Charania: Spurs Have Exploratory Interest In Murray

[Mugen]

Trade for Dejounte and let him ball out for a few more seasons. Then trade him again for Trae

[RC_Drunkford]

even if we draft a PG like Topic or Dillingham, it will take them at least 3 years to be above average starters. I'd much rather have Murray starting while one of them comes off the bench and if he turns into an All-Star slide Murray to the 2 and Vassell to the 3 or make a trade. Also if you have the team set, draft someone like Risacher for the SF spot and he can start on a team that functions where he can focus on 3-and-D. This team has to realize Wemby's championship window starts as soon as next season and by the 25/26 season you want to have a real chance at ringing.

[exstatic]

I think the assessment that their owner is a cheap is spot on. They probably wouldn’t want either Vassell’s or even Keldon’s contract. Cedi and Devonte, plus some combination of picks gives them relief of all but $2.5M of Dejounte’s first year extension, and 100% of the rest of it.

[Davidicus]

To add on other poster's points:

Free agency is where you beat the system of draft picks and trades. We aren't adding FA's soley because we have Wemby; we have to show experienced FAs that they can win here (Manu: "Once people understand the potential, then you can add other pieces from free agency"). It's essentially the Lakers' strategy: trade draft picks for good players, that will in turn attract more good players, so 1+1=3.

If we use every single FRP and wait to be compe ive in 2027, that means the FAs don't come until 2028. Not exact dates, but you get my point. There is an exponential effect here in terms of timeline + talent acquisition that cannot be ignored when you have Wemby doing what he's doing right now.

[scott]

Why would you be giving an unprotected pick for a mediocre player, who’s proven he’s not a difference maker? Who are you bidding against? Because it seems you’re bidding with the original DJ trade in mind and this is just wrong.

My personal opinion is that DJM's value is currently approximately 1/2 of what ATL paid for him, thus that is the basis of what I'd offer. Everyone is of course free to disagree.

[baseline bum]

If the Hawks really wanted Vassell, it would have to be DJM for Devin straight up or Devin + CHI or CHA pick at most.

I think Keldon + TOR pick or a '27 unprotected (or maybe even Top 4 Protected) is probably fair value.

Disagree, Devin for Dejounte straight up is a terrible deal for the Spurs. Keldon for Dejounte straight up is what I'd pay if they want a player now who would be a better fit for them. They can have the Charlotte pick back too if they need something to save face.

[scott]

If you swapped 27 for 25, you should only give them the lesser pick, virtually making it a swap in our favor.

I like that from the Spurs POV, but I'm not sure that gets the deal done (which is why I'd offer our pick over the ATL pick). But if they'd take the lesser, than yeah I'm down.

[exstatic]

My personal opinion is that DJM's value is currently approximately 1/2 of what ATL paid for him, thus that is the basis of what I'd offer. Everyone is of course free to disagree.

Keep: 2025 unprotected, 2026 unp swap
Return: CHA FRP, 2027 unprotected

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

My personal opinion is that DJM's value is currently approximately 1/2 of what ATL paid for him, thus that is the basis of what I'd offer. Everyone is of course free to disagree.

Yeah I saw your post about Vassell and picks for Murray. We have completely different opinions on DJ’s value.

My point was you still seem to refer to his original deal when perhaps you should care about who you’re bidding against right now and I don’t see anyone giving Atlanta an unprotected pick, nor do I expect them to take a pick heavy offer. They’ll look for players to shake things up because they can’t afford to tank. Spurs is the only team that can afford them that by trading their own picks back, which is probably why this rumour is out in the first place.

[scott]

Disagree, Devin for Dejounte straight up is a terrible deal for the Spurs. Keldon for Dejounte straight up is what I'd pay if they want a player now who would be a better fit for them. They can have the Charlotte pick back too if they need something to save face.

From the Spurs POV, they might value Devin over DJM, but I think DJM is a better player right now with more value around the league. Could be wrong about that, but that's my perspective on why the trade would have to work that way.

I'm not actually suggesting we give up Devin though. He's been frustrating this season because of his decision making, but I think he's forced into it by the lack of a PG or basic offensive structure. I'd like to see what he can do with his current skillset if he had a real team around him.

[buttsR4rebounding]

Keep: 2025 unprotected, 2026 unp swap
Return: CHA FRP, 2027 unprotected

That would be significantly less than 1/2 value. You'd probably have to add something like the Chicago pick or a lightly protected Spurs pick in 27 or 28 which I would definitely do.

[scott]

Yeah I saw your post about Vassell and picks for Murray. We have completely different opinions on DJ’s value.

My point was you still seem to refer to his original deal when perhaps you should care about who you’re bidding against right now and I don’t see anyone giving Atlanta an unprotected pick, nor do I expect them to take a pick heavy offer. They’ll look for players to shake things up because they can’t afford to tank. Spurs is the only team that can afford them that by trading their own picks back, which is probably why this rumour is out in the first place.

The Spurs don't have any players of value to send back to ATL, other than guys who are (or should be) off-limits, so picks is the only currency we have to compete in this trade. One unprotected FRP in 27 and one of our less valuable protected FRPs is the value that 1) I'd be willing to give up and 2) puts us over the top.

You're free to disagree, but this is what answers your question of "why"

[mo7888]

I like that from the Spurs POV, but I'm not sure that gets the deal done (which is why I'd offer our pick over the ATL pick). But if they'd take the lesser, than yeah I'm down.

I'd like DJ back, but not enough to risk the top pick in 25. I'd do 27 like ex suggests, but they can pound sand if they think they're getting potentially the better pick in 25 or 26.

[exstatic]

That would be significantly less than 1/2 value. You'd probably have to add something like the Chicago pick or a lightly protected Spurs pick in 27 or 28 which I would definitely do.

Read a pretty good analysis of swaps, and while you might strike gold, they are not used very often, and have about the value of a SRP. The CHA pick, despite the fact that it’s lottery protected and may convert to 2 SRPs, holds more value.

[spurraider21]

From the Spurs POV, they might value Devin over DJM, but I think DJM is a better player right now with more value around the league. Could be wrong about that, but that's my perspective on why the trade would have to work that way.

I'm not actually suggesting we give up Devin though. He's been frustrating this season because of his decision making, but I think he's forced into it by the lack of a PG or basic offensive structure. I'd like to see what he can do with his current skillset if he had a real team around him.

they both signed extensions in the same offseason

vassell signed for 5/135 and murray signed for 4/114

murray's deal is slightly more expensive per year, but was also widely seen as him taking a discount by opting for the extension instead of waiting for free agency

[cd98]

Would you rather have White or Murray back?

[baseline bum]

From the Spurs POV, they might value Devin over DJM, but I think DJM is a better player right now with more value around the league. Could be wrong about that, but that's my perspective on why the trade would have to work that way.

I'm not actually suggesting we give up Devin though. He's been frustrating this season because of his decision making, but I think he's forced into it by the lack of a PG or basic offensive structure. I'd like to see what he can do with his current skillset if he had a real team around him.

Another thing you gotta factor in with an Atlanta trade is the Spurs would be giving up draft position with the Atlanta picks by trading them a good player like Devin or Keldon. If the Hawks are looking at trades centered around Grimes or Hachimura Spurs could just sit back and let the lotto balls come in from Atlanta.

[scott]

I'd like DJ back, but not enough to risk the top pick in 25. I'd do 27 like ex suggests, but they can pound sand if they think they're getting potentially the better pick in 25 or 26.

I agree, that is what I am suggesting, trading out the '25 pick (meaning we keep it) and instead giving them '27. To me, unprotected '25 picks are off the table.

[vy65]

Curious what people think the actual chances are of a deal getting done. I’d think they’d be >50% considering fit, need, and ability to put a compe ive package together. So for this front office, I’d put the chances of actually getting this done at below 20%

[Davidicus]

DJ is not the defender he once was. Not even close. Watch the next hawks game

I will. Quick search around the internet mentions perhaps playing alongside Tre, fans complaining about ATL defensive gameplans / coaching, and overall defensive intensity on ATL squad. I’m skeptical that’s it’s actually physical, he’s still only 27 years old.

I watched the Hawks' 2 most recent games against Orlando and Indiana. I'd recommend anyone with NBA TV go watch the Indiana game, where DJM scored 30 in 34min and guarded Haliburton for some stretches.

Offensively:
- He looks much more confident in his shots, including his 3. His 3pt %s are reflected in that: this year a career high 38.4% on 6 attempts/gm. Thats a 5.7% jump with 1.7 more attempt/gm compared to his last year in SA.
- He still makes some downright nasty plays with his combination of lateral bursts, length, and finishing.
- Contrary to certain posters, he does in fact pass the ball. Good vision, and the passes are fast and sharp.
- Contrary to certain posters, he is not a ball hog. It's just that his whole career he's had a length advantage, and is not afraid to use that advantage. Sounds like someone we know? Him + Wemby on PnR would be downright scary close the the basket. You can't leave Wemby 1:1, so Dejounte would have space and height.

Defensively:
- I don't know if it was too small a sample size, but he looks the same guys. He was never a lockdown 1-1 defender. He uses his length to make up for initial lateral quickness on ball, and his steals are pick pocket / off ball. He does not look like he's lost a step, at the ripe old age of 27.
- Felt like most of the time the opposing team was either switching him off or flat out avoiding him.
- He's 0.5 stl/game down compared to SA totals, I'd definitely chalk that up to team defense / mentality.
- Overall I think any perceived defensive drop is due to being on ATL, where they try to out-shoot everybody. They just don't value defense as much. I think he'd snap right back into place in SA with Pop on him, not to mention Wemby behind him.

[scott]

they both signed extensions in the same offseason

vassell signed for 5/135 and murray signed for 4/114

murray's deal is slightly more expensive per year, but was also widely seen as him taking a discount by opting for the extension instead of waiting for free agency

Yeah, this seems to support my thinking that DJM is considered the better player and more valued today. Vassell could most certainly eclipse Murray over time though - but only if the Spurs improve. If they stay in CHA perma-tank mode, then Vassell is going to be viewed as about as valuable as Terry Rozier.

[vy65]

An unappreciated potential aspect of this deal is the potential to bring Patty back. I worry about DJM culturally, but Patty would go a long way to smoothing that over and building another connection back to the days of the big 3. I don’t imagine he’s getting much burn in ATL and would be an upgrade over McDermott

[scott]

I watched the Hawks' 2 most recent games against Orlando and Indiana. I'd recommend anyone with NBA TV go watch the Indiana game, where DJM scored 30 in 34min and guarded Haliburton for some stretches.

Offensively:
- He looks much more confident in his shots, including his 3. His 3pt %s are reflected in that: this year a career high 38.4% on 6 attempts/gm. Thats a 5.7% jump with 1.7 more attempt/gm compared to his last year in SA.
- He still makes some downright nasty plays with his combination of lateral bursts, length, and finishing.
- Contrary to certain posters, he does in fact pass the ball. Good vision, and the passes are fast and sharp.
- Contrary to certain posters, he is not a ball hog. It's just that his whole career he's had a length advantage, and is not afraid to use that advantage. Sounds like someone we know? Him + Wemby on PnR would be downright scary close the the basket. You can't leave Wemby 1:1, so Dejounte would have space and height.

Defensively:
- I don't know if it was too small a sample size, but he looks the same guys. He was never a lockdown 1-1 defender. He uses his length to make up for initial lateral quickness on ball, and his steals are pick pocket / off ball. He does not look like he's lost a step, at the ripe old age of 27.
- Felt like most of the time the opposing team was either switching him off or flat out avoiding him.
- He's 0.5 stl/game down compared to SA totals, I'd definitely chalk that up to team defense / mentality.
- Overall I think any perceived defensive drop is due to being on ATL, where they try to out-shoot everybody. They just don't value defense as much. I think he'd snap right back into place in SA with Pop on him, not to mention Wemby behind him.

I'd also be curious if the defensive assignments he is tasked with as SG in ATL are different than those as the PG in SA. He has the disadvantage of being the guard opposite of a defensive liability in Tre versus being opposite of Devin who is more capable on D.

[Davidicus]

Another thing you gotta factor in with an Atlanta trade is the Spurs would be giving up draft position with the Atlanta picks by trading them a good player like Devin or Keldon. If the Hawks are looking at trades centered around Grimes or Hachimura Spurs could just sit back and let the lotto balls come in from Atlanta.

I disagree. For one, Vassell and Wemby are untouchable. Anyone else (Keldon really - Sochan just not a good fit) could give ATL a short-term boost, but I don't see them greatly increasing their compe iveness into 2025 and drops off 26 and 27. The goal is Atlanta keeps fighting the next couple of years and then craters with Trae ready to move on.

[Davidicus]

I'd also be curious if the defensive assignments he is tasked with as SG in ATL are different than those as the PG in SA. He has the disadvantage of being the guard opposite of a defensive liability in Tre versus being opposite of Devin who is more capable on D.

Yes, this definitely is a large factor. Trae is averaging 36min/game, thats #8 in the league. Guess who's guarding the better player on defense? Lol