That's like saying it's Larry Brown's fault that Rasheed left Horry open last year. Or Pop's fault Tim missed his free throw. It's stupid and juvenile. The Spurs lost, for many factors, but Manu's foul is NOT Pop's fault.

Jim, the Mavs are a great team. The sooner you accept that, and accept the fact the Spurs lost a close game in the last seconds, the happier you'll be.

Cause I guarantee you this: Pop will still be coaching next year. Rasho and/or Nazr will be gone. And the Spurs will still be in the playoffs, with a chance to win another Championship.

I am not kidding.

Do you see a difference in saying, "no fouls" and saying, "Let them alone if they get to the rim"?

Had Pop said what my friend and said during the timeout( Let them have 2 points), we would be playing tonight.