House votes down massive bailout measure

[Findog]

I'd much rather bomb Dallas than Spain...if I could figure out a way to only bomb the douchebags.

I live in Fort Worth.

[Spur-Addict]

And Obama was taking credit for bringing Republicans and Democrats together to form a compromise :spin


Before the vote- McCain was taking credit for brokering the deal with House Republicans! :lol

They both suck, so how does that make you both look?

[Hook Dem]

After reading all the entries in this thread, I can only come to one conclusion. Nancy Pelosi is most definitely boutons's mother. The correlation is just too much to ignore. Carry on with all the other insults and political jabs. You're doing a wonderful job!:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Dumb bitch.

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/184803.html

[ploto]

And Obama was taking credit for bringing Republicans and Democrats together to form a compromise :spin

You realize the 50-50 compromise deal was upheld by the Democrats and not the Republicans- right?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They both suck, so how does that make you both look?

I'm disappointed in McCain for supporting this shit. They both had an opportunity last week to speak out and both gave political nonanswers.

I was just pointing out to the clown on the left who was laughing at McCain for his comments before the vote this morning that Obama was throwing out even more hyperbole.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You realize the 50-50 compromise deal was upheld by the Democrats and not the Republicans- right?

Dems are socialists. The Republicans that believe in fiscal conservatism stepped up and voted against. I have zero problem with that, Paulson's plan sucked donkey balls.

It was like the idea of signing Rasho to the max - pure stupidity.

[Findog]

Boehner called a presser and basically said "I preside over a caucus of little children. They agree with the policy, but let personality get in the way of doing what's right for the country."

I still can't believe he said that out loud.

In any event, congratulations President-Elect Obama. The calculus is pretty simple: Getting re-elected in my swing district > helping McCain get the Presidency. They know how this is going to play locally and nationally, and they're abandoning McCain to stem the amount of GOP hemorhaging in Congress.

Congratulations President-Elect Obama.

[T Park]

Dems are socialists. The Republicans that believe in fiscal conservatism stepped up and voted against. I have zero problem with that, Paulson's plan sucked donkey balls.

It was like the idea of signing Rasho to the max - pure stupidity.


Had they had a pair and been doing that for the past 4 years, things would be alot freaking different right now.

[Nbadan]

By: Mike Allen
September 29, 2008 04:11 PM EST


Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and his top aides took credit for building a winning bailout coalition – hours before the vote failed and stocks tanked.

The rush to claim he had engineered a victory now looks like a strategic blunder that will prolong the McCain’s campaign’s difficulty in finding a winning message on the economy.

Shortly before the vote, McCain had bragged about his involvement and mocked Sen. Barack Obama for staying on the sidelines.

“I've never been afraid of stepping in to solve problems for the American people, and I'm not going to stop now,” McCain told a rally in Columbus, Ohio. “Sen. Obama took a very different approach to the crisis our country faced. At first he didn't want to get involved. Then he was monitoring the situation.”
McCain, grinning, flashed a sarcastic thumbs up.

“That's not leadership. That's watching from the sidelines,” he added to cheers and applause.

Wisely, in retrospect, McCain initially had been more modest. On Sunday, he said on ABC’s “This Week” that congressional negotiators deserve “great credit” for the bipartisan deal. “"It wasn’t because of me,” McCain said. “They did it themselves.”

But at almost the same time, McCain senior adviser Steve Schmidt was saying on NBC’s “Meet the Press”: “What Sen. McCain was able to do … was to help get all of the parties to the table. There had been announcements by Senate leaders saying that a deal had been reached earlier in the week. There were no votes for that deal.

“Sen. McCain knew time was short and he came back, he listened and he helped put together the framework of getting everybody to the table, which was necessary to produce a package to avoid a financial catastrophe for this country.”

On Monday morning, McCain campaign communications director Jill Hazelbaker said on Fox News that the deal would not have happened “without Sen. McCain.”

“Sen. McCain interrupted his campaign, suspended his campaign activity to come back to Washington to get Republicans around a table,” Hazelbaker said. “Without Sen. McCain, House Republicans would not have appointed a negotiator, which would not have moved this bill forward.

“It’s really Sen. McCain who got all parties around a table to hammer out a deal that hopefully is in the best interests of the American taxpayer.”

After the vote, commentators were harsh. MSNBC’s Chris Matthews said: “He’s like a cavalry commander who said ‘Charge!’ and the Republicans went into retreat.”

Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/14088.html)

[T Park]

I'm disappointed in McCain for supporting this shit. .

As am I.

This would've been the perfect time to preach his fiscal conservatism and explain how under his presidency, reversing spending under Bush would fix alot of problems.

Bumbled and played politician, very very dissapointed.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

As am I.

This would've been the perfect time to preach his fiscal conservatism and explain how under his presidency, reversing spending under Bush would fix alot of problems.

Bumbled and played politician, very very dissapointed.

Yeah, if McCain would have made a statement like Representative Hensarling that could have ended it Friday:


“My top responsibility as an elected official is to protect the families and people who trusted me to represent their interests in Washington. I do not take lightly the critical nature of the credit crisis that our capital markets face today and the grave situation that every American will face should our credit markets freeze and remain frozen. Inaction has never been an option, but the Paulson plan should have never been the only option.

“In my heart and in my mind, I believe that this plan is fraught with unintended consequences, would force generations of taxpayers to pick up the tab for Wall Street losses, and could permanently and fundamentally change the role of government in the American free enterprise system. Once the government socializes losses, it will soon socialize profits. If we lose our ability to fail, we will soon lose our ability to succeed. If we bail out risky behavior, we will soon see even riskier behavior.

“I also believe that this Congress, in a rushed effort to provide stability to a troubled credit market, did not adequately discuss or investigate potential alternatives that would have constituted a work out and not a bail out. Even at this moment, it still remains more important for Congress to do it right than to do it fast. I stand ready, as do many of my colleagues, to stay here for as many days as it takes to do this right.

“For the last week, House conservatives have fought to protect innocent taxpayers from an unprecedented government raid on their wallets to bail out Wall Street from their bad decisions and financial losses. Principled Republicans like Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor helped improve the legislation before us by adding increased taxpayer protections and additional Wall Street accountability. But mere improvement is not the test for support. The test is whether, after weighing both the good and the bad, you believe that the plan ultimately leads America in the right direction. Using that test, I cannot in good conscience support this legislation.”

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Ron Paul calling it before the vote. Speech of the year.

YBVB1Uc0nko

[MannyIsGod]

Its not that I'm in favor of the bailout in oder to save wallstreet. Its that I'm in favor of not having a shit load of Americans lose their job and having this thing spiral out of control. The bailout wasn't going to save us from this shit, it was just going to make it a little less painful. Regardless of everthing you've heard, the government stood to keep most of this money in the end. People here are talkinga bout how great of an investment these properites in favor of not doing the bailout and not thinking about how that lowers the risk of the bailout.

I'm not sure which path is best, but I know if there is no bailout that we're in for a world of hurt. There seems to be an idea here that the money isn't going to dry up or that the credit markets will keep lending when this is the opposite of everything that is happening and has happend during this crisis.

We'll see the way things play out, but all in all I think this is the more painful route to take. If we actually see a dramatic shift in the way government and business ineteract after this then maybe it will be worth it but I don't see taht as some sort of given. I think we could have reached that ending through the bailout as well.

In either case, nothing is a given and we'll just have to see how it plays out. I'm far more pesamistic on this issue than most of you here, so I hope you're all right.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh and for the love of god please spare me the posts saying the GOP was not playing politics. Both they and the Dems were playing obvious poltics here. So just stop. McCain played his stunt last week and is probably the 2nd biggest loser in all of this to Nancy Pelosi. The difference being Pelosi isn't running for President.

McCain's pretty fucked as of right now.

[whottt]

Yeah, if McCain would have made a statement like Representative Hensarling that could have ended it Friday:


As am I.

This would've been the perfect time to preach his fiscal conservatism and explain how under his presidency, reversing spending under Bush would fix alot of problems.

Bumbled and played politician, very very dissapointed.




That's all well and good but the people that share your POV aren't enough to get McCain elected....

[ChuckD]

Not doing the bailout is the rational decision. Unfortunately, the pool of humanity isn't a rational set. Markets are easily stampeded, and people panic. It'[s easy to say "let the bad banks go under", but it won't stop there.

If this starts snowballing, no one will control it.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm not sure which path is best, but I know if there is no bailout that we're in for a world of hurt. There seems to be an idea here that the money isn't going to dry up or that the credit markets will keep lending when this is the opposite of everything that is happening and has happend during this crisis.

We'll see the way things play out, but all in all I think this is the more painful route to take. If we actually see a dramatic shift in the way government and business ineteract after this then maybe it will be worth it but I don't see taht as some sort of given. I think we could have reached that ending through the bailout as well.

In either case, nothing is a given and we'll just have to see how it plays out. I'm far more pesamistic on this issue than most of you here, so I hope you're all right.


Manny, it's going to suck either way. The question is do you want us all to go through a recession or go through a recession and be on the hook for covering a $700 billion fuck up by Wall Street on top of it.

[whottt]

Oh and for the love of god please spare me the posts saying the GOP was not playing politics. Both they and the Dems were playing obvious poltics here. So just stop. McCain played his stunt last week and is probably the 2nd biggest loser in all of this to Nancy Pelosi. The difference being Pelosi isn't running for President.

McCain's pretty fucked as of right now.



The Republican Reps weren't playing politics at all...they were carrying out the will of their constituents...who were giving them an ass chewing.

And their butts entirely on the line to do it. No safety net.

That's what they're elected to do...just because you never see the guys from either party actually doing it doesn't mean it's supposed to be that way.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Oh and for the love of god please spare me the posts saying the GOP was not playing politics. Both they and the Dems were playing obvious poltics here. So just stop. McCain played his stunt last week and is probably the 2nd biggest loser in all of this to Nancy Pelosi. The difference being Pelosi isn't running for President.

McCain's pretty fucked as of right now.

Obama came out yesterday and talked about how he helped broker this bipartisan deal. I'd say he looks pretty fucking stupid today too (and there's also a story out that he released a statement kissing ass before the vote today, then had to retract it after the fact).

[MannyIsGod]

The Republican Reps weren't playing politics at all...they were carrying out the will of their constituents...who were giving them an ass chewing.

O Rly? So then telling the Dems they had the votes wasn't playing politics?

:lol

Yeah, OK.

[ChumpDumper]

Not doing the bailout is the rational decision. Unfortunately, the pool of humanity isn't a rational set. Markets are easily stampeded, and people panic. It'[s easy to say "let the bad banks go under", but it won't stop there.

If this starts snowballing, no one will control it.True enough. The banks that failed this past week were finished off by good old fashioned bank runs. News of no bailout is caused some markets to lose almost 10% of their value this afternoon. It's a shame it's all connected, but it is.

[ChuckD]

Manny, it's going to suck either way. The question is do you want us all to go through a recession or go through a recession and be on the hook for covering a $700 billion fuck up by Wall Street on top of it.

If this goes south, it'll make the 1930s look like a fucking tea party. We're already on the hook for several trillions. What's another $700B when it could be the difference between a recession and Ragnarok?

[MannyIsGod]

Obama came out yesterday and talked about how he helped broker this bipartisan deal. I'd say he looks pretty fucking stupid today too (and there's also a story out that he released a statement kissing ass before the vote today, then had to retract it after the fact).

McCain looks worse. There's no fucking way to spin it as though Obama looks worse than McCain. They ALL look bad, and thats obvious, but there's no fucking way you can spin McCain looking better than Obama coming out of this mess considering McCain's stunt.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, it's going to suck either way. The question is do you want us all to go through a recession or go through a recession and be on the hook for covering a $700 billion fuck up by Wall Street on top of it.

Thats a guess. Trying to figure out how this is going to pay out years from now is simply a guess. All I know is that for sure this is going to suck in the near term. I'm not counting out 10-15% unemployment.

[Spur-Addict]

Ron Paul calling it before the vote. Speech of the year.

YBVB1Uc0nko

Undervalued public servant.

[T Park]

Ron Paul 1000% on.


Well said Ron Paul :tu

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

If this goes south, it'll make the 1930s look like a fucking tea party. We're already on the hook for several trillions. What's another $700B when it could be the difference between a recession and Ragnarok.

We lost, what 7% today? The famed crash of that time saw the DOW lose 90% of its value in one day.

What's the difference in another 700 billion? It ain't going to solve the problem, just prolong the agony.

Look, something has to be done, but this bill sucked.

Put it another way...

Say someone takes you hostage and stands there with a gun to your head. Obviously the police need to do something about the situation. But aiming a bazooka at the bad guy's head and pulling the trigger and killing you both probably isn't a good solution, would you agree?

Same thing here. This does nothing to help "Main Street". It won't even keep the stock market from correcting like it needs to. All it does is bail out the rich fuckers who got us into this situation and give them reason to do it again with the lesson that if you're going to fuck the system, go big - we'll bail you out!

Banks failed in the S&L crisis in the 80s. Banks failed during the Great Depression. Know what though? Others stepped up to take their place. Others would do the same with this all as well.

It's all moot though, a deal will get done this week, I just hope the final terms are less of a screw job for you and me and everyone else on this board.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

McCain looks worse. There's no fucking way to spin it as though Obama looks worse than McCain. They ALL look bad, and thats obvious, but there's no fucking way you can spin McCain looking better than Obama coming out of this mess considering McCain's stunt.

I'm not saying Obama looked worse than McCain. They both look dumb, but the media will give Obama a free pass as usual.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Thats a guess. Trying to figure out how this is going to pay out years from now is simply a guess. All I know is that for sure this is going to suck in the near term. I'm not counting out 10-15% unemployment.

And in the long term, if it's passed, you're looking at about 10% annual inflation for probably the next decade.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not saying Obama looked worse than McCain. They both look dumb, but the media will give Obama a free pass as usual.

:lol

Yeah whatever.

[Yonivore]

:lol

Yeah whatever.

Did Obama vote on the bill?

[whottt]

What confuses me about Mannny's stance is that he's so concerned about jobs and the economy yet he is so in the tank for a guy that is going to completely and totally cripple the economy.


I mean do you realize it was just two weeks ago Obama was talking about raising taxes arcross the board? On many of these institutions that are now going under?

Raising property taxes on the same people that can't make their house payments?

Raising corporate taxes and payroll taxes on an already cash strapped economy?

It was insane...if you were truly studying the economy and you are concerned about it...you aren't going to be voting for Obama.


That 600-1000 bucks he's going to give the poor is not going to be worth what it does to this economy...and anyone shuld be able to see the money isn't there to do anything Obama is still saying he is going to do.


You want to see out of touch...take a good hard look at Obama's economic plan. And watch how fast he's changing it due to the completely unrealistic things he is promising.

[MannyIsGod]

And in the long term, if it's passed, you're looking at about 10% annual inflation for probably the next decade.

:lol Another guess. Its not like we're going to have a fiscal conservative government all of a sudden AHF.

[ChumpDumper]

We lost, what 7% today? The famed crash of that time saw the DOW lose 90% of its value in one day.I thought it took about a lot longer for that decrease from September 1929 to July 1932.

[MannyIsGod]

Can I just start pulling shit figures out of my ass too?

[Yonivore]

Of course not. But where the fuck was he today?

I don't agree with McCain's position but, he took one. Obama is waiting -- as usual -- to see how this plays out before he does anything.

As a result, his party's House Leader Pelosi screwed the pooch with her divisively partisan rant just before the vote.

This is the absolute worst Congress ever, led by the absolute worst speaker ever. Fucking retards.

[T Park]

What confuses me about Mannny's stance is that he's so concerned about jobs and the economy yet he is so in the tank for a guy that is going to completely and totally cripple the economy.


I mean do you realize it was just two weeks ago Obama was talking about raising taxes arcross the board? On many of these institutions that are now going under?

Raising property taxes on the same people that can't make their house payments?

Raising corporate taxes and payroll taxes on an already cash strapped economy?

It was insane...if you were truly studying the economy and you are concerned about it...you aren't going to be voting for Obama.


That 600-1000 bucks he's going to give the poor is not going to be worth what it does to this economy...and anyone shuld be able to see the money isn't there to do anything Obama is still saying he is going to do.


You want to see out of touch...take a good hard look at Obama's economic plan. And watch how fast he's changing it due to the completely unrealistic things he is promising.

You've just described about 90% of the people voting for him

They get him in, then get pissed when they see their taxes have been raised.

[clambake]

his party's House Leader Pelosi screwed the pooch with her divisively partisan rant just before the vote.

feelings first and country second?

[ChumpDumper]

Did Obama vote on the bill?Seeing as he is a member of the Senate and not the House of Representatives, no.

You even FAIL with your questions.

[whottt]

O Rly? So then telling the Dems they had the votes wasn't playing politics?

:lol

Yeah, OK.

My guess is the Dems tried again, as they have done several times, to get special interest pork thrown into this deal.

The stance of the house Republicans is pretty clear...if you can figure what the fucking Democrats are doing...you''re the best man in this thread.

If it's all a plot to get rid of Pelosi...I applaud them.

[MannyIsGod]

Your right Whottt. Thanks for showing me to the light. I never thought about my choice at all. I made it on a whim because I thought the term Obamessiah was catchy. I've also never posted that I disagree with Obama's economic policy. Never.

I'm going to vote for Palin/McCain now. Thanks Whottt. NO REALLY, Thanks.

[MannyIsGod]

My guess is the Dems tried again, as they have done several times, to get special interest pork thrown into this deal.

The stance of the house Republicans is pretty clear...if you can figure what the fucking Democrats are doing...you''re the best man in this thread.

If it's all a plot to get rid of Pelosi...I applaud them.

Oh, its a plot to get rid of Pelosi but they didn't play politics. K. Thanks, once again for this brilliant insight.

[ElNono]

My guess is the Dems tried again, as they have done several times, to get special interest pork thrown into this deal.

The stance of the house Republicans is pretty clear...if you can figure what the fucking Democrats are doing...you''re the best man in this thread.

If it's all a plot to get rid of Pelosi...I applaud them.

That's your problem. You always guess. And you mostly guess wrong.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

:lol Another guess. Its not like we're going to have a fiscal conservative government all of a sudden AHF.

The real inflation rate in our country this year is a little north of 6%. I'm talking what it really costs for goods, not what the government tells you the inflation rate is.

We go into a recession that number will be in double figures, and in a depression it will stay there for years.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Look the Republicans played politics today. So did the Dems. Was that a little childish on their part? Sure. Did that stupid cunt and her leadership group deserve it? Yeah.

[whottt]

Your right Whottt. Thanks for showing me to the light. I never thought about my choice at all. I made it on a whim because I thought the term Obamessiah was catchy. I've also never posted that I disagree with Obama's economic policy. Never.

I'm going to vote for Palin/McCain now. Thanks Whottt. NO REALLY, Thanks.

I just don't get how you can be freaking out about this economy but unconcerned with an economc plan of pure fantasy that is going to cost jobs.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

It just pisses me off that Dems are screaming that this is all the fault of the Republicans.

Five Democraptic House committee chairs voted no today. And several more were told to vote no so that Republicans would have to provide enough votes for this to pass so both parties are responsible for the fallout when we all get fucked in the next couple of years and want to hold someone accountable.

If that's not partisan bullshit, I don't know what is.

[ChuckD]

I thought it took about eight months for that decrease from September 1929 to July 1930.

July 1932. The single day of Black Monday was 13%. We could easily see at two day fall of that much today and tomorrow.

I went stage 1 today, fully tapping my HELOC. Lending will be the first thing to go, and a line that appears on your bank web page could be gone tomorrow. Even great, sound banks will have a tough time getting funds to lend, whether your credit is excellent or your house still has it's value. They just won't have the dinero and the line will evaporate. If this turns out to be a bump, I pay the money back with one month of 5.95% interest. If not, I have five figures of cash that I can get my hands on if the market turns further south.

[ChumpDumper]

July 1932. The single day of Black Monday was 13%. We could easily see at two day fall of that much today and tomorrow.You were right - it took almost three years to drop that 90%.

October 20, 1987

The stock market was devastated by the worst one-day collapse in history yesterday in a pandemonium of panic selling that shattered all records and swamped stock exchanges around the country and overseas.

The best-known market barometer -- the Dow Jones average of 30 industrial stocks -- plummeted 508 points, five times the previous record set last Friday. The Dow closed at 1738, dropping 22.6 percent, or nearly double the 12.8 percent plunge of Oct. 29, 1929, the crash that began the Great Depression.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/longterm/blackm/87oct.htm

[clambake]

not to mention that banks will now be informing business owners that they'll need to personally guarantee their exsisting notes, regardless of a bailout.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I thought it took about eight months for that decrease from September 1929 to July 1930.

Sorry, got my wires crossed. It lost 90% of its value, its worse day was double percentagewise what we lost today.

[whottt]

Oh, its a plot to get rid of Pelosi but they didn't play politics. K. Thanks, once again for this brilliant insight.

If it is a plot to get rid of her it is definitely politics, good politics...but I wasn't talking exclusively about the Republicans there...I was talking about some of the Democrats as well.

[ElNono]

If it is a plot to get rid of her it is definitely politics, good politics...but I wasn't talking exclusively about the Republicans there...I was talking about some of the Democrats as well.

You need to lay off that weed...

[MannyIsGod]

Whottt I'm obviously voting for Obama because of I prefer Biden's tits to Palins.

[Wild Cobra]

U do realize banks also borrow from bigger banks to loan money out? So if banks cannot borrow money from their bigger brothers, then they won't loan money. period.

I've addressed this. Please keep up.

The solution is to let the companies in crisis fail. Let the remaining good ones handle the business. I also implicitly said that the better solution is to have the government back the loans of these good lenders. The government just takes the place as backing the loan rather than a corrupt larger corporation.


Good thing I moved my 401K money out of stocks weeks ago.
But you're still buying into stocks, right? They're cheaper now. I hope you are.

[whottt]

I also implicitly said that the better solution is to have the government back the loans of these good lenders.

S'all I'm sayin'. Investors will back them....it's ridiculous.

[George Gervin's Afro]

It just pisses me off that Dems are screaming that this is all the fault of the Republicans.

Five Democraptic House committee chairs voted no today. And several more were told to vote no so that Republicans would have to provide enough votes for this to pass so both parties are responsible for the fallout when we all get fucked in the next couple of years and want to hold someone accountable.

If that's not partisan bullshit, I don't know what is.


Uh. Mike Pence took full credit for sinking this bill? He made the claim that House COnservatives proudly stood their ground. SO what do you make of that?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Uh. Mike Pence took full credit for sinking this bill? He made the claim that House COnservatives proudly stood their ground. SO what do you make of that?

All I'm seeing on the news is Pelosi, Paulson, etc. blame everything that happened today, from the vote failing to the stock market tanking 777 points, on the Republicans.

I'm proud the conservatives said no to this bill, 'bout time someone in D.C. got a fucking clue and listened to their constituents.

[George Gervin's Afro]

All I'm seeing on the news is Pelosi, Paulson, etc. blame everything that happened today, from the vote failing to the stock market tanking 777 points, on the Republicans.

I'm proud the conservatives said no to this bill, 'bout time someone in D.C. got a fucking clue and listened to their constituents.

So Paulson and Pelosi were right in claiming the GOP was responsible for this falling short.

[KenMcCoy]

I'm with Newt on this...no 700 Billion...suspend the mark to market accounting rules immediately (the plan gives the authority to consider suspending them)...changing the rules will free up liquidity immediately without injecting cash into the system.



According to a small but powerful group of America's financial decision-makers—mostly supply-siders and those in their thrall—the chief cause of the credit market meltdown is not folly, or reckless lending, or the demise of America's financial management. It's an accounting rule.
"Mark-to-market" is a seemingly innocuous term for the requirement that companies, banks, hedge funds, mutual funds, and the like report the market price of the financial instruments they hold and trade. (Here's some good background (http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/article.aspx?id=232738) from Morningstar.) Mutual funds that own stocks make such a report every day. Publicly held firms like Bear Stearns must do so at the end of every quarter, and hedge funds must do so on a rolling basis to reassure their creditors that the assets they've put up for collateral are still worth something. Mark-to-market is thus crucial to the functioning of transparent markets.....
When credit started to go bad, market participants had to write down the value of such assets. For institutions holding onto bank loans—an asset for which there is an active secondary market—marking to market was relatively simple. If markets priced bank debt of companies with a particular credit rating at 85 cents on the dollar, banks had to write down 15 cents of the value of each dollar of the loan. This process helped drive the massive write-downs seen at banks like UBS and Citigroup.
But for the complex new financial instruments, the valuations became far more unstable. Many hedge funds and financial institutions had borrowed huge sums of money to buy assets for which there wasn't an active market. When that debt started to go bad, it triggered a chain of unfortunate events. In many instances, funds were forced to sell assets to meet margin calls. Occasionally, creditors would seize assets and sell them. (That's what happened to the Bear Stearns hedge funds that failed last year.) This spiraling activity had the effect of further depressing prices for such instruments. In some instances, buyers disappeared entirely. The valuations of these new instruments also plummeted because of market psychology. In establishing value for assets, funds and banks often relied on newly created indices, such as the Markit ABX indices (http://www.markit.com/information/products/category/indices/abx.html). Since those indices are actively traded by investors, they can be driven up and down (mostly down) by speculation and fear. The end result: The banks and funds holding subprime bonds (which is to say, pretty much the entire global financial complex) have been forced to massively cut the mark-to-market value of their holdings because those values are based on the incredibly pessimistic indices.
In recent weeks, some have been arguing that just as Abraham Lincoln suspended habeas corpus in a time of war, perhaps regulators should suspend mark-to-market in this time of crisis. Paul Craig Roberts, a veteran supply-sider and former Reagan administration official, wrote (http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts03112008.html) on March 11 that the mark-to-market rule "is imploding the U.S. financial system by requiring financial institutions to value subprime mortgages at their current market values." His solution: Suspend the rule, let financial institutions "keep the troubled instruments at book value, or 85-90 percent of book value, until a market forms that can sort out values, and allow financial institutions to write down the subprime mortgages and other troubled instruments over time." In other words, let's assign an imaginary happy value to these assets until the seas grow calmer. Steve Forbes echoed the sentiment in his column (http://www.forbes.com/home/columnists/forbes/2008/0407/015.html) in Forbes, calling for a 12-month suspension of mark-to-market in "exotic financial instruments (primarily packages of subprime mortgages)." The reason: "It's preposterous to try to guess what these new instruments are worth in a time of panic."
http://www.slate.com/id/2187880/

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Did Obama vote on the bill?
he's still waiting for the call.

[Shastafarian]

he's still waiting for the call.

When the Senate votes on the bill. Your joke would have been funny had it not been based on complete idiocy.

[ChumpDumper]

God damn the board Republicans are some ignorant mother fuckers.

Obama is in the SENATE.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

[RandomGuy]

Of course not. But where the fuck was he today?

I don't agree with McCain's position but, he took one. Obama is waiting -- as usual -- to see how this plays out before he does anything.

Here is the thing about this post:

If the situation had been reversed, and Obama was saying he was in the thick of this, and McCain appeared to be hanging back, you would be saying exactly the opposite. Your position has more to do with scoring cheap political points than any honest evaluation of responses.

I know it, you know it, and everyond here knows it.

The factual problem you have is that McCain was phoning it in from another state entirely, just like Obama, even as he was criticising Obama for not being there.

[RandomGuy]

The funny thing is that the Republicans on the board started parroting the party line as soon as that idiot claimed that there were Republicans that switched votes just because they got their feelings hurt.

They started aping that without realizing the rather nasty implication of that statement:

This is essentially an admission that there are Republicans in congress who thought they were doing the right thing in voting for the bill, but put their feelings over doing what they thought was right. Party over country.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The funny thing is that the Republicans on the board started parroting the party line as soon as that idiot claimed that there were Republicans that switched votes just because they got their feelings hurt.

They started aping that without realizing the rather nasty implication of that statement:

This is essentially an admission that there are Republicans in congress who thought they were doing the right thing in voting for the bill, but put their feelings over doing what they thought was right. Party over country.


So where's your criticism of Pelosi? Hypocrites as usual.

[DarrinS]

So, Obama really rallied his troops to get behind this bailout, right?


140 - Yes
95 - No


Hmmmm.

[TheMadHatter]

So, Obama really rallied his troops to get behind this bailout, right?


140 - Yes
95 - No


Hmmmm.

He got 2/3 of the Democrats to support a bill endorsed by a Republican President. I'd say he did OK.

McCain failed to get his House Republicans in line, thus the bill failed.

[Shastafarian]

I think people fail to realize that no one liked this bill. Democrats and republicans alike didn't want to pass it. But democrats were able to get over 60% of their caucus to vote for it (and yes it was a Republican President's bill). The republicans couldn't even get 40% of their caucus.

[RandomGuy]

The funny thing is that the Republicans on the board started parroting the party line as soon as that idiot claimed that there were Republicans that switched votes just because they got their feelings hurt.

They started aping that without realizing the rather nasty implication of that statement:

This is essentially an admission that there are Republicans in congress who thought they were doing the right thing in voting for the bill, but put their feelings over doing what they thought was right. Party over country.



So where's your criticism of Pelosi? Hypocrites as usual.

:lol I guess it takes a hypocrite...

:rolleyes Fine. Pelosi probably should have passed on the opportunity to blame Bush. It was silly.

Now will you PLEASE point out the 12 Republicans that decided their feelings where hurt and decided to change their votes?

[RandomGuy]

So, Obama really rallied his troops to get behind this bailout, right?


140 - Yes
95 - No


Hmmmm.

Once again, Obama is in the Senate.

Once again, neither McCain nor Obama are part of the leadership of either wing of congress.

I don't hold McSame to the fire for the failure of the GOP members of congress to get in line, as that would be just as silly as your lame-ass attempt to do the same for Obama.

I do find it sad and pathetic that McCain started claiming credit for the passage of the thing before it failed.

Before this election season, I really had some fair respect for McCain. That vanished when the Straight Talk express was replaced by a Bush/Cheney style No Talk Express.

Any McCain legitimate claim to being a "maverick" vanished a while back. when he started hiring and getting advice from the fucking same GOP hacks that have fucked this country up in the first place.

[Wild Cobra]

Uh. Mike Pence took full credit for sinking this bill? He made the claim that House COnservatives proudly stood their ground. SO what do you make of that?
A conservative would not vote YES on this bill.