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barry for luke jackson?
cavs get their vet shooter
barry would fit in with his no d to
ESPN NBA Insider - 12/14/04
Tuesday, December 14, 2004
By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider
General managers, start your engines. Players, keep your bags packed. After six weeks of pretty intense trade rumors, the gloves come off Wednesday.
Dec. 15 marks the day both free agents who signed contracts this summer and NBA rookies are eligible to be traded. Those players represent nearly a quarter of the players in the league. That explains why doing deals before Wednesday was a little bit difficult.
"Like a lot of teams, we're sitting back with Dec. 15 around the corner, which, for a lot of players, represents a lot more names that can come into the mix," Heat GM Randy Pfund said over the weekend.
It's ironic, really. This summer, the same guys about to go on the trading block were supposed to be the guys who would help put their new teams over the top.
Best-laid plans ...
How can things go so wrong, so quickly? And why do teams think a player will play any differently with a change of scenery?
Today, Insider looks at 10 guys who will be eligible to be traded beginning Wednesday who might be wearing a new uniform by the Feb. 24 trade deadline.
Brent Barry, G, Spurs
Brent Barry
Guard
San Antonio Spurs
Profile
2004-2005 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
22 6.5 2.2 2.4 .387 .800
Remember all those preseason stories claiming Barry was the missing piece to the Spurs' championship aspirations? Someone forgot to tell Spurs head coach Gregg Popovich. Barry's minutes have been dwindling by the week. Over his last five games he's averaged just 11 mpg and 2.6 ppg. What's the problem?
His 3-point shot has been cold as ice (28 percent this year to 45 percent last year). Without his shooting, Barry can be a liability. His defense is not up to Popovich's standards, and the Spurs haven't needed Barry to play backup point thanks to a terrific start by rookie Beno Udrih. With so many teams in need of a veteran shooter, will the Spurs cut their losses while Barry has trade value? He turns 33 on Dec. 31. His stock won't stay high forever.
Brent might not be the only Barry on the move. His brother, Jon, isn't getting minutes for the Hawks and has some value around the league.
Marcus Camby, C, Nuggets
Marquis Daniels #6 and Tim Duncan #21
The Mavs might use Daniels (right) as bait to make a run at Jason Kidd.
There has been plenty of Nene trade talk going around, but on one level it makes absolutely no sense for Denver. Aren't the Nuggets better off keeping Nene, playing him at center and trying to trade Camby? While Camby is a better rebounder and shotblocker, he's also eight years older than Nene, has a history of injury problems and makes about $6 million more.
Camby pines for a return to New York. The Knicks have a plethora of guards they could give to Denver to fill that gaping hole at the two. The Sonics, Blazers and Grizzlies are other teams that could use a big man like Camby. And don't forget the Nets. If the Nuggets do make a play for Jason Kidd, Camby will be one of the players, along with Andre Miller, that would have to be included to make the deal work financially.
Marquis Daniels, G, Mavericks
Mark Cuban and the Mavs might have overreacted a bit this summer when they threw $37 million at Daniels, who went undrafted in 2003, after a brilliant end to his rookie season. The Mavs had just lost Steve Nash to Phoenix and wanted to stop the bleeding, especially if they couldn't find another point guard.
Since then, they have acquired Jason Terry and Darrell Armstrong, leaving Daniels only about 22 minutes a night. His numbers haven't been bad (8.8 ppg, 3 apg in his last five games), but they aren't exactly what he did toward the end of last season, either. If the Mavs try to make a run at Kidd, or another veteran point guard, Daniels could be the bait.
Quentin Richardson, G, Suns
Richardson was really the fourth option for the Suns in free agency. After landing Nash, they spent time wooing Hedo Turkoglu, Manu Ginobili and Mehmet Okur. When Turkolgu bolted for Orlando and it became clear that Ginobili and Okur wanted too much money, the Suns settled on Richardson.
The team believed the Clippers would match their relatively modest offer – modest for last summer, anyway – and were surprised when they didn't. Over the course of the summer, there were a number of trade rumors linked to Shawn Marion and Joe Johnson, but neither reached fruition.
Quentin Richardson
Guard
Phoenix Suns
Profile
2004-2005 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
21 14.8 5.9 1.9 .394 .830
It turns out Richardson was money well spent. He's been fantastic of late and plays a big role on the team with the best record in the league. So why trade him?
The thinking goes that once the Suns reach the postseason, the days of endless running will end. They'll need a bigger post presence than Amare Stoudemire and don't have many good options. If they could land a player like Nene or Samuel Dalembert for Richardson, it would be a tough deal to decline. Then again, the Suns could very well stick with what's working right now. Richardson plays an important role on the team – one slight change in chemistry could wreck things for the Suns. They don't want that to happen.
Jamal Crawford, G, Knicks
Isiah Thomas loves Crawford. On July 1, when free agency began, Thomas was the first and only GM to call Crawford. He was willing to bid against himself, constantly ramping up the dollar signs until he eventually paid Crawford $20 million more than what the Bulls or anyone else was offering. In turn, Crawford loves Isiah, a critical attribute for any player who plays under Isiah (just ask Shandon Anderson).
So why is Crawford on this list? Because Isiah can't sit still while his team wallows in mediocrity. He has big ideas of landing another superstar like Vince Carter and his current offers – with players like Nazr Mohammed and Tim Thomas – are getting him nowhere. Crawford is the one young player on his team with some trade value. Would he be willing to sacrifice him to bring another star in the Garden? So far the answer has been no. But, as Isiah gets more desperate to make a deal, who knows?
Steve Smith, G, Bobcats
The Bobcats signed Smith to be a mentor to one of the youngest teams in the league. But that isn't the whole story. Last summer, most GMs were convinced Smith was teetering on retirment. With sore knees and plenty of wear and tear, it wasn't like GMs were beating down his door. Smith claims he chose the Bobcats, but the truth is the Bobcats also chose him.
Smith has been great in Charlotte, averaging a surprising 22 mpg, and shooting a sizzling 44 percent from the 3-point arc. You think a team with championship aspirations – a team like the Heat, Pistons or even the Nuggets – wouldn't like some of that? GM and head coach Bernie Bickerstaff claims he'll let Smith go if that's what the veteran wants to do. It should be a tough choice for Smith. He can play big minutes on a bad team, or play a smaller role on a good one. If a team offers the right deal, Bickerstaff, who is building for the future, might have no choice but to say yes.
ROOKIES
Luke Jackson, G, Cavs
Luke Jackson
Guard
Cleveland Cavaliers
Profile
2004-2005 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
9 3.0 0.6 0.3 .360 .833
Jackson was one of the highest risers in the draft last summer. After scouts routinely predicted most of the year that Jackson would be a bubble first-round pick, he rocketed up the charts after a series of strong workouts and landed in Cleveland with the 10th pick. The book on Jackson said he was one of the few players in the draft that would be able to come in and immediately provide a team with solid outside shooting and a mature offensive game.
The Cavs need a solid outside shooter and another perimeter scoring option, but so far Jackson hasn't seen the light of day. With the Cavs taking their pursuit of the playoffs very seriously this year, it looks like Jackson might not get off the bench. While the team is still high on him, if he could be used to draw in a veteran shooter like Michael Redd, the team would jump at a deal.
Redd has been telling people close to him he wants to sign with the Cavs this summer when he hits restricted free agency. The Cavs will have the cash to do it, and the Bucks will have few resources to stop him. If the Cavs offered Jackson and Anderson Varejao, another rookie the Bucks are high on, would the Bucks bite? It might be their only legit shot to get something of value for Redd before he leaves.
Ben Gordon, G, Bulls
No rookie has been tougher to get a read on than Gordon. One minute he looks like the second coming of Allen Iverson. The next night he's going 0-for-7 from the field. Luckily for the Bulls, his good games are coming closer together. When he's been on lately, the Bulls have found that winning comes much easier. So why dump Gordon now?
The issue with Gordon is this: He's not a great fit in the Bulls backcourt with Kirk Hinrich. He needs to be on the floor with a big point guard or he needs to make the transition from a 'two' to a 'one'. Neither is likely to happen as long as Hinrich is around. Some Bulls fans might suggest Hinrich be shipped out instead, but that's probably not going to happen on John Paxson's watch.
The likelihood of a Gordon trade is pretty slim, but there are several teams that really covet him. If Paxson could package him with Eddy Curry and get a legit, young All-Star in return, it might be something the Bulls would have to consider. It's tough to win with rookies, and the Bulls have six on their roster right now. If Paxson is serious about changing the culture of losing in Chicago, he at least has to listen.
Sebastian Telfair, PG, Blazers
Telfair is starting to get some playing time in Portland, and he's showing he can fly on the fast break and get to the line just about whenever he wants to. The shooting is atrocious and the turnovers are bad, but scouts who liked him in the draft knew that before he was selected.
Telfair has been mentioned as possible bait in a Jason Kidd trade, either directly to Portland or as part of a three-way. If the Nets are going to trade Kidd, they need to replace him with a young point guard. Telfair is from Brooklyn, and he'd sell tickets ... if he pans out. Right now that's still a huge if, but the Nets might be willing to gamble.
Josh Childress, G/F, Hawks
Josh Childress
Guard
Atlanta Hawks
Profile
2004-2005 SEASON STATISTICS
GM PPG RPG APG FG% FT%
19 6.1 3.5 1.3 .435 .762
The Hawks passed on Luol Deng and Andre Iguodala to get Childress, and so far the results have been unimpressive. Childress began the season in the starting lineup but was quickly sent to the bench. Lately, the Hawks' other first-round pick, high school phenom Josh Smith, has been getting the important minutes.
It might be foolish to dump Childress now, however. He has a history of starting slowly at both the college and high school levels, and his stock right now is at rock bottom. Still, if you believe other GMs around the league who are doing business with the Hawks, he's available.
Chad Ford covers the NBA for ESPN Insider.
-----------
Tuesday, December 14 Updated 1:18 PM EST
Rumor Central
Time for Wizards to trade Kwame?
WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY
Kwame Brown
Kwame Brown
Wizards
Sonics
Raptors
Knicks
Hawks Dec. 14 - Kwame Brown has been a complete nonfactor in the Wizards hot start. After missing the start of the season with an injury, he's averaging just 6 ppg and 1.6 rpg.
After a promising third season, Brown is struggling to get with the program. He got in head coach Eddie Jordan's doghouse this week when he refused to enter a game after a timeout. That led to a two-game suspension, along with the promise his name would immediately find its way back on the trading block.
The prospects of getting Brown in a trade have other GMs drooling. He's a 7-foot, 270-pound, 22-year-old athletic big man who is slowly becoming a center.
The Sonics, Raptors, Knicks and Hawks have shown interest ESPN Insider Chad Ford reports. If the Wizards could land a top-flight small forward and defensive-minded big in return, it seems like it would be the perfect opportunity to cash in and make a run in the East.
WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY
Marcus Camby
Marcus Camby
Nuggets
Knicks?
Dec. 14 - Camby just signed a long-term extension with the Nuggets last summer, but his heart belongs to the Knicks, he told the New York Post.
Camby said he and Timberwolves forward Latrell Sprewell, who can be a free agent next summer, Marcus Camby wants another crack at New York.
"Myself, I wish I was still here," Camby said the host Knicks routed his Nuggets on Dec. 13. Camby, whom former Knicks GM Scott Layden traded to the Nuggets, figures he and Sprewell would enjoy playing for Layden's successor, Isiah Thomas.
In July, when Camby re-signed with the Nuggets, he said in a statement issued by agent Rick Kaplan: "I've said all along that Denver was my first choice."
WHO WHAT THE SKINNY
Karl Malone
Karl Malone
Lakers
Knicks?
Spurs?
Timberwolves?
Heat?
Retirement? Dec. 14 - Agent Dwight Manley contacted the Spurs this past weekend to set up a conversation between Malone and Spurs coach and executive Gregg Popovich, the San Antonio Express-News reports.
This is another sign that the Spurs might be the frontrunners for the services of free-agent Malone, who seems to have burned all bridges back to the Lakers in wake of his evolving dispute with Kobe Bryant.
The Spurs have promised to keep a roster spot available should Malone, who estimates he should be recovered from offseason knew surgery by January, decide to play a 20th NBA season.
Former Lakers teammate Shaquille O'Neal hinted in the Miami Herald that Malone might be angry enough with Bryant to join O'Neal, just to spite Bryant.
"If he makes like he wants to come back and play," O'Neal said, "I'll be the first assistant general manager to give him a call."
WHO INTERESTED THE SKINNY
DeShawn Stevenson
DeShawn Stevenson
Magic
? Dec. 14 - Frustrated by his role deep in the Magic rotation, shooting guard Stevenson hopes the Magic trade him, the Orlando Sentinel reports.
"I want out of here. Get me out," said Stevenson, who since signing a three-year, $8.5 million contract has survived one supposed threat to his roster spot when the Magic traded Keith Bogans to the Bobcats last month.
But now Stevenson, who started 24 games last season with the Magic after arriving from the Jazz in a trade, is tired of being the backup to Cuttino Mobley and Stacey Augmon.
GM John Weisbrod said he had "no plans" to trade Stevenson, who did not play in two games and played just five minutes in a recent loss to the Suns.
-------------------
Tuesday, December 14, 2004
By George Karl
ESPN Insider
More from George Karl -- Losing has upside for Bobcats
Editor's Note -- The Hornets visit the Bobcats on Tuesday night, marking the Hornets' first return to Charlotte since moving to New Orleans.
Losing is a painful . The New Orleans Hornets (1-18) and Charlotte Bobcats (4-14) can expect to be in that all season long. As a coach, what can you do to build for the future while injecting some hope into the present?
That's the challenge facing both Byron Scott in his first year with the Hornets and Bernie Bickerstaff of the expansion Bobcats.
Scott is in an unusual situation.
Scott
It's tough when you lose your three best players to injury (Baron Davis, Jamal Mashburn and Jamaal Magloire). Offseason pickup Rodney Rogers is also on injured reserve.
While the Hornets have lost plenty of games and probably will lose plenty more, every day Scott must fight against a culture of losing. Every day, he must respond to losing by looking for the positive as much as possible.
I know from experience that the of losing makes this extremely difficult.
Scott Needs Support,
Not Scrutiny
The New Orleans organization and ownership should support coach Byron Scott. With the injuries his team has suffered, his job should be secure.
Scott shouldn't be judged on wins and losses right now. He needs to be judged on his team's compe iveness and focus, its mental and physical development. Because of the talent gap, the goals are different than simply winning games.
Some of the Hornets' key players are as close to the CBA as the NBA. Injuries have forced guys onto the court who normally would be watching from the bench.
Of course, the upside is that players like Matt Freije, Alex Garcia, Dan au and Junior Harrington are getting the opportunity to improve by playing important minutes.
In the face of this challenge, the organization needs to give players and coaches hope, because they won't see lots of hope in the game results. The Hornets don't need a one-year plan -- more like a five-year plan. Of course, getting healthy would be a good start.
Scott's job is difficult. Rather than focusing on winning now, Scott must help his team stay together and see the long-term goal, which is to get back on a winning track.
— George Karl
When I coached the Cleveland Cavaliers in 1985-86, we started the season at 2-19. Sometimes, as I drove up to the arena, I would actually have trouble turning my car into the parking lot, knowing how hard the task was at the other end.
There were days when I would drive by the parking lot and then have to turn around because I just couldn't get myself to turn in. That's what losing can do to your psyche.
Winning is the best coach, and losing is the worst coach. Losing is a tough opponent and an awful coach, but losing also can be the best teacher in the game. Players don't want to lose.
When a team is losing, though, it's the coach's job to find that positive element day by day and week by week.
The coach needs to go into practices with enthusiasm, work constructively with individual players and develop team concepts -- all while trying to keep everybody's head above water. It takes lots of energy.
A coach can do this by emphasizing getting better every day rather than winning every game.
He can use film to show how his players are improving. You can play games within a game, like trying to win the fourth quarter in a blowout loss.
Or you can focus on rebounding: "Let's get six offensive rebounds this quarter." A coach can take a small aspect of the game and put it under the microscope (in certain games or quarters) as a way of building confidence.
In the intangibles department, a coach can build camaraderie by going out to dinner as a team. It's important to develop team unity and to foster loyalty among teammates so they can trust that even though they're losing, things will be OK in the long run.
A coach can also use humor. When you're losing, there's a lot of intensity at both ends of the emotional spectrum. There's a lot of anger -- and an intensity to that anger -- because you're not winning. And there's also an opportunity at times for comic relief even though you're enduring the of losing.
There's a camaraderie in both that can bring closeness to a team.
George Karl, an NBA analyst for ESPN and former NBA coach, is a regular contributor to Insider.
barry for luke jackson?
cavs get their vet shooter
barry would fit in with his no d to
No Way Barry gets traded... Spurs will regret it and I will be super pissed. Barry WILL turn things around.. I'd put my entire bank account on it..... BOOK IT!
Why give up on Barry ?
dude twenty bucks dont buy nowadays
If he isn't playing well by February, it has to be considered -- especially for a shorter contract to better accomodate Brown this summer. That said, I think he'll turn it around.
"not playing well by February"
Yep, Nov-Dec-Jan-Feb is more than enough time to pull out of his shooting slump, and get a feel what he should be doing on defense. Ruthless but heartbreaking to lose an Spurs-type of guy and what should have been a huge contributor.
Come on, Pop, work it out with this guy.
This is actually good news...Since Pop elects to be an idiot and build a team that will strain in 4th quarters...like every other Spurs team he has built...at least we won't be paying the MLE to a guy that never plays.
It's a good move. I honestly hope it's what the Spurs are trying to do...because at least this way there is more of a chance Holt will pony up to keep Devin Brown.
And I also hope that Beno and the other guards stay healthy.
But just remember, that beautiful transition team that we saw early in the season...it's dead Pop killed it...our offense and 4th second halves of late bear this out.
And this team will be like all those others teams that would blow 25 point second half leads through turnovers and vanillia O(and the only common denominators on all those teams were Pop, Duncan and Malik..it's Pop that causes it).
"Trade Barry for who?" is the real question. I can think of plenty of teams that might want to take the chance on a slumping barry being their missing piece, but what is out there that the Spurs need? A quality center would be great, but who has one of those that they'd be willing to ship out for Brent Barry? I bet the Spurs are wishing they'd gone after Mehmet Okhur in the offseason.
Trade him for someone who can come in and give you 8 great minutes of stellar defense. Michael Cooper looks like he could still go 8.
No way Spurs trade Barry now....they could forget EVER getting another free agent to take less money to play here if they do...
I agree...we definitely need to trade Barry for defense...I mean , we are only #1 in the NBA in just about every D category, even when Barry was playing 20 mins a game...obviously that is where our room for improvement lies.
Need more D.
I think we might be able to pry Anthony Carter out of the TPups for Barry. And he'll come off the books this summer.
And who could complain? Afterall, Pop gave this 10 year veteran 15 games before he started to cut his minutes under 20...that seems fair.
So Whott are you agreeing to the fact that the Spurs do look shaky in fourth quarters, especially offensively?
Is Barry's temporary demotion the only reason you mention it? Or did you even think this before?
And you think them watching Pop ass Barry on the bench is going to not catch their eye?
I think the best thing to keep guys willing to take less to play here is to trade Barry...
If you kill his career...as Pop is going to do...that's what will keep guys from coming here again...Barry not working out on this team, but still doing Barry right by trading him to a team that does value his skills..that's the best thing to do in this situation.
You cannot rot him out on the bench...you gotta trade him if you aren't going ot use him. Plus it's sickening waste of talent to rot him out on the bench.
Pop needs to trade him. It's in the best interest of the Spurs, this season and in future FA seasons...it's also the right thing to do by Barry...guy didn't take less, give up endorsements, to come ride the IR in a podunk down.
Diop/Wagner.
Waive Wagner, get your young athletic center as a restricted FA.
Moot point though, trade won't happen.
Barry has prevented 3 second half collapses this season...Boston, Chicago, Detroit...
This is not to say we would have lost those games...it is to say that he definitely broke our stagnant offense.
And no I did not think our O looked shaky until the Detroit game when Pop refused to play Beno or Barry hardly at all...it's a clear pattern that is what he is going to do in big games this season...even if it's the second night of a back to back.
Barry is an awesome transition player, he is an awesome offensive player efficiency wise..even if his shot does not fall...there's a reason we rolled over teams, non stop so early in the season and IMO Barry was the biggest reason why.
But Pop doesn't care about that.
Last edited by whottt; 12-14-2004 at 05:58 PM.
I wouldn't trade Barry just yet.... In my mind that would be worse than the recent firing of the Notre Dame head coach after only 3 years.
I think pro-basketball players need at least 1 year with a team (plus a stint in the playoffs -- yes... the playoffs are on another grading system) before people can judge them as being a good or bad fit with a team...
On a deep team like this year's Spurs, Barry will get less minutes because of his known defensive defficiencies but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the opportunity to prove himself when it counts. Maybe Parker's absence will give him the minutes he needs to prove to Pop, Duncan and himself that he can stroke it from distance....
Come on people.... we're only 1 quarter into a season in which the Spurs have already overacheived (relative to their historical bad starts) so Barry is not the scape goat of anything just yet. Barry hasn't really been needed that much but that won't mean we won't need him... I know Brown is playing exceptionally well (outplaying Barry for minutes) but we all saw what the lack of experience can do to a player in the clutch moments of a game.... and check this, Pop hasn't given Barry much time in the closing moments of close games. In one of his few 4th quarter-non-garbage-time appearances he knocked down two clutch free-throws to put the Pistons down for good.
Barry if you're reading this, count to 10 and settle down.
settle down
settle down
settle down
settle down.... there... feel better?
Maybe the shaggy haircut has to go.... some players need to throw away a bad streak by shaving their hair, their goatees or simply trying another facial hair style...
I wouldn't trade this sniper. Unless the other team gave me Ray Allen in return...
sheesh...its not even Christmas yet...If Parker misses Wednesday Barry should get some solid minutes...and I expect him to take advantage of the time...I expect a lot of you guys to be in here Thursday all over Barrys jock like everyone used to do about wanting more minutes for Steve Kerr...
No kidding, Barry is an artist in the open court. But, we can't let him play because we might give up 81 points again and lose.
Injuries to opponents' key players was the biggest reason for the Spurs' inflated record.there's a reason we rolled over teams so early in the season and IMO Barry was the biggest reason why.
I must admit I am finding it troubling that guys like Barry aren't getting acclimated, Manu is starting to think its normal to score 2pts in games reguarly and that its OK as long as he plays hard D and the team is winning. Also Parker can do the same at times. Sometimes both Parker and Manu get in that mode.
It's fine that the team is defensive oriented, and has guys who can step up like Devin Brown, Malik Rose, and even Bruce Bowen (against Cavs).
But ultimately Parker, Ginobili, and Barry need to get in an offensive comfort zone. I know Manu is probably tired, and Barry is struggling. But at some point, they are just going to have to 'click'. Maybe it won't happen till later in the season, but I am hoping it happens sooner than later.
Maybe Parker and Ginobili need more help from Barry, who knows? But we do know Duncan can get his points whether other guys are hot or not.
It's up to the main guards to pony up, and start bringing consistency. I don't know if its the system, their inabilites to score, or if they are tired -- but somehow it has to be resolved, or the shaky fourth quarters might ensue.
Houston was a series of stupid mistakes -- big deal. If nothing else it gave Devin Brown experience he needs if Barry is going to continue to suck and not play.Houston and Detroit were injured too.
Which Piston was injured? Smush Parker?
Derrick Coleman was injured, Mcdyess went down in that game, and Wallace was returning from a 5 game layoff...it's not like Detroit hasn't been getting it's ass kicked since...
and it's not like Houston hasn't either...
The Houston game was an offensive meltdown of the highest order...
Don't ing tell me that Pop coached teams don't melt in the ing second halves and 4th quarters...
Watch a ing playoff game sometime.
4 fourth quarter double digit leads against the Lakers in 02...dozens of them in 03. The Mavs beat us if Duncan doesn't get Kerr off the bench in that series.
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