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"how come this MVP is so 'deserved' then?"
The award is called "Finals MVP", not "Playoffs MVP".
I agree with you that Phoenix was the toughest of the four teams we faced in the 2007 playoffs, but you don't get the Finals MVP during the de facto Finals, you get it during the actual Finals.Wasn't the real NBA final against PHOENIX and not this joke against the East champion?
Wasn't Parker clearly behind Manu and Tim in such series? how come this MVP is so 'deserved' then?
Also, I love that every point guard is supposed to play the position exactly the same way John Stockton played it. That's rich. Tony Parker has a different skill set and a different mentality - he can't be successful playing anyone else's game. He, like every other player ever, has to play his own game.
I hope, one day, to disabuse certain fans of the "ONE AND ONLY ONE WAY TO PLAY THE GAME" delusion. I realize that's a very faint hope, but I'll keep trying.
"how come this MVP is so 'deserved' then?"
The award is called "Finals MVP", not "Playoffs MVP".
i thought before the playoffs If we win the le, it might be possible to end this stupid Manu vs Tony war but Aaron is still around...
First off, I already congratulated Tony. See post #149
I say congratulations to Tony. He stepped up huge most of these playoffs and I can no longer criticize him for shrinking when it counts. I'm very happy he's on our team and I hope he leads us to a couple more rings before Tim and Manu hang 'em up.
Secondly, check this paragraph out, from Truehoop's Henry Abbott...
Underappreciated in this series: Manu Ginobili. (Thanks to TrueHoop reader Anthony for putting these numbers together based on Popcorn Machine box scores.) This is one of those instances when plus/minus can make you aware of something that wasn't otherwise evident. Consider this: over the four games of this series, the Spurs outscored the Cavaliers when Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, or Bruce Bowen were on the bench. But when Manu Ginobili was on the bench, they were -18. In total, the Spurs were +64 with Ginobili on the floor compared to when he was off, +22 with Duncan, +18 with Bowen, and +12 with Parker. (Even in his "miserable" 0-7 Game 3, Ginobili was +11, second only to Brent Barry.) Yet somehow Manu Ginobili didn't even enter the MVP discussion.
Sorry if you need somebody else to point out the obvious for you. Tony won the MVP because he scored the most points and shot the best %. That's pretty much it. You wanna talk about passing and defense you'd give it to Tim. You want to talk intangibles and +/-, you'd give it to Manu.
I don't understand why anyone is complaining. He scored the most points bottom line, he was the only guy we had who didn't have at least one subpar game, he was consistent, and he deserved the award. How many times do you want me to say it?
But was he the best player in any one game? No. And did he have a good series in any area outside of scoring the ball? Well, he rebounded pretty decently. But yes, I've seen better passing from him these playoffs and I've seen better defense. Like most of the team, Tony played his best ball vs. the Suns and the Jazz and got pretty bored with Cleveland.
I'm glad Manu doesn't feel the way some of you guys feel about Tony winning MVP. Manu is happy for him. He's probably still getting drunk with him as we speak.
Parker was fantastic all playoffs and deserved Finals MVP. But he is far from the best PG in the league. At least, if by "best PG" you mean the usual criteria: distributing, leading, getting easy looks for his team, and (usually) deep shooting. Tony has two great advantages over other PGs in the league: amazing speed, and Tim Duncan. Tony gets to the rack because he's blazing fast AND because Tim is sucking in the attention of the D.
Better PGs in the league: Nash, Kidd, Paul, Williams, Hinrich, maybe a couple others.
I love Tony and I think he's a great fit for this team. I'm just saying his game has fewer facets than a lot of other PGs'. He doesn't really have to shine as a phenomenal distributor because in the Spurs system Tim does a lot of that, and the other players are all smart and good passers (um, maybe not Elson).
Viva Tony, but if he were on a different team without a Tim Duncan, he would be much less effective. But so what? Pop has figured out how to blend him in perfectly.
I love how the Spurs offense is kind of built in 3 waves:
1-Tony pushes and tries to get a quick score. If that doesn't work,
2-Tim in the low block/pick n roll; if nothing there;
3-Kick out to the perimeter: Bowen/Finley for 3, Manu for sick shake n bake
Let's do it again in 08!
I agree
when manu is on he is soooooooooooooo good
you were fooledWhat's funny is that Manu and Tim believe Tony carried them for most of the playoffs. Yet some fans refuse to believe it's true.
i
thanks
Cleveland game 4 mvp : manu
finals mvp : tony
playoffs mvp : tim, then bruce/tony/manu in a nuts
It's not a matter of shots...Pop doesn't limit Manu's shots. It's a matter of Manu playing a price for the style he plays. It's really just that simple.
And you are also wrong in thinking Duncan opens up the paint for Parker...
Nobody opens up the paint for Parker.
Do you honestly think coaches are sitting there saying...let's give the paint to Parker and stop everyone else.
Seriously...if that's the case, you need to watch more Spurs games. Teams go to considerable trouble to keep Parker out of the paint, in fact, it's sometimes the entire priority of the defense we face, going back 3 years now, when Phil first made it a priority in 04.
Duncan has little or nothing to do with the PCT Parker shoots at...not for many years now, and it's not hard to see this, take a look at what Parker did the last time Duncan was out for an extended period.
Tony is his own man...he's a much more dominant and feared player than you think...you are behind the curve on him...coaches have been raving about his force of nature ability for years now.
And I realize you are giving him credit...I just don't agree with many of the criticisms you are making...they are about 3 years behind where Parker is as a player now.
The biggest improvement we are going to have next season? Is the Tony Parker that emerged during these playoffs. The SuperStar.
And Tony can pass...he's not Nash or Kidd, but he can pass, and I suspect we will be finding that out on a need to know basis this season....we really don't need him to pass much yet...still.
Tony Parker: Pop built, Pop approved. He's a stud.
As for Parker VS Manu...Manu is more accomplished and is a special player, his resume speaks for itself. But he's also not the player he was even 2 years ago. While Parker is still improving. I still trust Manu more with the ball than Parker...but Parker's time is here and now, and his upside is huge.
At this point...it's really just about a personal preference as to which you like better....we aint winning les without either of them. Parker is now, he is an emerging NBA force...and Manu's career and accomplishments speak for themselves.
Last edited by whottt; 06-16-2007 at 09:07 AM.
HMF, i just realized I am vbookie rich !
I would have to disagree on that,go back to the vids and youīll see how the Cavs played D. on Manu and It looked very alike The spurs D on Lebron.Every time He got the ball and was trying to drive to the baskest the Difense would colapse on him with at least 3 guys on the paint.
I didnīt see that kind of agresive D on TP,I donīt know if it is coze Tony is faster tham Manu(It can be)or that Manu aint as fast as he was 2 years ago,in order to drive to the basket before getting double or triple teamed.
ginobili was out of control.... we'd get a lead and he would turn the ball over and tie the game up... typical... then parker was there to bury everyone out for their mistakes...
this was a landslide... i called it ummm 40 games ago??? something like that.
Recoganize.
Um... what the are you talking about? How did you read this quote:
A lot of that is just shots, Whottt. If a guy like Kobe is going to take 25 shots every game, then he will get his points every game, regardless of how well he is shooting. Kobe can have a miserable shooting night and still crack 20 points, just from shot volume.
Manu will have some nights where he takes just 6 or 8 shots the whole game, and he's not going to do a big night points wise when that happens. That's just reality. I agree Manu needs to be consistent, but it's pretty obvious, some road games vs. the Eastern conference, he just floats out there and isn't into it. Sometimes it'll happen at home against crappy teams as well. He's just not wired to want to have a big game every night, and since he's got two other stars on his team, he doesn't feel that responsibility to produce every game.
I think a lot of consistency has to do with wanting to be "the man" and he just doesn't want to be. He's already treated like a God in Argentina, and I don't think he wants that kind of attention in the states. He'll turn it on when he has to, in the 4th quarters or whatever, because in the end winning is still the most important thing, but for the most part he is content to be in the background if he can be.
and from that go on a rant about me saying Duncan opens up the lane for Tony? I never mentioned Duncan once in that whole thing. In fact, I didn't even mention Tony in that whole thing. I was talking about Manu and his consistency and I have NO idea what you are talking about.
Seriously, I'm totally confused.
Um... Tony had two more turnovers than Manu. What mistakes was Tony burying in that 4th quarter with 0 points? I guess you watched a different game 4 than me.
Seriously who here would have thought this couch humping manu homer Aaronstampler would shut his trap after witnessing Tony's performance these playoffs?
I didn't.
I've already congratulated Tony a hundred times and said he deserved the award a bunch of times. Can't you read? Is public education in San Antonio that poor? LJ is the one who says Tim should have won it. Why don't you go jump on him?
That's funny. The whole Cavs D was focused on stopping Parker. That was their whole defensive game plan.
Without the penetration threat on the perimeter and the speed in the open court the Spurs are relatively easier to defend ala 1992-2001. Do Spurs fans not recognize that the Spurs have had some of the best executing offensive teams in their favorite franchise's history over the last 5 seasons? Whether or not you freedom fry eating, Budweiser drinking 'necks want to accept it, Tony Parker has been at the center of that and his Finals MVP award was justly deserved.
, 4 championships later and I still hate Spurs fans.
One of my favorite Tony Parker plays is from 2005. At the end of game five against Detroit, he defended Rip Hamilton, battling and taking an elbow to the face. He forced Rip into a difficult shot and the Spurs won game five and eventually the championship in seven.
Tony's defense and toughness is what I love most. He still needs to continue to work and improve his perimeter game and free throw shooting. But he is light years better than that set jump shot he had his first two years in the league.
Is he the best point guard in the league? I think he's right there. If you look at the whole package, it's hard to argue against him.
[B]
and from that go on a rant about me saying Duncan opens up the lane for Tony? I never mentioned Duncan once in that whole thing. In fact, I didn't even mention Tony in that whole thing. I was talking about Manu and his consistency and I have NO idea what you are talking about.
Seriously, I'm totally confused.
Not saying it in that particular post doesn't mean you didn't say it in this thread. I just was responding to that statement without quoting the specific post in which you said it...you know you said it.
Parker does that too late in games, penetrate and TO...let's keep it real here.
timvp > herpes > aaronstampler
You look for any opening you can to make it look like manu owns tony just like you snap at me or anyone else for criticizing manu when he plays like garbage.
I agree.Manu totally owned game 4,that was his game.
But Tony was the most consistent in the finals,thatīs why He is the MVP.
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