The Spurs must trade for a long SF

[Mr. Body]

he also hits most of his freethrows, so let's go back to a 60% ft shooter like Pietrus or GWallace.

[mountainballer]

One thing to consider about Korolev is that Clippers haven't picked his option for the third year of his rookie contract. He will be an unrestricted free agent next summer. If Spurs are high on him they can sign him this summer.

that's a bit strange indeed. remember there were rumors that the Spurs might not pick the option for Beno, but then they did abd one used argument was, that it would also hurt Beno's trade value if they didn't.
this might indicate that the Clippers already tried to trade Korolev and failed and now just give up on him.
I don't know, maybe I'm overrating him.
(or just hope that he will break out one day, because I like this type of player he might be)

At some point I'll have to review the Draft boards and see who the Clippers could have had instead of him.

there you will find a lot of interesting players. (interesting for the Clippers or any other team, I'm only considering talent, not team needs).

Danny Granger, Gerald Greene, Hakim Warrick, David Lee, Monta Ellis, Ryan Gomes.

my problem as a Spurs fan is, that I'm am not on the Mahinmi bandwagon and really doubt that it was the often commented genious find in the Tony-Manu mold again.
so when looking at the 2005 draft board I also see some players Spurs should have picked instead of Ian.
I fear in summer 2005 the Spurs were so impressed by Amare, that they thought of finding a player with similar athletic abilities who will once be able to guard Amare.
we could also have Lee, Ellis, Gomes, Turiaf (the better version of Butler IMO) on the roster.
, back then I was sure the Spurs should go for a french player, but I was thinking of Milkael Gelabale.
(even if he is struggling in his first weeks with the Sonics, especially because of Wilkins surprising good play who cuts Gelabales minutes)

[Bruno]

that's a bit strange indeed. remember there were rumors that the Spurs might not pick the option for Beno, but then they did abd one used argument was, that it would also hurt Beno's trade value if they didn't.
this might indicate that the Clippers already tried to trade Korolev and failed and now just give up on him.

Beno's case was quite different :
- Beno has proved that he can contribute in the nba. He has been a quality backup in his first year while Korolev has shown nothing (except a preseason
game where he has well played).
- Beno's option was $1.7M, Korolev's option was $2.7M. Clippers haven't picked his option because of the luxury tax too.

But I agree with you that it's little strange. Korolev is really young (19 years old) and has a lot of upside. He should have been atrocious in practice or he should have a bad work ethic.

my problem as a Spurs fan is, that I'm am not on the Mahinmi bandwagon and really doubt that it was the often commented genious find in the Tony-Manu mold again.
so when looking at the 2005 draft board I also see some players Spurs should have picked instead of Ian.
I fear in summer 2005 the Spurs were so impressed by Amare, that they thought of finding a player with similar athletic abilities who will once be able to guard Amare.
we could also have Lee, Ellis, Gomes, Turiaf (the better version of Butler IMO) on the roster.
, back then I was sure the Spurs should go for a french player, but I was thinking of Milkael Gelabale.
(even if he is struggling in his first weeks with the Sonics, especially because of Wilkins surprising good play who cuts Gelabales minutes)

I disagree with you on that.

Of course, Spurs can regret to have missed Ellis.

I still take Mahinmi over Lee, Gomes and Turiaf because :

- Lee, Gomes, and Turiaf have been good in nba but they are too limited players because of their skillsets/body. They are just good role players. Mahinmi on the other hand has a lot of upside.

- Mahinmi is 3 or 4 years younger than Lee, Gomes and Turiaf. It's way too soon to judge him, he is just 20 years old. A lot of people that have seen him think he has something special. I've realy liked what I've seen from him but he still very raw : with more waight and more experience he cna become a very good nba player.

- Even if Mahinmi is a bust, I won't really regret Lee, Gomes, or Turiaf. You can find this kind of players (PFs who are good role players but not dominant) eash year in the second round of the draft. In the 06 draft Leon Powe and Paul Millsap are second rounder who will be as good (or better) than Lee, Gomes and Turiaf. You can find them too in DLeague like Chuck Hayes last year, this year Justin Williams seems to be a good candidate to have some success in nba. You can find them in europe too like Udonis Haslem who played in France.

And I don't see the link between Turiaf and Butler, they are very different players.

[my2sons]

ok according to whott we won't get by dallas, houston or la without a long three. hmm i'll stick to pop's assessment of the team and its needs, he's done pretty well over the years.

[ManuTastic]

Nice discussion of a serious need for SA. I know a lot less about these guys than you do, but a few comments:
-Gerald Wallace looks like a good guy to have around. If he could be pried loose, I'd do it.
-Desmond Mason looked pretty darn good last night; I covet him too.
-SJax is, ahem, available.

[Mr. Body]

I'm not on the Mahinmi bandwaggon, either. If he ever develops into a decent rotation guy, much less a starter, it may be a couple years from now, even three, four, or five. Do we honestly think Duncan and Manu will still be at their peaks three years from now? They'll still be around, but we'll hopefully be focusing the offense largely in other areas with Parker and newcomers.

I'd take David Lee right now in a heartbeat over the promise of Ian Mahinmi. Here's a guy who could get 8-10 rebounds for us off the bench, hustle hard, and play solid defense RIGHT NOW, plus has the capacity to expand his game.

If they had to do it over, I also think the Spurs would take Lee over Mahinmi. We're all surprised by the guy and how good he is. Maybe not a full-time starter (but probably could), but an invaluable addition to any team. I'm not saying they blew it, but NYK's drafting has been superior to ours in the last few years and, honestly, I hope the Spurs spy on their draft room a little this summer the way NJN used to spy on ours to steal Krstic. Mahinmi is such a project, there's no reason to think anybody would have drafted him this past year, either, much less us having to burn a late first for him in 2005. He'd still be on the board this summer.

It may work out in the end, but I doubt we'll see great things from Mahinmi, and if or when we ever do, it'll be for the next generation of Spurs teams, not this one. That generation of Spurs teams will probably be getting higher draft picks, anyway, once Tim is done.

[mountainballer]

If they had to do it over, I also think the Spurs would take Lee over Mahinmi. We're all surprised by the guy and how good he is. Maybe not a full-time starter (but probably could), but an invaluable addition to any team.

agree on Lee, noone calls him a future all-star, but he isn't a player you can find that late in every draft.

Mahinmi is such a project, there's no reason to think anybody would have drafted him this past year, either, much less us having to burn a late first for him in 2005. He'd still be on the board this summer.

that is also my point. it was not a mistake to pick Mahinmi, the point is, that the Spurs used their 1st rounder without any need. they could have easily aquired an additional 2nd rounder to use it on Mahinmi. Mahinmi would have been exactly the kind of pick, Spurs usually draft in the 2nd round and leave in Europe for 4 or 5 years and patiently watch what happens.

- Mahinmi is 3 or 4 years younger than Lee, Gomes and Turiaf. It's way too soon to judge him, he is just 20 years old. A lot of people that have seen him think he has something special. I've realy liked what I've seen from him but he still very raw : with more waight and more experience he cna become a very good nba player.

that's the point. Mahinmi is already 20 years old. I know, at 20 a player still has time to develope, but even if a player starts late to play organized basektball, you expect a certain level at 20.
since the Spurs drafted him 1 1/2 years ago I tried to watch games he is in. this year, since he plays Euroleague it is easier to see him play (it's only limited minutes, thuogh). sometimes he looks so lost, that I got the feeling he just doesn't have enough game. the signs of developement, that could make you think he will be a good player in the NBA are not there IMO.
(I don't want to say he will not make it to the NBA, just that he won't be the steal some expected)

And I don't see the link between Turiaf and Butler, they are very different players.

I was thinking of which big man I would prefer on our roster. I just like Turiaf more and think he would make more impact with the Spurs than Butler, even if he is a PF (who can be used as center).

[Bruno]

Here's a guy who could get 8-10 rebounds for us off the bench, hustle hard, and play solid defense RIGHT NOW,

Lee isn't a good defender and that's the main reason why Jeffries has taken his starting spo.

Mahinmi is such a project, there's no reason to think anybody would have drafted him this past year, either, much less us having to burn a late first for him in 2005. He'd still be on the board this summer.

Wrong.
Mahinmi has stayed in the draft because Spurs have said him that they will draft him with their first round pick. Mahinmi wanted a guaranteed contract to saty in the draft.
And he would have been a first rounder in the 06 draft given that he si a better project than Pecherov.

that's the point. Mahinmi is already 20 years old. I know, at 20 a player still has time to develope, but even if a player starts late to play organized basektball, you expect a certain level at 20.

Disagree.
You had to consider that :
- Big men take longer to develop.
- Mahinmi has started to play BB at 15.
- Mahinmi's body isn't ready.

tried to watch games he is in. this year, since he plays Euroleague it is easier to see him play (it's only limited minutes, thuogh). sometimes he looks so lost, that I got the feeling he just doesn't have enough game.

Mahinmi has has a really difficult start this year and doesn't play at his real level for the moment : he has lost his confidence and his game. He has struggled a lot for three month but he has been quite good otherwise since Spurs have drafted him. He has played slighty better for few weeks but he is now injured (he will be out 3 weeks).

[Mr. Body]

Wrong.
Mahinmi has stayed in the draft because Spurs have said him that they will draft him with their first round pick. Mahinmi wanted a guaranteed contract to saty in the draft.
And he would have been a first rounder in the 06 draft given that he si a better project than Pecherov.

I know he stayed in the draft only if he would be a first round pick. That still doesn't make it a good pick. Comparing him to Pecherov is a little silly. One of those two had a good showing in the French Leagues and the other only looked decent only as a project. Which one was a total reach for the Spurs? There's no reason to assume Mahinmi would have been drafted last year in the first round - look through and tell me what team would have dropped a first on him. Which team would have promised him a first, had he declared?

As for this summer, there's no way he'd be first round talent, not for a big man with the big man depth this draft will have.

The only team that ever would have promised him a first round pick was the Spurs. When he's old enough he would have become automatically eligible, are we even sure he'd be worth a draft pick then?

The point is, we took a risk on a guy like Mahinmi that might pay dividends down the road. If he's a good back up center, great. If he's a decent starter, fantastic. But we consistently toss our first round picks into the air and never use them on the present. The international pipeline has completely dried up for us since Beno came over, and he wasn't the swell prospect we hoped him to be.

It's hard to look back and expect people to see what we know in hindsight, but sticking with drafting international has hurt us, since now we're old and haggard, even if we're playing well at the moment.

We keep punting our first round picks, I believe, because we're not good at scouting domestic talent. Isiah is (for example). If we could trade Mahinmi's rights for David Lee, I have to think in a heartbeat we'd do it. He'd be absolutely dynamite off the bench. And really, I can only hope Mahinmi is as good in his prime (what, 10 years from now?) as Lee is right now.

Mahinmi has has a really difficult start this year and doesn't play at his real level for the moment : he has lost his confidence and his game. He has struggled a lot for three month but he has been quite good otherwise since Spurs have drafted him. He has played slighty better for few weeks but he is now injured (he will be out 3 weeks).

Not very cheering, is it? I wish the best for him, but man could we use a David Lee or Renaldo Balkman right about now; we'll need that guy even more next year, when hopefully we don't draft some foreign project again. If we do so, we're dead.

[Bruno]

Comparing him to Pecherov is a little silly. One of those two had a good showing in the French Leagues and the other only looked decent only as a project.

Pecherov was a 11/6 player in the fench league, Mahinmi was a 10/5 player. Mahinmi is too one year younger than Pecherov.

As for this summer, there's no way he'd be first round talent, not for a big man with the big man depth this draft will have.

Joel Freeland was a first rounder and Mahinmi has shown ten times more thing than him while being only 3 month older.

And really, I can only hope Mahinmi is as good in his prime (what, 10 years from now?) as Lee is right now.

That's your hope but Mahinmi has the upside to be better than Lee.

Not very cheering, is it?

Not very cheering for somebody who doesn't follow him closely. Mahinmi strugling is quite logical given what has happened to him for three month.

man could we use a David Lee or Renaldo Balkman right about now; we'll need that guy even more next year

Spurs can sign Scola. In your own words : "He'd be absolutely dynamite off the bench." The only thing Lee dos better than Scola is rebounding while Scola is a way better offensive player.

when hopefully we don't draft some foreign project again. If we do so, we're dead.

I don't what you have with foreigners but Spurs have dome a great job with foreigner. Manu, Parker, Scola are great picks. Beno and Javtokas are good picks. It's too soon to say for Mahinmi and Sanikidze. The only "bust" is Karaulov and it was the 58th pick.

[mountainballer]

Spurs can sign Scola. In your own words : "He'd be absolutely dynamite off the bench." The only thing Lee dos better than Scola is rebounding while Scola is a way better offensive player.

this isn't a good comparison.
and we know Spurs can not just go out and sign Scola. they have to find an agreement and it is very unlikely that this will ever happen.
as a first rounder Lee would have been in the rookie scale (and without buyout issues), so he would be on the roster since 2005.

I don't what you have with foreigners but Spurs have dome a great job with foreigner. Manu, Parker, Scola are great picks. Beno and Javtokas are good picks. It's too soon to say for Mahinmi and Sanikidze. The only "bust" is Karaulov and it was the 58th pick.

of course Spurs did better than any team in drafting foreigners with Tony and Manu. that is where all the reputation comes from.
and if they would have worked out a signing of Scola it would be even better.
but this led to an overrating of the Spurs scouting, by the fans and the media. there still is no guarrantee that every pick turns out to be a find.

[Mr. Body]

Lee is also much cheaper than Scola and a far, far better rebounder, something we vitally need.

My point with Mahinmi in '05 is that no one was knocking on his door back then and may not have been this year or next. But it's understood - he's a decent prospect. I'm just not happy with taking long routes to try and find foreign players when there are gems making it through every year domestically.

I don't what you have with foreigners but Spurs have dome a great job with foreigner. Manu, Parker, Scola are great picks. Beno and Javtokas are good picks. It's too soon to say for Mahinmi and Sanikidze. The only "bust" is Karaulov and it was the 58th pick.

Manu and Parker made the reputation for the Spurs' international scouting. Stellar picks. Nothing since then has been nearly as stellar and, while they deserve their kudos, it seems we're letting them ride on long-ago successes. Udrih was a good pick that late in the draft (better than Vujacic), but hardly set the world on fire. And as for Scola, Mahinmi, Sanikidze, Javtokas, etc., how many of those are currently on the team? How many will ever be on the team? I think only one ever will be - Mahinmi - and that's by dint of his guaranteed contract more than anything else.

[Darkwaters]

Mr. Body,

Are you really advocating the Knicks' drafting abilities? Really? There is absolutely no reason for a Spurs fan to feel jealous of Isiah Thomas. The man is singlehandedly keeping the Knicks down with his foolish moves. The Eddy Curry deal? Give me a break! Renaldo Balkman in the first round? Mardy Collins? Isiah is a joke.

[Big P]

IMO we should keep our eyes on guys like Khrypa(Bulls) & Korolev(Clippers). Khrypa is not getting any playing time & while I think it is probably a long shot that we trade for him this season, maybe something could be worked out in the summer. Korolev on the other hand didn't have his rookie contract extended & will be a FA this summer. IMO he is the type of player that can be molded into what the Spurs need. He is 6'9, young(not even 20 yet), athletic & a very versatile player. If Scola is defintily not going to be playing for us anytime soon, then I think we should look at trading his rights & filler(ie. EWill) to try & get a young guy like Khrypa or Korolev. Hopefully the SF situation can be worked out sometime by next summer.

[Mr. Body]

Mr. Body,

Are you really advocating the Knicks' drafting abilities? Really? There is absolutely no reason for a Spurs fan to feel jealous of Isiah Thomas. The man is singlehandedly keeping the Knicks down with his foolish moves. The Eddy Curry deal? Give me a break! Renaldo Balkman in the first round? Mardy Collins? Isiah is a joke.

Separate Isiah as a GM from his ability to scout players for the draft. His draft record was already pretty great before he took over in New York - he's credited with Tracy McGrady (I believe), Damon Stoudamire, and Marcus Camby.

In New York in 2005 he drafted 3 players in the first round who are true studs for the points they were taken: Channing Frye, Nate Robinson, and David Lee. Each could already be a part-time or full-time starter in the league. I'll give Mardy Collins time, but Renaldo Balkman is the real deal. He's not much offensively yet, if he ever will be, but he's going to be a very nice hustle and energy player who can block, get steals, rebound, and bring the ball up the court. I would absolutely love to have him on our bench - watch him play sometimes. He'll be a difference maker.

The only mistake Isiah made last summer was sticking to his guns and taking his guy instead of Marcus Williams and then Balkman with the next pick. But he saw they had too many guards as it was and went for defensive glue guys. Might hurt a bit in the end, but we don't know what Collins will offer. I can't totally fault his reasoning, though I'd like him to have grabbed Williams and then gone for Balkman after. But Balkman looks real - he was right about him.

The hate on Isiah Thomas is tedious sometimes. He's made some questionable decisions, but he's trying to put a team together, and in some ways it's working. Curry is proving a lot of people wrong at the moment. If the Knicks don't make the playoffs (still possible) or they accidentally let Chicago get a top-3 pick, then it's a mess, but at best they gave up Tyrus Thomas and maybe a 10s (swap from 20s) pick for Eddie Curry, who is giving them wins this year. Not the best deal by any means, but not apocalyptic. Adding Jared Jeffries was a nice move that counteracts the bad move for Jerome James.

But Thomas does have some good talents, and one of them is drafting talent.

So, yes, he is better at drafting domestic talent than the Spurs are. By a country mile.

[Bruno]

this isn't a good comparison.

Mr. Body just says that Spurs badly need a player like Lee next year.
I've just said that I rather have Scola as backup PF than Lee next year.

and we know Spurs can not just go out and sign Scola.

They can't during the 05' summer, but they can during the 06' summer and they will likely to sign him next summer. They just need to give $9M/3 years.

this led to an overrating of the Spurs scouting, by the fans and the media.

Spurs have done a great job when you consider that they only have had some late first round pick and second round picks.

Lee is also much cheaper than Scola and a far, far better rebounder, something we vitally need.

Scola is a decent rebounder and is far, far, far better offensive player than Lee.
Spurs' rebounding will mainly improve by playing a good rebounder at SF and not by having having better rebounders at PF/C, especially when the only thing they can do well is rebounding.

And as for Scola, Mahinmi, Sanikidze, Javtokas, etc., how many of those are currently on the team? How many will ever be on the team? I think only one ever will be - Mahinmi - and that's by dint of his guaranteed contract more than anything else.

Mahinmi and Sanikidze are 20 years old : give him some time before judging him.

Javtokas, Scola, Karaulov are late second round pick.
Just look at who were drafted after them :

Javtokas : Alvin Jones (23 games, 1.1 rbds, 1.6 pts), Brian bracey (0 games)
Scola : Randy Holcomb (4 games, 0.3 rbds, 0.5 pts), Corsley Edwards ( 10 games, 2.5 rbds, 2.7 pts)
Karaulov : Blake Stepp ( 0 games), Rashad Wright (0 games)

Both Javtokas (even post-injury) and Scola are great picks even if they aren't with the team for the moment. They are light years better than the usual late second rounder.

Scola will likely be in nba in 07 or 08.
Javtokas will maybe be in nba in 2 years if he plays well next year with his greek team.

[Mr. Body]

Scola is a decent rebounder and is far, far, far better offensive player than Lee.
Spurs' rebounding will mainly improve by playing a good rebounder at SF and not by having having better rebounders at PF/C, especially when the only thing they can do well is rebounding.

By no means am I opposed to Luis Scola. I'd love him to be a Spur and don't really mean to compare him to Lee. I just hope we can find some resolution to his situation this summer to finally get some value for him.

I'm knocking the Spurs' drafting more than I should. They have done well drafting internationally, yet it's clear we haven't gotten anything out of it for several years now. Scola is an NBA player, but I doubt Javtokas ever is, and I doubt Sanikidze will be. He'll pay off down the line, perhaps.

I just wish they'd commit some of those resources to domestic scouting. There have been too many diamonds in the rough dropping into the second round in the '00s to not open up some eyes. I believe the pick we took Karaulov, in fact, we could have used on Jackie Butler, who went undrafted that year.

In any case, it's a huge summer in '07, one of the pivotal offseasons in Spurs history, IMO. Not the most, but up there.

[Darkwaters]

What do we think the chances are that Mahinmi joins the Spurs next season?

[Bruno]

What do we think the chances are that Mahinmi joins the Spurs next season?

I think that Mahinmi and Spurs haven't decided for the moment where Mahinmi will play next year. I just can give you some keys about his choice :

- Mahinmi wanted to have a big season in europe before signign with Spurs. This season isn't a big one so far for him.

- Mahinmi has signed a two years contract (this year and next year) with Pau but I don't know if there is a buyout to sing with Spurs at the end of the first year.

- Pau is not sure to be qualified for the euroleague next year. If Pau isn't qualified for the euroleague, Mahinmi situation will be quite complicated : he can stay with Pau but he will only play the french league whose level is quite weak, sign with another european team but he would to find against his place in a new roster with a new coach or he can sign with Spurs. If Pau isn't qualified for the Euroleague next year, Mahinmi chances to be a Spur next year are greater.

- Spurs desire to have Mahinmi with them. I'm not sure that Spurs want to sign Mahinmi for next year if he isn't ready because Pau is maybe better than the DLeague or Spurs' practice for Mahinmi. Pau's coach is well known by Spurs because he is an assistant coach for them during summer league and he has the same mentality than Pop (defense first + hard working). One of the Spurs physical trainer is in France during the whole year to work with Mahinmi and Pau (Spurs managed Mahinmi strengthen programm). Mahinmi is still in contact with Spurs (he called Presti weekly).

[Mr. Body]

What do we think the chances are that Mahinmi joins the Spurs next season?

I don't think likely, but it depends on what happens in the offseason. Right now we have 3 non-Duncan bigs under contract for next year - Elson, Oberto, Butler - not counting Horry.

If we bring a European-leaguer over, I'd say it'd be Scola. If we trade Scola, there's a distant chance Mahinmi comes, but only for development (the James White/Jackie Butler plan), and we have too many development slots taken at the moment.

I'd say one more year Mahinmi is out. At the end of '08 we have all the bigs expiring, so we can resign who we still like (maybe Elson? maybe Butler, too?), and have room to generate room for Ian. But hopefully we have a starting big by that point to play C or we're in trouble.

[mountainballer]

By no means am I opposed to Luis Scola. I'd love him to be a Spur and don't really mean to compare him to Lee. I just hope we can find some resolution to his situation this summer to finally get some value for him.

I guess noone is opposed to Scola
I absolutly wasn't happy with this offseason, when Spurs for the first time had the chance to get Scola in a realistic buy-out scenario, but were hesitant to finally bring him over.
I don't have a problem with the Elson signing and also not with the gamble on Butler, but NOT on the cost of NOT signing Scola to a reasonable contract.
I guess Spurs meanwhile regret this, because of the bad play of Horry and Bonner.
we could use Scola very very well this year as the first back-up of Tim. it would have cost 3 million/year. what a bargain considering Rob, Bonner, Butler and E.Will make together 12 million a year for a production Scola alone might have been able to give.
the Raptors pay 4 million to Garbajosa, a good player in Europe, but not as good as Scola and they are very very happy with what he delivers.
Spurs wasted a great opportunity and one year of Scola's prime and did a lot of damage to the relation to Scola, who now likely will never sign with the Spurs.
in summer word was that a back-up PF isn't a major need for the Spurs. that was right.
but it also showed that the usually great and sensible working FO made some major mistakes in judging the whole PF situation. (overrating what Horry has left in the tank, overrating what Bonner can deliver, underrating what Oberto is able to do etc.)

let's hope that next summer gives Spurs the chance to get back on the table with Scola. (I hope Manu and Oberto will help to propitiate Scola)

something else:

Radmanovic is labeled a bust in LA. he is rumored to be on the market.
what do you think about him?
I have to admit that I am confused how to finally see him as a player.
on the one hand he displays a lot, what the Spurs could well use in the current situation (long SF, quite athletic, versatile, plays both forward spots) on the other hand he is far from being exactly the player we would need. (defense, at iude)
he makes 5 million/year. that's quite some money, but not that much, if he would exploit his potential.
Lakers are rumored to be happy if they could just get rid of his contract.
would it be a very bad idea to try to trade E.Williams expiring contract (maybe it would take one or two seond rounder to sweeten the deal) for Radmanovic and gamble on the possibility that he might flourish on a verteran team with some good tutoring? he would not be the first player, who learns to play some defense with the Spurs and who learns to try hard to help the team first.

[Bruno]

Radmanovic is labeled a bust in LA. he is rumored to be on the market.
what do you think about him?

Radmanovic has a hand injury, that's why he struggles.
He will have a surgery next offseason to correct his injury.

[RS189]

You guys need AK47! or Francisco Garcia

[timvp]

Why do you insist on lumping Barry and Finley together as if they are similar players?

They are not...unlike Finley, Barry has value even when his shooting sucks(or when he doesn't shoot enough).


Assists count....

In today's NBA, assists are overrated. It sounds sacrilegious to say, but it's true.

Today's NBA is about taking your man off the dribble and scoring at the rim. Dallas was last in the entire NBA in assists last year. Miami was in the bottom half as well.

Nowadays, a guy who can slash to the rim and finish is much more valuable than a guy who will slash to the basket with the sole purpose of creating shots.

Passing used to be a good attribute from a perimeter player back when there were no zone defenses and players were allowed to handcheck. Now, with the rules how they are setup, a player like Jerry Freakin' Stackhouse is more valuable than Brent Barry.

That last statement would have been laughable a couple seasons ago, but it's now true. You just can't guard slashers. You can guard a guy like Barry who is either shooting a stand still jumper or making a pass to another guy who is waiting to take a stand still jumper.

So yes, you can lump Barry and Finley in today's league.

Additionally....Barry has never sucked as bad as Finley has this season, as a Spur.

I would say Barry sucked last year in the playoffs, but that'd be too kind.

Care to post the +/- stats from last year's playoffs?

Didn't think so.

[Darkwaters]

Did you guys see the clinic that Alando Tucker put on tonight against Pitt? He looked really good out there. He showed some nice scoring ability and plays solid D. Hes projected right now in the second round. While mock drafts don't usually mean anything until post-NCAA tournament, it is not out of the realm of thought that he might be available in the second for the Spurs.

Would it make sense for the Spurs to grab him next draft? The Spurs are loaded with 2 guards at the moment and have a young 3 in James White already. Personally I like the idea of him as a 2, but with Ginobili, Barry and Finley in the way that makes no sense at the moment in terms of playing time. Although, the Spurs will need to address the need of another shooting guard soon unless they think Sanikidize is at all close and White can step in next season. Fact is, Barry and Finley are on their way out and Ginobili is oft injured (and nearing 30 as well).

Thoughts?