Slomo
08-21-2008, 11:22 AM
Solid I'll reply to you in here, because I don't want to hijack an otherwise funny thread in the Spurs forum.
poland why do you hate america? aren't we just sign an agreement to build a missile defense system in your country and promise to protect you guys? is this the general consensus of polish people or are you one of few who feel this way?
Not to derail this entertaining thread, but you do understand that the system the US will build is designed to protect the USA not Poland. Poland will get some missile system and other weapons as payment for it though.
The USA has never (and never will) spend billions abroad for anybody's else's benefit but its own. There's nothing wrong with that. I just wish politicians and spin artist on both sides of the issue would be honest about it and stop treating us as idiots.
From a defense stand-point, you are probably correct.
If you look at the multiple billions of dollars the USA has poured into Africa for food and drought relief and the tens of billions the USA writes off in debt incurred by poor, highly indebted countries...as do G8 countries and others, there must be a mutual benefit, to some degree.
Of course, there are millions of dollars for poverty or disaster reasons sent out of compassion by individuals, churches and non-profit groups where the US government does not get involved. The USA is still governed and supported by humans with compassion. Unfortunately, Slomo, your point is well-taken, and "what's in it for us" is typically in the mix politically, but...giving to the poor out of love for others is still a principle taught and practiced here, from the roots-up.
I do have a much more cynical opinion of donations and non-profit groups in general having had the dubious honor to be involved in the rebuilding of a few war torn countries (by that I mean that I have been hired by those organizations to do work on their behalf). But even my criticism can only be directed at the organizations and not the compassionate individuals who donate with good intentions (and of which there are apparently still a lot - and not only in the US). So whatever my opinion of that help is I will freely admit that it does help and often in areas where even the most modest help goes a very long way.
As for your government's action, I will repeat that there is nothing wrong with looking out for itself and its citizens (it's pretty much in their job description). I just ask them not to insult my intelligence and stop trying to convince me how it's being done for my benefit. The politics of individual countries (no the US is not the only asshole around :wow) disturb me much less than the lies they use to achieve those politics.
And finally before I get off my high horse. No I don't have a better solution to humanitarian help. Some churches do a better job than the non-profit orgs (emphasis on "some"). Do your homework, do not just donate money, food, goods but also make the organizations you use accountable for where it all goes.
poland why do you hate america? aren't we just sign an agreement to build a missile defense system in your country and promise to protect you guys? is this the general consensus of polish people or are you one of few who feel this way?
Not to derail this entertaining thread, but you do understand that the system the US will build is designed to protect the USA not Poland. Poland will get some missile system and other weapons as payment for it though.
The USA has never (and never will) spend billions abroad for anybody's else's benefit but its own. There's nothing wrong with that. I just wish politicians and spin artist on both sides of the issue would be honest about it and stop treating us as idiots.
From a defense stand-point, you are probably correct.
If you look at the multiple billions of dollars the USA has poured into Africa for food and drought relief and the tens of billions the USA writes off in debt incurred by poor, highly indebted countries...as do G8 countries and others, there must be a mutual benefit, to some degree.
Of course, there are millions of dollars for poverty or disaster reasons sent out of compassion by individuals, churches and non-profit groups where the US government does not get involved. The USA is still governed and supported by humans with compassion. Unfortunately, Slomo, your point is well-taken, and "what's in it for us" is typically in the mix politically, but...giving to the poor out of love for others is still a principle taught and practiced here, from the roots-up.
I do have a much more cynical opinion of donations and non-profit groups in general having had the dubious honor to be involved in the rebuilding of a few war torn countries (by that I mean that I have been hired by those organizations to do work on their behalf). But even my criticism can only be directed at the organizations and not the compassionate individuals who donate with good intentions (and of which there are apparently still a lot - and not only in the US). So whatever my opinion of that help is I will freely admit that it does help and often in areas where even the most modest help goes a very long way.
As for your government's action, I will repeat that there is nothing wrong with looking out for itself and its citizens (it's pretty much in their job description). I just ask them not to insult my intelligence and stop trying to convince me how it's being done for my benefit. The politics of individual countries (no the US is not the only asshole around :wow) disturb me much less than the lies they use to achieve those politics.
And finally before I get off my high horse. No I don't have a better solution to humanitarian help. Some churches do a better job than the non-profit orgs (emphasis on "some"). Do your homework, do not just donate money, food, goods but also make the organizations you use accountable for where it all goes.