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  1. #151
    Veteran hater's Avatar
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    How about constantly being picked last in pickup basketball? Happens to me all the time.
    most likely it's because you suck

  2. #152
    Ray Lewis Killed A Guy monosylab1k's Avatar
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    most likely it's because you suck
    because people i've never played basketball with would know that, right?

  3. #153
    Senior Member conqueso's Avatar
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    You're thinking of ins utional racism, not systemic racism.

    Ins utional racism is state-endorsed. Systemic racism is cultural. It is the most inscrutable kind, because it does not require anybody consciously to hate anybody else, in actions or at udes, i.e. it doesn't require bigotry to sustain itself.

    And the term "colored" can be racist without being bigoted, because of its historical connotations.

    The trouble with exploring systemic racism is that term "racist" usually represents a direct attack on somebody's character, but systemic racism isn't like that. It's a general social problem.
    You're right, I confused the two. I don't think systemic racism is by definition majority-against-minority, if for no other reason than that it assumes that the majority race will have the largest cultural impact on the overall social system. Furthermore, minority black culture can be systemically racist as well; think about tight-knit black communities which foster the same animus towards whites as tight-knit white communities foster against blacks. Both are systemic in that both have an grand effect on the system as a whole which become a subconscious pathology.

  4. #154
    Veteran WalterBenitez's Avatar
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    hmmmm how many asterisks do Suns have? WTF ... keep fishing your idiots.

  5. #155
    Appoggiatura ancestron's Avatar
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    To all Suns fans:

    It's over!!! You lost. Get over it!!!


    Seriously, if I can get over .4, than you guys could get over this.
    Don't forget Manu's foul on Nowitzki in Game 7 of the 06 semis that let the Mavs tie it up after the Spurs had erased a 20 point deficit and took a 3 point lead with 30 seconds left. That's right up there with .4 in my book...

  6. #156
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    because people i've never played basketball with would know that, right?
    then you must not look as athletic as the other choices.

    IMO in a basketball court there is little racism. when you're good, ppl will give you props no matter what race you are.

  7. #157
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    You're right, I confused the two. I don't think systemic racism is by definition majority-against-minority, if for no other reason than that it assumes that the majority race will have the largest cultural impact on the overall social system. Furthermore, minority black culture can be systemically racist as well; think about tight-knit black communities which foster the same animus towards whites as tight-knit white communities foster against blacks. Both are systemic in that both have an grand effect on the system as a whole which become a subconscious pathology.
    You're right that systemic racism is not necessarily by the majority; that's why I said "dominant" race.

    You also are correct about the existence of systemic racism within individual communities that can flip the roles found within the larger society. I don't know that I would characterize the dynamic as "animus," however.

  8. #158
    Ballin' OldDirtMcGirt's Avatar
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    You're right, I confused the two. I don't think systemic racism is by definition majority-against-minority, if for no other reason than that it assumes that the majority race will have the largest cultural impact on the overall social system. Furthermore, minority black culture can be systemically racist as well; think about tight-knit black communities which foster the same animus towards whites as tight-knit white communities foster against blacks. Both are systemic in that both have an grand effect on the system as a whole which become a subconscious pathology.
    Except those black communities are usually doing it in retribution towards the racist policies of whites. It's a vicious cycle. The ones most likely to be bigoted towards others (the young and poor) are the ones who get pulled over, followed in stores, have people cross to the other side of the street, etc. However, these people have much less influence in society than say police officers (not saying that all officers are racist of course), judges, employers, etc. That's where true systemic racism exists, and that's where it hurts the most.

    Also, on an earlier point you made about colleges, I think that it's perfectly acceptable to look at an applicant's race during the selection process. The whole point of a university is to foster a broad range of debate and intellectual discussion with people of different backgrounds. Don't forget that colleges also weight the applications of religious minorities and rural students for the very same goal.

  9. #159
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    I don't care what color you are, just learn English, damn it.

  10. #160
    Believe. zrinkill's Avatar
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    Except those black communities are usually doing it in retribution towards the racist policies of whites.

    This is bull ..... blacks and whites are equally racist.

  11. #161
    Ray Lewis Killed A Guy monosylab1k's Avatar
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    then you must not look as athletic as the other choices.

    IMO in a basketball court there is little racism.
    and that's my whole point. sometimes people perceive racism when there isn't any, just because they want that excuse. If the only white guy is picked last, he could perceive that as racist. then again, he might be fat and out of shape, and that's why he's picked last. (and i've seen firsthand some racist bull on the basketball court, my brother is 6'2 and an extremely good basketball player, but if he's playing with people who don't know him, he's generally among the last guys picked and they make an effort to never give him the ball until he manages to grab a rebound and take it coast to coast by himself to "prove" himself to them).

    if someone sees people locking their door, they might perceive that as racist. then again, maybe the fact that they saw ANYBODY walk by reminded them to simply lock their door, and nothing more. lots of these little "racist" acts against black people are nothing more than perceived injustices that have little to no real foundation to it.

  12. #162
    Ballin' OldDirtMcGirt's Avatar
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    This is bull ..... blacks and whites are equally racist.
    No they aren't. Systemic racism has a much greater effect on blacks. While there might be certain people who are racist towards white people, rarely are those in power racist towards whites. This country has definitely made strides in the department of racial equality, but we aren't even close to having everybody be equal.

  13. #163
    Believe. zrinkill's Avatar
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    No they aren't. Systemic racism has a much greater effect on blacks. While there might be certain people who are racist towards white people, rarely are those in power racist towards whites. This country has definitely made strides in the department of racial equality, but we aren't even close to having everybody be equal.

    I am not talking about government policies Girt ..... I am talking about how black and white people treat each other ...... They are equally racist toward one another. A black man has just as good a chance to not like white people as a white man has of not likeing black people.

    I have felt it from both sides .... and until people realize that they are both to blame it will continue.

  14. #164
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    No they aren't. Systemic racism has a much greater effect on blacks. While there might be certain people who are racist towards white people, rarely are those in power racist towards whites. This country has definitely made strides in the department of racial equality, but we aren't even close to having everybody be equal.
    Given my understanding of what systemic racism is, I'm not sure all the effects ever could be fully eradicated.

  15. #165
    Ballin' OldDirtMcGirt's Avatar
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    I am not talking about government policies Girt ..... I am talking about how black and white people treat each other ...... They are equally racist toward one another. A black man has just as good a chance to not like white people as a white man has of not likeing black people.

    I have felt it from both sides .... and until people realize that they are both to blame it will continue.
    Even if that is true, if a white man hates a black man, and the black man hates the white man, and the white man happens to be a cop/employer/landlord/etc.... that's the problem right there.

  16. #166
    Ballin' OldDirtMcGirt's Avatar
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    Given my understanding of what systemic racism is, I'm not sure all the effects ever could be fully eradicated.
    It can't. However, it has been reduced and more progress can be made in that departement. People will always hate, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about it.

  17. #167
    Ray Lewis Killed A Guy monosylab1k's Avatar
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    Even if that is true, if a white man hates a black man, and the black man hates the white man, and the white man happens to be a cop/employer/landlord/etc.... that's the problem right there.
    so there's no black cops/employers/landlords/etc? or are you saying that all black cops/employers/landlords/etc could not possibly be racist?

  18. #168
    Ballin' OldDirtMcGirt's Avatar
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    so there's no black cops/employers/landlords/etc? or are you saying that all black cops/employers/landlords/etc could not possibly be racist?
    No, but I'm saying that it's much, much less common than the former.

  19. #169
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Famous undercover expose of racism in America

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpO7g9mLzlw

  20. #170
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Even if that is true, if a white man hates a black man, and the black man hates the white man, and the white man happens to be a cop/employer/landlord/etc.... that's the problem right there.
    The problem isn't when the white man hates the black man... the problem is when the white man acts based upon subconscious preconceived notionsof the black man based upon visual cues, or even more inscrutably, when the white man assumes that the black man has the same cultural frame of reference as the white man, and then reacts negatively when the black man fails to conduct himself in accordance with that frame.

  21. #171
    Believe. zrinkill's Avatar
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    Even if that is true, if a white man hates a black man, and the black man hates the white man, and the white man happens to be a cop/employer/landlord/etc.... that's the problem right there.
    It could just as easly be the other way around ......

    Or what if it was a half black/white baby who has to be renamed because his black grandfather does not want a part white child named after him?

    dont talk to me about racism because you get followed around at walmart

  22. #172
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    It can't. However, it has been reduced and more progress can be made in that departement. People will always hate, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about it.
    I don't think it's hate; I think it's that the socioeconomic insitutions of the nation were founded by persons of European descent hundreds of years ago, and that the minority culture was forced to develop outside of those, due to ins utional racism. Once integration happened, we did it in such a way that damaged the parallel socioeconomic ins utions of the oppressed minority race, forcing it then to adapt to those of the dominant race, which to the minority will always be somewhat discordant.

    In less pedantic langauge, white people never have to live in a black America unless they choose to do so, but black people have no choice but to live in a white America.

  23. #173
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    I don't think it's hate; I think it's that the socioeconomic insitutions of the nation were founded by persons of European descent hundreds of years ago, and that the minority culture was forced to develop outside of those, due to ins utional racism. Once integration happened, we did it in such a way that damaged the parallel socioeconomic ins utions of the oppressed minority race, forcing it then to adapt to those of the dominant race, which to the minority will always be somewhat discordant.

    In less pedantic langauge, white people never have to live in a black America unless they choose to do so, but black people have no choice but to live in a white America.

    What???

  24. #174
    I Got Hops Extra Stout's Avatar
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    Another tough nut to crack with regard to systemic racism in the internalization thereof into the cultural self-image of the black community.

  25. #175
    Ballin' OldDirtMcGirt's Avatar
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    I don't think it's hate; I think it's that the socioeconomic insitutions of the nation were founded by persons of European descent hundreds of years ago, and that the minority culture was forced to develop outside of those, due to ins utional racism. Once integration happened, we did it in such a way that damaged the parallel socioeconomic ins utions of the oppressed minority race, forcing it then to adapt to those of the dominant race, which to the minority will always be somewhat discordant.

    In less pedantic langauge, white people never have to live in a black America unless they choose to do so, but black people have no choice but to live in a white America.
    Man, I'm just letting Extra Stout carry the torch from here. No way I can surpass using "pendantic".

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