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Most games Tony does a good job directing. And he also follows his coach's instructions - who told him to shoot upwards of 20-25 times a game in these playoffs if necessary.
Because you are the one who needs teaching, so you can open your eyes and see that Tony does a lot more than score. The whole focus of the Cavs D was to stop Tony's penetration. His penetration is key to what everyone else is doing on the court.
Most games Tony does a good job directing. And he also follows his coach's instructions - who told him to shoot upwards of 20-25 times a game in these playoffs if necessary.
I'm guessing you didn't watch many games in the playoffs. Against Denver, Parker clearly had the better series. Not even really debatable.
In the Suns series, Parker was also the better player. Manu had a huge second half in Game 5 and played his best game of the season in Game 6, but he had three full games where he was substantially sub-Manu level. In those three games, he averaged 8 points, shot 25% and had a plus/minus of -17. For the series, Parker averaged 21 points, 6 assists and led the team in plus/minus in the series with a +24 (Manu was a +2 in the series). And you don't want to even begin adding in the defense because that would make your case look even worse.
The Jazz series was probably the closest series. Tony played better in Games 2, 3 and 5. Manu played better in Games 1 and 4. But because Game 4 was the key game to that series, I'd say they both played equally as well. They tied in plus/minus for the series so I think it's safe to say it was a wash.
I don't get why supposed Spurs fans even make it a compe ion between the two players. Manu was the second star in the 2005 championship. Parker was probably the second star in the 2007 championship. But really, who cares? They both are very good players and they both just want to win. And in 2005 and 2007, they won.
It's not a compe ion between them to see who can play better. In one string of games, Manu is going to be the better player. In another string of games, Parker is going to be a better player. When you have two players so close in talent who aren't the main focal point of the team, it's going to just depend on who is rolling that year. Bottomline is it's about winning and the Spurs won it.
i've never understood why some people find it necessary to tear down a player on a team just to prop another one up. why? is it not enough that we just won the ing championship? tony's become a great player, a far cry from his free-wheeling, youthful past which for some reason he can't seem to shake. the guy just won the mvp of the finals, so he's doing something right. let's congratulate him and the team and pray that they can do it again next year instead of calling him overhyped and ting on him to make two other players who could give less of a look good.
@ Dartherus
Did you read I said GREAT not just 'good'? when was the last time of Parker having GREAT direction?
Or, when was the last time Parker had a 4th querter, like the one Manu had in the ONLY closed game of the final? or in former games where the team was in deep trouble?
BTW You must really watch more European basketball, to learn concepts that make you realize that Parker intagibles are FAR, VERY FAR of the intangibles that players with HIGH BASKETBALL IQ like Tim, Manu, Oberto or Horry, can provide.
Uh did you watch Game 3? That'd answer everything in that sentence.
I'm guessing you didn't watch many games in the playoffs. Against Denver, Parker clearly had the better series. Not even really debatable.
In the Suns series, Parker was also the better player. Manu had a huge second half in Game 5 and played his best game of the season in Game 6, but he had three full games where he was substantially sub-Manu level. In those three games, he averaged 8 points, shot 25% and had a plus/minus of -17. For the series, Parker averaged 21 points, 6 assists and led the team in plus/minus in the series with a +24 (Manu was a +2 in the series). And you don't want to even begin adding in the defense because that would make your case look even worse.
The Jazz series was probably the closest series. Tony played better in Games 2, 3 and 5. Manu played better in Games 1 and 4. But because Game 4 was the key game to that series, I'd say they both played equally as well. They tied in plus/minus for the series so I think it's safe to say it was a wash.
I don't get why supposed Spurs fans even make it a compe ion between the two players. Manu was the second star in the 2005 championship. Parker was probably the second star in the 2007 championship. But really, who cares? They both are very good players and they both just want to win. And in 2005 and 2007, they won.
It's not a compe ion between them to see who can play better. In one string of games, Manu is going to be the better player. In another string of games, Parker is going to be a better player. When you have two players so close in talent who aren't the main focal point of the team, it's going to just depend on who is rolling that year. Bottomline is it's about winning and the Spurs won it.
I'm not disputing the MVP LJ, but if you're gonna go by +/-, then you'd have to give the Finals MVP to Manu, no?
And PS...
http://aol.nba.com/statistics/lenovo...t=9&team=Spurs
I believe that's 3 years running now he's led the team in the postseason, but you know, it's only a legit stat when he's doing poorly.
I guess you didn't read the part where I said he was told to shoot 20-25 times a game in these playoffs. He's a score first point guard. It would be ridiculous to want him to pass all the time when he can get in the lane at will and score. The Spurs don't expect him to be a pass first point guard.
But as for great direction, there were plenty of games in this playoffs where his passing and vision were great. Look at his multiple games with seven or more assists, plus a few of the other games when he had around six assists but his teammates were bricking.
what a shocker coming from this guy...not disputing the MVP LJ, but if you're gonna go by +/-, then you'd have to give the Finals MVP to Manu, no?
What's funny is that Manu and Tim believe Tony carried them for most of the playoffs. Yet some fans refuse to believe it's true.
You two can't read. I'm not saying I disagree with the decision and I'm not saying I don't think Tony deserved it.
What I'm saying is LJ's defense of it, with +/-, is poor. Just say he won it because he averaged the most points and be done with it.
Um... I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about Dartherus. I wasn't answering Tpark.
no he won it cause he played the best.Just say he won it because he averaged the most points and be done with it.
He also played great defense on Gibson and Larry Hughes.
Gonna ignore that too?
Larry Hughes was inactive games 3 and 4, what does that tell you about how he was feeling in games 1 and 2?
Tony had a good series against Cleveland no doubt, but he also had the best matchup this series for him to succeed. You can't dispute that. This series was made for Tony to dominate. And guarding Gibson is as simple as putting a hand up on the 3 point line. He's not exactly a threat for a dribble drive blow by.
It's just funny to me. When it comes to Tony, you magically notice all the intangibles. When it's Manu, all you care about is points, points, points.
It's just funny to me. When it comes to Tony, you magically notice all the intangibles. When it's Manu, all you care about is points, points, points.
god would you quit with the manu tony bull !!
Parker earned the goddamn MVP cause he played great all the way around and pretty much was the best player on the team in all 4 games.
BY FAR AND AWAY.
Christ. Its always gotta be this bull "wahhh manu this wahhh manu"
I thought after the Finals MAYBE Parker would shut you haters up.
But now you guys dig to new depths congrats
Larry Hughes also put up 10 and 10 in 5 and against Detroit.Larry Hughes was inactive games 3 and 4, what does that tell you about how he was feeling in games 1 and 2?
Tony had a good series against Cleveland no doubt, but he also had the best matchup this series for him to succeed. You can't dispute that. This series was made for Tony to dominate. And guarding Gibson is as simple as putting a hand up on the 3 point line. He's not exactly a threat for a dribble drive blow by.
So he could still score, parker was just embarassing him so bad he had to step aside.
guarding Gibson is NOT as easy as that.
Gibson can drive to the hole, parker just played good defense.
As much as you don't like to admit it.
Best Player...god would you quit with the manu tony bull !!
Parker earned the goddamn MVP cause he played great all the way around and pretty much was the best player on the team in all 4 games.
BY FAR AND AWAY.
Christ. Its always gotta be this bull "wahhh manu this wahhh manu"
I thought after the Finals MAYBE Parker would shut you haters up.
But now you guys dig to new depths congrats
Game 1: Tim
Game 2: Robert
Game 3: Bruce
Game 4: Manu
You could argue that Tony won it because A) He scored the most points and B) He was probably the most consistent over the four games. He never had a "bad" game in any of the four. But if you define best as most points, then congratulations.
First off, good to see you found your way off the shower rod.
Second of all, props to Manu for his +47 against the Cavs. He was vastly superior to any bench player they could put on him. Manu was a huge part of the championship and anyone who thinks differently doesn't know much about basketball or the Spurs.
Thirdly, I've never said I would have voted for Parker as MVP. Duncan naturally has a great case ... and then there's Bowen. But I am happy for Parker because he's taken more undeserved criticism about his performances in the playoffs over the years than anyone on the team.
Again, props to Manu. The first time he leads the team in plus/minus the whole playoffs is after the final game. Good timing.
But seeing how you like trashing the Cavs, I'm awaiting your asterisk seeing how 47 out of that 90 came against Cleveland. In every other series, Manu didn't finish higher than 4th in plus/minus.
Last edited by timvp; 06-16-2007 at 03:33 AM.
Actually, you can't read if you think I used +/- as a defense to his MVP ... since I never said I thought he was the MVP to begin with.
Parker and Manu had pretty much even matchups. Who was the defensive stopper they could put on Manu?
Manu is still capable of bigger explosions(offensively and defensively) than Parker...but Parker looks like he has finally turned the corner of being consistent, and that is something that still plagues Manu.
Consistency is the #1 thing that defines a SuperStar...lots of guys are capable of putting up a 20 and 10...but Duncan does it almost every night, against all caliber of comp. That's what makes him Duncan. Parker appears to have finally added this to his game...that's why he won the Finals MVP...because for 4 games straight he was either the first or second best offensive player on the team.
Manu has never been consistent...if he could play at his optimum level game in and game out...not only would he have a shot at finals MVP...he'd have a shot at regular season MVP as well.
I believe they tried LeBron on him a few times there in Game 4. Didn't work out too well. Anyway, take your little snide shots at Manu all you want. At least he closed out the series and redeemed himself for Game 3. And we got another ring. I know you're not a complete idiot at least. Can't say the same for TPark.
I say congratulations to Tony. He stepped up huge most of these playoffs and I can no longer criticize him for shrinking when it counts. I'm very happy he's on our team and I hope he leads us to a couple more rings before Tim and Manu hang 'em up.
The Finals didn't quite end the way I would've written it (I wanted a high scoring game, with James having one strong performance at least, because I was impressed with his classiness after Game 3. I was hoping for 99-97 Cavs, with all big three for Spurs playing well, and Manu passing to Fin for a three at the buzzer and a 100-99 win) but that fourth quarter was pretty awesome and I'm very happy the team peaked at the right time.
There was so much negativity on this board for long, about the team, about individual players, it's nice for the team to win and shut everyone up (especially bandwagon fans and the trolls).
And if you must know, the reason I'm just posting now is because I was moving from San Diego the past two days and had no internet access. But thanks for asking, really.
A lot of that is just shots, Whottt. If a guy like Kobe is going to take 25 shots every game, then he will get his points every game, regardless of how well he is shooting. Kobe can have a miserable shooting night and still crack 20 points, just from shot volume.
Manu will have some nights where he takes just 6 or 8 shots the whole game, and he's not going to do a big night points wise when that happens. That's just reality. I agree Manu needs to be consistent, but it's pretty obvious, some road games vs. the Eastern conference, he just floats out there and isn't into it. Sometimes it'll happen at home against crappy teams as well. He's just not wired to want to have a big game every night, and since he's got two other stars on his team, he doesn't feel that responsibility to produce every game.
I think a lot of consistency has to do with wanting to be "the man" and he just doesn't want to be. He's already treated like a God in Argentina, and I don't think he wants that kind of attention in the states. He'll turn it on when he has to, in the 4th quarters or whatever, because in the end winning is still the most important thing, but for the most part he is content to be in the background if he can be.
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