Enough, LeBron is not even the 3rd best wing in the NBA

[michaelwcho]

[QUOTE=Cry Havoc]Are you ing kidding? Jordan might have ridden his teammates, sure, but he wasn't afraid to put the ball in their hands, even if it meant they lost. Jordan developed friendships and/or relationships with his players. He fought with them not because he was deriding their ability as players, but because he was willing them to be BETTER, to focus better, to play better, not because they were taking away "his" chance at a le.


Jordan's teammates, every single one of them that lasted longer than a season, would tell you that they would follow him into battle, that he was a teammate who wanted to win.

QUOTE]

Where are you getting this crap? Have you read The Jordan Rules!? That dude was a tyrant. It took him ___6 years___ to find a way to learn how to win while keeping up his treasured 32 points a game.

[Cry Havoc]

Where are you getting this crap? Have you read The Jordan Rules!? That dude was a tyrant. It took him ___6 years___ to find a way to learn how to win while keeping up his treasured 32 points a game.

The year Kobe averages 8 assists per game and shoots over 50%, I'll change my at ude. However, even with Shaq, whom his ego-battle should have clued everyone in to the type of player he is, he only averaged 5 assists per game. He averaged 43% shooting with 4.4 assists this year.

Kobe's highest assist average in a SINGLE season is lower than LeBron James' career average. How is this even debatable that Kobe is a decent teammate when compared to LeBron?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I do not think it is impossible for Kobe to lead a ty team without Shaq to the finals if he were in the Eastern conference, ESPECIALLY if his team was in this year's eastern conference, and even moreso if he played the wizards at any point in his playoff run.

I know its a dead horse, but it is what it is.

[gaKNOW!blee]

Kobe
Lebron
Wade
Melo

[michaelwcho]

The year Kobe averages 8 assists per game and shoots over 50%, I'll change my at ude. However, even with Shaq, whom his ego-battle should have clued everyone in to the type of player he is, he only averaged 5 assists per game. He averaged 43% shooting with 4.4 assists this year.

Kobe's highest assist average in a SINGLE season is lower than LeBron James' career average. How is this even debatable that Kobe is a decent teammate when compared to LeBron?

I'm not disagreeing, I was just disagreeing with what you said about Jordan. Jordan was just as bad as Kobe, just smarter in the PR department. Kobe is a very unusual person who doesn't get on with his teammates too well. The book "The Show" about the Lakers, has a lot of interesting interviews with them.

I think LeBron is a great teammate and seems to be a decent guy too. I think Kobe is ultimately more talented, but I think LeBron has a better chance of having more impact on the game.

By the way, that book I mentioned does not paint a pretty picture of Shaq, either. Apparently he was pretty ty to Kobe right from the start. They were probably equally at fault.

[BWJACKETS]

All I have been hearing/reading is how great LeBron James is since his one shining moment in Game 5 against Detroit. Before the series started everyone here thought James would tear Bruce a new asshole, they thought he could singlehandedly cause headaches for the Spurs, and they thought his team should be taken seriously. People on this forum actually think the Cavaliers could beat the Spurs.

Alright, does anyone here really think this LeBron is better than Kobe Bryant? There isn't a single thing LeBron can do that Kobe probably could not do a little bit better. LeBron is shooting just .425 in these playoffs and in his last 9 games he has broken 30 points only twice. Kobe Bryant has been put in a similar position with his team for the past 3 seasons and he has never had that rough of a stretch....and you could make the argument that Kobe Bryant's teammates are worse.Factor in that Kobe plays in a tougher conference, and I see no comparison. Kobe is a much better shooter, he is much smarter with the basketball, he can also pass very well, and he is a much better defender than LeBron.

Would a Spurs/Lakers match up honestly concern anyone here? a weaker Spurs team beat them when they had Shaq and Kobe (and '03 Kobe > '07 LeBron).

Dwayne Wade. He is just as good of a passer as LeBron (check his stats in the playoffs last year) he is a much better shooter (doesn't take much) and he is just as good at both getting to the rim and finishing. Overall, Wade is a much more efficient, and ultimately a better player. Frankly I cant think of one thing that LeBron does that you cant argue Wade does just as well if not better, maybe LeBron is a better rebounder, but Wade gets a lot of boards in big games too.

Carmelo Anthony. He gets a bad wrap on this board because of his off court issues, but its pretty easy to see that he is a much more dangerous scorer than LeBron. In the 5 games he played against the spurs he averaged over 28 points per game (that's more than lebron has averaged in any series) shooting 48 percent from the field, and that's against a team that plays defense. Carmelo is just as explosive (if not moreso) and a much better shooter from all over the court than LeBron. (and dont forget he is apparently the most clutch player in the league, hitting the highest field goal percentage of any NBA player in the end of games). Carmelo doesnt control the ball as much as LeBron so we do see passing as a major part of his game, but against the spurs in the playoffs he grabbed a lot of boards and played relatively well on the defensive end.

LeBron to me is the essence of an overhyped, decent player on a ty team. I guarantee that Carmelo would on the cavs in a 7 game series, and I highly doubt the Cavs could have beaten a single team the Spurs played in the western conference playoffs.

The best wing players in the league according to me:
1) Kobe
2) Wade
3) Carmelo

Don't let the hype confuse you

You came up with all of that based on one game? Man, you must be really smart!

Come on man, your entire post is a joke. James has one bad game and you think he isn't good. Watch, he will come back with a big game and let's see if the Cavs don't win Game 2. Certainly if he performs well the Cavs have a chance to win any one of these games, as a team they just didn't know how to deal with the hype of the finals in game one.

[ChumpDumper]

Lebron is a very good basketball player.

[BWJACKETS]

I do not think it is impossible for Kobe to lead a ty team without Shaq to the finals if he were in the Eastern conference, ESPECIALLY if his team was in this year's eastern conference, and even moreso if he played the wizards at any point in his playoff run.

I know its a dead horse, but it is what it is.

You are en led to your own opinion, but if it was so easy than why haven't there been any teams in the East who have done exactly what you have said? , look at Gilbert Arenas in Washington. Arenas may not be quite as good as Kobe but he is that same kind of player who can just shoot the lights out, and furthermore he has Butler and Jamison, two guys who comprise a much better #2 and #3 option than Kobe has in LA. The fact of the matter is, you have to have a good team rather than a good player to make it to the finals out of either conference, it just isn't easy to waltz right into the NBA Finals any way you break it down.

[tim_duncan_fan]

You are en led to your own opinion, but if it was so easy than why haven't there been any teams in the East who have done exactly what you have said?

The simple answer to this question is that the only players in the East even close to Kobe are surprise, surprise: Wade and James.

Wade won last year and was injured this year and that injury left only James to run through the conference.

[MadDog73]

LeBron is the PG of the Cavs the same way Duncan is the PG of the spurs, the offense runs through him

Jesus, you make SpursFans look stupid.

Aren't you the same guy who called out Duncan a few playoffs ago?

The Spurs offense runs through Tony Parker, who outscored Tim in the first game of the Finals, and is consistently the second best scorer AFTER Tim.

Yes, Tim gets the ball, he's the Spurs best player, but the offense still runs through Parker.

[MadDog73]

so while all of you focus on making excuses for why LeBron doesn't preform as well as Kobe or Wade im sitting here dumbfounded.

And where are Kobe and Wade now?

Dumb .

[Thunder Dan]

Let me know when Ilgauskas starts making movies, becomes deputized, and cuts a track with the Fu Schnickens or whatever.

haha, I think the Big Z is waiting until after his basketball career to start his rap career

[tim_duncan_fan]

And where are Kobe and Wade now?

Dumb .

Wade was held back by a couple of injuries and Kobe plays in a much more compe ive conference.

[Thunder Dan]

Hypothetical Questions

1)If Z was say, a 7'1 325lb Center in his prime, and kept any other player from getting doubled or triple teamed, would Lebron look like a better player in your eyes?

2) If Lebron played with the same person listedn above, as well as very seasoned vets. such as: Gary Payton(who doesn't start, but would for the Cavs), Antoine Walker, and Alonzo Mourning (who is also better than Z). Would Lebron look better than he does right now?

Your not holding all else equal. It might appear that Lebron isn't as good as everyone you mention, but you can only be so good when your team is . It's like if Tom Brady or Peyton Manning were playing for the Browns or Cardinals..do you think they would appear to be as good as they are?

[Thunder Dan]

so let me get this straight ? - Damon Jones looked like an All-star with Wade and Shaq but with Lebron he cannot even get on the court? Do you somehow think that validates Lebron's greatness? To me it is the exact opposite. Damon Jones -- Larry Hughes - both of them far worse off as Cavs...Lebron has not done anything to benefit either one of them

a dominate center that commands doubles in the paint helps outside shooters (Damon Jones) and slashers (Larry Hughes). you should have learned that in Basketball 101.

Damon Jones doesn't play because he's a defensive liability and that's what the Cavs are focused on. Gibson shoots just as good and is better on D, and Eric Snow is alot better on D... Therefore they see the minutes that would go to Jones.

Hughes.... Man, I don't know what his problem is. His whole game was his athleticism, I guess all the injuries he's had has slowed him down alot.

Your right about his defense, but the reason he played and Miami was becuase he shot a high three point percentage down the stretch of the 2005 season. The reason the Cavs don't play him is becuase he hasn't hit a three since down the stretch of the 2005 season with Miami.

Hence his nickname given to him by the TNT Crew "The Monster that Shaq Built"

[MadDog73]

Wade was held back by a couple of injuries and Kobe plays in a much more compe ive conference.

Well, if Kobe or Wade > Lebron, that shouldn't matter.

FACT: Right now, LeBron > Kobe.

That's not saying he's better in the regular season, or will be better next year.

But LeBron > fishing.

[tim_duncan_fan]

Well, if Kobe or Wade > Lebron, that shouldn't matter.

Of course it matters. Injuries can and do hamper players and Kobe plays against stronger teams in the playoffs. These guys are better than LeBron. The Spurs couldn't even dream of holding Kobe to 14 points.

You're right though LeBron>fishing and right now Kobe and Wade are fishing.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Jesus, you make SpursFans look stupid.

Aren't you the same guy who called out Duncan a few playoffs ago?

The Spurs offense runs through Tony Parker, who outscored Tim in the first game of the Finals, and is consistently the second best scorer AFTER Tim.

Yes, Tim gets the ball, he's the Spurs best player, but the offense still runs through Parker.

Watch much Spurs basketball there chief?

Put your foot in your mouth much?

[RobinsontoDuncan]

So who still thinks LeBron is better than kobe?

[Cry Havoc]

So who still thinks LeBron is better than kobe?

Kobe's numbers this year in the NBA finals are slightly worse than LeBron's: 0 points, 0 boards, 0 steals, 0 assists, 0 blocks, in 0 minutes.

So yeah, give me the 22 year old who's struggling with his first finals over the egomaniac who has no clue how to lead a TEAM of players any ing day of the week.

[thewatcher]

kobe = Lejoke James x 30

[PlaneFast]

Easy way to answer who's better:

If you had to trade Tim Duncan for a player, straight up, who would it be?

Carmelo, Wade, LeBron, or Kobe?

Right now, I'd choose LeBron, easy. He's young, can score, makes teammates better. His only issue for me is ego, but we are talking superstars here.

In fact, if I Cleveland offered LeBron for Duncan today, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

Tim's getting old. Drop BronBron into the Spurs system (which they've been trying to emulate in Cleveland) and we'd have another 4 championships in 9 years. I don't thing Tim would last that long.

Would I trade for Carmelo? no. Wade? no. I'm amazed any of you guys even consider them in the same class as LeBron (other than the same draft class). LBJ is guaranteed HOF. Wade/Carmelo, not so.

PlaneFast.com

[milkyway21]

team leaders while on bench - notice the difference:

LeBron biting his nails...


Duncan cheering for his Spurs.

LeBron still needs to study leadership skills from Duncan.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Kobe's numbers this year in the NBA finals are slightly worse than LeBron's: 0 points, 0 boards, 0 steals, 0 assists, 0 blocks, in 0 minutes.

So yeah, give me the 22 year old who's struggling with his first finals over the egomaniac who has no clue how to lead a TEAM of players any ing day of the week.

Your intellectual prowess is overwhelming.

Obviously the Lakers aren't in the finals, they play in the western conference (the spurs are representing that particular conference in the finals)

In order to get to the finals they would have to beat the Spurs and Suns and Jazz, something the Cavaliers could not do either.




Oh and BTW, this isnt a discussion of who's younger, its a discussion of who's better. The point of this thread is that LeBron doesn't deserve the hype because there are players in the league right now that play his position that are better than he is

[ducks]

kobe and the lakers would easily have been to the finals facing the exact teams cavs faced