From the Cavs Perspective

[DarrinS]

Great analysis.


Spurs in 5.

[SAGambler]

Cavs will be fine, Lebron lightens the load a ton on offense and it allows the other guys on the court to concentrate on defense. Also, I think that while SA has ran this defense for longer, CLE makes up for that with toughness and scrapiness, and that cannot be underestimated.

I like Cleveland's chances because they are a dominant defensive squad, they've got Lebron James to lead the way, and Mike Brown was taught under GP in the SA system so he already knows exactly what the Spurs are going to try to do and when they are going to try it. Sound familiar? That's because Don Nelson benefited from this exact situation earlier in the playoffs when he used that information he had learned and used it to knock off the much more talented #1-seed Dallas Mavericks.

, the entire world knows the offensive plan of the Cavs.....Give the ball to Bron....That's the entire offensive scheme.

As for Nellie....He knew how to exploit Dirks weaknesses.......

What weakness does Duncan have that you can exploit?

Other than at times being a poor FT shooter, Duncans game is solid throughout. And there are times, especially in playoff games that Duncan hits a very high percentage of those FTs.

So I guess you could early on try hack a Duncan, but then again we could also try hack a King......He is a bit shaky at the line too. Especially if he misses a couple of early ones.

[Trainwreck2100]

Please God let them put in Scott Pollard.

[FromWayDowntown]

what about the story of Mike Brown having been taught by GP and the SA system? I think this is pretty major, the last couple times this has happened in organized sports it ended very badly for the team whose opposing coach came from their own system. Just look at Don Nelson using his knowledge of the Dallas system to beat the much more talented Mavericks team as an eight-seed!

I'd find that fact more persuasive if there weren't rampant reports that Brown was calling Pop throughout the Detroit series to get ideas about between-game adjustments. Is Brown hoping that he can call Pop between games of the Finals for some advice, too?

[DarrinS]

I'd find that fact more persuasive if there weren't rampant reports that Brown was calling Pop throughout the Detroit series to get ideas about between-game adjustments. Is Brown hoping that he can call Pop between games of the Finals for some advice, too?

Based on what I saw in the ECF, I'm not too worried about coach Brown. Sometimes a REALLY good player can overcome the decisions of a bad coach.

[L.I.T]

That is what Scott Pollard is for, cheap hard fouls that don't cost our starters anything.

Honest answer to your question? Detroit was posting up all series long with multiple people, so I'm not sure if you were watching but it was pretty apparent. Rasheed, Tayshaun, Webber, McDyess, etc. Obviously, none of these guys are the same kind of post threat that Duncan is. However, Duncan is only guy whereas Detroit attacked with depth. Definite contrast of styles in that respect. Hope that answers your question.

Except being on the floor. If Scot Pollard is playing, that means Ilgauskas, Gooden or Varejao is in some sort of foul trouble. Which means: 1) Duncan is dominating in the post, or 2) the Spurs have decided to attack the basket at will.

In either scenario the Spurs are drawing fouls.

Next, the Spurs funnel their offense through the post, if Duncan is posting at will and having his way that probably means the Spurs offense is doing well. As many have pointed out, the Spurs offense is one of the most efficient in the league.

Personally, I'd take All-Star, Hall-of-fame quality over players who are highly uncomfortable in the post and hardly a threat any day.

[L.I.T]

Based on what I saw in the ECF, I'm not too worried about coach Brown. Sometimes a REALLY good player can overcome the decisions of a bad coach.

You mean like Nash?

[BWJACKETS]

, the entire world knows the offensive plan of the Cavs.....Give the ball to Bron....That's the entire offensive scheme.

As for Nellie....He knew how to exploit Dirks weaknesses.......

What weakness does Duncan have that you can exploit?

Other than at times being a poor FT shooter, Duncans game is solid throughout. And there are times, especially in playoff games that Duncan hits a very high percentage of those FTs.

So I guess you could early on try hack a Duncan, but then again we could also try hack a King......He is a bit shaky at the line too. Especially if he misses a couple of early ones.

You said it right there, if you put Duncan at the line there is a good chance he will miss one or both free throws. I am much more confident in Lebron at the line than Duncan (Duncan may have been too, I couldn't tell you seeing as how I haven't watched the Spurs since the Phoenix series, seeing as how they are so boring!), Lebron has been on with his ft's during the playoffs. Duncan will get frustrated if and when he is unable to score from the field. With Lebron, you aren't going to stop him so one way or the other he is going to get his points.

[ang_mysteryo]

You said it right there, if you put Duncan at the line there is a good chance he will miss one or both free throws. I am much more confident in Lebron at the line than Duncan (Duncan may have been too, I couldn't tell you seeing as how I haven't watched the Spurs since the Phoenix series, seeing as how they are so boring!), Lebron has been on with his ft's during the playoffs. Duncan will get frustrated if and when he is unable to score from the field. With Lebron, you aren't going to stop him so one way or the other he is going to get his points.

both lebron and duncan can create problems by putting their opponents on foul trouble.....

free throw will be a factor in this series....

but i don't expect any hack attack strategies here....

[Man In Black]

I like Cleveland's chances because they are a dominant defensive squad, they've got Lebron James to lead the way

Umm..How many All-NBA D teams has LeBron been on again? ZERO

That is what Scott Pollard is for, cheap hard fouls that don't cost our starters anything.

What you fail to realize is that if Pollard is out there, then you guys are literally playing 4 against 5 and while he has 6 fouls to give, he also doesn't give you anything else other than the remote possibility of getting an offensive rebound.

However, one thing that nobody has mentioned- what about the story of Mike Brown having been taught by GP and the SA system? I think this is pretty major, the last couple times this has happened in organized sports it ended very badly for the team whose opposing coach came from their own system.

Technically for defense, both Pop and Brown have used Hank Egan for their D principles. But the difference here is that San Antonio has TWO ALL-NBA 1st Team Defenders while Cleveland has none.
So you can say scrappy and all, but remember San Antonio has been doing it better and longer and experience counts. You'll see soon enough.

[FromWayDowntown]

You said it right there, if you put Duncan at the line there is a good chance he will miss one or both free throws. I am much more confident in Lebron at the line than Duncan, Lebron has been on with his ft's during the playoffs. Duncan will get frustrated if and when he is unable to score from the field. With Lebron, you aren't going to stop him so one way or the other he is going to get his points.

Let's see: since 2001, Tim Duncan has played in 20 playoff series against a wide array of opponents presenting just about every conceivable defensive approach. In that time, he's averaged at least 20 ppg in 18 of the 20 series. In the 2 in which he didn't get 20 ppg, he had a first round series against Phoenix where he shot 52% from the field and averaged 5.2 apg while scoring 18.7 ppg; in the other, in the First Round against Sacramento last year, he averaged 18.3 ppg while hitting at a 61% clip from the floor while playing only 33 mpg.

For the record, he's averaged at least 24 ppg in 11 of those 20 series.

He's shot over .500 from the field in 11 of those series, including the last two series this year, in which he's shot better than 57% from the floor and both series in 2006 (61% and 56%). He's had exactly 1 series in the last 20 in which he shot less than 45% from the floor -- the 2005 Finals. Of course, he played that series on a sprained ankle and had to deal with Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace. And, oh by the way, Duncan's team still managed to win that series.

It might be that Cleveland can do an unprecedented job of controlling Tim Duncan in the 2007 Finals -- but it would be just that: unprecedented.

[easjer]

Weren't both of Tim's ankles sprained in the 2005 finals? I thought the one had not fully healed yet, and the other was injured in the 6th game of the WCSF.

[ang_mysteryo]

Umm..How many All-NBA D teams has LeBron been on again? ZERO

What you fail to realize is that if Pollard is out there, then you guys are literally playing 4 against 5 and while he has 6 fouls to give, he also doesn't give you anything else other than the remote possibility of getting an offensive rebound.


Technically for defense, both Pop and Brown have used Hank Egan for their D principles. But the difference here is that San Antonio has TWO ALL-NBA 1st Team Defenders while Cleveland has none.
So you can say scrappy and all, but remember San Antonio has been doing it better and longer and experience counts. You'll see soon enough.

you've got a point there...but effective defense is a collective effort...

bowen is not effective w/o help defense as a case...

the cavs don't look impressive individually, but as a team defense, they can give you a headache...

[ancestron]

I am going to go against the grain here a bit and say that the Cavs will not know what hit them. I respect them, their fans, and their city, and LeBron James is a great player surrounded by a good supporing cast, but I honestly think they have NO IDEA what they are in for going into the Finals against the Spurs.

[FromWayDowntown]

It's too bad for us Spurs fans that the Spurs don't have any real concept of team defense . . . .

[BWJACKETS]

I am going to go against the grain here a bit and say that the Cavs will not know what hit them. I respect them, their fans, and their city, and LeBron James is a great player surrounded by a good supporing cast, but I honestly think they have NO IDEA what they are in for going into the Finals against the Spurs.

I think I know what they are in for...another team that is overconfident and in for a fall. Mike Brown knows everything that Spurs will try to do because he knows their entire playbook in and out, he will make this an ugly series and Lebron will take over from there. Cavs in 5, nobody will see it coming but the Cavs have all the tools to win a championship right now and Lebron will continue to step his game up and assert himself as the best player in the league. You can do that when you are 22 years old and already the most talented in the league by far.

[duncan228]

I think I know what they are in for...another team that is overconfident and in for a fall. Mike Brown knows everything that Spurs will try to do because he knows their entire playbook in and out, he will make this an ugly series and Lebron will take over from there. Cavs in 5, nobody will see it coming but the Cavs have all the tools to win a championship right now and Lebron will continue to step his game up and assert himself as the best player in the league. You can do that when you are 22 years old and already the most talented in the league by far.

You obviously have never watched the Spurs.
One thing they never are is over confidant.
They've been here before, they know what it is and what it takes to win.

As far as coaches go, it's the teacher vs. the student. I'll take the experience of the teacher every time.

Do yourself (and us) a favor. Go back and read the posts from the Mavs/Nuggets/Suns/Jazz fans. It doesn't matter which. See who knows what's coming.

[101A]

Let's see: since 2001, Tim Duncan has played in 20 playoff series against a wide array of opponents presenting just about every conceivable defensive approach. In that time, he's averaged at least 20 ppg in 18 of the 20 series. In the 2 in which he didn't get 20 ppg, he had a first round series against Phoenix where he shot 52% from the field and averaged 5.2 apg while scoring 18.7 ppg; in the other, in the First Round against Sacramento last year, he averaged 18.3 ppg while hitting at a 61% clip from the floor while playing only 33 mpg.

For the record, he's averaged at least 24 ppg in 11 of those 20 series.

He's shot over .500 from the field in 11 of those series, including the last two series this year, in which he's shot better than 57% from the floor and both series in 2006 (61% and 56%). He's had exactly 1 series in the last 20 in which he shot less than 45% from the floor -- the 2005 Finals. Of course, he played that series on a sprained ankle and had to deal with Ben Wallace and Rasheed Wallace. And, oh by the way, Duncan's team still managed to win that series.

It might be that Cleveland can do an unprecedented job of controlling Tim Duncan in the 2007 Finals -- but it would be just that: unprecedented.

Yeah, but Scott Pollard has SIX fouls!

[ang_mysteryo]

I think I know what they are in for...another team that is overconfident and in for a fall. Mike Brown knows everything that Spurs will try to do because he knows their entire playbook in and out, he will make this an ugly series and Lebron will take over from there. Cavs in 5, nobody will see it coming but the Cavs have all the tools to win a championship right now and Lebron will continue to step his game up and assert himself as the best player in the league. You can do that when you are 22 years old and already the most talented in the league by far.

actually, only the fans are overconfident here...

GP is too damn smart not to take the cavs lightly....

he is dealing w/ a symbiote of the spurs but w/ a deadly sting....

it's just a matter of how he handles the threat....

[ambchang]

You said it right there, if you put Duncan at the line there is a good chance he will miss one or both free throws. I am much more confident in Lebron at the line than Duncan (Duncan may have been too, I couldn't tell you seeing as how I haven't watched the Spurs since the Phoenix series, seeing as how they are so boring!), Lebron has been on with his ft's during the playoffs. Duncan will get frustrated if and when he is unable to score from the field. With Lebron, you aren't going to stop him so one way or the other he is going to get his points.

I got to say that this thread is amusing on so many fronts, and I am just quoting this post because it happens to be the last one in a long string of posts that provides unbelievably bad logic with no facts to back up.

The idea of Hack-a-whoever has been overrated for long. Can anybody recall a game where the hack strategy works? If a very bad FT shooter, say one who shoots about 60% at the line, is fouled, and gets a chance to shoot two, the expected yield out of that trip is 1.2 points. Compared to say, a player who shoots a high percentage from the field, say again, 60%, the expected yield is exactly the same. Keep in mind that I am using two VERY extreme examples, in most cases, you are talking about a player like Duncan who shoots in the mid 60s on FT, vs. a guy like Duncan, who shoots in the low 50s from the field. But for argument’s sake, let’s say both are at 60%. The fouling team puts your team over the limit early on in the game, which means that you run the chance fouling a player who shoots a high % from the line later in the quarter, you put your players in foul trouble, AND you give the opposition 1.2 points per possession without having to expend any energy. This is purely poor coaching, and should only be used as a last resort to stop the clock and pray for a miracle.

Secondly, why would you be more confident in Lebron at he line than Duncan? Is there anything you can use to back that up? Lebron shoots 69.8% from the line, while Duncan shoots 63.7%, that is a 6 pt difference for every 100 FTs shot, that means approximately a difference of 0.6 pts per game based on missed FTs.

Third, Duncan will be frustrated if he can’t score from the field, and yet Lebron will score no matter what? I mean, how can anybody argue with this brilliant analysis? What the kind of logic is this? For the record, Duncan has been the more consistent scorer than James.
He had a standard deviation of 5.8 vs. a 19.99 scoring average for a ratio of 3.45 (larger the number, more consistent the scorer) in the regular season, and a 5.36 standard variation on 23.2 ppg in the playoffs for a ratio of 4.33.
While James was 7.25 and 27.33 for a ratio of 3.77 in the regular season, and 8.8 and 25.8 for the ratio of 2.93 in the playoffs. If anything, this shows that Duncan is rarely flustered by defensive schemes, especially in the playoffs.

Then this incessant talk about Lebron being the best player in the NBA, so on and so forth, so why did he not get into the All-NBA 1st team, or any All-defensive teams? Where is he dominant at?

Finally, all this talk about Cavs being a dominant defensive team, how did you figure the Spurs won 3 championships since 99?

[easjer]

Finally, all this talk about Cavs being a dominant defensive team, how did you figure the Spurs won 3 championships since 99?

This kid clearly didn't watch the 2005 Finals, since this is the same kid that told us the Cavs would show us what championship level defense looked like.




I'll give him that he's passionate about his team, and I totally understand and support that, but he clearly doesn't watch any basketball outside his team or have any sense of history here to make the claims he's making. If he'd just own up to that instead of trying get a bunch of Spurs fans to believe that we are mistaken in our faith in our team (by a very illogical and unsupported set of beliefs), then I'd respect him a lot more.

[Thunder Dan]

I'm a Cleveland fan and a Buckeyes fan, I have a little advice for Spurs fans: Don't get too hyped about your team winning it all so easily. The reason I say this is becuase the let down is horrible (see Buckeye fans in January when we thought we couldn't be stopped). With that said, I think the Spurs will win. Like alot of reasonable Cavs fans, we are just happy to see them in the Finals for the first time ever, if they win, they win; but our expectations are high for the future not just the present.

[easjer]

I'm a Cleveland fan and a Buckeyes fan, I have a little advice for Spurs fans: Don't get too hyped about your team winning it all so easily. The reason I say this is becuase the let down is horrible (see Buckeye fans in January when we thought we couldn't be stopped). With that said, I think the Spurs will win. Like alot of reasonable Cavs fans, we are just happy to see them in the Finals for the first time ever, if they win, they win; but our expectations are high for the future not just the present.

That's terrific. You should have high hopes. You are a couple of players away from a really good team.

And if the ship goes down (though BeerisGood! made a great argument about precisely what would have to happen to cause that perfect storm), at least we've got games to adjust to it. It's that one-game elimination/loss that hurts more.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm a Cleveland fan and a Buckeyes fan, I have a little advice for Spurs fans: Don't get too hyped about your team winning it all so easily. The reason I say this is becuase the let down is horrible (see Buckeye fans in January when we thought we couldn't be stopped). With that said, I think the Spurs will win. Like alot of reasonable Cavs fans, we are just happy to see them in the Finals for the first time ever, if they win, they win; but our expectations are high for the future not just the present.

That might make sense if we hadnt won 3 out of 3 already.

Its akin to telling a Bulls fan in 1996 or a Cowboys fan in 1995 to not get your hopes up too high.

Sorry but Texas doesnt have the Ohio curse. Weve gotten at least 9 championships out of Texas in the last 15 years.

[Soul_Patch]

IS BWJACKETS the reincarnation of SpursDynasty?