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  1. #126
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    some fans just want a change in the philosophy.

  2. #127
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    The nba draft is a gamble wether you draft a solid college senior or a HS players or a foreigners.
    Drafting with a late first or a second round pick a solid senior isn't a smarter move than drafting a foreigner. For every good senior college drafted, you can find busts too.
    Saying that Spurs would have been better by drafting college seniors over foreigners is too simple and untrue.
    The only thing you can say about college seniors is that they are smaller gamble than young players : on the one hand they can help a team faster and have more chances to be decent players than younger players, on the other hand their upside is lower and they have less chances to be great players.

  3. #128
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    what you can say is that the Spurs domestic scouting has been weak over the past few seasons AND there is even proof of that.

    The Spurs themselves went outside the family to hire and create a new position of Director of College Player Personnel.

    It's obvious they thought there's a need to improve there and that hiring of an experienced outside scout and former coach proves it. Otherwise if the Spurs were thrilled with what they were doing and getting done they wouldn't have spent that money, they just would have just kept Presti and whichever other guys he knew at college and had them keep on keepin on.

  4. #129
    Vegas Strong Darkwaters's Avatar
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    How large of a contract will it take to bring Scola over next season? I'm not sure how large his buyout is now...but with the team only able to contribute 500k it might get messy.

    What will Scola demand?

  5. #130
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    We keep rehashing the entire argument, but what the . The Spurs' strategy has been to overlook domestic players in favor of international players. Whether they thought the furriners were smarter ball players, were overall cheaper, or could be kept overseas to develop, that was the deal. There were American players they said (after the fact, each draft) they were interested in, by all appearances they have had a barely functioning college scouting program and their division of interest was something like 90%/10% in favor of Europe. Pop has been on record as saying he does not watch college games. That's insane.
    Last edited by Mr. Body; 03-05-2007 at 03:01 PM.

  6. #131
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I'm so sick of Spurs fans dropping back and second guessing this front office's picks. You can stop ing about players like Josh Howard and the like, because you aren't going to make a great player out of every draft pick you have. In fact, if you make a good player out of half of your picks, you're doing a damn good job and considering the Spurs have gotten 2 of their big three with less than stellar picks they're doing quite well. Manu is probably the 2nd best 2nd round pick OF ALL TIME and Tony was damn near a 2nd round pick himself.

    They haven't made bad picks in the 1st round with the exception of Beno. And you can argue that Beno has all the talent in the world to be a 1st round pick, but it was his intangibles that stop him from working out. They didn't pass on Howard for a Euro, they passed on him for Jason Kidd so it would be really nice if people would stop revising history and stick to what actually happened.

    The one problem I have - and it feels like this has to be stated over and over and over and over again on this board - is that the Spurs have traded away their 1st round picks that could have been effective in order to save money. But lets be honest - had they drafted Josh Howard - he wasn't guaranteed to succeed here and where was the money going to come from to pay everyone? The Spurs are already at the Luxury Tax with Tony and Manu and if Howard had blown up here who would they keep?

    If you had to pick 3 out of the 4 of Duncan, Manu, Tony, and Howard, I know who I exclude and he's the guy that is in Dallas right now. I sure as would rather have Manu and Duncan. And while he may be a toss up with Parker - I think Tony impacts the game far more than Howard does.

    People can about all they want out of context, but when you compare this front office to the rest of the league, you find that they may not have drafted perfectly but overall the team management of the Spurs is very efficient and good at what they do.
    Amen.

  7. #132
    Bruce Almighty Bruno's Avatar
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    How large of a contract will it take to bring Scola over next season? I'm not sure how large his buyout is now...but with the team only able to contribute 500k it might get messy.

    What will Scola demand?
    Last year Ludden has said that Scola wanted $9-10M over 3 years with a $3.5M buyout : it makes $6-7M over 3 years for him.

  8. #133
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    How large of a contract will it take to bring Scola over next season? I'm not sure how large his buyout is now...but with the team only able to contribute 500k it might get messy.

    What will Scola demand?
    according to the express news, he demanded last summer a 3 year contract worth 9-10 million. The buyout is Scola's responsibility, so if that's what he was asking for than he must have had the buyout under reasonable control.

  9. #134
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    Do the spurs waste picks?

    Here is a brieve history of the #28 picks for the last 17 years

    Maurice Ager DNP
    Mahinmi DNP
    Beno 5.4/1.1/1.8 13.2 min
    Barbosa 11/2.2/2.8 24.4
    Dan au 6.1/1.4/2.6 15.8
    TP 15.5/3.1/5.4 33.1
    Leon Smith 2.2/2.2/0.2 6.9
    Corey Benjamin 5.5/1.7/0.9 14.3
    Keith Booth 2.9/2.2/0.9 10.0
    Travis Knight 3.4/3.1/0.6 12.3
    Greg Ostertag 4.6/5.5/0.6 19.5
    Deon Thomas DNP
    Lucious Harris 7.2/2.3/1.4 19.6
    Marlon Maxey 4.9/3.7/0.2 11.7
    Kevin Lynch 3.3/1.3/1.1 12.0
    Les Jepsen 1.0/1.3/0 3.7
    Sherman Douglas 11.0/2.2/5.9 27.6

    Only 3 player with good career stats TP/Barbosa/Douglas : 1 spurs - 2 international players
    If I exclude the DNP players, the average #28 pick numbers are:

    6PPG/2.3RPG/1.7APG in 16minutes

    IMO we should stop crying about Mahinmi because he isn't DRob.
    If you wan't you can do the same for later picks.

  10. #135
    The Great Unknown yavozerb's Avatar
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    Good find math..

  11. #136
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Ostertag and Harris were good picks there, too.

  12. #137
    Vegas Strong Darkwaters's Avatar
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    Last year Ludden has said that Scola wanted $9-10M over 3 years with a $3.5M buyout : it makes $6-7M over 3 years for him.
    Frankly, Scola is probably an absolute bargain then. While he might take a year to adjust his potential to be effective is considerably greater than a guy like Ely. Horry needs to retire and Butler and/or Oberto need to be traded. If Butler shows promise then trade Oberto, if Butler tanks in summer league, trade him. The team would then have room to sign Scola and maybe that "starting caliber center". Of course, if Ely shows promise then trade Oberto AND Butler and let Horry retire. Resign Bonner.

    Duncan/Scola/Bonner
    Starting C/Elson/Ely OR Butler OR Oberto

    As far as the draft, I think the Spurs try and move up in the draft by trading either Butler, Oberto, or Beno and get Rudy Fernandez. Then with Milwaukee's pick take an American PG (Mustafa Shakur, maybe?). Resign Jacque Vaughn at the minimum and play the better player as your backup. WIth the latter two picks I think a Euro makes sense. Jonas Maciulus makes sense late in the draft.

  13. #138
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Ostertag and Harris were good picks there, too.
    Five out of seventeen.

  14. #139
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Most of those were real stretches. Leon Smith? Only Dallas was going to take a first round flier on him.

    The point is rather not to go over niggling details, it is to point out how the Spurs' policy of overlooking domestic talent hurt them in the long run. Projecting ahead: will they throw away their first round pick again this year? The list should not be proof that they should, certainly not in this draft.

  15. #140
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    I don't mean they should throw away their pick. Just that with late pick you can't find a Arenas or Parker every year.

  16. #141
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Most of those were real stretches.
    Exactly.

  17. #142
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Fail to see your point. Who's advocating the Spurs throw away the pick? Nobody.

  18. #143
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Fail to see your point.
    Exactly.

  19. #144
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    Jesus Christ, man, what the are you arguing? This is ing pointless.

  20. #145
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Point is folks expect way too much from low first rounders.

    Always have.

    This draft will be no different.

  21. #146
    Veteran temujin's Avatar
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    The way Scola is playing right now, he would be another Manu.
    He would only have to adjust to travel and food.

    20 solid minutes, with double digits in points.
    And Duncan could sit for 20 minutes, prolonging his career untill he's 40.

    Spurs were unlucky with Javtokas.

    The critics should look at the Knicks.

  22. #147
    Banned ArgSpursFan's Avatar
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    draft picks are just draft picks,its a lottery,like real life,You never know how a player is gonna react when he goes from college student to new rich person in town.That´s why I would reather go for a +24 yrs old more mature 2nd.rounder tham a younger one(talking just about second rounders.).

  23. #148
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    As far as the draft, I think the Spurs try and move up in the draft by trading either Butler, Oberto, or Beno and get Rudy Fernandez. Then with Milwaukee's pick take an American PG (Mustafa Shakur, maybe?). Resign Jacque Vaughn at the minimum and play the better player as your backup. WIth the latter two picks I think a Euro makes sense. Jonas Maciulus makes sense late in the draft.
    Nick Fazekas is projected to be available around our 1st round pick. If he is available, we should take him... Mobile, rebounds, shooter...
    Currently 2nd in PER in college (1st playing significant minutes), 3ed in Efficiency, 10th in pts/40 (2nd if adjusted for team pace), 15.4 rbds/40 min (4th overall), 58.8 FG%, 47.2 3FG% (college 3). He's good, don't know why people think he will fall so far.

  24. #149
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    You'd think solid scouting and talented scouts would cut down on the risk factor massively for draft picks. Not a perfect science, but it's far from an utter crap shoot.

  25. #150
    If you can't slam with the best then jam with the rest sabar's Avatar
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    Wow people expect way too much from late picks. Other than Josh Howard, the FO has done rather well with what they have. It doesn't matter if we draft domestic -- most of the time late pick scrubs take up roster space, take a rookie salary, and get waived 1-2 months into the season.

    Look at earlier NBA drafts and note how many of these guys just get waived and don't even qualify as a 3rd string guy:

    2004 NBA Draft

    20 Jameer Nelson (PG) Denver Nuggets (traded to Orlando for future 1st round pick)
    21 Pavel Podkolzine (C) Utah Jazz (from Houston, traded to Dallas for future 1st round pick)
    22 Viktor Khryapa (SF) New Jersey Nets (traded to Portland for Eddie Gill and cash)
    23 Sergei Monia (SG) Portland Trail Blazers (from Memphis)
    24 Delonte West (PG) Boston Celtics (from Dallas Mavericks)
    25 Tony Allen (SG) Boston Celtics (from Detroit Pistons)
    26 Kevin Martin (SG) Sacramento Kings
    27 Sasha Vujačić (PG) Los Angeles Lakers
    28 Beno Udrih (PG) San Antonio Spurs
    29 David Harrison (C) Indiana Pacers
    30 Anderson Varejão (PF) Orlando Magic (traded to Cleveland Cavaliers)
    31 Jackson Vroman (C) Chicago Bulls (traded to Phoenix Suns)
    32 Peter John Ramos (C) Washington Wizards
    33 Lionel Chalmers (PG) Los Angeles Clippers (from Charlotte Bobcats)
    34 Donta Smith (SF) Atlanta Hawks
    35 Andre Emmett (F/G) Seattle SuperSonics (from L.A. Clippers, traded to Memphis)
    36 Antonio Burks (PG) Orlando Magic (from Phoenix, traded to Memphis)
    37 Royal Ivey (PG) Atlanta Hawks (from Philadelphia 76ers)
    38 Chris Duhon (PG) Chicago Bulls (from Toronto Raptors)
    39 Albert Miralles (PF) Toronto Raptors (from Cleveland Cavaliers)
    40 Justin Reed (SF) Boston Celtics
    41 David Young (G) Seattle SuperSonics
    42 Viktor Sanikidze (SF) Atlanta Hawks (from Golden State through Orlando)
    43 Trevor Ariza (SF) New York Knicks
    44 Tim Pickett (SG) New Orleans Hornets
    45 Bernard Robinson (SF) Charlotte Bobcats (from Milwaukee Bucks)
    46 Ha Seung-Jin (C) Portland Trail Blazers
    47 Pape Sow (PF) Miami Heat
    48 Ricky Minard (SG) Sacramento Kings (from Utah Jazz)
    49 Sergei Lishouk (PF) Memphis Grizzlies (from Denver through Orlando)
    50 Vasileios Spanoulis (PG) Dallas Mavericks (from Houston through Denver)

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