Chalmers, Arthur caught with marijuana at rookie camp

[Bruno]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3567481

By Chris Broussard
ESPN The Magazine
(Archive)

Updated: September 3, 2008, 2:45 PM ET

Rookies Mario Chalmers of the Miami Heat and Darrell Arthur of the Memphis Grizzlies were thrown out of the NBA's Rookie Transition Program on Wednesday morning after being caught in their hotel room at Doral Arrowwood in Rye Brook, N.Y., with marijuana, according to sources.

"Yes, they were sent home for violating program rules,'' NBA spokesman Brian McIntyre said.

According to a source, the players were also fined $20,000 each and will begin the season on the suspended list. McIntyre would not confirm that, but he said the league will continue to investigate the matter and that appropriate sanctions will take place.

Chalmers and Arthur were both members of last year's NCAA champion Kansas Jayhawks.

[DPG21920]

Rookies

[timvp]

Damn. Maybe RC had some good info on those Jayhawks. If you are dumb enough to try to smoke a little W in a setting where the NBA watches your every move, that doesn't sound like Spurs material.

[coyotes_geek]

Sounds like they're having a hard time coping with George Hill getting drafted ahead of them.

[angel_luv]

Damn. Maybe RC had some good info on those Jayhawks. If you are dumb enough to try to smoke a little W in a setting where the NBA watches your every move, that doesn't sound like Spurs material.

:tu

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

There are rookie mistakes, and then there's just being stupid. Geez.

[urunobili]

:wow

[Spur-Addict]

Legalize it

[sribb43]

Looks like J-Ho has some new buddies in the league

[tlongII]

LMAO at thinking this justifies the Spurs picking Hill! :lol

[Kori Ellis]

The rookie transition program is like 10 days.. they couldn't even hold out til it was over. :lol

[SpursWoman]

Dumbasses.

[koriwhat]

wish i had some bud right now... :(

[ducks]

Damn. Maybe RC had some good info on those Jayhawks. If you are dumb enough to try to smoke a little W in a setting where the NBA watches your every move, that doesn't sound like Spurs material.

I guess some posters owe rc some respect

[DPG21920]

If Chalmers is the next Billups no one will care if he smokes weed.

[DPG21920]

People who smoke weed are not bad people. They showed an obvious error in judgment, but they will learn. It would be no worse than seeing them at the club drinking in the same time frame. It is just a weird sense of drinking being ok and smoking not.

And I do not even smoke or advocate it; just makes no sense.

[DisAsTerBot]

People who smoke weed are not bad people. They showed an obvious error in judgment, but they will learn. It would be no worse than seeing them at the club drinking in the same time frame. It is just a weird sense of drinking being ok and smoking not.

And I do not even smoke or advocate it; just makes no sense.

the dude abides

[DPG21920]

I drink Caucasians man, I don't do j's

[lefty]

Sounds like they're having a hard time coping with George Hill getting drafted ahead of them.

:lmao

[coyotes_geek]

People who smoke weed are not bad people. They showed an obvious error in judgment, but they will learn. It would be no worse than seeing them at the club drinking in the same time frame. It is just a weird sense of drinking being ok and smoking not.

And I do not even smoke or advocate it; just makes no sense.

That wierd sense of drinking being okay and smoking not is exactly the reason why this IS worse than if they had been spotted at a club boozing it up. Forget any health/legal aspects to all this. One activity puts your NBA career at risk, one doesn't.

[tlongII]

At least these guys have a chance at becoming legitimate players in the League.

[koriwhat]

If Chalmers is the next Billups no one will care if he smokes weed.

to be honest with ya...i doubt anyone gives a damn as it is anyhow except the media.

i would lay odds that more then 1/2 the league burns during the season and off season. who gives a shit if they smoke herb? as long as they don't smoke while theyre at practice, during games, or at special events then why should it matter? they don't get handed suspensions for drinking and we all know ballers love to club it up. such hypocrisy in this bs democracy.

you can have a coke head in the white house who drives drunk but you can't have a baller who gets his hops by smoking a little bud. our society is a bunch of pussies!

[timvp]

People who smoke weed are not bad people. They showed an obvious error in judgment, but they will learn. It would be no worse than seeing them at the club drinking in the same time frame. It is just a weird sense of drinking being ok and smoking not.

And I do not even smoke or advocate it; just makes no sense.It's not a matter of legality. It's a matter of stupidity.

In this rookie program, multiple days are set aside to talk about the drug policy, drug use and the such. To listen to that and go back to a room and get your W on is pretty damn dumb. Especially since they have a policy where the program directors have free range to go into the hotel rooms and even conduct drug tests if they are suspicious.

[DPG21920]

That wierd sense of drinking being okay and smoking not is exactly the reason why this IS worse than if they had been spotted at a club boozing it up. Forget any health/legal aspects to all this. One activity puts your NBA career at risk, one doesn't.

Ya, I already said it was an error in judgment. I did not say it was not worse. I said society has this view that drinking is ok and smoking is not. Obviously a dumb decision, but in MY eyes going out and drinking is just as bad, especially to your employer. If you go to a business lunch with your boss and start throwing down shots of Patron, even though it is legal, it can put your career at risk.

Also, this really does not put their careers in jeopardy. Plenty of people get caught and still play. People can go into the stands and beat the crap out of fans and they still play. People can fire guns into crowds at night clubs and still play.

[Bruno]

Both Chalmers and Arthur have slipped a lot during the draft. Arthur was projected at a lottery pick and end up at #28. Chalmers was projected as a first round pick and was picked at #34.
While there was the kidney trouble with Arthur, I wonder if they haven't also slipped because some teams were concerned about their attitude.

And this news doesn't change that if Hill sucks, he would have been a bad draft pick.

[DPG21920]

It's not a matter of legality. It's a matter of stupidity.

In this rookie program, multiple days are set aside to talk about the drug policy, drug use and the such. To listen to that and go back to a room and get your W on is pretty damn dumb. Especially since they have a policy where the program directors have free range to go into the hotel rooms and even conduct drug tests if they are suspicious.

That is exactly what I referred to. I said it was an error in judgment, which implies stupidity. My reference to it being better/worse than drinking was only to say that whether weed is illegal and drinking legal, that they both are frowned upon if you do it at the wrong time. Hence, when I said it would be just as bad if they were caught in the club getting wasted while at the meeting.

[Findog]

The rookie transition program is like 10 days.. they couldn't even hold out til it was over. :lol

I can barely hold out until getting home tonight. I have half a mind to bring a j to work to smoke in the parking garage.

[DPG21920]

to be honest with ya...i doubt anyone gives a damn as it is anyhow except the media.

i would lay odds that more then 1/2 the league burns during the season and off season. who gives a shit if they smoke herb? as long as they don't smoke while theyre at practice, during games, or at special events then why should it matter? they don't get handed suspensions for drinking and we all know ballers love to club it up. such hypocrisy in this bs democracy.

you can have a coke head in the white house who drives drunk but you can't have a baller who gets his hops by smoking a little bud. our society is a bunch of pussies!


That's the problem with this, they got caught at a special event.

[Findog]

I don't get society's hang ups over marijuana. I don't mean to turn this into a pro-legalization thread, but they're not hurting anybody.

[DPG21920]

to be honest with ya...i doubt anyone gives a damn as it is anyhow except the media.


I meant that people on here jumping to the conclusion that R.C. did not draft him because he knew he smoked is just weird. If Chalmers turns out to be a stud and Hill is a bust, then everyone will forget the weed, bust a u-turn and rip R.C. a new one.

[FromWayDowntown]

I still think that it's impossible that R.C. Buford didn't visit with Bill Self (Kansas basketball coach) about players like Chalmers and Arthur before the draft. I think there's some pretty good chance that Self offered Buford some pretty significant concerns about Chalmers and Arthur -- the sort of criticism that a college coach would know about and the sort of things he might only share with a good friend. And, after all, Self and Buford are good friends; so close that Self gave Buford's son a preferred walk-on spot at KU.

For all of the criticisms about missing on Chalmers and Arthur -- and those may still prove to be valid -- the Spurs aren't an organization that skips too many steps and due diligence would seem to be a big part of their processes.

[coyotes_geek]

Ya, I already said it was an error in judgment. I did not say it was not worse. I said society has this view that drinking is ok and smoking is not. Obviously a dumb decision, but in MY eyes going out and drinking is just as bad, especially to your employer. If you go to a business lunch with your boss and start throwing down shots of Patron, even though it is legal, it can put your career at risk.

It's different here though because Chalmers and Arthur's employers are now likely to temporarily lose the services of their players because of something stupid they did, irregardless of any feeling over the dangers of pot compared to the dangers of alcohol. I agree with you that in the grand scheme of life this isn't a big deal. If neither guy gets caught again in the future this incident is probably forgotten by the allstar break, if not sooner. But, if you're a GM who's investing lots of money into Chalmers, Arthur, or any other player who likes to smoke pot, this is a big deal because that player smoking pot is putting that investment at risk.


Also, this really does not put their careers in jeopardy. Plenty of people get caught and still play. People can go into the stands and beat the crap out of fans and they still play. People can fire guns into crowds at night clubs and still play.

No doubt, that's true. As long as you have game, you'll have another chance waiting for you.

[DPG21920]

It's different here though because Chalmers and Arthur's employers are now likely to temporarily lose the services of their players because of something stupid they did, irregardless of any feeling over the dangers of pot compared to the dangers of alcohol. I agree with you that in the grand scheme of life this isn't a big deal. If neither guy gets caught again in the future this incident is probably forgotten by the allstar break, if not sooner. But, if you're a GM who's investing lots of money into Chalmers, Arthur, or any other player who likes to smoke pot, this is a big deal because that player smoking pot is putting that investment at risk.



No doubt, that's true. As long as you have game, you'll have another chance waiting for you.

Which is kind of sad.. But I get what you are saying now. It is different being a superstar that is proven and messing up. You probably won't endanger your career. But to be a rookie who has not played a single minute, that is a much larger risk.

[Solid D]

Due-diligence, my friends. Due-diligence.

[Bruno]

BAMA's members will now say "Spurs should have drafted Donté Greene".

[DPG21920]

I still think that it's impossible that R.C. Buford didn't visit with Bill Self (Kansas basketball coach) about players like Chalmers and Arthur before the draft. I think there's some pretty good chance that Self offered Buford some pretty significant concerns about Chalmers and Arthur -- the sort of criticism that a college coach would know about and the sort of things he might only share with a good friend. And, after all, Self and Buford are good friends; so close that Self gave Buford's son a preferred walk-on spot at KU.

For all of the criticisms about missing on Chalmers and Arthur -- and those may still prove to be valid -- the Spurs aren't an organization that skips too many steps and due diligence would seem to be a big part of their processes.

I agree. I am not saying that R.C. did not put in the time for proper due diligence, I am just saying if the kid was really good I do not think they would have passed because of this. They must of really liked Hill to take him. I do not think they picked Hill over Chalmers or Arthur because of attitude, just because they liked him, thats all.

[DPG21920]

BAMA's members will now say "Spurs should have drafted Donté Greene".

Donte Greene has Lamar Odom written all over him. Which would not be a bad haul from the draft.

[tlongII]

I still think that it's impossible that R.C. Buford didn't visit with Bill Self (Kansas basketball coach) about players like Chalmers and Arthur before the draft. I think there's some pretty good chance that Self offered Buford some pretty significant concerns about Chalmers and Arthur -- the sort of criticism that a college coach would know about and the sort of things he might only share with a good friend. And, after all, Self and Buford are good friends; so close that Self gave Buford's son a preferred walk-on spot at KU.

For all of the criticisms about missing on Chalmers and Arthur -- and those may still prove to be valid -- the Spurs aren't an organization that skips too many steps and due diligence would seem to be a big part of their processes.

[tlongII]

I would say that the evidence over the last 6 or 7 years would argue otherwise. If they are so into due diligence you would think that they could have drafted somebody that could contribute to the team.

[midgetonadonkey]

At one point I was a bigger weed head than everybody in this place and I don't think there is anything wrong with burning but I was never offered a multimillion dollar contract to play a game. If I had been an athlete and about to get paid millions, I would gladly put away the sack for a good decade to earn my pay and do what it takes to be the best. Smoking weed at a rookie camp is just stupid and just shows bad character.

[Mitch Cumsteen]

This is hilarious. Now they will have to attend the session again next season. What a brilliant policy -- the guys who violate the rules at a seminar about the dangers of drugs and women in the NBA life are immediately sent home and denied the counseling that they obviously are in need of most.

[DPG21920]

I would say that the evidence over the last 6 or 7 years would argue otherwise. If they are so into due diligence you would think that they could have drafted somebody that could contribute to the team.

How are you supposed to just pull rabbits out of a hat? When your team is constantly picking in the end of the 1st and the second rounds there is not much there. Odds are against what you are saying because the vast majority of picks in that region only last in the league for 3 years or less. That is not much contribution.

The Spurs have draft picks that take time and will/have helped. They are forced to do much of their player additions through free agency. The players they draft do help in many ways and they way the go about the draft has helped them win. They have a combination of players who come in and help win titles (Manu, Tim, Robinson, Parker), they have players they draft that can fill in later down the road (Splitter, Mahinmi) and they develop them in Europe so they do not take up roster spots, which frees them up to sign the crucial FA's that help them win titles.

[Ginobilly]

How did they know they had bud?? Did they show up to camp smelling like weed and with their eyes red as the devils dick? Pendejos! George Hill probably snitched them out..:lol

[phxspurfan]

And this news doesn't change that if Hill sucks, he would have been a bad draft pick.

Read: Why didn't they go for CDR?

[manufor3]

People who smoke weed are not bad people. They showed an obvious error in judgment, but they will learn. It would be no worse than seeing them at the club drinking in the same time frame. It is just a weird sense of drinking being ok and smoking not.

And I do not even smoke or advocate it; just makes no sense.

:tu +1

[Ronaldo McDonald]

They weren't drafted high in the traditional sense of the word.

[Kori Ellis]

It would be no worse than seeing them at the club drinking in the same time frame. It is just a weird sense of drinking being ok and smoking not.

Weed is against the law and against the rules of the league. Drinking isn't. That's the difference.

I'm not saying weed should or shouldn't be legal. I'm saying currently it's illegal and currently it's against the rules of the league. So it's not the same as being seen at a club drinking, (except Arthur who I don't think is 21 yet).

[DPG21920]

Weed is against the law and against the rules of the league. Drinking isn't. That's the difference.

I'm not saying weed should or shouldn't be legal. I'm saying currently it's illegal and currently it's against the rules of the league. So it's not the same as being seen at a club drinking, (except Arthur who I don't think is 21 yet).

It is not the same in a legal sense, but it is in the eye's of an employer. Do you think that if reports came out that they were drinking during the seminar in their rooms right before the meetings and showing up drunk that people would not care because it is legal?

[Kori Ellis]

It is not the same in a legal sense, but it is in the eye's of an employer. Do you think that if reports came out that they were drinking during the seminar in their rooms right before the meetings and showing up drunk that people would not care because it is legal?

Showed up drunk to meetings? Or were seen at a club drinking? That's a big difference.

Your first post said it's the same as beeing seen at a club drinking. Now you are changing the scenario. Being seen at a night club drinking in the evening - I don't think anyone cares. Drinking in their hotel room and coming to a seminar drunk - yes, I think people care.

[Obstructed_View]

When millions of dollars are at stake and you are attending the first orientation session of your NBA career, taking doobage* with you is just stupid, legal or not.

*Yes, I'm that old, and yes it's been that long.

[tlongII]

How are you supposed to just pull rabbits out of a hat? When your team is constantly picking in the end of the 1st and the second rounds there is not much there. Odds are against what you are saying because the vast majority of picks in that region only last in the league for 3 years or less. That is not much contribution.

The Spurs have draft picks that take time and will/have helped. They are forced to do much of their player additions through free agency. The players they draft do help in many ways and they way the go about the draft has helped them win. They have a combination of players who come in and help win titles (Manu, Tim, Robinson, Parker), they have players they draft that can fill in later down the road (Splitter, Mahinmi) and they develop them in Europe so they do not take up roster spots, which frees them up to sign the crucial FA's that help them win titles.

Ginobili and Parker are the most recent players the Spurs have acquired through the draft that have contributed to the team and they were picked 7 years ago I believe. I realize they pick late in the draft, but I believe they should have been able to pick somebody within the last 7 years that could contribute. We'll never know about Splitter since he bolted, but it's clear to me that Mahinmi won't amount to anything. That doesn't sound like due diligence to me.

[DPG21920]

Showed up drunk to meetings? Or were seen at a club drinking? That's a big difference.

Your first post said it's the same as beeing seen at a club drinking. Now you are changing the scenario.

I already defined what I meant by saying it would be just as bad seeing them at the club. I was speaking from their employers viewpoint. If these rookies were at the meetings for drug and alcohol for 10 days and were seen getting wasted at the clubs on a nightly basis and showing up to the meeting hung over that would leave a bad impression. It would show their level of judgment and focus.

[DPG21920]

Ginobili and Parker are the most recent players the Spurs have acquired through the draft that have contributed to the team and they were picked 7 years ago I believe. I realize they pick late in the draft, but I believe they should have been able to pick somebody within the last 7 years that could contribute. We'll never know about Splitter since he bolted, but it's clear to me that Mahinmi won't amount to anything. That doesn't sound like due diligence to me.

Who has Portland drafted in the past 5 years that has "contributed"? If you define contributing as being on the team and just playing, then Portland has done better. If you are talking about playing meaningful minutes and making the playoffs, and having a legit chance to win a title, then Portland<<<<<<<<Spurs

[Kori Ellis]

I already defined what I meant by saying it would be just as bad seeing them at the club. I was speaking from their employers viewpoint. If these rookies were at the meetings for drug and alcohol for 10 days and were seen getting wasted at the clubs on a nightly basis and showing up to the meeting hung over that would leave a bad impression. It would show their level of judgment and focus.

Again - you are changing the scenario to make your point... "Getting wasted at clubs on a nightly basis and showing up to meeting hung over" or getting sloshed in their hotel rooms and showing up drunk is completely different than just being seen at a night club drinking .. which is what you originally said.

Anyway, it's dumb as hell to smoke weed during rookie orientation camp when you are set to embark on a potentially multi-million dollar career especially when:

1) You are drug tested when you go to rookie orientation
2) Weed is illegal
3) Weed is against the rules of the league
4) Several days are spent there talking about the dangers of drugs

It shows incredibly poor judgement and it wouldn't be the same at all as going to a nightclub and drinking.

[DPG21920]

Again - you are changing the scenario to make your point... "Getting wasted at clubs on a nightly basis and showing up to meeting hung over" or getting sloshed in their hotel rooms and showing up drunk is completely different than just being seen at a night club drinking .. which is what you originally said.

Anyway, it's dumb as hell to smoke weed during rookie orientation camp when you are set to embark on a potentially multi-million dollar career especially when:

1) You are drug tested when you go to rookie orientation
2) Weed is illegal
3) Weed is against the rules of the league
4) Several days are spent there talking about the dangers of drugs

It shows incredibly poor judgement and it wouldn't be the same at all as going to a nightclub and drinking.

I agree it is stupid to smoke weed, especially in this scenario. You keep focusing on the scenario "changing" and not the point. They should not be going out and drinking or smoking weed, whether or not one is legal and the other is illegal.

If you can not go to meetings about drug and alcohol for your career without doing either, you do not have good judgment and your employer will see that. Is it a big deal if you have talent, no. But if you are a rookie and on the cusp it would not be wise.

Let me outline a scenario I brought up earlier. If your boss takes you lunch, and you order 2 shots of Patron will that reflect well on you? You will not be doing anything illegal, you will not be drunk, but you will create a perception. That goes along with the point I was making about going out to the clubs. So what if I added on to the scenario to make a point? One is legal and one is not right?

[tlongII]

Who has Portland drafted in the past 5 years that has "contributed"? If you define contributing as being on the team and just playing, then Portland has done better. If you are talking about playing meaningful minutes and making the playoffs, and having a legit chance to win a title, then Portland<<<<<<<<Spurs

Huh? That post makes no sense at all. The Spurs success is directly attributable to Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili. Players that were drafted 7 or more years ago. During the last few years the Blazers have been able to acquire Sergio Rodriquez and Rudy Fernandez who were late draft picks. I believe both of these players could make a positive impact with the Spurs.

[Kori Ellis]

I agree it is stupid to smoke weed, especially in this scenario. You keep focusing on the scenario "changing" and not the point. They should not be going out and drinking or smoking weed, whether or not one is legal and the other is illegal.

If you can not go to meetings about drug and alcohol for your career without doing either, you do not have good judgment and your employer will see that. Is it a big deal if you have talent, no. But if you are a rookie and on the cusp it would not be wise.

Let me outline a scenario I brought up earlier. If your boss takes you lunch, and you order 2 shots of Patron will that look reflect well on you? You will not be doing anything illegal, you will not be drunk, but you will create a perception. That goes along with the point I was making about going out to the clubs. So what if I added on to the scenario to make a point? One is legal and one is not right?


Well I don't think anyone cares if they go out and have a couple drinks at a night club in the evening during their time at the orientation. I don't think that reflects on them poorly at all if they are old enough to drink. It's not against the league rules and as long as they aren't sloshed, obnoxious, hung over etc at the meetings the next day - who cares?

The reason weed is different than that is because it's against the rules of the league.

And drinking with your boss at lunch is again, very different than going out in the evening with friends for a couple drinks.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

I agree it is stupid to smoke weed, especially in this scenario. You keep focusing on the scenario "changing" and not the point. They should not be going out and drinking or smoking weed, whether or not one is legal and the other is illegal.

If you can not go to meetings about drug and alcohol for your career without doing either, you do not have good judgment and your employer will see that. Is it a big deal if you have talent, no. But if you are a rookie and on the cusp it would not be wise.

Let me outline a scenario I brought up earlier. If your boss takes you lunch, and you order 2 shots of Patron will that reflect well on you? You will not be doing anything illegal, you will not be drunk, but you will create a perception. That goes along with the point I was making about going out to the clubs. So what if I added on to the scenario to make a point? One is legal and one is not right?

Are you High?

[DPG21920]

Huh? That post makes no sense at all. The Spurs success is directly attributable to Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili. Players that were drafted 7 or more years ago. During the last few years the Blazers have been able to acquire Sergio Rodriquez and Rudy Fernandez who were late draft picks. I believe both of these players could make a positive impact with the Spurs.

It makes perfect sense. The Spurs still have players on their team that they drafted that are contributing to winning titles. The Blazer have drafted no one that has even led them into the playoffs in 5 years. Rudy and Sergio have proven nothing, so you do not know if they can help. Could they, sure, but you do not know. How can you count out Mahinmi and Hill but throw out Sergio and Rudy?

The point I was making with the Blazer scenario is that almost no teams draft guys late that come in and help. Ya the Blazers have drafted Rudy and Sergio, but they have not done anything yet. Just like the Spurs draft picks.

[Ronaldo McDonald]

Should and shouldn't is different than can a cannot. You are arguing an entirely different thing.

[DPG21920]

Well I don't think anyone cares if they go out and have a couple drinks at a night club in the evening during their time at the orientation. I don't think that reflects on them poorly at all if they are old enough to drink. It's not against the league rules and as long as they aren't sloshed, obnoxious, hung over etc at the meetings the next day - who cares?

The reason weed is different than that is because it's against the rules of the league.

And drinking with your boss at lunch is again, very different than going out in the evening with friends for a couple drinks.

I get what you are saying. I already said it was stupid what they did. I know it is against league rules, and illegal. They are not going to hurt their careers by doing this though. I was just saying that it might not reflect well on them if they are going out to the clubs. Thats all. I do not have personal problem with it. I would just think that no one wants to hear about that stuff either way.

[Kori Ellis]

They are not going to hurt their careers by doing this though.

Really? How do you know?

They'll probably be put in the league's Marijuana Program now... which could lead to problems with further infractions.

[DPG21920]

Should and shouldn't is different than can a cannot. You are arguing an entirely different thing.

Really. My whole point was based on the should and shouldn't not the can and cannot. Can you go drink if you want? Yes. Is it illegal? No. Should you drink in certain situations although you can....that is what I am talking about. You do not have to agree, but I would think rookies at a seminar about drugs and alcohol would like to keep a low profile and not even risk the slightest thing going wrong. Drugs and Alcohol both carry negative connotations.

[The Franchise]

Dumb diddy dumb dumb.

[DPG21920]

Really? How do you know?

They'll probably be put in the league's Marijuana Program now... which could lead to problems with further infractions.

As I mentioned before, I know because I see Ron Artest still playing in the league, I see Stephen Jackson still playing in the league, I see Josh Howard in the league..........

I clearly said earlier, if they are really talented, it will not hurt them. In this case, being unproven, late picks that have never proven themselves, this was an ultra dumb move.

[Kori Ellis]

Just FYI (in case some people don't know) the seminar isn't all about drugs and alcohol... they talk a lot about money management, using condoms :lol, and dozens of other things. They also play basketball, get to meet with some of the legends of the games, listen to current and former players and coaches speak, etc. But a good deal of time is spent on the area of drugs, obviously.

[The Franchise]

Really? How do you know?

They'll probably be put in the league's Marijuana Program now... which could lead to problems with further infractions.

They may, but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and say I don't think they will be any dumber than this............ I hope.

[tlongII]

It makes perfect sense. The Spurs still have players on their team that they drafted that are contributing to winning titles. The Blazer have drafted no one that has even led them into the playoffs in 5 years. Rudy and Sergio have proven nothing, so you do not know if they can help. Could they, sure, but you do not know. How can you count out Mahinmi and Hill but throw out Sergio and Rudy?

The point I was making with the Blazer scenario is that almost no teams draft guys late that come in and help. Ya the Blazers have drafted Rudy and Sergio, but they have not done anything yet. Just like the Spurs draft picks.

When the Spurs picked Mahinmi they passed on David Lee, Salim Stoudamire, Brandon Bass, Ronny Turiaf, and Monta Ellis among others. I'm sure you would agree that any of those players would have helped the Spurs much more than Mahinmi.

[DPG21920]

Well I don't think anyone cares if they go out and have a couple drinks at a night club in the evening during their time at the orientation.

How do you know? Their owner, coach or teammates could have a big problem with this.

[DPG21920]

When the Spurs picked Mahinmi they passed on David Lee, Salim Stoudamire, Brandon Bass, Ronny Turiaf, and Monta Ellis among others. I'm sure you would agree that any of those players would have helped the Spurs much more than Mahinmi.

How can you say that? You have not seen Mahinmi play a game yet. Come back in 4 years and we can have this conversation. With the exception of Ellis, no one has been outstanding enough to even second guess as of yet. I for one would rather have a big man with potential than a guard. That is why they chose Mahinmi. Now we have to wait and see over the next few years.

[T Park]

How do you know? Their owner, coach or teammates could have a big problem with this.

BEcause they don't.

Give up your wrong on this.


BTW, will the haters of the FO take this into consideration?

Probobly not. They will brush it aside like politicians.

[FromWayDowntown]

I think tlong is confusing talent evaluation (and ignoring economic constraints that can't be ignored) with due diligence. The Spurs have long been reported to undertake long and searching inquiries into the character of potential acquisitions -- that's due diligence.

That the Spurs haven't drafted a contributing player in 7 years is: (1) ignorant of the fact that the Spurs have effectively used draft picks to acquire players who've contributed (Speedy Claxton in 2002-03 was acquired through the trade of a pick and, for whatever it's worth, Beno Udrih was a contributor to an NBA title winner -- both instances of using a draft pick for value in the last 7 years; the jury's out on Mahinmi and Hill, no matter what tlong says; Splitter will likely be a question mark for a while); and (2) involves an entirely different sort of an analysis than the due diligence that goes into character assessments of potential acquisitions.

[benefactor]

So much for picking these guys...I have to agree with FWDT about the possibility of Self knowing something about these guys and giving R.C. the inside line. I am sure there are programs all over the country that had players do things that never left the locker room and got handled internally. With both players looking like a good fit for our team and our FO passing on them it seems something very well could have been said to steer us away.

[Kori Ellis]

How can you say that? You have not seen Mahinmi play a game yet. Come back in 4 years and we can have this conversation. With the exception of Ellis, no one has been outstanding enough to even second guess as of yet. I for one would rather have a big man with potential than a guard. That is why they chose Mahinmi. Now we have to wait and see over the next few years.

I think you would probably take David Lee too, right?

[Kori Ellis]

How do you know? Their owner, coach or teammates could have a big problem with this.

Because generally people don't have an issue with someone drink a couple drinks on their own time, as long as they aren't getting drunk and stupid.

[DPG21920]

BEcause they don't.

Give up your wrong on this.


BTW, will the haters of the FO take this into consideration?

Probobly not. They will brush it aside like politicians.

How can you be wrong on something subjective?

[DPG21920]

I think you would probably take David Lee too, right?

A bird in the hand mentality. No. with the exception of Ellis (and that is with knowing how he would turn out) I do not think taking Mahinmi was a mistake over any of the aforementioned players. David Lee is a nice player, but not enough to make you second guess taking on a project like Mahinmi imo.

[Kori Ellis]

A bird in the hand mentality. No. with the exception of Ellis (and that is with knowing how he would turn out) I do not think taking Mahinmi was a mistake over any of the aforementioned players. David Lee is a nice player, but not enough to make you second guess taking on a project like Mahinmi imo.

Really? I'd take Lee in a heartbeat - 9 and 9 and shooting 58 percent from the floor over 200+ games in the league is a good sample size to me. I don't know if Mahnimi will ever be close to that.

[DPG21920]

Because generally people don't have an issue with someone drink a couple drinks on their own time, as long as they aren't getting drunk and stupid.

I agree with that, but putting yourself into situations where things can go wrong is not smart. That is my only point. Even if you go out to just grab a glass of wine at the club there is always the chance something goes wrong (fights, wrecks, women...) that could reflect poorly.

[tlongII]

I think tlong is confusing talent evaluation (and ignoring economic constraints that can't be ignored) with due diligence. The Spurs have long been reported to undertake long and searching inquiries into the character of potential acquisitions -- that's due diligence.

That the Spurs haven't drafted a contributing player in 7 years is: (1) ignorant of the fact that the Spurs have effectively used draft picks to acquire players who've contributed (Speedy Claxton in 2002-03 was acquired through the trade of a pick and, for whatever it's worth, Beno Udrih was a contributor to an NBA title winner -- both instances of using a draft pick for value in the last 7 years; the jury's out on Mahinmi and Hill, no matter what tlong says; Splitter will likely be a question mark for a while); and (2) involves an entirely different sort of an analysis than the due diligence that goes into character assessments of potential acquisitions.

Speedy Claxton is the closest thing you have to a valid argument in your post. Of course he was acquired in a trade though.

Udrih didn't contribute squat. In fact he did his best to try and prevent the Spurs from winning a title IIRC.

Mahinmi and Hill are both busts. It may be early for you to make that call, but it isn't for me.

[DPG21920]

Really? I'd take Lee in a heartbeat - 9 and 9 and shooting 58 percent from the floor over 200+ games in the league is a good sample size to me. I don't know if Mahnimi will ever be close to that.

I think that Ian can reach that for sure, and if not he will probably be more of an impact defender. Not to say Lee would not help, or that would of been a bad pick. I just think that is Lee's ceiling (give or take a few points). I think that is Ian's middle of the road career. Only time will tell.

[FromWayDowntown]

Speedy Claxton is the closest thing you have to a valid argument in your post. Of course he was acquired in a trade though.

He was acquired in a trade that involved shipping out a draft pick -- a savvy use of a draft pick, one could argue.


Udrih didn't contribute squat. In fact he did his best to try and prevent the Spurs from winning a title IIRC.

Well, he played 80 games as the primary back-up point for a team that won a title. He was also one of only 8 players to average double-figure minutes in the playoffs for that team, appearing in 21 of its 23 games. He undoubtedly had a poor showing at times and was appropriately benched at nut-cutting time in the Finals, but it's not as if he was just along for the ride with that team.


Mahinmi and Hill are both busts. It may be early for you to make that call, but it isn't for me.

What have you seen of Mahinmi to make that judgment? Did you spend last year studying D-League games? Are you basing it on something else? If it's just a feel, then you're just pulling things out of your ass. If it's something else, I'd be curious what fount of talent evaluation you've come across to give you such clarity about the future of a kid who's played a total of 23 NBA minutes to this point.

[T Park]

What have you seen of Mahinmi to make that judgment?

Pictures on the internet.

But the above things you highlighted are the reason I blocked him.

His stupidity got too annoying.

[SequSpur]

wgaf, they are both better than the shit the spurs have stoned.

[tlongII]

What have you seen of Mahinmi to make that judgment? Did you spend last year studying D-League games? Are you basing it on something else? If it's just a feel, then you're just pulling things out of your ass. If it's something else, I'd be curious what fount of talent evaluation you've come across to give you such clarity about the future of a kid who's played a total of 23 NBA minutes to this point.

The Spurs picked Mahinmi in 2005 and he hasn't made the regular roster yet. That is pretty much all you need to know. However, I have seen some video of him playing and he's too small and clumsy to be effective in the NBA.

[tlongII]

But you guys can keeping living the lie of your GREAT FO if you want to!

[FromWayDowntown]

The Spurs picked Mahinmi in 2005 as he hasn't made the regular roster yet. That is pretty much all you need to know. However, I have seen some video of him playing and he's too small and clumsy to be effective in the NBA.

Nice simplification.

Even at that, you've completely ignored my point about the difference between talent evaluation and due diligence.

A player can be evaluated as a great talent, but if he's a bad character who can't stay out of trouble, he is generally going to be no good to that team -- Eddie Griffin was a fabulous talent with terrible character issues. Talent evaluation is recognizing that the guy can play; due diligence is discovering that the guy might have other issues that will cost him opportunities to show that talent. There's a difference.

[FromWayDowntown]

But you guys can keeping living the lie of your GREAT FO if you want to!

1977, baby!

[tlongII]

Nice simplification.

Even at that, you've completely ignored my point about the difference between talent evaluation and due diligence.

A player can be evaluated as a great talent, but if he's a bad character who can't stay out of trouble, he is generally going to be no good to that team -- Eddie Griffin was a fabulous talent with terrible character issues. Talent evaluation is recognizing that the guy can play; due diligence is discovering that the guy might have other issues that will cost him opportunities to show that talent. There's a difference.

IMO, due diligence includes talent evaluation.

[diego]

i have no problem with weed and wish it were legal, but you're making a horrible argument DPG

1) drinking is legal, but being drunk in public isnt.
2) what you do in front of your boss (or anyone you want to make a good impression on) has nothing to do with what is legal. do you swear in front of your boss? depends on how your boss is right? same with drinking and drugs. you only do that in front of your boss when you KNOW you boss is cool with it.

bottomline, these guys were stupid about it. if you are going to do something illegal, you have to be smart enough to do it without getting caught.

[DPG21920]

Gino was drafted in 1999 and did not join the Spurs until 2002

[FromWayDowntown]

IMO, due diligence includes talent evaluation.

I'd disagree with that. Teams frequently select players who have great talent but very poor character. Sometimes they express surprise when they find out about the player's character, though they know he can play ball. That would be an example of a significant difference between knowing a guy can play (talent evaluation) and knowing that a guy won't be a problem (due diligence).

[DPG21920]

i have no problem with weed and wish it were legal, but you're making a horrible argument DPG

1) drinking is legal, but being drunk in public isnt.
2) what you do in front of your boss (or anyone you want to make a good impression on) has nothing to do with what is legal. do you swear in front of your boss? depends on how your boss is right? same with drinking and drugs. you only do that in front of your boss when you KNOW you boss is cool with it.

bottomline, these guys were stupid about it. if you are going to do something illegal, you have to be smart enough to do it without getting caught.

That is my point. You should not do things just because you can, you have to be smart about it. There is a time and place for everything. Going to a drug and alcohol seminar means you should not be partaking in either activity, legal or not. Don't even risk it at that point.

Obviously drinking is legal and weed is not, that is obvious. Like I said though, if you go to a club, generally you are there to drink, and drink quite a bit. Even if you got wasted, called a cab so that you were doing nothing illegal, if your employers new that you were doing that at the seminar there is a chance they would frown upon it.

[SequSpur]

mahinmi blows

[DPG21920]

The Spurs picked Mahinmi in 2005 and he hasn't made the regular roster yet. That is pretty much all you need to know. However, I have seen some video of him playing and he's too small and clumsy to be effective in the NBA.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ian_mahinmi/index.html

He is 6'11 and 230, but he is too small? I guess Amare is too small as well.

[The Truth #6]

Given the solid players we passed on to draft Ian, and time we've spent to develop him, we basically have raised the expectations on him. We very much could have used any of those players mentioned who could begin playing immediately.

In choosing Ian, we basically put our hopes higher than those other players. So if Ian doesn't pan out and isn't a legitimate baller, then I would say we screwed up that draft pick. There's no reason to make a verdict yet, however, he needs to show something when the season starts, otherwise his draft pick just shortened our window.

(And this isn't to slam RC or Pop because Ian was Presti's guy.)

As for Chalmers and Arthur, I'm sure Chase had plenty of stories to tell RC. Either that or CDR got revenge and sold them down the river.

[tlongII]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/ian_mahinmi/index.html

He is 6'11 and 230, but he is too small? I guess Amare is too small as well.

Amare would break Mahinmi in half.

[DPG21920]

Amare would break Mahinmi in half.

Ya.

[tlongII]

Mahinmi was officially measured at 6-10 and 220 lbs. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ian-Mahinmi-207/

That is too small to play the post in the NBA imo.

[DPG21920]

Amare is only 20 pounds heavier and Mahinimi looks like he put on a little weight.

[tlongII]

Amare is only 20 pounds heavier and Mahinimi looks like he put on a little weight.

Amare is also a natural power forward. My understanding is that the Spurs are looking for Mahinmi to play the 5.

[MavDynasty]

dumbfucks

[jayc23]

BAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH let the good times roll.

[century]

Most NBA players smoke pot. These two idiots were just too dumb to get caught.

[Biggems]

someone at KU is making a killing....Talib, Chalmers, Arthur.....I am sure there are more.....I am definitely opposed to illegal drugs.....but at the same time, I cant blame these guys, well at least while in college........what the hell else is there to do in Kansas when you arent in class or at practice? However, these guys are now in the NBA.....they are in cities that have more to offer than podunk Kansas.....yet these morons continue to get high like a couple of Cheech and Chong knockoffs.....

[cbinge]

I can barely hold out until getting home tonight. I have half a mind to bring a j to work to smoke in the parking garage.

woaaa, big brother is watching this forum. Anyway, and from past experience the roof of the building has better air flow if you can get there...

I am curious if they were sitting there toking in their room, when they hear the knock on the door. Run to the toilet and flush, spray that renuzit...ohhh too late...

[K-State Spur]

If Chalmers is the next Billups no one will care if he smokes weed.

Yeah....he's not Billups.

Billups' freshman year of college was better than any season that Chalmers posted.

[K-State Spur]

As I mentioned before, I know because I see Ron Artest still playing in the league, I see Stephen Jackson still playing in the league, I see Josh Howard in the league..........

I clearly said earlier, if they are really talented, it will not hurt them. In this case, being unproven, late picks that have never proven themselves, this was an ultra dumb move.

Well, Artest & Jackson have both had to deal with below market contracts based on their perceived attitudes. Howard cashed in early, I dare say that the Mavs wouldn't do that deal again if given the chance.

[Tully365]

Ginobili and Parker are the most recent players the Spurs have acquired through the draft that have contributed to the team and they were picked 7 years ago I believe. I realize they pick late in the draft, but I believe they should have been able to pick somebody within the last 7 years that could contribute. We'll never know about Splitter since he bolted, but it's clear to me that Mahinmi won't amount to anything. That doesn't sound like due diligence to me.

Portland's Late First Round & Second Round picks in recent years.

2002-03
Qyntel Woods, Northeast Mississippi Community College, First round (#21)[6]

2003-04
Selected Travis Outlaw with the 23rd pick (first round) of the 2003 NBA Draft.[8]
Selected Nedžad Sinanović with the 54th pick (2nd round) of the 2003 NBA draft.[9]

2004-05
Selected Sebastian Telfair with the 13th pick (first round) of the 2004 NBA Draft.[13]
Sergei Monia, Russia, 2004, First round (#23)

2005-06
Traded the rights to the #3 pick, Deron Williams to Utah in exchange for rights to the sixth, Martell Webster, and 27th picks and a conditional 2006 first-round pick.
Acquired the drafts rights to Jarrett Jack (#22) from Denver for the draft rights to Linas Kleiza (#27) and Ricky Sanchez (#35)

2006-07
Acquired the rights to the #27 pick, Sergio Rodriguez, from the Phoenix Suns in exchange for cash.
Drafted Joel Freeland with the #30 pick.
Drafted James White with the #31 pick; traded him to the Indiana Pacers for the rights to the #45 pick (Alexander Johnson from Florida State University) and two future second-round picks.
Traded the rights to Johnson to the Memphis Grizzlies for a future second round pick

2007-2008
Josh McRoberts, Duke University, 2007, Second round (#7)
Derrick Byars, Vanderbilt University, Second round (#12).
Taurean Green, University of Florida, Second round (#22)
Demetris Nichols, Syracuse University, Second round (#23)


When picking in Spur-like positions (late 1st round, 2nd round), Portland has drafted almost nobody of consequence. All of their best picks were taken early and mid first round, including Deron Williams, who was lost in a monumental blunder of a trade. Keep in mind also, these better picks were rewarded to Portland because they were a terrible team that didn't make the playoffs or win many games. In this same time period, the Spurs made the playoffs every year, won 50+ games every year, and won 3 championships. Here's what Portland has accomplished so far in the 2000s:

2000-01 50 32 .610 Lost First Round Los Angeles 3, Portland 0
2001-02 49 33 .598 Lost First Round Los Angeles 3, Portland 0
2002-03 50 32 .610 Lost First Round Dallas 4, Portland 3
2003-04 41 41 .500 Did not make the playoffs
2004-05 27 55 .329 Did not make the playoffs
2005-06 21 61 .256 Did not make the playoffs
2006-07 32 50 .390 Did not make the playoffs
2007-08 41 41 .500 Did not make the playoffs

Portland is owned by a billionaire with much more money than Peter Holt, and they have still been outperformed by a huge margin. Any comparison of the two franchises is completely ludicrous.

[tlongII]

Portland's Late First Round & Second Round picks in recent years.

2002-03
Qyntel Woods, Northeast Mississippi Community College, First round (#21)[6]

2003-04
Selected Travis Outlaw with the 23rd pick (first round) of the 2003 NBA Draft.[8]
Selected Nedžad Sinanović with the 54th pick (2nd round) of the 2003 NBA draft.[9]

2004-05
Selected Sebastian Telfair with the 13th pick (first round) of the 2004 NBA Draft.[13]
Sergei Monia, Russia, 2004, First round (#23)

2005-06
Traded the rights to the #3 pick, Deron Williams to Utah in exchange for rights to the sixth, Martell Webster, and 27th picks and a conditional 2006 first-round pick.
Acquired the drafts rights to Jarrett Jack (#22) from Denver for the draft rights to Linas Kleiza (#27) and Ricky Sanchez (#35)

2006-07
Acquired the rights to the #27 pick, Sergio Rodriguez, from the Phoenix Suns in exchange for cash.
Drafted Joel Freeland with the #30 pick.
Drafted James White with the #31 pick; traded him to the Indiana Pacers for the rights to the #45 pick (Alexander Johnson from Florida State University) and two future second-round picks.
Traded the rights to Johnson to the Memphis Grizzlies for a future second round pick

2007-2008
Josh McRoberts, Duke University, 2007, Second round (#7)
Derrick Byars, Vanderbilt University, Second round (#12).
Taurean Green, University of Florida, Second round (#22)
Demetris Nichols, Syracuse University, Second round (#23)


When picking in Spur-like positions (late 1st round, 2nd round), Portland has drafted almost nobody of consequence. All of their best picks were taken early and mid first round, including Deron Williams, who was lost in a monumental blunder of a trade. Keep in mind also, these better picks were rewarded to Portland because they were a terrible team that didn't make the playoffs or win many games. In this same time period, the Spurs made the playoffs every year, won 50+ games every year, and won 3 championships. Here's what Portland has accomplished so far in the 2000s:

2000-01 50 32 .610 Lost First Round Los Angeles 3, Portland 0
2001-02 49 33 .598 Lost First Round Los Angeles 3, Portland 0
2002-03 50 32 .610 Lost First Round Dallas 4, Portland 3
2003-04 41 41 .500 Did not make the playoffs
2004-05 27 55 .329 Did not make the playoffs
2005-06 21 61 .256 Did not make the playoffs
2006-07 32 50 .390 Did not make the playoffs
2007-08 41 41 .500 Did not make the playoffs

Portland is owned by a billionaire with much more money than Peter Holt, and they have still been outperformed by a huge margin. Any comparison of the two franchises is completely ludicrous.

Your point would be relevant if I was trying to compare the 2 franchises. I wasn't. I was merely pointing out that the Spurs FO has been inept for the past 7 years. The Spurs are lucky that they have Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker. They've done very little to aid them.

[tlongII]

And comparing the two franchises over the next 10 years will be more ludicrous than your comparison over the past 10 years.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The double standard between ganja and alcohol is sickening. Neither is particularly good for you in large doses, but I've seen a lot worse things happen to people who drink too much as against those who smoke too much.

The whole world has to get over this arbitrary black-balling of a drug that is no worse than alcohol.

So, the boys got stoned... really, WHO GIVES A FUCK???

[Tully365]

Your point would be relevant if I was trying to compare the 2 franchises. I wasn't. I was merely pointing out that the Spurs FO has been inept for the past 7 years. The Spurs are lucky that they have Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker. They've done very little to aid them.

:lol inept :lol
2003-04 41 41 .500 Did not make the playoffs
2004-05 27 55 .329 Did not make the playoffs
2005-06 21 61 .256 Did not make the playoffs
2006-07 32 50 .390 Did not make the playoffs
2007-08 41 41 .500 Did not make the playoffs

[smrattler]

Littering and... littering and... littering and...


http://www.quizilla.com/user_images/P/PolledChild/1078203940_tteringand.JPG

[DROB4EVER]

Hill looking a little better

[tlongII]

:lol inept :lol
2003-04 41 41 .500 Did not make the playoffs
2004-05 27 55 .329 Did not make the playoffs
2005-06 21 61 .256 Did not make the playoffs
2006-07 32 50 .390 Did not make the playoffs
2007-08 41 41 .500 Did not make the playoffs

Make sure you wave as we pass you in the standings in this year.

[tomtom]

The double standard between ganja and alcohol is sickening. Neither is particularly good for you in large doses, but I've seen a lot worse things happen to people who drink too much as against those who smoke too much.

The whole world has to get over this arbitrary black-balling of a drug that is no worse than alcohol.

So, the boys got stoned... really, WHO GIVES A FUCK???

Exactly! In fact alcohol is usually the one that causes more accidents. If you get stoned you're likely to be with a group of friends just laughing it up, and I'm sure we know how much of a problem drunk driving is.

[angelbelow]

terrible start.

[Ginobilly]

Would they still get sent home if they got caught with a bag of legal Salvia(what kids are smoking these days)?

[ducks]

Chalmers left Miami on Monday to begin the program, a four-day event which is required of all newcomers entering the league and focuses on issues such as life skills, handling finances, the importance of character and image, the difference between NBA and NCAA game rules, legal matters and dealing with media.

[rascal]

I guess some posters owe rc some respect

No way. You take the best talent at that spot in the draft.

[rascal]

Your point would be relevant if I was trying to compare the 2 franchises. I wasn't. I was merely pointing out that the Spurs FO has been inept for the past 7 years. The Spurs are lucky that they have Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker. They've done very little to aid them. Good post.

[urunobili]

I was merely pointing out that the Spurs FO has been inept for the past 7 years. The Spurs are lucky that they have Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker. They've done very little to aid them.

So Bowen, Horry, Barry, Devin Brown, Fin, Oberto have done nothing to aid the last three years and two championship runs?

[DPG21920]

Yeah....he's not Billups.

Billups' freshman year of college was better than any season that Chalmers posted.

Yeah.....I never said he was Billups. I said IF he is the next Billups (or turns out to be a stud) that no one will care what you do in this league. You will always have a chance to play.

[coyotes_geek]

So Bowen, Horry, Barry, Devin Brown, Fin, Oberto have done nothing to aid the last three years and two championship runs?

Evidently only draft picks count.

[DPG21920]

Well, Artest & Jackson have both had to deal with below market contracts based on their perceived attitudes. Howard cashed in early, I dare say that the Mavs wouldn't do that deal again if given the chance.

The point was not about money. It was clearly about the fact you can do many things over and over and over and over in the NBA and you will always be let back in. You can run into the stands and beat fans, you can fire guns multiple times into crowds at night clubs, you can admit on national talk radio that you smoke weed during the busiest time of basketball season (playoffs). So, the POINT is that you can mess up many times (you may get suspended or labeled) but you will be let back in.

[ducks]

No way. You take the best talent at that spot in the draft.

even if he breaks the law

[koriwhat]

Would they still get sent home if they got caught with a bag of legal Salvia(what kids are smoking these days)?

it ain't legal in 11 states now including tx. tx just banned it like 3 weeks ago or so. i did enough lsd back in the day that i could care less about tripping for 5 minutes on salvia cause when you trip for 12 hrs+ at a time of lsd well salvia is mere child's play.

smoke weed everyday!

[Tully365]

Your point would be relevant if I was trying to compare the 2 franchises. I wasn't. I was merely pointing out that the Spurs FO has been inept for the past 7 years. The Spurs are lucky that they have Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker. They've done very little to aid them.


You keep changing the argument. The point of my listing all of Portland's late first and second round picks is to show that few teams get huge players from that position in the draft. Portland has been incapable of landing a Parker or Ginobili-level player when put in the same situation. Their most successful late first round pick the last 7 years is Travis Outlaw. But your argument is well other than two all-stars in your backcourt, what have you done? The point is no other team has found two all-stars with those type of picks, so how do you feel justified saying the Spurs haven't drafted well? What, in order to be praised they have to exceed every other team every single year?
The vast majority of most teams' late first and second round picks wind up in the same position.... not making it in the league.

[DPG21920]

He just does not get it. He expects miracles to happen on a yearly basis.

[tlongII]

You keep changing the argument. The point of my listing all of Portland's late first and second round picks is to show that few teams get huge players from that position in the draft. Portland has been incapable of landing a Parker or Ginobili-level player when put in the same situation. Their most successful late first round pick the last 7 years is Travis Outlaw. But your argument is well other than two all-stars in your backcourt, what have you done? The point is no other team has found two all-stars with those type of picks, so how do you feel justified saying the Spurs haven't drafted well? What, in order to be praised they have to exceed every other team every single year?
The vast majority of most teams' late first and second round picks wind up in the same position.... not making it in the league.

You're the one that's changing the argument, not me. I've clearly stated that I'm referring to the past 7 years after Ginobili and Parker were already picked by the Spurs. The Spurs' FO has clearly been inept during that period of time.

[Tully365]

The point was not about money. It was clearly about the fact you can do many things over and over and over and over in the NBA and you will always be let back in. You can run into the stands and beat fans, you can fire guns multiple times into crowds at night clubs, you can admit on national talk radio that you smoke weed during the busiest time of basketball season (playoffs). So, the POINT is that you can mess up many times (you may get suspended or labeled) but you will be let back in.

This is true, and I think part of the equation is also that athletes are so much more visible nowadays. This stuff has always gone on, and in the past the punishments weren't nearly as severe.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Russell:

"Constantly provoked by New York Knicks center Ray Felix during a game, he complained to coach Auerbach. The latter told him to take matters into his own hands, so after the next provocation, Russell punched Felix unconscious, paid a 25-dollar fine and was no longer a target of cheap fouls."

And this-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ty_Cobb:

"Despite great success on the field, Cobb was no stranger to controversy off it. At Spring Training in 1907, he fought a black groundskeeper over the condition of the Tigers' field in Augusta, Georgia. Ty also ended up choking the man's wife when she intervened."

And:

"During Cobb's career, he was involved in numerous fights, both on and off the field, and several profanity-laced shouting matches. For example, Cobb and umpire Billy Evans arranged to settle their in-game differences with a fistfight, to be conducted under the grandstand after the game. Members of both teams were spectators, and broke up the scuffle after Cobb had knocked Evans down, pinned him, and began choking him. Cobb once slapped a black elevator operator for being "uppity." When a black night watchman intervened, Cobb pulled out a knife and stabbed him."

If these things happened today, they'd be big news, but some sports fans don't even know that they happened at all. I don't condone what Artest did, going into the stands, but it doesn't compare to stabbing someone, and it doesn't compare to going into the stands many times, like Cobb did. I thought it was funny when Bill Walton went on and on about the Artest thing, calling it the worst thing in the history of the game-- it doesn't even crack the top ten.

[The Truth #6]

There's no reason to slam the FO for the last 7 years. We've been at the top and have often been lauded in the press for savvy moves.

However, beginning with the Scola debacle, our FO has flat out stunk. There has been poor drafting, impatience with young players, and other actions that make me wonder if Pop and RC were the ones smoking weed in the hotel room. Signing Finley to a contract (and a ridiculous one at that), getting rid of Gist, already showing signs of giving up on Hill (our first round draft pick!) is what easily comes to mind.

[Tully365]

You're the one that's changing the argument, not me. I've clearly stated that I'm referring to the past 7 years after Ginobili and Parker were already picked by the Spurs. The Spurs' FO has clearly been inept during that period of time.

They've had the same level of success as Portland & almost every other team picking from similar positions. Look at the facts. You just hold them to a higher standard because they struck it rich in the past in a way that almost no other team ever has.

[Biernutz]

Congrats on the start of your NBA career guys. Now will you please pee in the cup every month for 2 years.

[lurker23]

More details in this article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3569725

Details of the scandal involving Mario Chalmers and Darrell Arthur are beginning to emerge as the NBA and the players' association investigate the events that led to their expulsion from the league's rookie transition program Wednesday.

Several sources said Thursday that NBA commissioner David Stern was so angered by the two former Kansas players' alleged involvement with marijuana and women at the program that he made the call to remove them from their rooms at the Doral Arrowwood resort in Rye Brook, N.Y.

Chalmers and Arthur, who just months ago helped lead the Jayhawks to the 2008 NCAA championship, were dismissed from the four-day program after women -- a violation of the program's no-visitors rule -- and signs of marijuana usage were found in their hotel room.

According to sources, Chalmers and Arthur were caught in Arthur's room at the Doral Arrowwood resort in Rye Brook when a smoke alarm went off Wednesday at about 2 a.m. Hotel management went to the room, but the players refused to allow them in.

Management then left to get security, which used its own key to enter the room minutes later. Once inside, security found Chalmers, Arthur and at least two women. There was a strong stench of marijuana in the room, and one person was in the bathroom with the door locked, repeatedly flushing the toilet, sources said.

The police were called to the room, which they searched, but neither marijuana nor drug paraphernalia was found. Representatives from the players' association were also on the scene by that time.

Chalmers and Arthur were allowed to spend the night at the resort and were seemingly planning to attend a kickoff address by Stern later Wednesday morning. But after being told of the violations shortly before beginning his speech, Stern immediately had the players removed from their rooms.

Several sources described Stern as being furious.

The commissioner's anger was apparently evident when he began his speech; he mentioned Chalmers and Arthur by name and told the 67 rookies in attendance that the two would be thrown out of the program and forced to attend the 2009 session.

Sources said Chalmers and Arthur have already been fined $20,000 apiece and could start the regular season on the NBA's suspended list. But league spokesman Brian McIntyre would not confirm that.

"We're still looking into it," McIntyre said Wednesday. "Once we have all the details, appropriate sanctions will be taken."

Under the rules of the collective bargaining agreement, Chalmers and Arthur could soon be subjected to a drug test. If they fail, they would be required to enter the league's marijuana program, but they would not be suspended from playing in any games. Stern, however, could push to suspend the players for violating the rules of the rookie program.

Chalmers, who sank a game-tying, buzzer-beating 3-pointer that forced overtime in Kansas' 75-68 championship victory over Memphis, was drafted 34th by Minnesota. He was quickly traded to Miami, where he is expected to vie for the starting role at point guard after playing well during summer league. Chalmers played three seasons for the Jayhawks.

Arthur, also an early-entry candidate who played two years at Kansas, was a sympathetic figure on draft night. Roundly believed to have lottery-type talent, Arthur fell to the 27th spot after erroneous rumors of a health problem circulated throughout the league.

Then, after being selected by New Orleans, the 6-foot-9 forward was traded to Portland, then Houston, before finally settling in Memphis.

Kansas coach Bill Self stood by his former players Wednesday.

"We really don't know all the facts yet, and I certainly would never comment publicly on any personal matter concerning any player I have ever coached," Self said. "Beyond that, I can say that both Mario and Darrell were great to coach. They played a huge role in our success the past few years, in large part due to their unselfishness and the sacrifices they made for our program."

Chris Broussard is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

[The Truth #6]

Because no drugs were found by police I wonder if the Player's Association will intervene on their behalf or not. Having women in their room was a verifiable violation of the rules of the 4 day camp. But if no drugs were technically found, I wonder if they'll begin the season on suspension. However, no matter how that resolves itself, itseems very likely they will be peeing in a cup for the next few years.

[cbinge]

According to sources, Chalmers and Arthur were caught in Arthur's room at the Doral Arrowwood resort in Rye Brook when a smoke alarm went off Wednesday at about 2 a.m. Hotel management went to the room, but the players refused to allow them in.

.

smoke alarm? rookies...

[ChuckD]

Because no drugs were found by police I wonder if the Player's Association will intervene on their behalf or not. Having women in their room was a verifiable violation of the rules of the 4 day camp. But if no drugs were technically found, I wonder if they'll begin the season on suspension. However, no matter how that resolves itself, itseems very likely they will be peeing in a cup for the next few years.
Players aren't suspended for a first offense, but I believe they go into "the program", probably for counseling, or maybe an IQ test. Open a fucking window, morons, and you won't set off the smoke alarm.

[Dramon]

And you guys wanted to pick up JR Smith..

[Spurtacus]

Dumbasses! lmao

[duncan228]

Expulsion incident not in Mario Chalmers' room (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-chalmers0904,0,5968730.story)
By Ira Winderman | SunSentinel.com

As details of the expulsion of Miami Heat guard Mario Chalmers from the NBA's Rookie Transition Program came to light today, so did a potential punishment.

While a report on ESPN.com confirmed the claim made by agent Sam Goldfeder that the incident in question did not occur in Chalmers' hotel room, it still painted a troubling picture regarding the circumstances surrounding the second-round draft pick.

According to ESPN.com, a fire alarm at 2 a.m. Wednesday at the Rye Brook, N.Y., hotel utilized by the NBA for the seminar sent hotel management to the room of Darrell Arthur, a first-round draft choice now with the Memphis Grizzlies who was Chalmers' Kansas teammate.

The report said when management was denied entry, hotel security entered the room with a pass key, where at least two women and a strong stench of marijuana were present. With the bathroom door locked at the time, repeatedly flushing could be heard, with police later arriving and find no marijuana or related paraphernalia.

The two players were expelled before the start of the program hours later by NBA Commissioner David Stern, with no police action taken.

While it already had been reported that each rookie was fined $20,000, the issue of a potential suspension remains unresolved.

According to Article VI, Section 4(b) of the NBA's Collective Bargaining Agreement, "When a player, without proper and reasonable excuse, fails or refuses to attend 'mandatory program,' he shall be fined $20,000 by the NBA." That clause also contains the wording "that if the player misses the Rookie Transition Program, he shall be suspended for five (5) games."

The interpretation of that clause could play into further league action, although NBA Vice President Tim Frank said Thursday, "That language was put in for a case in which a guy wants to skip it. Nothing is definitive until the Commissioner makes a decision."

[Brutalis]

NBA players smoking weed?

Bull.

Never would that happen. Ever. Impossible.

[Fingaroll44]

[QUOTE=Bruno;2749983] I wonder if they haven't also slipped because some teams were concerned about their attitude.[QUOTE]

exaactly. no one seems to think this is a possibility just because "half the nba smokes". and if u r getting drafted in the second round, obviously u have holes in your game. so u cant tell me that smoking weed is filling these holes like uhhh....working out would

[Fingaroll44]

the guys who violate the rules at a seminar about the dangers of drugs and women in the NBA life are immediately sent home and denied the counseling that they obviously are in need of most.

I almost immediately thought the same thing. theyre going to go thru a whole season w/ even more temptations, then theyre going to have to go thru the seminar AFTER the season is over basically.

[duncan228]

Chalmers apologizes to Heat, NBA for rookie symposium banishment (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/09/05/heat.chalmers.ap/index.html)

He says he broke rules but "did not smoke marijuana."

[Hemotivo]

don't do drugs

[Bruno]

Management then left to get security, which used its own key to enter the room minutes later. Once inside, security found Chalmers, Arthur and at least two women. There was a strong stench of marijuana in the room, and one person was in the bathroom with the door locked, repeatedly flushing the toilet, sources said.

:lmao

[GSH]

Two idiots. Bunch of idiots here, arguing about whether it should be legal, or whether "most" NBA players smoke. It doesn't matter. They made an open mockery of David Stern and worse, from Stern's point of view, they made a mockery of the program. These players are kids who suddenly have some money - but they are also professionals making 7-figure salaries. Stern set up the program to try and help them keep from behaving like the former and screwing up their careers.

Even if you never worked for a big corporation, you know it would be a bad idea to let the CEO catch you doing "funny" impersonations of him in the break room. And you don't send out "funny" e-mails mocking the CEO's favorite charity that he "encourges" everyone to support. Nobody has to be told those things. You know that if you get caught you'll be looking for a new job that afternoon.

Getting caught in a hotel room with women and marijuana (residue) might have been excusable. But by doing it at this venue, they were sending a message that the program doesn't mean shit. Stern loses all credibility if he doesn't kick those guys out, and tell the others that it really is important. Any punishment they get will be too light, because ANY of the rest of us would be fired from our jobs on the spot.

And anybody with that much problem with authority better have a TON of skills, because they aren't going to be coachable.

[Ginobilly]

Two idiots. Bunch of idiots here, arguing about whether it should be legal, or whether "most" NBA players smoke. It doesn't matter. They made an open mockery of David Stern and worse, from Stern's point of view, they made a mockery of the program. These players are kids who suddenly have some money - but they are also professionals making 7-figure salaries. Stern set up the program to try and help them keep from behaving like the former and screwing up their careers.

Even if you never worked for a big corporation, you know it would be a bad idea to let the CEO catch you doing "funny" impersonations of him in the break room. And you don't send out "funny" e-mails mocking the CEO's favorite charity that he "encourges" everyone to support. Nobody has to be told those things. You know that if you get caught you'll be looking for a new job that afternoon.

Getting caught in a hotel room with women and marijuana (residue) might have been excusable. But by doing it at this venue, they were sending a message that the program doesn't mean shit. Stern loses all credibility if he doesn't kick those guys out, and tell the others that it really is important. Any punishment they get will be too light, because ANY of the rest of us would be fired from our jobs on the spot.

And anybody with that much problem with authority better have a TON of skills, because they aren't going to be coachable.


I think they didn't smoke the weed. Like Kori said, going into that program all rookies were informed or cognitively you yourself make an assumption that potentially you will drug tested right then and there. They bought that weed for the girls so they could "put out".

[duncan228]

Some info on the Rookie Camp.

NBA rookies take lessons in handling fame, fortune, fans (http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1117404)
By O’Ryan Johnson

Twenty-two years ago the NBA and Boston Celtics legend Thomas “Satch” Sanders formed a crash course for rookie basketball players - essentially Celebrity 101 - where they learned to handle the kinds of crises that were sending many new hoop stars off the cliff.

Money, plus single women, plus hero worship from fans, was adding up to trouble, Sanders said. Things like having only two tickets to the NBA Finals and two dozen people, from the guy who first coached you, to your girlfriend, to your parents begging for seats.

“All of us can remember coming into this life, beginning to make decent money,” he said. “We had friends and family coming out of the woodwork. One of the things you have to learn is how to say no. If you’re stressing out are you really 100 percent focused on the game? Ticket situations can be so stressful. Something that seems so minute . . . can loom large.”

Sanders, a model NBA citizen who played with the great Bill Russell, was tapped to lead the Rookie Transition Program in 1986. The four-day, 48-hour camp has become a right of passage for matriculating stars. It wrapped up Friday in New York, where Sanders, 69, and the NBA’s senior vice president of player development, Mike Bantam, were on hand.

The program itself had a rough start this year. Wednesday, two NBA rookies - Miami Heat guard Mario Chalmers and Memphis Grizzlies forward Darrell Arthur - were tossed from the seminar after hotel security guards found them in a room with two women and a strong smell of marijuana.

Each was fined $20,000 by the league and faces other action.

Bantam said the league employs a peer-to-peer system for the big questions - like how to swallow the giant social cocktail of money, fans and family without choking.

“We put a panel of players together and we let the players ask, ‘How do you deal with that?’ ” Bantam said. “You can’t come in to this business, from college or from Europe, and be prepared for the scrutiny and the pressure.”

The reputations of professional athletes and NBA players in particular have come under fire in recent years for off-court behavior.

Sacramento Kings forward Ron Artest pleaded no contest to domestic violence charges in March 2007. Golden State Warrior guard Steven Jackson has had gun and strip club problems. Each man has landed in court, and both were hit with multiple game suspensions. Bantam brushed off the criticism, saying that per capita the 450 NBA players are far better behaved than society as a whole.

“You take that number and match that against the number of players that have run-ins with the law, it’s a very small percentage,” he said. “I’ll match our record against anybody. If you take that number of 450 guys, half of them have their own foundations to do things that help social causes.”

Though Sanders doesn’t run the camps any longer, he attends each year. He said while society may change, the problems rookies encounter do not. “Nothing much has changed,” he said. “The main thing was that their lifestyle was going to change abruptly. This has helped players avoid the pitfalls.”

[polandprzem]

:lol

[Indazone]

Just do what Josh Howard did. Admit it to the world and be proud of your J smokin ways. Then the NBA doesn't do jack to ya.

[duncan228]

NBA hits Chalmers with $20,000 fine; he won't face a suspension (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/basketball/heat/sfl-flspheat10sbsep10,0,1360543.story?track=rss)
By Ira Winderman | South Florida Sun-Sentinel

The Heat has been informed by the NBA that point guard Mario Chalmers will not be suspended for his role in the incident that led to last week's expulsion from the Rookie Transition Program.

Although a suspension initially was a concern, Chalmers' penalty will be a $20,000 fine, as well as the requirement he repeat the program next year.

The second-round pick out of Kansas was expelled on the eve of the four-day symposium in Rye Brook, N.Y., for an incident involving outside guests at the league hotel.

The scent of marijuana also was noticeable in the room where Chalmers and fellow Kansas product Darrell Arthur were present, with Chalmers last week issuing a statement that he "did not smoke marijuana," an assertion also made by Arthur, a Grizzlies forward drafted in the first round.

Chalmers has since returned to South Florida, where has been working out at AmericanAirlines Arena. While the fine could be appealed, the players' union partnership in the rookie program makes it unlikely such action would be supported.