US missile shield in Poland and other international "help"

[Slomo]

Solid I'll reply to you in here, because I don't want to hijack an otherwise funny thread in the Spurs forum.

poland why do you hate america? aren't we just sign an agreement to build a missile defense system in your country and promise to protect you guys? is this the general consensus of polish people or are you one of few who feel this way?

Not to derail this entertaining thread, but you do understand that the system the US will build is designed to protect the USA not Poland. Poland will get some missile system and other weapons as payment for it though.

The USA has never (and never will) spend billions abroad for anybody's else's benefit but its own. There's nothing wrong with that. I just wish politicians and spin artist on both sides of the issue would be honest about it and stop treating us as idiots.

From a defense stand-point, you are probably correct.

If you look at the multiple billions of dollars the USA has poured into Africa for food and drought relief and the tens of billions the USA writes off in debt incurred by poor, highly indebted countries...as do G8 countries and others, there must be a mutual benefit, to some degree.

Of course, there are millions of dollars for poverty or disaster reasons sent out of compassion by individuals, churches and non-profit groups where the US government does not get involved. The USA is still governed and supported by humans with compassion. Unfortunately, Slomo, your point is well-taken, and "what's in it for us" is typically in the mix politically, but...giving to the poor out of love for others is still a principle taught and practiced here, from the roots-up.

I do have a much more cynical opinion of donations and non-profit groups in general having had the dubious honor to be involved in the rebuilding of a few war torn countries (by that I mean that I have been hired by those organizations to do work on their behalf). But even my criticism can only be directed at the organizations and not the compassionate individuals who donate with good intentions (and of which there are apparently still a lot - and not only in the US). So whatever my opinion of that help is I will freely admit that it does help and often in areas where even the most modest help goes a very long way.

As for your government's action, I will repeat that there is nothing wrong with looking out for itself and its citizens (it's pretty much in their job description). I just ask them not to insult my intelligence and stop trying to convince me how it's being done for my benefit. The politics of individual countries (no the US is not the only asshole around ) disturb me much less than the lies they use to achieve those politics.

And finally before I get off my high horse. No I don't have a better solution to humanitarian help. Some churches do a better job than the non-profit orgs (emphasis on "some"). Do your homework, do not just donate money, food, goods but also make the organizations you use accountable for where it all goes.

[Solid D]

And finally before I get off my high horse. No I don't have a better solution to humanitarian help. Some churches do a better job than the non-profit orgs (emphasis on "some"). Do your homework, do not just donate money, food, goods but also make the organizations you use accountable for where it all goes.

Yes, I agree. Doing the homework is very important indeed. From my experience, complete distribution (not partial) is a concern, and proper delivery to the intended people in need is difficult to ensure. Sending monies or goods with someone you trust isn't always an option.

[Slomo]

Yes, I agree. Doing the homework is very important indeed. From my experience, complete distribution (not partial) is a concern, and proper delivery to the intended people in need is difficult to ensure. Sending monies or goods with someone you trust isn't always an option.

Complete distribution is impossible (at least I haven't seen it yet) at this point I'll settle for an organization (religious or other) that covers its costs and is also careful about those costs. I have seen people and organizations actually getting rich off humanitarian help.

I'm a big critic of the Roman Catholic church, but I must say their Caritas organization is quite efficient in getting a large portion of the donations to its destination. Of course this is tainted by the fact that they reserve the right to decide who is and isn't en led to their help based on their own religious beliefs... (ie they refuse to deliver free condoms in AIDS ravaged central African countries despite requests by their own missionaries)

[spurster]

What do you think of United Way? I know they've had some bigwigs in scandals, but they still have/claim a low overhead.

[Slomo]

Don't know them.

[mavs>spurs2]

I thought I read that part of the missile shield agreement was that we promised to protect Polish soil from attack? I haven't read but a couple of stories about it on CNN, so I'm not taking that as fact I'm just asking for an answer.

[Jame Gumb]

I feel bad for Slomo...............If only you wasn't a Moderator.................

[Slomo]

I thought I read that part of the missile shield agreement was that we promised to protect Polish soil from attack? I haven't read but a couple of stories about it on CNN, so I'm not taking that as fact I'm just asking for an answer.

The agreement is Poland allows the deployment of the shield on its soil for which it will receive "payment". The payment includes among others the Patriot missile system and other stuff.

Poland is a NATO member so under the NATO charter the US is already bound to help Poland in case of attack.

Having a US military base on its soil brings a certain level of security (the US will defend its installation more fiercely) and attackers will think twice before going into a country where the US has strategic interest.

It also makes it a better candidate for terrorist attacks and of course a prime target in case of a serious confrotation.

So it's sort of a damned if you do and damned if you don't kinda deal for Poland.

It is a clear advantage for the US though. If it wasn't primarily advantageous to the US security - the US wouldn't be doing it. There's nothing wrong with that (actually it's your government job), just don't try to spin it a a selfless act.

[Slomo]

I feel bad for Slomo...............If only you wasn't a Moderator.................

Since I'm not, you can stop feeling bad for me. I appreciate the thought though.