Your Vote, Your Reasons

[Extra Stout]

I think Rasho Nesterovic might actually be the anti-Christ. I'm sure he's well-spoken in Slovenian; he's tall and handsome; there are thousands of people who come to watch him everytime he performs. Until it's proven otherwise, I'm fundamentally convinced that Rasho Nesterovic is simply waiting to reveal his real self.

http://re3.yt-thm-a02.yimg.com/image/25/m2/2109952132
I think one of the Bible Codes when interpreted properly calls the Anti-Christ "the tyrant with the blue lips." Nostradamus said something similar.

[Shelly]

Well, according to the Bible, the hate-filled person who thinks he can judge your eternal destiny gets the "talk to the hand" treatment himself from the IC/XC.

On the other hand, I get a LOT more of the "Admit I'm going to hell! Admit I'm going to hell, you mindless sheep!" treatment than the "As long as you aren't throwing it in my face, whatever" treatment. When the former say it themselves, what's left to admit?

What does Tlong have do with all of this????

[ElNono]

I don't have all the answers. I may not even have most of them.

All I can tell you is that Jesus is the Savior of the world- the only one that has existed and the only one that will ever exist.

Futhermore, if you really want real and lasting positive change in your lives, this country, and in the world, you all need to look to Jesus- not to President Bush, not to Senator McCain, and not Senator Obama, Oprah, or Dr. Phil.

Anyone who claims that they can fix your life for you is a liar. The best any man can do is lead his fellowmen to Jesus- the ONE and ONLY Answer.

I tell you all this not to judge any of you but because I care about what happens to you and I have a responsibility before God to tell you the Truth as it is written in the Bible.

I regret that this conversation ever turned to Senator Obama and the possibility of him being the Anti Christ because what matters most and is ultimately most effective is to exalt the Truth, not wasting time contemplating.

:jack

You are exactly all that is wrong with part of this country. And it's not your religious belief. It's the fact that you have gone completely irrational that is the problem.
You don't think by yourself anymore. You live in fear. You fear that Obama is the Anti-Christ. You fear that that you might choose incorrectly. You fear that you might anger your god. You fear that anything non-christian might ruin your world. All your fears are intrinsically bound by one common denominator: You no longer think rationally. You are intellectually dishonest with yourself.
I'm being absolutely serious when I say you should seek professional help.
You might be the most polite and sincere person in the world, but you're in dire need of help. The sooner, the better.

[angel_luv]

What does Tlong have do with all of this????

:lol :lol

Poor T-Long.

[peewee's lovechild]

My primary concern is electing someone who loves, listens to, and obeys Jesus because when you seek Jesus first, all things are added to you.
( Matthew 6:33)

George W. Bush accepted jesus into his life as his savior.

He now has the blood of thousands on his hands.

Is this what Jesus wanted?

Can you answer that?

George W. Bush had great charisma when he ran for President. The populace loved him. He said all the right christian things to get elected.

There's been nothing but bloodshed during his Presidency.

Is that not your definition of the Anti-Christ?

[peewee's lovechild]

If you're insinuating Hiltler was a Christian then you need to spend less time on liberal blogs and more time in real history books.

He had ties and pacts with the Vatican.

Read a history book you ignorant son of a bitch.

[TheMadHatter]

Fuck you SpursTalk! I haven't been able to get any work done the past hour because I've been laughing my ass off at this thread. Seriously, Findog you comparing Jordan to the anti-christ had my sides hurting for a good 10 minutes.

I would just like to point out to those of you out there who wonder how Islamic children can grow up and become suicide bombers, it's because of religious indoctrination. Angel Luv is no different than the products of these imams in Pakistan in her indoctrination of Christianity. While I'm sure she is a nice and wonderful person, her views are extremely dangerous and furthermore people with her views should never come close to any position of power in this country. I'd further argue that this country would be better off if people like her didn't vote.

I think a rational observer of the Christian faith would come to the conclusion that it is for the most part based on fiction. I don't want to sound dismissive, but there is no evidence to suggest to me that the stories in the Bible are anything more than a fairytale. Jesus may have existed historically, but we have zero evidence or proof that he was the Son of God or anything of the like. What was written in the Bible was written many many years later by men, and further what exists in the Bible today was decided by a Council of men. They purposefully threw out texts that didn't agree with the image of God they wanted to portray. This just doesn't strike me as the way God would go about revealing himself to the world.

Further if the word of God exists in the Bible, explain to me why this piece of text is in there?



However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)

It's either God's word in its entirety or it's not God's word. You can't pick and choose what is God's word if God intended for man to write down his word thousands of years ago.

[Trainwreck2100]

George W. Bush accepted jesus into his life as his savior.

He now has the blood of thousands on his hands.

Is this what Jesus wanted?

Can you answer that?

George W. Bush had great charisma when he ran for President. The populace loved him. He said all the right christian things to get elected.

There's been nothing but bloodshed during his Presidency.

Is that not your definition of the Anti-Christ?
That first year was ok

[Extra Stout]

So, for the billions of people that have lived and die, and continue to do so, without accepting this jesus character . . . they're fucked?

What kind of sadistic god is this thing you worship?

The problem with you people is that you want to belong to a "Members Only" club.

Your type of mentality, as well as those of your ilk, is what keeps humanity from progressing.
Summary of biblical teaching:

People who hear the Gospel and reject it: excluded

People who hear the Gospel, and only nominally accept it, like one would a coupon or free ticket: excluded

People who hear the Gospel, and accept it, but later decide they like wordly pleasures better, or think they can have it both ways: excluded (gulp)

People who hear the Gospel, accept it, and then actually follow what Jesus told them to do: included

People who never hear the Gospel: indeterminate

[peewee's lovechild]

I appreciate the link. Thank you. :)

Since I provided the link, and it gives proof that Obama has accepted Jesus as his savior . . . will you admit that he can't possibly be the Anti-Christ?

He satisfied your need to have him say he accepted Jesus as his savior?

Will you do it and stop this idiocy, or will just spew what your pastor has made you believe?

[tp2021]

McCain told Beliefnet, "I've sort of evolved in my religious faith. And I think probably because of my failings and mistakes in life I'm a much bigger believer in redemption. I really believe that redemption is a very important part of our religion. I'm much more of a believer in a loving God, a personal God. I'm much less inclined in every way to believe in a vengeful God." What's this I see?

[nkdlunch]

Fuck you SpursTalk! I haven't been able to get any work done the past hour because I've been laughing my ass off at this thread. Seriously, Findog you comparing Jordan to the anti-christ had my sides hurting for a good 10 minutes.

I would just like to point out to those of you out there who wonder how Islamic children can grow up and become suicide bombers, it's because of religious indoctrination. Angel Luv is no different than the products of these imams in Pakistan in her indoctrination of Christianity. While I'm sure she is a nice and wonderful person, her views are extremely dangerous and furthermore people with her views should never come close to any position of power in this country. I'd further argue that this country would be better off if people like her didn't vote.

I think a rational observer of the Christian faith would come to the conclusion that it is for the most part based on fiction. I don't want to sound dismissive, but there is no evidence to suggest to me that the stories in the Bible are anything more than a fairytale. Jesus may have existed historically, but we have zero evidence or proof that he was the Son of God or anything of the like. What was written in the Bible was written many many years later by men, and further what exists in the Bible today was decided by a Council of men. They purposefully threw out texts that didn't agree with the image of God they wanted to portray. This just doesn't strike me as the way God would go about revealing himself to the world.

Further if the word of God exists in the Bible, explain to me why this piece of text is in there?



It's either God's word in its entirety or it's not God's word. You can't pick and choose what is God's word if God intended for man to write down his word thousands of years ago.

This is exactly why I said I now better understand why the Holocaust and Inquisition came to happen. It is because of people like angel luv.

I am sure most common german civilians in nazi germany were polite and good people like angel luv. But by becoming sheep of their society and religion, they allowed one of the worst events in history to happen.

just look at history. Most, if not all of teh worst/evil historical events was started in the name or religion.

[Anti.Hero]

Bob Barr and then the rest repubs.

[Findog]

Wasn't the Bible put together at a religious conference about 300 years after Jesus died?

[2centsworth]

He had ties and pacts with the Vatican.

Read a history book you ignorant son of a bitch.

I know you're a troll-like looking creature, but I'll treat you as an equal if you show a little common decency. You grew up in a christian household, but does that make you a Christian?

[Shastafarian]

Wasn't the Bible put together at a religious conference about 300 years after Jesus died?

Yes. The Council of Nicaea.

[101A]

Summary of biblical teaching:

People who hear the Gospel and reject it: excluded

People who hear the Gospel, and only nominally accept it, like one would a coupon or free ticket: excluded

People who hear the Gospel, and accept it, but later decide they like wordly pleasures better, or think they can have it both ways: excluded (gulp)

People who hear the Gospel, accept it, and then actually follow what Jesus told them to do: included

People who never hear the Gospel: indeterminate

:toast

[angel_luv]

:jack

You are exactly all that is wrong with part of this country. And it's not your religious belief. It's the fact that you have gone completely irrational that is the problem.
You don't think by yourself anymore. You live in fear. You fear that Obama is the Anti-Christ. You fear that that you might choose incorrectly. You fear that you might anger your god. You fear that anything non-christian might ruin your world. All your fears are intrinsically bound by one common denominator: You no longer think rationally. You are intellectually dishonest with yourself.
I'm being absolutely serious when I say you should seek professional help.
You might be the most polite and sincere person in the world, but you're in dire need of help. The sooner, the better.


I am not afraid- at all. I assure you.

I am aware of the very real spiritual realities that are constantly at work in and have always existed in this world.

There is God who loves us and there is Satan who is out to destroy us all.

Your life on earth will either be spent in God's hands with His blessings or without help under the relentless attack of Satan.
Which of the two occurs is up to you to choose, as is the destination of your eternal soul.

John 10:

"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.

The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep.

The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.

But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.


Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep.

All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.

I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.


"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.


The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.

The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—

just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.

I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

At these words the Jews were again divided.

Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?"

But others said, "These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"

[Shastafarian]

I am not afraid- at all. I assure you.

I am aware of the very real spiritual realities that are constantly at work in and have always existed in this world.

There is God who loves us and there is Satan who is out to destroy us all.

Your life on earth will either be spent in God's hands with His blessings or without help under the relentless attack of Satan.
Which of the two occurs is up to you to choose, as is the destination of your eternal soul.

John 10:

"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber.

The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep.

The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.

When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.

But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."

Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.


Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep.

All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them.

I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture.

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.


"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.


The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it.

The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—

just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep.

I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again.

No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

At these words the Jews were again divided.

Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen to him?"

But others said, "These are not the sayings of a man possessed by a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?"

Oh Jesus

[tp2021]

Oh Jesus

Precisely

[Shastafarian]

Precisely

Exactly

[spurster]

Pretty amazing ignorance.

Regarding doing all things by Jesus, you should look at the history of all the religious wars between Christians, wars started by Christians, and persecution of others by Christians. It's not pretty, and they all thought they were doing these things by Jesus. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

[Oh, Gee!!]

Exactly

Indubitably

[BacktoBasics]

Mental Illness Forum

[101A]

This is exactly why I said I now better understand why the Holocaust and Inquisition came to happen. It is because of people like angel luv.

I am sure most common german civilians in nazi germany were polite and good people like angel luv. But by becoming sheep of their society and religion, they allowed one of the worst events in history to happen.

just look at history. Most, if not all of teh worst/evil historical events was started in the name or religion.

Many, yes.

Crusades = Religion.

Hitler/Nazis = Religion

9/11 = Religion

However, a great many have been killed in the name of liberalism, also:

Stalin = Liberal

Mao = Liberal

[PixelPusher]

People who never hear the Gospel: indeterminate

Ah, the great dodge.

I can at least respect consistency of the Bible thumpers who unequivocaly state that the "never heards" are all burning in hell.

[peewee's lovechild]

Summary of biblical teaching:

People who hear the Gospel and reject it: excluded

People who hear the Gospel, and only nominally accept it, like one would a coupon or free ticket: excluded

People who hear the Gospel, and accept it, but later decide they like wordly pleasures better, or think they can have it both ways: excluded (gulp)

People who hear the Gospel, accept it, and then actually follow what Jesus told them to do: included

People who never hear the Gospel: indeterminate

That's convenient.

[DarkReign]

Christianity does indeed make that exclusive claim. It does not necessarily follow that Christians therefore believe that they are superior to unbelievers. Doctrinally that assertion would be false. If a Christian really understands the Gospel, he should be the humblest person on Earth.

In reality, there are a lot of supposed Christians who play the holier-than-thou game.

I was waiting for you to weigh in.


On the other hand, I sometimes struggle to understand why people who recoil from the God of the Bible nevertheless take offense at the idea that they might have to stay away from him for eternity. Wouldn't that be your preference?

I think you struggle with the wrong notion. Those like me do not struggle with God, we struggle with church and the creations of man in the name of God.

Let me put it this way so its clear.

If the Bible is true, every word of it, no interpretation, no bullshit, then that is a God I care not to meet.

But if the Bible is metaphorical and its only the overarching sentiment that needs to be heeded, and the rest of the exclusionary nature of the Bible is the parts that humans put in for tools of control, then God is truly all loving and I would enjoy meeting him very much.

Finally, even outside the Bible, if Jesus is the ONLY path to God (his Father), then again, I feel sorry for those who werent born into Christianity and have no means of even hearing of it. Like the jungles of Africa or the Aborigines in Australia, because they are supremely fucked.

Which is why I dont believe that bullshit. If God is real, then He resides and waits for all man, regardless of creed or their profession to His son. The Bible is nothing more than a man-made construct of control. If Jesus did live and die as it says, then his words and its meaning have been so twisted and misinterpreted and otherwise molested in order to fit the worldview of those who posthumously wrote it as to become irrelevant to Jesus' original intention.

And for that perversion, the Churches who preach this heresy have a special place in hell reserved for them.

All in all, I believe in a God, just not the God most people think of when considering the prospect. My God is life itself. The morality that exists in you when born, that innate difference of knowing right and wrong. That murder and theft is bad, while charity and good will feels good. That is God, no more, no less. What happens when we die? Who gives a shit.

[Shastafarian]

Stalin = Liberal

Mao = Liberal

:lol

[peewee's lovechild]

I know you're a troll-like looking creature, but I'll treat you as an equal if you show a little common decency. You grew up in a christian household, but does that make you a Christian?

Did he or did he not have ties and pacts with the Vatican?

Answer the question.

[romad_20]

Indubitably

Quite

[2centsworth]

Many, yes.

Crusades = Religion.

Hitler/Nazis = Religion

9/11 = Religion

However, a great many have been killed in the name of liberalism, also:

Stalin = Liberal

Mao = Liberal

Hitler was a Nietzsche disciple

[hater]

Since I provided the link, and it gives proof that Obama has accepted Jesus as his savior . . . will you admit that he can't possibly be the Anti-Christ?

He satisfied your need to have him say he accepted Jesus as his savior?

Will you do it and stop this idiocy, or will just spew what your pastor has made you believe?

I've already asked her 3 times. She is obviously ignoring facts.

This is the most disturbing part of this whole thread. even after being proven wrong that Obama is not a christian. She still does not take back that he is not the antichrist.

[DarkReign]

you still don't get it. Jesus is the ultimate sacrifice for our sins. Accepting that sacrifice is the only acceptable punishment for our sins.

It's the most tolerant and loving sacrifice ever. That means we don't have to win good favor and salvation is available to everyone.

Right, but I must acknowledge Jesus' sacrifice alone and specifically. Not some other dudes, Jesus' sacrifice.

No compute on that one, hombré. Much too exclusionary. That means Muslims, Taoists, Buddhists, etc are all going to hell...and woe be to the tribal people left on this planet too.

[angel_luv]

I have to leave my first place of work to go to my second job now.

To sum it up.

Suspicions and concerns aside, I cannot prove that ANYONE is the Anti Christ. There is no need as the Anti Christ will reveal himself in due time.

The World needs Jesus. We all do. Those of you who do not yet know Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior I am praying that you accept Him soon.
Those who already love Jesus, I pray you stick close to Him as I strive to.

I sincerely hope that both Senators McCain and Obama are sincere Christians and that they will allow Jesus to guide them as this country's President.

And finally, I got From Way Downtown to admit that Rasho is handsome.
:)

[peewee's lovechild]

I have to leave my first place of work to go to my second job now.

To sum it up.

Suspicions and concerns aside, I cannot prove that ANYONE is the Anti Christ. There is no need as the Anti Christ will reveal himself in due time.

The World needs Jesus. We all do. Those of you who do not yet know Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior I am praying that you accept Him soon.
Those who already love Jesus, I pray you stick close to Him as I strive to.

I sincerely hope that both Senators McCain and Obama are sincere Christians and that they will allow Jesus to guide them as this country's President.

And finally, I got From Way Downtown to admit that Rasho is handsome.
:)


NO!!

You don't get to ignore the facts.

You said you had no proof that Obama had accepted Jesus and therefore he might be the anti-Christ.

I provided that proof.

You either correct what you said or you go down on SpursTalk as an extreme hypocrite.

Which is it?

[tony09manu]

The World needs Jesus. We all do. Those of you who do not yet know Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior I am praying that you accept Him soon.
Those who already love Jesus, I pray you stick close to Him as I strive to.


This is what makes me so angry. The whole "you just haven't seen the truth yet" mentality. Does it ever occur to you that we don't WANT to accept this ideology? Praying for me to change how I precieve the world? You can't see how that's offending at all? Every time a "Christian" says this it drives me off the wall...

[BacktoBasics]

Lets grab our pitchforks and lanterns and burn her at the stake!!!!!!! Who's with me?

[DarkReign]

Lets grab our pitchforks and lanterns and burn her at the stake!!!!!!! Who's with me?

Ok I laughed. Double entendre and all.

[Trainwreck2100]

Lets grab our pitchforks and lanterns and burn her at the stake!!!!!!! Who's with me?


Those were the good ol days. bitch steps outta line, burn her ass. Now they got their damn unions

[hater]

Lets grab our pitchforks and lanterns and burn her at the stake!!!!!!! Who's with me?

U mean Angel? she would probably become a martyr in the eyes of the fanatics and this would start a christian sect that would ultimately start and win World War III.

and decades later in history books we will be reading about how the AntiChrist Obama was defeated with pure love from a virgin called Angel Luv.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

NO!!

You don't get to ignore the facts.

You said you had no proof that Obama had accepted Jesus and therefore he might be the anti-Christ.

I provided that proof.

You either correct what you said or you go down on SpursTalk as an extreme hypocrite.

Which is it?

dude, just let it go. it won't hurt you to let her believe whatever she wants to believe. i'm not supporting her stance, but come on. exactly what is it going to prove? anything really worthy? this goes to all the other jackasses here trying to look for some sort of validity in posing all these questions to her. she's repeated herself over and over and over. it's there just read and move the f' on. she could as easily harp on everyone else's stance here, but she doesn't. just because you say something louder doesn't make you right in any debate. just accept it and move on.

[peewee's lovechild]

Now they got their damn unions

Hahaha, Super Troopers!!

[DarkReign]

No.

No it's not.

Your thinking Obama could be the anti-Christ is more like looking at someone with a Super Mario Bros. t-shirt and wondering if they're going to anally and vaginally rape you, simultaneously, with your own amputated limbs.

BTW, I had to repost this. Greatest. Simile. Ever.

[DarkReign]

dude, just let it go. it won't hurt you to let her believe whatever she wants to believe. i'm not supporting her stance, but come on. exactly what is it going to prove? anything really worthy? this goes to all the other jackasses here trying to look for some sort of validity in posing all these questions to her. she's repeated herself over and over and over. it's there just read and move the f' on. she could as easily harp on everyone else's stance here, but she doesn't. just because you say something louder doesn't make you right in any debate. just accept it and move on.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_02/joust2BNPS1109_468x786.jpg

..and I havent even harped on her.

[BacktoBasics]

dude, just let it go. it won't hurt you to let her believe whatever she wants to believe. i'm not supporting her stance, but come on. exactly what is it going to prove? anything really worthy? this goes to all the other jackasses here trying to look for some sort of validity in posing all these questions to her. she's repeated herself over and over and over. it's there just read and move the f' on. she could as easily harp on everyone else's stance here, but she doesn't. just because you say something louder doesn't make you right in any debate. just accept it and move on.Listen up dipshit he flat out proved her wrong. All he wanted was for her to admit she was wrong. She required proof he provided it. She bailed.

[peewee's lovechild]

dude, just let it go. it won't hurt you to let her believe whatever she wants to believe. i'm not supporting her stance, but come on. exactly what is it going to prove? anything really worthy? this goes to all the other jackasses here trying to look for some sort of validity in posing all these questions to her. she's repeated herself over and over and over. it's there just read and move the f' on. she could as easily harp on everyone else's stance here, but she doesn't. just because you say something louder doesn't make you right in any debate. just accept it and move on.

You are one stupid fuck.

What's it going to prove?
That she's speaking out of her ass you ignorant son of a bitch.

She could harp on everyone else's stance??

What the fuck are you even talking about you fucking retard?

None of us here have ever said with a blind conviction that McCain is the Anti-Christ or Satan or any other of that kind of bullshit.

What is she going to harp about, you soft headed moron?

We're calling her out for assuming that Obama might be the Anti-Christ.

She said she wanted proof that he's accepted Jesus as his savior to back out of her claim. I provided that proof, and yet she has not admitted her fallacy.

Know what you're talking about before you spew your stupidity as you always do.

[BacktoBasics]

I'm about as sick and tired of Viva spouting off when he's completely wrong as I am Angel Luv and her mental instability.

[peewee's lovechild]

I'm about as sick and tired of Viva spouted off when he's completely wrong as I am Angel Luv and her mental instability.

Viva has got to be one of the stupidest mother fuckers alive.

Fuck, that's one stupid son of a bitch.

[timvp]

Interesting thread :smokin

As "different" as Angel's take by me, she's far from alone in that stance. There are going to be millions of votes caste during the election following similar logic. Whether it is people who think Obama is really the anti-christ or really a terrorist sent to infiltrate our government, this is an inescapable truth.

And really, I'm fine with people voting for whatever reasons seem right to them. Angel stood up to the fire in this thread and if she still feels the same way, she should be able to vote how she wants. Freedom of thought in America is one of the best aspects of this country. Without it, a true democracy doesn't exist. You can call her crazy if you want but to say she shouldn't vote is more Un-American than anything she has said in the thread.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

You are one stupid fuck.
.
that's all i needed.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Viva has got to be one of the stupidest mother fuckers alive.

pretty ironic coming from you. i'll just leave it at that.

[peewee's lovechild]

Interesting thread :smokin

As "different" as Angel's take by me, she's far from alone in that stance. There are going to be millions of votes caste during the election following similar logic. Whether it is people who think Obama is really the anti-christ or really a terrorist sent to infiltrate our government, this is an inescapable truth.

And really, I'm fine with people voting for whatever reasons seem right to them. Angel stood up to the fire in this thread and if she still feels the same way, she should be able to vote how she wants. Freedom of thought in America is one of the best aspects of this country. Without it, a true democracy doesn't exist. You can call her crazy if you want but to say she shouldn't vote is more Un-American than anything she has said in the thread.

I never said that she shouldn't vote.

She has that right, as well as every other American.

All I wanted was for her to admit her fallacy. She wanted proof. I gave it to her.

[peewee's lovechild]

that's all i needed.


pretty ironic coming from you. i'll just leave it at that.

Proof positive right there.

[BacktoBasics]

Interesting thread :smokin

As "different" as Angel's take by me, she's far from alone in that stance. There are going to be millions of votes caste during the election following similar logic. Whether it is people who think Obama is really the anti-christ or really a terrorist sent to infiltrate our government, this is an inescapable truth.

And really, I'm fine with people voting for whatever reasons seem right to them. Angel stood up to the fire in this thread and if she still feels the same way, she should be able to vote how she wants. Freedom of thought in America is one of the best aspects of this country. Without it, a true democracy doesn't exist. You can call her crazy if you want but to say she shouldn't vote is more Un-American than anything she has said in the thread.
Regardless of the fact that she is actually crazy?

[BacktoBasics]

I would vote for Angel Luv before Viva. Thats how fucking stupid he is.

[2centsworth]

Did he or did he not have ties and pacts with the Vatican?

Answer the question.

please provide evidence that hitler was a Christian and that the holocaust was conducted in the name of Jesus. Hell, Hitler killed million of Christians.

anyone who suggest that Christians are responsible for the Holocaust need to pick up a history book. Starting with nkdlunch and shockingly 101A.

[timvp]

Regardless of the fact that she is actually crazy?
If she's crazy, she'll have a lot of company this election.

[peewee's lovechild]

please provide evidence that hitler was a Christian and that the holocaust was conducted in the name of Jesus. Hell, Hitler killed million of Christians.

anyone who suggest that Christians are responsible for the Holocaust need to pick up a history book. Starting with nkdlunch and shockingly 101A.

"In 1933 the Vatican signed a Concordat with Germany making Roman Catholicism the only recognized religion in that country."

http://www.reformation.org/inquisit.html

Educate yourself, moron.

[peewee's lovechild]

Want a history book, read this you stupid shit:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Vatican-Inside-Secret-Archives/dp/0743245970

[BacktoBasics]

If she's crazy, she'll have a lot of company this election.
Why do you think I have my tinfoil hat collection polished and ready?

[timvp]

Why do you think I have my tinfoil hat collection polished and ready?

In case Obama is the anti-christ?

:stirpot:

[tp2021]

If a devout Christian murdered the Anti-Christ, and refrained from asking for forgiveness, would that Christian burn in Hell?

Question.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Wouldn't Obama being the anti-christ be a reason for Christians to vote for him, not against him?

After all, it would lead to the second coming of Christ (I'm told there are a lot of people waiting for that to happen) and prove the Bible to be true, no?


As you were.

[BacktoBasics]

In case Obama is the anti-christ?

:stirpot::lmao

[2centsworth]

As far as politics, all is fair in love and war.

[AFBlue]

Those were the good ol days. bitch steps outta line, burn her ass. Now they got their damn unions

:lol

I laughed at this for five straight minutes as I left work and walked to the car.

This whole thread is rediculous (sorry DR). I can safely say though that Angel-type voters have less of a say in this election than they did in 2004 because they're not fired up about McCain and the issues actually matter in this election.

The one question I would ask of Angel...if you're not crazy about either candidate, why vote? In 2004 I couldn't get myself to vote for either candidate so I sat it out....you have the same option.

[romad_20]

"In 1933 the Vatican signed a Concordat with Germany making Roman Catholicism the only recognized religion in that country."

http://www.reformation.org/inquisit.html

Educate yourself, moron.


I don't think Christianity has ever been the cause of the conflicts but horrible people do things in the name of religion all the time, Christianity included.

Fundamentalism breeds ignorant, hateful people who will resort to violence to clense the non-believers.

[2centsworth]

Want a history book, read this you stupid shit:

http://www.amazon.com/Hitler-Vatican-Inside-Secret-Archives/dp/0743245970


you're such a blind sheep. your agenda is way more important to you than the truth.

Hitler duped everyone you stupid ass.

[peewee's lovechild]

you're such a blind sheep. your agenda is way more important to you than the truth.

Hitler duped everyone you stupid ass.

He duped the Catholic Church?

How stupid are they?

Anyway, dumbass, you wanted a history book, I gave it to you.

You're so blind, you can't help but play the part of the fool.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

you might wanna start another thread, dark reign.

[nbrans]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/a-sports-fans-t.html

Andrew Sullivan: "Just one dude thinking out loud on the web. And it gave me hope for a reasoned discourse."

Reasoned discourse???!! How dare Andrew Sullivan slander SpursTalk!! The fucking nerve of that guy!

[DarkReign]

you might wanna start another thread, dark reign.

Agreed. Can I get a restart on this, timvp?

Call this thread what you want...like, "AntiChrist: Now or Never?" or some shit.

[DarkReign]

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/a-sports-fans-t.html

Andrew Sullivan: "Just one dude thinking out loud on the web. And it gave me hope for a reasoned discourse."

Reasoned discourse???!! How dare Andrew Sullivan slander SpursTalk!! The fucking nerve of that guy!

Notice he said "hope". Obviously, those hopes were dashed before the end of the first page.

...13 pages later...

[Jelly]

Wow! Can't believe Sullivan reads Spurstalk. I love that guy!

[2centsworth]

He duped the Catholic Church?

How stupid are they?

Anyway, dumbass, you wanted a history book, I gave it to you.

You're so blind, you can't help but play the part of the fool.

you trollish prick, you're trying to convince people Hitler killed millions of Jews and Christians in the name of Catholism. You're a freakin joke.

[ElNono]

I am not afraid- at all. I assure you.

I am aware of the very real spiritual realities that are constantly at work in and have always existed in this world.

There is God who loves us and there is Satan who is out to destroy us all.

Your life on earth will either be spent in God's hands with His blessings or without help under the relentless attack of Satan.
Which of the two occurs is up to you to choose, as is the destination of your eternal soul.


Oh, you are. You can fool yourself, but not me. You are fearful of a person that stated clearly he's a christian, that has read and profess the very same scriptures that you love to quote. There's no other motive. And it's irrational.
You no longer think or speak for yourself. Those scriptures you keep on bringing up over and over are what do the thinking and talking for you. You are no longer yourself. You're fully submitted. Why would your god gives us such a powerful and incredible mind if he wanted us to be mindless as you are? You know what I just did? I had a personal thought. You probably don't even know what that is anymore. You truly are a disgrace.

[ElNono]

The World needs Jesus. We all do. Those of you who do not yet know Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior I am praying that you accept Him soon.


What the world needs is less mindless sheep like you and more people able to actually educate and think by themselves.

Fuck you, and your lord jesus.

[Extra Stout]

I think a rational observer of the Christian faith would come to the conclusion that it is for the most part based on fiction. I don't want to sound dismissive, but there is no evidence to suggest to me that the stories in the Bible are anything more than a fairytale. Jesus may have existed historically, but we have zero evidence or proof that he was the Son of God or anything of the like. What was written in the Bible was written many many years later by men, and further what exists in the Bible today was decided by a Council of men. They purposefully threw out texts that didn't agree with the image of God they wanted to portray. This just doesn't strike me as the way God would go about revealing himself to the world.
I suppose you're talking about the New Testament. A rational naturalist has to dismiss the NT prima facie because it speaks of miracles and of a bodily resurrection. I freely and fully admit that such occurrences are not permissible given what we know of the natural sciences. In Paul's letters, especialy 1 Corinthians, he comes right out and says that these claims are ridiculous to educated people. They were ridiculous to educated Greeks and Romans in the first century. Modern skeptics are not arriving at new conclusions.

So, indeed, if you cannot accept the possibility of such things, move along. Enjoy your life. Paul himself says that Christianity is a waste of time if you don't believe in a literal resurrection.

The orthodox case for the historicity of the miracles and the resurrection these days is the example of the apostles. What they suffered through to tell their story makes zero sense if they are just charlatans on a power play. They believed that what they were professing actually happened. Perhaps they all just were overcome by a powerful group delusion. I suspect many of the non-religious believe that's the best explanation for people like me anyway, who otherwise appear to be lucid.

Nevertheless, there will be no "proof" that Jesus is the Son of God. According to Jesus' words, there isn't supposed to be proof: "blessed are those who believe without seeing."

Fifty years ago, there were theories that most of the NT had to have been written centuries after Jesus' alleged lifetime. There was doubt that he historically existed. This was during a period when the Bible was discounted as a source, while other ancient sources, even non-Christian religious ones, were accepted. It also was before first-century papyri of Scripture were discovered.

The idea about the "excluded works" is misleading. In popular discourse, it is made to sound as though Christianity was some disorganized soup with lots of different and contradictory texts until Constantine and some other guys came along and defined orthodoxy for everyone.

This is totally wrong.

You want to know what the disputed works were? Not the Gospel of Thomas. Not the Gospel of Judas. The Gnostics were their own splinter group with their own texts. They survived on their own until the Muslims came along and convinced them with swords that Islam was much better. The four canonical Gospels were affirmed by essentially the entire Christian Church by the early second century. The books that barely "made it in" the canon are 2 Peter, Hebrews, James, 2 and 3 John, Jude, and Revelation. The ones that barely "missed" are 1 Clement, the Didache, Barnabas, and the Shepherd of Hermas.

There are Syriac Christian churches in the East that still consider 5 books of the NT (2 Pt, 2-3Jn, Jd, Rv) as only deuterocanonical.

The Council of Carthage in 397 is often cited as the meeting that "defined" the canon. This is totally Eurocentric. That council only applied to the Roman church. It did not apply to Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, or Jerusalem, yet they all had the same New Testament canon -- not because some bishops decided that's what it would be, but rather because everyone was using those books.


Further if the word of God exists in the Bible, explain to me why this piece of text is in there?
The proper traditional Christian reading of the Old Testament is Christological. There were two hermeneutical schools of thought in the early days of Christianity. Both used the Old Testament as a symbol pointing to Jesus Christ. One, centered in Antioch, sought to understand the historical context of the Old Testament accounts in order to apply them to Christian theology. The other, in Alexandria, read the texts entirely as allegory. The modern, hyper-literalist treatment, whether invoked by fundamentalists or by skeptics, involves the superimposition of a contemporary worldview on an ancient text. In the traditional treatment of this passage, the question of whether God is championing slavery of foreigners here would be irrelevant.

From a historical context, in an ancient tribal civilization, selling oneself or one's children into slavery was an alternative to starving. Impressing military captives into slavery was the merciful alternative to slaughtering them. Enlightment-vintage notions of egalitarianism never entered people's minds. In that world, if you were a slave, it meant you probably got to eat on a regular basis, which was relatively awesome back then.

We superimpose American politics, such as racial guilt over black chattel slavery, on the biblical text, so far as even to mistranslate verses, such as 1 Corinthians 7:21, which in Greek tells slaves not to seek their freedom even if they can buy it. American evangelical translations into English sometimes say the exact opposite.

[Extra Stout]

nada

[BacktoBasics]

Modddds!!!!

[Jelly]

What the world needs is less mindless sheep like you and more people able to actually educate and think by themselves.

Fuck you, and your lord jesus.

this is nice. I think you've probably succeeded in persuading Angel and those who share her beliefs to open their minds a little.

[MannyIsGod]

I would vote for Angel Luv before Viva. Thats how fucking stupid he is.

:lmao

[2centsworth]

Notice he said "hope". Obviously, those hopes were dashed before the end of the first page.

...13 pages later...

I started reading with all intentions of posting a reasoned explanation of why I'm voting for _______.

[ElNono]

Interesting thread :smokin

As "different" as Angel's take by me, she's far from alone in that stance. There are going to be millions of votes caste during the election following similar logic. Whether it is people who think Obama is really the anti-christ or really a terrorist sent to infiltrate our government, this is an inescapable truth.

And really, I'm fine with people voting for whatever reasons seem right to them. Angel stood up to the fire in this thread and if she still feels the same way, she should be able to vote how she wants. Freedom of thought in America is one of the best aspects of this country. Without it, a true democracy doesn't exist. You can call her crazy if you want but to say she shouldn't vote is more Un-American than anything she has said in the thread.

What's the problem bringing up our opinions? I think she's wacko, period. I don't have a problem with religious people. I have a problem with lying, irrational, extremist religious people.

[MannyIsGod]

Agreed. Can I get a restart on this, timvp?

Call this thread what you want...like, "AntiChrist: Now or Never?" or some shit.

I started a thread a couple of weeks back with the same line of thought as you. You may want to search for it and check out the responses.

[Extra Stout]

Ah, the great dodge.

I can at least respect consistency of the Bible thumpers who unequivocaly state that the "never heards" are all burning in hell.
So I guess you only respect people who confirm your preconceived notions about what you want to believe about Christianity.

Was Thomas Aquinas into the "great dodge" as well?

[ElNono]

this is nice. I think you've probably succeeded in persuading Angel and those who share her beliefs to open their minds a little.

I'm not attempting to persuade somebody that it's completely irrational. Just making it clear to them that no matter what amount of praying they do, I don't subscribe to their ideology.

[Extra Stout]

That's convenient.
Hey, if you are bound and determined you want to burn in hell, there's really nothing I can do to stop you. Just don't use the poor unreached bushmen as an excuse. They'll be held accountable for what they know.

[Findog]

Wow! Can't believe Sullivan reads Spurstalk. I love that guy!

He doesn't read Spurstalk. I sent it to him because he posted a link that reminded me of this thread:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3147/2962853796_fb1900b8a1_b.jpg

[MannyIsGod]

Wow - Spurstalk's political forum hits Andrew Sullivan's blog. Niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! Love that guy.

[Findog]

Wow - Spurstalk's political forum hits Andrew Sullivan's blog. Niceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! Love that guy.

he could've at least given me, what's that called, a 'hat tip.'

[Jelly]

I'm not attempting to persuade somebody that it's completely irrational. Just making it clear to them that no matter what amount of praying they do, I don't subscribe to their ideology.

I don't subscribe to it either. In fact, it really scares the hell out of me that so many Americans believe the kinds of things that Angel has expressed in this thread (no offense, Angel). I just think this country is at a point where we really, REALLY need to try changing some very closed minds and we can't get there by screaming insults at people. But then again, I know how hot this forum can get.

[peewee's lovechild]

you trollish prick, you're trying to convince people Hitler killed millions of Jews and Christians in the name of Catholism. You're a freakin joke.

No you stupid fuck.

It's a fact that the Catholic Church enabled him.

If you don't like facts, then there's no reasoning with your stupid ass.

[ElNono]

I don't subscribe to it either. In fact, it really scares the hell out of me that so many Americans believe the kinds of things that Angel has expressed in this thread (no offense, Angel). I just think this country is at a point where we really, REALLY need to try changing some very closed minds and we can't get there by screaming insults at people. But then again, I know how hot this forum can get.

You need to understand that she's a person that is beyond any hope of changing, or being rational anymore. I actually asked her once if she would still believe in god if there were irrefutable evidence that god did not create us... She avoided the question and when pressed didn't answer.

[peewee's lovechild]

Hahahaha, we made it on The Daily Dish.

[ratm1221]

I already told you that I cannot prove my strong suspicions about Obama. Only time will tell if I am right or wrong.

I hate singling you out Angel, but I've been reading your posts and you are eat up with the dumbass.

The question I have is who the hell is going to drive you to vote, because I can't see anyone trusting you with a drivers license?

Oh, and I think you are a terrorist because you look like one of those A-rabs. I can't prove it but time will tell.

[peewee's lovechild]

Hahahaha, we made it on The Daily Dish.

And the readers of The Daily Dish will see how stupid Viva is.

[Findog]

And the readers of The Daily Dish will see how stupid Viva is.

it's a shame whottt wasn't here for this one. His views definitely deserve wider exposure than just on Spurstalk.

[MannyIsGod]

Whottt's been really quiet as of late. Someone in Austin should go by and check on him. Maybe his denial has progressed to depression.

[ElNono]

Whottt's been really quiet as of late. Someone in Austin should go by and check on him. Maybe his denial has progressed to depression.

I thought he was past depression and already moved into anger...

[2centsworth]

No you stupid fuck.

It's a fact that the Catholic Church enabled him.

If you don't like facts, then there's no reasoning with your stupid ass.

:lmao likewise

[MannyIsGod]

I thought he was past depression and already moved into anger...

Maybe he moved back? Then again its Whottt. He could just be on a week long peyote bender.

[Bartleby]

I thought he was past depression and already moved into anger...

Anger is a permanent state for Whottt.

[DarrinS]

Just to play Obama's advocate, did anyone prove Obama wasn't he anti-Christ?

[ElNono]

Just to play Obama's advocate, did anyone prove Obama wasn't he anti-Christ?

Well, as hard as I google, I can't find anywhere that says he eats babies for breakfast...

[DarrinS]

By the way, does Peewee's lovechild suffer from Tourette syndrome?

[Bartleby]

Just to play Obama's advocate, did anyone prove Obama wasn't he anti-Christ?

That's unnecessary. It's already been proven that Michael Jordan is the anti-Christ.

[Findog]

This thread has definitely reached classic status.

[DarrinS]

That's unecessary. It's already been proven that Michael Jordan is the anti-Christ.


I think it's quite possible that Ryan Seacrest is the anti-Christ.

[ElNono]

This thread has definitely reached classic status.

"What happens in Spurstalk, stays in Spurstalk"(tm)

[MannyIsGod]

Just to play Obama's advocate, did anyone prove Obama wasn't he anti-Christ?


By the way, does Peewee's lovechild suffer from Tourette syndrome?

You're on fire today.

:lmao

[timvp]

:lol This thread is awesome.

[timvp]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4241

Holy mother of Angel_Luv's God.

[TheMadHatter]

I suppose you're talking about the New Testament. A rational naturalist has to dismiss the NT prima facie because it speaks of miracles and of a bodily resurrection. I freely and fully admit that such occurrences are not permissible given what we know of the natural sciences. In Paul's letters, especialy 1 Corinthians, he comes right out and says that these claims are ridiculous to educated people. They were ridiculous to educated Greeks and Romans in the first century. Modern skeptics are not arriving at new conclusions.

So, indeed, if you cannot accept the possibility of such things, move along. Enjoy your life. Paul himself says that Christianity is a waste of time if you don't believe in a literal resurrection.

The orthodox case for the historicity of the miracles and the resurrection these days is the example of the apostles. What they suffered through to tell their story makes zero sense if they are just charlatans on a power play. They believed that what they were professing actually happened. Perhaps they all just were overcome by a powerful group delusion. I suspect many of the non-religious believe that's the best explanation for people like me anyway, who otherwise appear to be lucid.

Nevertheless, there will be no "proof" that Jesus is the Son of God. According to Jesus' words, there isn't supposed to be proof: "blessed are those who believe without seeing."

Fifty years ago, there were theories that most of the NT had to have been written centuries after Jesus' alleged lifetime. There was doubt that he historically existed. This was during a period when the Bible was discounted as a source, while other ancient sources, even non-Christian religious ones, were accepted. It also was before first-century papyri of Scripture were discovered.

The idea about the "excluded works" is misleading. In popular discourse, it is made to sound as though Christianity was some disorganized soup with lots of different and contradictory texts until Constantine and some other guys came along and defined orthodoxy for everyone.

This is totally wrong.

You want to know what the disputed works were? Not the Gospel of Thomas. Not the Gospel of Judas. The Gnostics were their own splinter group with their own texts. They survived on their own until the Muslims came along and convinced them with swords that Islam was much better. The four canonical Gospels were affirmed by essentially the entire Christian Church by the early second century. The books that barely "made it in" the canon are 2 Peter, Hebrews, James, 2 and 3 John, Jude, and Revelation. The ones that barely "missed" are 1 Clement, the Didache, Barnabas, and the Shepherd of Hermas.

There are Syriac Christian churches in the East that still consider 5 books of the NT (2 Pt, 2-3Jn, Jd, Rv) as only deuterocanonical.

The Council of Carthage in 397 is often cited as the meeting that "defined" the canon. This is totally Eurocentric. That council only applied to the Roman church. It did not apply to Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, or Jerusalem, yet they all had the same New Testament canon -- not because some bishops decided that's what it would be, but rather because everyone was using those books.


The proper traditional Christian reading of the Old Testament is Christological. There were two hermeneutical schools of thought in the early days of Christianity. Both used the Old Testament as a symbol pointing to Jesus Christ. One, centered in Antioch, sought to understand the historical context of the Old Testament accounts in order to apply them to Christian theology. The other, in Alexandria, read the texts entirely as allegory. The modern, hyper-literalist treatment, whether invoked by fundamentalists or by skeptics, involves the superimposition of a contemporary worldview on an ancient text. In the traditional treatment of this passage, the question of whether God is championing slavery of foreigners here would be irrelevant.

From a historical context, in an ancient tribal civilization, selling oneself or one's children into slavery was an alternative to starving. Impressing military captives into slavery was the merciful alternative to slaughtering them. Enlightment-vintage notions of egalitarianism never entered people's minds. In that world, if you were a slave, it meant you probably got to eat on a regular basis, which was relatively awesome back then.

We superimpose American politics, such as racial guilt over black chattel slavery, on the biblical text, so far as even to mistranslate verses, such as 1 Corinthians 7:21, which in Greek tells slaves not to seek their freedom even if they can buy it. American evangelical translations into English sometimes say the exact opposite.

You're trying to rationalize the irrational. You've deluded yourself into believing a fairytale has more meaning than it does because you've lived your whole life believing in that fairytale. To reject it means rejecting yourself.

Listen to what you just wrote. What kind of God would deem slavery acceptable in any way, shape, or form regardless of the time period? Not the God you claim exclusivity to. If there is an omnipotent and benevolent creator he would be ashamed of what Christianity has become and how Christians like yourself have distorted his message. If anyone is burning in hell, it is you.

[MannyIsGod]

I just want to know when Senator Obama showed up at the mall with a bunch of dollar bills buying a gift card.

[SpursFanFirst]

I just cannot believe some people in this thread/site.

I admit I didn't read this whole thread, but the pages and responses I read were plenty.

Why is it there are people on this forum that are incapable of posting a response without the use of swear words and name calling?
Do you think that by using this tactic, you are somehow making your responses more valid?

I've read some of Angel's comments in this thread, and I've read her comments on this forum plenty in the past.
She doesn't use vulgarities to make her points - even if she disagrees with you.
Can't you show her (and others) the same respect?

[ElNono]

I just cannot believe some people in this thread/site.

I admit I didn't read this whole thread, but the pages and responses I read were plenty.

Why is it there are people on this forum that are incapable of posting a response without the use of swear words and name calling?
Do you think that by using this tactic, you are somehow making your responses more valid?

I've read some of Angel's comments in this thread, and I've read her comments on this forum plenty in the past.
She doesn't use vulgarities to make her points - even if she disagrees with you.
Can't you show her (and others) the same respect?

Fuck you too

[SpursFanFirst]

Fuck you too

Charming.

[timvp]

Most users ever online was 6,611, Today at 05:20 PM.Props to this thread for setting a SpursTalk record. :wow

[ElNono]

Charming.

Vulgarities are allowed in the forum. If you can't take them, you came to the wrong place.

[Bartleby]

Props to this thread for setting a SpursTalk record. :wow

Hmmmm, this thread could turn out to be a game-changer.

[SpursFanFirst]

Vulgarities are allowed in the forum. If you can't take them, you came to the wrong place.

I understand people will swear, but some people take it to the extremes.
Is it that impossible to make a point without completely offending people?

[peewee's lovechild]

Holy mother of Angel_Luv's God.

:lmao

[FromWayDowntown]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 3485 (20 members and 3465 guests)

[Extra Stout]

I will reply to the original intent of the thread.

I wrote in John McCain in 2004 because I was dissatisfied with the Bush Administration. I thought he misled the country into Iraq. My vote amounted to nothing of course, since McCain wasn't running and Texas does not count those votes.

So when McCain won the nomination in 2008, I figured if he was good enough for me in 2004, he was good enough for me in 2008. When all the controversies about Barack Obama came in the news, I studied his views and came to the conclusion he was a really smart, talented, sincere guy who held a lot of views which I found somewhere between wrong (on role of government, economic ideas) and abhorrent (abortion).

When McCain picked Sarah Palin, a dark horse whose name I already had heard, I thought it was a brilliant pick to revitalize the base and bring young new talent to the forefront of the GOP. At least, I thought that at first. Then I found out that she knows absolutely nothing about national issues. I mean, zero. People who read magazines at the doctor's office know more than she does. She might as well be a goat herder in Pakistan.

Now I don't think you need to be Patrick Henry Moynihan to run for Vice President, but I can't abide total ignorance, no matter how much people at rallies love her.

This made me doubt McCain's judgment. Was he just that desperate? Even so, this is a campaign for President of the United States, and I at least expect it to be taken seriously by the candidates. That was not a serious pick.

Then the economic crisis came down. This was something I kind of anticipated a few years ago. The housing market seemed totally out of whack exactly the same way the stock market was out of whack in 2000. Even though the economy was "strong," it looked like it was all on paper due to easy credit. So when it finally fell, I wasn't shocked. I didn't understand right away exactly why all these banks were failing, but I studied and figured it out.

Then I contrasted the behavior of the candidates. John McCain pulled a stunt where he "suspended" his campaign to work on a rescue package for the credit markets. Then the Republicans shot it down, and blamed Nancy Pelosi for making a partisan speech, an excuse that made no sense whatsoever. They were afraid of getting voted out is the reality, just like the 40% of Democrats who voted no!

Then the second debate came. By this time, I had read about credit default swaps and other derivatives, and understood how the deregulation ended up magnifying risk and endangering the financial system. When I listened to the debate, it was clear to me that at least Obama understood the crisis, while John McCain still really had no idea what was going on.

I started reading economists. Paul Krugman, who I'd long dismissed as a partisan hack, seemed to have the best handle on the crisis, and theories that explained both what was happening, and why the Fed and other central banks were doing what they were doing. Other left-of-center economists were similarly on top of things. Right-wing economists like Donald Luskin ranged between wrong and ignorant. I learned about Krugman's theory of the "reverse-S" curve and multiple macroeconomic equilibria. The best the right could do was blame the crisis on a bill President Carter passed. My intelligence was thoroughly insulted. At this point, I began questioning my right-wing economic beliefs. Do Republicans even believe them? I began to think that the free market is just a hypothetical that cannot exist in real life due to human nature, and that there is just good and bad regulation. I began to consider Obama's economic views.

In Iraq, though I believe and hope the war is coming to a positive conclusion for the Iraqis, I am ambivalent about whether in sum it served American interests. I don't think Iraq will spark a democratic renaissance in the world; rather, I think a big part of Bush's legacy is the discrediting and retreat of democratic regimes in the world since the Iraq invasion. I am not satisfied with "resource security" as a justification either on moral or economic grounds. So, while I can agree with McCain's view that we need to make sure what has been achieved in Iraq, I also agree with Obama that what is happening in Afghanistan/Pakistan is more pertinent to our national interest.

On things like entitlements, Medicare is quite obviously going to bankrupt the country, and neither party is willing to talk about that honestly. We're already swimming in debt and the Baby Boomers have hardly started retiring! We have a serious case on unreality. Our current system combines the disadvantages of the free market and socialist systems with few of the advantages. I don't think McCain has any ideas; Obama's socialist plans leave me wondering whether we will have an expensive, high-tax, high-service plan that consumes a whole bunch of GDP, or a cheap, low-tax, low-service plan that basically makes medical innovation cease and doctors go elsewhere. But at least he has a plan.

On social issues, I tend to agree with Republicans, at least weakly. I don't have the same views on imposing Christian ideals on the government as some do. I do not think young-earth creationism should be taught in science class, or Sunday school for that matter. I think social consevatives are nostalgic for a past that never actually existed. But the one thing I strongly oppose is abortion, because I believe it is murdering a human being. I would give up capital punishment to get rid of abortion. I would support spending money on social programs if they would get rid of abortion. I honestly struggle to understand how people think that it is acceptable.

I know Obama has talked about working together to reduce the number of abortions. If that happened, each life that would be saved is precious and valuable. But he and I still differ on the moral monstrosity of abortion.

I agree with Federalist Society ideas on the role of the judiciary. I believe in restraining the role of government most of the time. I hope John McCain would nominate more John Roberts types to the bench. I know Obama would nominate more Ginsburgs. I would hate to see the Court go back in the direction of making stuff up out of thin air a la Griswold v. Connecticut, or citing foreign law to make U.S. precedent.

So on the issues, I still lean McCain, but am considering Obama like I never thought I would. If Obama were not so pro-abortion, I might actually switch.

Now, the behavior of some conservatives might push me over the edge anyway. I'm not talking about McCain-Palin rallies as reported in the media. I'm talking about people I know personally and once respected, becoming openly racist, and making jokes about assassinating President Obama. People who talk about a military coup as maybe a good idea. People who start stockpiling guns and ammunition. I don't want to be on their side.

So maybe I vote third-party?

[ElNono]

Props to this thread for setting a SpursTalk record. :wow

I wonder if we're gonna make it to FoxNews at 11

[AntiChrist]

I approve this thread.


Sincerely,


B.O.

[kalyug]

I didn't say Obama was the anti Christ- only that he COULD be and that time would prove it one way or the other.

I am just saying that I am watching Senator Obama- very carefully.


The Anti Christ is going to be someone that is well spoken, well liked, charismatic, impressive and likely handsome.
The Anti Christ will be convincing and a humanitarian.
Not until later in his reign will the Anti Christ show his true colors and prove to be the villian that he is.

What concerns me about Obama is 1) how he appears to be so easily and widespread received as a political savior
and 2) the instances in which Obama subtly undermines the Truth of the Bible while appearing to embrace it.

I offer this example of the latter:



You cannot pick and choose portions of the Scripture to embrace. Either God's Word is ALL true or it is a lie.

In the above referenced verses, we are not even talking about Old Testament vs New Testament.
Senator Obama does not even have the faith to take the entire New Testament as it is written.

Yet Senator Obama is willing to reference to parts of it such as the Sermon on the Mount that he knows most everyone will find palatable.

You may all think I am crazy.
But at least you can know I am not a liar because I tell you EXACTLY what I believe, regardless of how popular or unpopular my view is.

Someone, someday WILL be the anti christ, so I am not sure why you find so shocking the fact that I am open to Obama proving to be he.
Again, I admit nothing has been absolutely proven- yet.

So when Christ (if he existed the way you see him) picked and chose portions of the Old Testament, he was being the anti-Christ? Or was it anti-Moses back then? What about other scriptures? They all claim to be the direct word of God. Give me a single rational (I know that's asking for the impossible) reason why the version of the New Testament (guess what, there's more than one) you read is free of misinterpretation, mis-translation, or grammatical error. Wasn't Paul's letter (Epistle if you prefer) to the Romans (yes I have read the Bible) written by a man? While the Sermon on the Mount was Christ speaking himself. So if we take everything in the New Testament as it is, Paul didn't get anything wrong? Hence, Paul is also God? The New Testament contradicts itself many times, so how are you taking it all as it is written? You yourself clearly only reinforce the parts of the New Testament you agree with, for all your moral posturing.

[MannyIsGod]

I approve this thread.


Sincerely,


B.O.


:lmao

Most predictable troll of all time yet carried out sooooooooooo well with the avatar.

[timvp]

So when Christ (if he existed the way you see him) picked and chose portions of the Old Testament, he was being the anti-Christ? Or was it anti-Moses back then? What about other scriptures? They all claim to be the direct word of God. Give me a single rational (I know that's asking for the impossible) reason why the version of the New Testament (guess what, there's more than one) you read is free of misinterpretation, mis-translation, or grammatical error. Wasn't Paul's letter (Epistle if you prefer) to the Romans (yes I have read the Bible) written by a man? While the Sermon on the Mount was Christ speaking himself. So if we take everything in the New Testament as it is, Paul didn't get anything wrong? Hence, Paul is also God? The New Testament contradicts itself many times, so how are you taking it all as it is written? You yourself clearly only reinforce the parts of the New Testament you agree with, for all your moral posturing.You seem a little too nice for the ST political forum. :lol

Welcome, anyways :tu

[AntiChrist]

I'll take care of this Angel_Luv person as soon as I'm done with Joe the Plumber.

[beachwood]

I don't know. Maybe.

I have not rulled out the possibility, but I don't have enough information yet to be certain one way or the other.

If Senator Obama has addressed the anti Christ accusations, I would be greatly interested to hear what he had to say.
Have any articles/ quotes?

I think addressed them by saying he's a Christian. What else does he need to say?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

[FromWayDowntown]

I will reply to the original intent of the thread.

I wrote in John McCain in 2004 because I was dissatisfied with the Bush Administration. I thought he misled the country into Iraq. My vote amounted to nothing of course, since McCain wasn't running and Texas does not count those votes.

So when McCain won the nomination in 2008, I figured if he was good enough for me in 2004, he was good enough for me in 2008. When all the controversies about Barack Obama came in the news, I studied his views and came to the conclusion he was a really smart, talented, sincere guy who held a lot of views which I found somewhere between wrong (on role of government, economic ideas) and abhorrent (abortion).

When McCain picked Sarah Palin, a dark horse whose name I already had heard, I thought it was a brilliant pick to revitalize the base and bring young new talent to the forefront of the GOP. At least, I thought that at first. Then I found out that she knows absolutely nothing about national issues. I mean, zero. People who read magazines at the doctor's office know more than she does. She might as well be a goat herder in Pakistan.

Now I don't think you need to be Patrick Henry Moynihan to run for Vice President, but I can't abide total ignorance, no matter how much people at rallies love her.

This made me doubt McCain's judgment. Was he just that desperate? Even so, this is a campaign for President of the United States, and I at least expect it to be taken seriously by the candidates. That was not a serious pick.

Then the economic crisis came down. This was something I kind of anticipated a few years ago. The housing market seemed totally out of whack exactly the same way the stock market was out of whack in 2000. Even though the economy was "strong," it looked like it was all on paper due to easy credit. So when it finally fell, I wasn't shocked. I didn't understand right away exactly why all these banks were failing, but I studied and figured it out.

Then I contrasted the behavior of the candidates. John McCain pulled a stunt where he "suspended" his campaign to work on a rescue package for the credit markets. Then the Republicans shot it down, and blamed Nancy Pelosi for making a partisan speech, an excuse that made no sense whatsoever. They were afraid of getting voted out is the reality, just like the 40% of Democrats who voted no!

Then the second debate came. By this time, I had read about credit default swaps and other derivatives, and understood how the deregulation ended up magnifying risk and endangering the financial system. When I listened to the debate, it was clear to me that at least Obama understood the crisis, while John McCain still really had no idea what was going on.

I started reading economists. Paul Krugman, who I'd long dismissed as a partisan hack, seemed to have the best handle on the crisis, and theories that explained both what was happening, and why the Fed and other central banks were doing what they were doing. Other left-of-center economists were similarly on top of things. Right-wing economists like Donald Luskin ranged between wrong and ignorant. I learned about Krugman's theory of the "reverse-S" curve and multiple macroeconomic equilibria. The best the right could do was blame the crisis on a bill President Carter passed. My intelligence was thoroughly insulted. At this point, I began questioning my right-wing economic beliefs. Do Republicans even believe them? I began to think that the free market is just a hypothetical that cannot exist in real life due to human nature, and that there is just good and bad regulation. I began to consider Obama's economic views.

In Iraq, though I believe and hope the war is coming to a positive conclusion for the Iraqis, I am ambivalent about whether in sum it served American interests. I don't think Iraq will spark a democratic renaissance in the world; rather, I think a big part of Bush's legacy is the discrediting and retreat of democratic regimes in the world since the Iraq invasion. I am not satisfied with "resource security" as a justification either on moral or economic grounds. So, while I can agree with McCain's view that we need to make sure what has been achieved in Iraq, I also agree with Obama that what is happening in Afghanistan/Pakistan is more pertinent to our national interest.

On things like entitlements, Medicare is quite obviously going to bankrupt the country, and neither party is willing to talk about that honestly. We're already swimming in debt and the Baby Boomers have hardly started retiring! We have a serious case on unreality. Our current system combines the disadvantages of the free market and socialist systems with few of the advantages. I don't think McCain has any ideas; Obama's socialist plans leave me wondering whether we will have an expensive, high-tax, high-service plan that consumes a whole bunch of GDP, or a cheap, low-tax, low-service plan that basically makes medical innovation cease and doctors go elsewhere. But at least he has a plan.

On social issues, I tend to agree with Republicans, at least weakly. I don't have the same views on imposing Christian ideals on the government as some do. I do not think young-earth creationism should be taught in science class, or Sunday school for that matter. I think social consevatives are nostalgic for a past that never actually existed. But the one thing I strongly oppose is abortion, because I believe it is murdering a human being. I would give up capital punishment to get rid of abortion. I would support spending money on social programs if they would get rid of abortion. I honestly struggle to understand how people think that it is acceptable.

I know Obama has talked about working together to reduce the number of abortions. If that happened, each life that would be saved is precious and valuable. But he and I still differ on the moral monstrosity of abortion.

I agree with Federalist Society ideas on the role of the judiciary. I believe in restraining the role of government most of the time. I hope John McCain would nominate more John Roberts types to the bench. I know Obama would nominate more Ginsburgs. I would hate to see the Court go back in the direction of making stuff up out of thin air a la Griswold v. Connecticut, or citing foreign law to make U.S. precedent.

So on the issues, I still lean McCain, but am considering Obama like I never thought I would. If Obama were not so pro-abortion, I might actually switch.

Now, the behavior of some conservatives might push me over the edge anyway. I'm not talking about McCain-Palin rallies as reported in the media. I'm talking about people I know personally and once respected, becoming openly racist, and making jokes about assassinating President Obama. People who talk about a military coup as maybe a good idea. People who start stockpiling guns and ammunition. I don't want to be on their side.

So maybe I vote third-party?

[/audition]

[Shelly]

Holy mother of Angel_Luv's God.

:lol Is that a record?

[Bartleby]

I'll take care of this Angel_Luv person as soon as I'm done with Joe the Plumber.


:lmao

[AntiChrist]

I'll send my enforcer out to discipline anyone who interferes with my campaign. You don't know REAL pain until you've been bitchslapped by one of Michelle's unnaturally long stick arms.

http://blog.cleveland.com/nationworld_impact/2008/07/large_WhiteDressWaveGregoire_Michelle_Oba_Meye.JPG

[peewee's lovechild]

I will reply to the original intent of the thread.

I wrote in John McCain in 2004 because I was dissatisfied with the Bush Administration. I thought he misled the country into Iraq. My vote amounted to nothing of course, since McCain wasn't running and Texas does not count those votes.

So when McCain won the nomination in 2008, I figured if he was good enough for me in 2004, he was good enough for me in 2008. When all the controversies about Barack Obama came in the news, I studied his views and came to the conclusion he was a really smart, talented, sincere guy who held a lot of views which I found somewhere between wrong (on role of government, economic ideas) and abhorrent (abortion).

When McCain picked Sarah Palin, a dark horse whose name I already had heard, I thought it was a brilliant pick to revitalize the base and bring young new talent to the forefront of the GOP. At least, I thought that at first. Then I found out that she knows absolutely nothing about national issues. I mean, zero. People who read magazines at the doctor's office know more than she does. She might as well be a goat herder in Pakistan.

Now I don't think you need to be Patrick Henry Moynihan to run for Vice President, but I can't abide total ignorance, no matter how much people at rallies love her.

This made me doubt McCain's judgment. Was he just that desperate? Even so, this is a campaign for President of the United States, and I at least expect it to be taken seriously by the candidates. That was not a serious pick.

Then the economic crisis came down. This was something I kind of anticipated a few years ago. The housing market seemed totally out of whack exactly the same way the stock market was out of whack in 2000. Even though the economy was "strong," it looked like it was all on paper due to easy credit. So when it finally fell, I wasn't shocked. I didn't understand right away exactly why all these banks were failing, but I studied and figured it out.

Then I contrasted the behavior of the candidates. John McCain pulled a stunt where he "suspended" his campaign to work on a rescue package for the credit markets. Then the Republicans shot it down, and blamed Nancy Pelosi for making a partisan speech, an excuse that made no sense whatsoever. They were afraid of getting voted out is the reality, just like the 40% of Democrats who voted no!

Then the second debate came. By this time, I had read about credit default swaps and other derivatives, and understood how the deregulation ended up magnifying risk and endangering the financial system. When I listened to the debate, it was clear to me that at least Obama understood the crisis, while John McCain still really had no idea what was going on.

I started reading economists. Paul Krugman, who I'd long dismissed as a partisan hack, seemed to have the best handle on the crisis, and theories that explained both what was happening, and why the Fed and other central banks were doing what they were doing. Other left-of-center economists were similarly on top of things. Right-wing economists like Donald Luskin ranged between wrong and ignorant. I learned about Krugman's theory of the "reverse-S" curve and multiple macroeconomic equilibria. The best the right could do was blame the crisis on a bill President Carter passed. My intelligence was thoroughly insulted. At this point, I began questioning my right-wing economic beliefs. Do Republicans even believe them? I began to think that the free market is just a hypothetical that cannot exist in real life due to human nature, and that there is just good and bad regulation. I began to consider Obama's economic views.

In Iraq, though I believe and hope the war is coming to a positive conclusion for the Iraqis, I am ambivalent about whether in sum it served American interests. I don't think Iraq will spark a democratic renaissance in the world; rather, I think a big part of Bush's legacy is the discrediting and retreat of democratic regimes in the world since the Iraq invasion. I am not satisfied with "resource security" as a justification either on moral or economic grounds. So, while I can agree with McCain's view that we need to make sure what has been achieved in Iraq, I also agree with Obama that what is happening in Afghanistan/Pakistan is more pertinent to our national interest.

On things like entitlements, Medicare is quite obviously going to bankrupt the country, and neither party is willing to talk about that honestly. We're already swimming in debt and the Baby Boomers have hardly started retiring! We have a serious case on unreality. Our current system combines the disadvantages of the free market and socialist systems with few of the advantages. I don't think McCain has any ideas; Obama's socialist plans leave me wondering whether we will have an expensive, high-tax, high-service plan that consumes a whole bunch of GDP, or a cheap, low-tax, low-service plan that basically makes medical innovation cease and doctors go elsewhere. But at least he has a plan.

On social issues, I tend to agree with Republicans, at least weakly. I don't have the same views on imposing Christian ideals on the government as some do. I do not think young-earth creationism should be taught in science class, or Sunday school for that matter. I think social consevatives are nostalgic for a past that never actually existed. But the one thing I strongly oppose is abortion, because I believe it is murdering a human being. I would give up capital punishment to get rid of abortion. I would support spending money on social programs if they would get rid of abortion. I honestly struggle to understand how people think that it is acceptable.

I know Obama has talked about working together to reduce the number of abortions. If that happened, each life that would be saved is precious and valuable. But he and I still differ on the moral monstrosity of abortion.

I agree with Federalist Society ideas on the role of the judiciary. I believe in restraining the role of government most of the time. I hope John McCain would nominate more John Roberts types to the bench. I know Obama would nominate more Ginsburgs. I would hate to see the Court go back in the direction of making stuff up out of thin air a la Griswold v. Connecticut, or citing foreign law to make U.S. precedent.

So on the issues, I still lean McCain, but am considering Obama like I never thought I would. If Obama were not so pro-abortion, I might actually switch.

Now, the behavior of some conservatives might push me over the edge anyway. I'm not talking about McCain-Palin rallies as reported in the media. I'm talking about people I know personally and once respected, becoming openly racist, and making jokes about assassinating President Obama. People who talk about a military coup as maybe a good idea. People who start stockpiling guns and ammunition. I don't want to be on their side.

So maybe I vote third-party?

I respect what you wrote here.

Although, I have a problem with one thing you wrote:


I would give up capital punishment to get rid of abortion.

I don't understand how you can be okay with one type of ending a life over the other type of ending a life.

It's a bit hypocritical.

Mind you, I'm riding the fence on this one. I'm against abortion for the most part, although I'm for abortion when it comes to rape, incest, and when the mother's health is in danger or if the baby will be deformed or retarded.

But, I respect your opinions.

I just wish more right of center people could think like you do.

[2centsworth]

I will reply to the original intent of the thread.

I wrote in John McCain in 2004 because I was dissatisfied with the Bush Administration. I thought he misled the country into Iraq. My vote amounted to nothing of course, since McCain wasn't running and Texas does not count those votes.

So when McCain won the nomination in 2008, I figured if he was good enough for me in 2004, he was good enough for me in 2008. When all the controversies about Barack Obama came in the news, I studied his views and came to the conclusion he was a really smart, talented, sincere guy who held a lot of views which I found somewhere between wrong (on role of government, economic ideas) and abhorrent (abortion).

When McCain picked Sarah Palin, a dark horse whose name I already had heard, I thought it was a brilliant pick to revitalize the base and bring young new talent to the forefront of the GOP. At least, I thought that at first. Then I found out that she knows absolutely nothing about national issues. I mean, zero. People who read magazines at the doctor's office know more than she does. She might as well be a goat herder in Pakistan.

Now I don't think you need to be Patrick Henry Moynihan to run for Vice President, but I can't abide total ignorance, no matter how much people at rallies love her.

This made me doubt McCain's judgment. Was he just that desperate? Even so, this is a campaign for President of the United States, and I at least expect it to be taken seriously by the candidates. That was not a serious pick.

Then the economic crisis came down. This was something I kind of anticipated a few years ago. The housing market seemed totally out of whack exactly the same way the stock market was out of whack in 2000. Even though the economy was "strong," it looked like it was all on paper due to easy credit. So when it finally fell, I wasn't shocked. I didn't understand right away exactly why all these banks were failing, but I studied and figured it out.

Then I contrasted the behavior of the candidates. John McCain pulled a stunt where he "suspended" his campaign to work on a rescue package for the credit markets. Then the Republicans shot it down, and blamed Nancy Pelosi for making a partisan speech, an excuse that made no sense whatsoever. They were afraid of getting voted out is the reality, just like the 40% of Democrats who voted no!

Then the second debate came. By this time, I had read about credit default swaps and other derivatives, and understood how the deregulation ended up magnifying risk and endangering the financial system. When I listened to the debate, it was clear to me that at least Obama understood the crisis, while John McCain still really had no idea what was going on.

I started reading economists. Paul Krugman, who I'd long dismissed as a partisan hack, seemed to have the best handle on the crisis, and theories that explained both what was happening, and why the Fed and other central banks were doing what they were doing. Other left-of-center economists were similarly on top of things. Right-wing economists like Donald Luskin ranged between wrong and ignorant. I learned about Krugman's theory of the "reverse-S" curve and multiple macroeconomic equilibria. The best the right could do was blame the crisis on a bill President Carter passed. My intelligence was thoroughly insulted. At this point, I began questioning my right-wing economic beliefs. Do Republicans even believe them? I began to think that the free market is just a hypothetical that cannot exist in real life due to human nature, and that there is just good and bad regulation. I began to consider Obama's economic views.

In Iraq, though I believe and hope the war is coming to a positive conclusion for the Iraqis, I am ambivalent about whether in sum it served American interests. I don't think Iraq will spark a democratic renaissance in the world; rather, I think a big part of Bush's legacy is the discrediting and retreat of democratic regimes in the world since the Iraq invasion. I am not satisfied with "resource security" as a justification either on moral or economic grounds. So, while I can agree with McCain's view that we need to make sure what has been achieved in Iraq, I also agree with Obama that what is happening in Afghanistan/Pakistan is more pertinent to our national interest.

On things like entitlements, Medicare is quite obviously going to bankrupt the country, and neither party is willing to talk about that honestly. We're already swimming in debt and the Baby Boomers have hardly started retiring! We have a serious case on unreality. Our current system combines the disadvantages of the free market and socialist systems with few of the advantages. I don't think McCain has any ideas; Obama's socialist plans leave me wondering whether we will have an expensive, high-tax, high-service plan that consumes a whole bunch of GDP, or a cheap, low-tax, low-service plan that basically makes medical innovation cease and doctors go elsewhere. But at least he has a plan.

On social issues, I tend to agree with Republicans, at least weakly. I don't have the same views on imposing Christian ideals on the government as some do. I do not think young-earth creationism should be taught in science class, or Sunday school for that matter. I think social consevatives are nostalgic for a past that never actually existed. But the one thing I strongly oppose is abortion, because I believe it is murdering a human being. I would give up capital punishment to get rid of abortion. I would support spending money on social programs if they would get rid of abortion. I honestly struggle to understand how people think that it is acceptable.

I know Obama has talked about working together to reduce the number of abortions. If that happened, each life that would be saved is precious and valuable. But he and I still differ on the moral monstrosity of abortion.

I agree with Federalist Society ideas on the role of the judiciary. I believe in restraining the role of government most of the time. I hope John McCain would nominate more John Roberts types to the bench. I know Obama would nominate more Ginsburgs. I would hate to see the Court go back in the direction of making stuff up out of thin air a la Griswold v. Connecticut, or citing foreign law to make U.S. precedent.

So on the issues, I still lean McCain, but am considering Obama like I never thought I would. If Obama were not so pro-abortion, I might actually switch.

Now, the behavior of some conservatives might push me over the edge anyway. I'm not talking about McCain-Palin rallies as reported in the media. I'm talking about people I know personally and once respected, becoming openly racist, and making jokes about assassinating President Obama. People who talk about a military coup as maybe a good idea. People who start stockpiling guns and ammunition. I don't want to be on their side.

So maybe I vote third-party?

We agree just about on every point except for some parts of the credit crises. Fannie and Freddie ignited the fire. Deregulation added fuel to the flame.

[Shelly]

Religion is gonna crash ST.

See? Things happen in the name of religion!

[peewee's lovechild]

I'll take care of this Angel_Luv person as soon as I'm done with Joe the Plumber.

:lmao

[Bartleby]

Religion is gonna crash ST.

See? Things happen in the name of religion!

only if God wants ST to crash.

[tp2021]

only if God wants ST to crash.

Or the Church of Manu.

[AntiChrist]

Coincidence? I think not.


http://eviljwinter.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/hillanddevil.jpg

[peewee's lovechild]

Coincidence? I think not.


http://eviljwinter.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/hillanddevil.jpg


:lol

Son of a bitch, you're on a roll!!

[MannyIsGod]

I started reading economists. Paul Krugman, who I'd long dismissed as a partisan hack, seemed to have the best handle on the crisis, and theories that explained both what was happening, and why the Fed and other central banks were doing what they were doing. Other left-of-center economists were similarly on top of things. Right-wing economists like Donald Luskin ranged between wrong and ignorant. I learned about Krugman's theory of the "reverse-S" curve and multiple macroeconomic equilibria. The best the right could do was blame the crisis on a bill President Carter passed. My intelligence was thoroughly insulted. At this point, I began questioning my right-wing economic beliefs. Do Republicans even believe them? I began to think that the free market is just a hypothetical that cannot exist in real life due to human nature, and that there is just good and bad regulation. I began to consider Obama's economic views.


A few years ago, as many of my older posts in this very forum will testify to, I was an ardent libertarian. I voted Libertarian in 04 and I really felt that the free market was the way to go.

But, much like you, I've had to reexamine the thought of a truly free market. Its an economic utopia which requires the general public to be far more educated and informed that it will likely ever be. I just can't realistically buy into it anymore. I don't know how to fix our economy and how to make it run at peak efficiency, but like you Krugman was my source for info on this economic crisis and I was really impressed by his handle on the entire situation. I think that Krugman and maybe some of the more liberal economists out there may be onto something, and I really think our country is really on the verge of moving far more to the left. The demographics of a future America are not kind to what the GOP has become, and I think in order for it to make an impact in the future its going to have to move to the left.

[beachwood]

No because my boyfriend has accepted and confesses Jesus Christ as his personal savior, which for the record is all Senator Obama needs to do to clarify his position and prove himself not to be the anti christ.

You are out of your fucking mind.

[Findog]

Hmmmm, this thread could turn out to be a game-changer.

It could mark a fundamental shift.

[Findog]

I always knew the Anti Christ would be a Spurs fan.

[Findog]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2839453&postcount=340

Hey Kori or timvp,

Can I get a Spur under my name for helping Spurstalk set a record?

[Extra Stout]

You're trying to rationalize the irrational. You've deluded yourself into believing a fairytale has more meaning than it does because you've lived your whole life believing in that fairytale. To reject it means rejecting yourself.

Listen to what you just wrote. What kind of God would deem slavery acceptable in any way, shape, or form regardless of the time period? Not the God you claim exclusivity to. If there is an omnipotent and benevolent creator he would be ashamed of what Christianity has become and how Christians like yourself have distorted his message. If anyone is burning in hell, it is you.
I did not grow up as a Christian. I chose to become one. I follow my personal experience of God.

I'm not going to claim the New Testament says something it did not say. It does not condemn slavery. The only part it condemns is kidnapping a free man and selling him into slavery. I don't know why you insist that is distorting the message when I am telling you the plain words of that message. You are claiming offense on behalf of a God you don't even believe exists.

The Christian life is not primarily or secondarily concerned with overturning social conventions or changing political regimes. It is about transformation of the individual and of the community so that we stop focusing on ourselves and start focusing on God and others. It's about no longer calling myself the sovereign authority over my own life and submitting first to God's commands and to the needs of others. It's about persisting in this no matter the personal cost. And it's about admitting that no, I can't do that by myself, because it is not natural to behave that way.

It's not about spreading democracy, or American values, or capitalism, or Kirk Cameron movies, or social liberation. All that is crap that people heap onto it.

And I readily and freely admit that much of the materialistic, consumer-happy, free-market capitalist string-em-up right-wing evangelical Republican nonsense that passes for Christianity is, to use a word Paul used, dogcrap.

If that means you think I should burn in hell... well since you don't actually believe hell exists, where am I going? Lubbock?

[MannyIsGod]

I always knew the Anti Christ would be a Spurs fan.

:lmao

[Mr. Peabody]

Dammit. I was stuck in court all day and missed out on this thread.:bang

[Findog]

:lmao

Well, you know how it is, the Spurs "play the right way," "don't care who gets the credit," and are "unselfish." At least that's what they want you to think.

[DarkReign]

Props to this thread for setting a SpursTalk record. :wow

nevermind, FinD gets the credit.

[ElNono]

Dammit. I was stuck in court all day and missed out on this thread.:bang

I'm not sure you want to catch up on it...

[Findog]

So do I get a Spur or what?

I think you should. Andy Sullivan likes the way you think.

[temujin]

I will reply to the original intent of the thread.

I wrote in John McCain in 2004 because I was dissatisfied with the Bush Administration. I thought he misled the country into Iraq. My vote amounted to nothing of course, since McCain wasn't running and Texas does not count those votes.

So when McCain won the nomination in 2008, I figured if he was good enough for me in 2004, he was good enough for me in 2008. When all the controversies about Barack Obama came in the news, I studied his views and came to the conclusion he was a really smart, talented, sincere guy who held a lot of views which I found somewhere between wrong (on role of government, economic ideas) and abhorrent (abortion).

When McCain picked Sarah Palin, a dark horse whose name I already had heard, I thought it was a brilliant pick to revitalize the base and bring young new talent to the forefront of the GOP. At least, I thought that at first. Then I found out that she knows absolutely nothing about national issues. I mean, zero. People who read magazines at the doctor's office know more than she does. She might as well be a goat herder in Pakistan.

Now I don't think you need to be Patrick Henry Moynihan to run for Vice President, but I can't abide total ignorance, no matter how much people at rallies love her.

This made me doubt McCain's judgment. Was he just that desperate? Even so, this is a campaign for President of the United States, and I at least expect it to be taken seriously by the candidates. That was not a serious pick.

Then the economic crisis came down. This was something I kind of anticipated a few years ago. The housing market seemed totally out of whack exactly the same way the stock market was out of whack in 2000. Even though the economy was "strong," it looked like it was all on paper due to easy credit. So when it finally fell, I wasn't shocked. I didn't understand right away exactly why all these banks were failing, but I studied and figured it out.

Then I contrasted the behavior of the candidates. John McCain pulled a stunt where he "suspended" his campaign to work on a rescue package for the credit markets. Then the Republicans shot it down, and blamed Nancy Pelosi for making a partisan speech, an excuse that made no sense whatsoever. They were afraid of getting voted out is the reality, just like the 40% of Democrats who voted no!

Then the second debate came. By this time, I had read about credit default swaps and other derivatives, and understood how the deregulation ended up magnifying risk and endangering the financial system. When I listened to the debate, it was clear to me that at least Obama understood the crisis, while John McCain still really had no idea what was going on.

I started reading economists. Paul Krugman, who I'd long dismissed as a partisan hack, seemed to have the best handle on the crisis, and theories that explained both what was happening, and why the Fed and other central banks were doing what they were doing. Other left-of-center economists were similarly on top of things. Right-wing economists like Donald Luskin ranged between wrong and ignorant. I learned about Krugman's theory of the "reverse-S" curve and multiple macroeconomic equilibria. The best the right could do was blame the crisis on a bill President Carter passed. My intelligence was thoroughly insulted. At this point, I began questioning my right-wing economic beliefs. Do Republicans even believe them? I began to think that the free market is just a hypothetical that cannot exist in real life due to human nature, and that there is just good and bad regulation. I began to consider Obama's economic views.

In Iraq, though I believe and hope the war is coming to a positive conclusion for the Iraqis, I am ambivalent about whether in sum it served American interests. I don't think Iraq will spark a democratic renaissance in the world; rather, I think a big part of Bush's legacy is the discrediting and retreat of democratic regimes in the world since the Iraq invasion. I am not satisfied with "resource security" as a justification either on moral or economic grounds. So, while I can agree with McCain's view that we need to make sure what has been achieved in Iraq, I also agree with Obama that what is happening in Afghanistan/Pakistan is more pertinent to our national interest.

On things like entitlements, Medicare is quite obviously going to bankrupt the country, and neither party is willing to talk about that honestly. We're already swimming in debt and the Baby Boomers have hardly started retiring! We have a serious case on unreality. Our current system combines the disadvantages of the free market and socialist systems with few of the advantages. I don't think McCain has any ideas; Obama's socialist plans leave me wondering whether we will have an expensive, high-tax, high-service plan that consumes a whole bunch of GDP, or a cheap, low-tax, low-service plan that basically makes medical innovation cease and doctors go elsewhere. But at least he has a plan.

On social issues, I tend to agree with Republicans, at least weakly. I don't have the same views on imposing Christian ideals on the government as some do. I do not think young-earth creationism should be taught in science class, or Sunday school for that matter. I think social consevatives are nostalgic for a past that never actually existed. But the one thing I strongly oppose is abortion, because I believe it is murdering a human being. I would give up capital punishment to get rid of abortion. I would support spending money on social programs if they would get rid of abortion. I honestly struggle to understand how people think that it is acceptable.

I know Obama has talked about working together to reduce the number of abortions. If that happened, each life that would be saved is precious and valuable. But he and I still differ on the moral monstrosity of abortion.

I agree with Federalist Society ideas on the role of the judiciary. I believe in restraining the role of government most of the time. I hope John McCain would nominate more John Roberts types to the bench. I know Obama would nominate more Ginsburgs. I would hate to see the Court go back in the direction of making stuff up out of thin air a la Griswold v. Connecticut, or citing foreign law to make U.S. precedent.

So on the issues, I still lean McCain, but am considering Obama like I never thought I would. If Obama were not so pro-abortion, I might actually switch.

Now, the behavior of some conservatives might push me over the edge anyway. I'm not talking about McCain-Palin rallies as reported in the media. I'm talking about people I know personally and once respected, becoming openly racist, and making jokes about assassinating President Obama. People who talk about a military coup as maybe a good idea. People who start stockpiling guns and ammunition. I don't want to be on their side.

So maybe I vote third-party?

I read your commentary, as you are one of the 4/5 I do care reading.
I do share your views on most of your analysis, particularly on the choice of Palin as VP.

I have no business telling people how to vote here, as I'm not a US citizen.

Nevertheless, I will give you my view on how the results could be perceived in other parts of the world.
There is ample consensus that the Bush's presidency will be regarded one of -if not the- worst in US history.
Th financial crisis is far from over yet.
The US have doubled the federal debt. It is now close to GDP.
The US are at war with no end in sight.
They got trapped in a country -Afganisthan- from which nobody has EVER escaped victorious.
I will add that I do believe that McCain is a decent man, that would have done a decent president in "normal" times.
I will also add that some of the things I heard from Obama in foreign policy are naif at best.
However, 4 more years of Republican White House would be rationally inexplicable to non US citizens.

And I have the tendency to believe that that includes a lot of people that will be supposed to lend US money. Serious money.
Which the US sorely need if it has to improve the management of the crisis.

[Mr. Peabody]

I'm not sure you want to catch up on it...

I only read the first page. What'd I miss?

[romad_20]

http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff339/RS_Davis/antichrist-obama.jpg

[2centsworth]

I only read the first page. What'd I miss?
read it, it's fun.

[ElNono]

I only read the first page. What'd I miss?

A lot... I would recommend reading it through... it's a classic thread

[romad_20]

I only read the first page. What'd I miss?

:lol

[Bartleby]

Page 4 has some great posts.

[Shastafarian]

A lot... I would recommend reading it through... it's a classic thread

Yeah I haven't seen a beating like this since Rodney King.




What? Too cliché?

[SpursFanFirst]

I always knew the Anti Christ would be a Spurs fan.

:lol Good stuff!

[Mr. Peabody]

Yeah, this was a great thread.:depressed

[Jim C.]

If you can't even articulate a single point that concerns you, it is by definition paranoia. (Possibly delusional paranoia, but i am ot a doctor.) That's really sad.

[romad_20]

I'm so confused now about my vote, though. I could go with a 3rd party or get in with the anti-christ crowd now so I don't suffer as much under his dark reign. :worthy:

[AntiChrist]

This thread is best enjoyed with some Iron Maiden or Slayer playing in the background.

[Findog]

If you can't even articualte a single point that concerns you, it is by definition paranoia. (Possibly delusional paranoia, but i am ot a doctor.) That's really sad.

Welcome to Spurstalk.

Fear and paranoia are all McCain has left. They've tried secret Muslim, terrorist, under the sway of Reverend Wright, anti-American, socialist...

The only card they have left to play is "He's a queer and Michelle is a beard" card.

[Shastafarian]

This thread is best enjoyed with some Iron Maiden or Slayer playing in the background.

Go to page 4. I posted a nice video for you.

[ElNono]

If you can't even articulate a single point that concerns you, it is by definition paranoia. (Possibly delusional paranoia, but i am ot a doctor.) That's really sad.

Welcome

[Mr. Peabody]

I'm so confused now about my vote, though. I could go with a 3rd party or get in with the anti-christ crowd now so I don't suffer as much under his dark reign. :worthy:

:lol

http://praxeology.net/hail-ants.PNG

"Ladies and gentlemen, uh, we've just lost the picture, but what we've seen speaks for itself. The Corvair spacecraft has apparently been taken over- 'conquered' if you will- by a master race of giant space ants. It's difficult to tell from this vantage point whether they will consume the captive Earthman or merely enslave them. One thing is for certain: there is no stopping them; the ants will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I'd like to remind them as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves."

[DarkReign]

This thread is best enjoyed with some Iron Maiden or Slayer playing in the background.

How coincidental...no bullshit, I read this post listening to Slayer. Disciple off the God Hates Us All album.

Those that know me know I dont bullshit or lie. Im not lying about this. Ive been on a kick with this album for quite some time. I was really surprised to see it came out in 2001.

The irony is thick. And no, the troll isnt mine. I dont have any. timvp can attest.

[romad_20]

:lol

http://praxeology.net/hail-ants.PNG

"Ladies and gentlemen, uh, we've just lost the picture, but what we've seen speaks for itself. The Corvair spacecraft has apparently been taken over- 'conquered' if you will- by a master race of giant space ants. It's difficult to tell from this vantage point whether they will consume the captive Earthman or merely enslave them. One thing is for certain: there is no stopping them; the ants will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new insect overlords. I'd like to remind them as a trusted TV personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves."


OMG :lol I forgot about that episode.

BTW Lou Dobbs just said on his show, "let's not rule out Obama is devil" in response to a statement by a guest that Obama is not the devil the right is making him out to be. :rollin

[Findog]

How coincidental...no bullshit, I read this post listening to Slayer. Disciple off the God Hates Us All album.

Those that know me know I dont bullshit or lie. Im not lying about this.

The irony is thick. And no, the troll isnt mine. I dont have any. timvp can attest.

I went with Brian Jonestown Massacre:

http://myspacetv.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=9023920

[Bartleby]

Welcome to Spurstalk.

Fear and paranoia are all McCain has left. They've tried secret Muslim, terrorist, under the sway of Reverend Wright, anti-American, socialist...

The only card they have left to play is "He's a queer and Michelle is a beard" card.

You forgot the "he had an affair with a white woman" card, which they are probably saving for robo-calls during the last week of the campaign.

[Findog]

OMG :lol I forgot about that episode.

BTW Lou Dobbs just said on his show, "let's not rule out Obama is devil" in response to a statement by a guest that Obama is not the devil the right is making him out to be. :rollin

Michael Jordan used to play for the Chicago Bulls, whose colors are red and black. Obama lives in Hyde Park, a suburb of Chicago, and is a huge basketball fan. Between the two of them, ONE of them is the Anti Christ.

[LakeShow]

Yeah, this was a great thread.:depressed

Yeah it was. I read it when it first started, not many replies or viewers. decided to do some work, looked again and damn, 2000+ viewing, 250+ replies and 10,000+ views :wow. I thought Spurstalk was on the blink or Kori transferred the Spurs game day thread to this thread. :lol

Great read! :toast

[Findog]

You forgot the "he had an affair with a white woman" card, which they are probably saving for robo-calls during the last week of the campaign.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/446446539_78e731d723.jpg

[Trainwreck2100]

What the world needs is less mindless sheep like you and more people able to actually educate and think by themselves.

Fuck you, and your lord jesus.

No what the world needs is less condescending little pricks. So what if she believes what she does. She and the millions of others. All beliefs systems out there deserve respect. Islam, Muslim, Buddhist, Athiests, hindu's, the Jews(I don't know what they call it, cause i was thinking Jewism but no.)etc. Not necessesarily because of what they teach, but because people believe that and its apart of their lives. As long as they are not hurting anybody who the fuck are you to judge what they are.

So fuck you, fuck you're dog, fuck you're car, and fuck anyone like you who puts themselves above reproach. Like it or not you to follow a dogma that may or may not be wrong but you won't know till you're worm fodder.

[romad_20]

How coincidental...no bullshit, I read this post listening to Slayer. Disciple off the God Hates Us All album.

Those that know me know I dont bullshit or lie. Im not lying about this.

The irony is thick. And no, the troll isnt mine. I dont have any. timvp can attest.


I'll never forget the first Slayer concert I went to in 98. I was 19 and I was talking to a 30ish guy in the pit before the show. Nice guy. I was new in the AF at the time and we were bullshitting about Austin b/c I was at Ft Hood. Slayer hit the stage and this guy punched me in the face and started kicking ass in the pit. Memories......

[Shastafarian]

No what the world needs is less condescending little pricks. So what if she believes what she does. She and the millions of others. All beliefs systems out there deserve respect. Islam, Muslim, Buddhist, Athiests, hindu's, the Jews(I don't know what they call it, cause i was thinking Jewism but no.)etc. Not necessesarily because of what they teach, but because people believe that and its apart of their lives. As long as they are not hurting anybody who the fuck are you to judge what they are.

So fuck you, fuck you're dog, fuck you're car, and fuck anyone like you who puts themselves above reproach. Like it or not you to follow a dogma that may or may not be wrong but you won't know till you're worm fodder.

...Judaism

[Jelly]

OMG :lol I forgot about that episode.

BTW Lou Dobbs just said on his show, "let's not rule out Obama is devil" in response to a statement by a guest that Obama is not the devil the right is making him out to be. :rollin

how on Earth Lou Dobbs is still on CNN is beyond me. He belongs on Fox. At least with the election he has something else to bitch about besides immigrants.

[Findog]

All beliefs systems out there deserve respect. .

No, they don't. Angel Luv has always exhibited impeccable online manners and deserves to be treated with polite courtesy, but that doesn't mean we have to treat the "Obama may be the Anti Christ" meme with respect.

[romad_20]

the Jews(I don't know what they call it, cause i was thinking Jewism but no.) :lol

[Trainwreck2100]

No, they don't. Angel Luv has always exhibited impeccable online manners and deserves to be treated with polite courtesy, but that doesn't mean we have to treat the "Obama may be the Anti Christ" meme with respect.


As long as they aren't proclaiming "Death to Obama" what's wrong with that. Like most teachings of this nature time will do its job disproving these things, It sounds stupid but there's worse more radical teachings out there. I will add that I meant they deserve respect as long as they don't harm anyone.

[Mr. Peabody]

So fuck you, fuck you're dog, fuck you're car, and fuck anyone like you who puts themselves above reproach. Like it or not you to follow a dogma that may or may not be wrong but you won't know till you're worm fodder.

Yeah, but whatever "dogma" he's following is not telling him that a person is the anti-Christ, the person who is going to try and destroy Christianity. That's a pretty dangerous belief to have, don't you think? Someone in this forum actually believes that Obama could be the one predicted in the Bible who opposes Jesus and seeks to replace him. How could you expect anyone in this forum not to react to that?

[AntiChrist]

Go to page 4. I posted a nice video for you.


Nice work. Here's a video for Angel_Luv


b5ZsR382Cwk

[Shastafarian]

Nice work. Here's a video for Angel_Luv


b5ZsR382Cwk

They took the video down. They must be on to you!!!

[romad_20]

Nice work. Here's a video for Angel_Luv


b5ZsR382Cwk

Damn, is that Roadhouse?

[ElNono]

No what the world needs is less condescending little pricks. So what if she believes what she does. She and the millions of others. All beliefs systems out there deserve respect. Islam, Muslim, Buddhist, Athiests, hindu's, the Jews(I don't know what they call it, cause i was thinking Jewism but no.)etc. Not necessesarily because of what they teach, but because people believe that and its apart of their lives. As long as they are not hurting anybody who the fuck are you to judge what they are.

So fuck you, fuck you're dog, fuck you're car, and fuck anyone like you who puts themselves above reproach. Like it or not you to follow a dogma that may or may not be wrong but you won't know till you're worm fodder.

Talk about missing the entire point. You need to catch up on your reading, especially this part:


I don't have a problem with religious people. I have a problem with lying, irrational, extremist religious people.

I don't condone that she believes in god, I'm actually very respectful of those people, and stated so many times. What I have a problem with is the intellectually dishonest, irrational people that try to impose their religious views on me. I don't care if she believes in the flying spaghetti monster, just respect the fact that I don't, and don't come preaching to me over and over how the world is your way or the highway. That's exactly what intolerance is.

So before you try to pass judgment on me again, make sure you get informed.

[Mr. Peabody]

As long as they aren't proclaiming "Death to Obama" what's wrong with that.

Because it's a stupid fucking belief to hold and she deserves getting called out for it.

She literally believes that Obama could be the anti-Christ and may try to destroy Christianity. What evidence there is for this for her to think it might be him over any other person on this planet, I have no idea. I can only assume it's because at sometime, someone in her narrow-minded circle of religious peers said something about this and now in her mind, it's a perfectly reasonable possibility.

My question is, at what point do you tell yourself that "You know what, he might be the anti-Christ. I had never considered it before, but now that I think about it - it makes sense." How do you get to that point? I'd really like to know.

[TheMadHatter]

The story of Jesus as presented in the four gospels of the New Testament is essentially a piece of fiction. There are no authentic references to such a figure in the works of any historians of the early 1st century CE (common era). The pre-gospel writings of the early Christians also make no reference to the life and teachings of a recent historical Jesus. Paul, for instance, was supposedly Jesus' contemporary, yet he never claimed to have met him in the flesh or to have met anyone else who had done so; he encountered him only in visions, as a spiritual being. The Christian groups of the 1st century CE held extremely diverse theological views, and this would be hard to explain if they were the followers of a single, recent teacher. Remarkably, they showed no interest in the holy sites and relics associated with Jesus' alleged earthly career; it was not until the 4th century that pieces of the 'true cross' began to surface, and that the first shrine was set up on the supposed mount of Jesus' death.

It is only in the four canonical gospels and certain other New Testament writings that the now orthodox story of Jesus is to be found. The gospels, however, were largely written in the 2nd century, have suffered numerous alterations and additions, and contain significant contradictions and inconsistencies. Their shortcomings are recognized by Christian and non-Christian scholars alike. Some theologians are now prepared to question not only the virgin birth and miracles, but even the much more fundamental doctrine of the resurrection. Theology professor Burton Mack, for example, goes as far as to call the gospels' portrayal of Jesus 'fantastic', 'the result of a layered history of imaginative embellishments of a founder figure' [1]. But even the very existence of a great Christian founder figure living at the start of the 1st century is highly implausible, given the silence of contemporary historians and even 1st-century Christians [2].

H.P. Blavatsky stated that the story of Jesus was invented after the 1st century. Jesus, she says,

is a deified personification of the glorified type of the great Hierophants of the Temples, and his story, as told in the New Testament, is an allegory, assuredly containing profound esoteric truths, but still an allegory. . . . Every act of the Jesus of the New Testament, every word attributed to him, every event related of him during the three years of the mission he is said to have accomplished, rests on the programme of the Cycle of Initiation, a cycle founded on the Precession of the Equinoxes and the Signs of the Zodiac. [3]

The gospel figure of Jesus is a Jewish adaptation of the mythical godman found under many different names in ancient pagan mystery religions: in Egypt he was Osiris, in Greece Dionysus, in Asia Minor Attis, in Syria Adonis, in Italy Bacchus, in Persia Mithras. All the major elements of the Jesus story, from the virgin birth to the crucifixion and resurrection, can be found in earlier stories of pagan godmen. As G. de Purucker puts it:

the 'Gospel' story is merely an idealized fiction, written by Christian mystics in imitation of esoteric mysteries of the 'Pagans,' showing the initiation trials and tests of the candidate for initiation; and it is not very well done, there being much error and many mistakes in the 'Gospels.' [4]

There are volumes of conflicting information, each with its own agenda and misleading half-truths. With any controversy like this, the answer usually lies somewhere in the middle. Jesus (or somebody resembling his character) likely existed and was a local folk hero who lived on in tales passed from people who knew him. Keep in mind the first books of the New Testament weren't written until years after his death. Much like any story passed on by word-of-mouth, details begin to change (quite dramatically in some cases) and the story takes on a life of its own. While Jesus may have been a real person, the deification assigned to him was certainly the product of exaggeration. Sadly, these supernatural claims about Christ drown out the positive aspects of Christian philosophy, causing the myths to become the focal point instead of the message.

[peewee's lovechild]

Because it's a stupid fucking belief to hold and she deserves getting called out for it.

She literally believes that Obama could be the anti-Christ and may try to destroy Christianity. What evidence there is for this for her to think it might be him over any other person on this planet, I have no idea. I can only assume it's because at sometime, someone in her narrow-minded circle of religious peers said something about this and now in her mind, it's a perfectly reasonable possibility.

My question is, at what point do you tell yourself that "You know what, he might be the anti-Christ. I had never considered it before, but now that I think about it - it makes sense." How do you get to that point? I'd really like to know.

Her pastor told her that he might be the Anti-Christ, so it must be so.

She's like all those other nut job christians who believe everything their pastor tells them to believe, even when it goes against the very bible itself.

It's pathetic, and she deserves to be called out for it.

And, when she's presented with proof, she refuses to acknowledge what she said was pure idiocy.

Hypocrite.

The wolds needs less of people like her.

[Jelly]

The wolds needs less of people like her.

come on. That's just hateful. Leave the over-the-top hate speech for the McCain rally wackos.

[peewee's lovechild]

come on. That's just hateful. Leave the over-the-top hate speech for the McCain rally wackos.

Over the top??

She's calling Barack Obama The Anti-Christ!!

[balli]

Her pastor told her that he might be the Anti-Christ, so it must be so.

She's like all those other nut job christians who believe everything their pastor tells them to believe, even when it goes against the very bible itself.

It's pathetic, and she deserves to be called out for it.

And, when she's presented with proof, she refuses to acknowledge what she said was pure idiocy.

Hypocrite.

The wolds needs less of people like her.


Because it's a stupid fucking belief to hold and she deserves getting called out for it.

She literally believes that Obama could be the anti-Christ and may try to destroy Christianity. What evidence there is for this for her to think it might be him over any other person on this planet, I have no idea. I can only assume it's because at sometime, someone in her narrow-minded circle of religious peers said something about this and now in her mind, it's a perfectly reasonable possibility.

My question is, at what point do you tell yourself that "You know what, he might be the anti-Christ. I had never considered it before, but now that I think about it - it makes sense." How do you get to that point? I'd really like to know.

+2

[Trainwreck2100]

I don't condone that she believes in god, I'm actually very respectful of those people, and stated so many times. What I have a problem with is the intellectually dishonest, irrational people that try to impose their religious views on me. I don't care if she believes in the flying spaghetti monster, just respect the fact that I don't, and don't come preaching to me over and over how the world is your way or the highway. That's exactly what intolerance is.

So before you try to pass judgment on me again, make sure you get informed.

I'm gonna assume you mean "condemn" there.


Believe it or not there are people out there, that are so blind. Why condemn them and not those that led them in that direction. My biggest qualm was you saying "f you're Jesus, cause her Jesus is my Jesus.

[Jelly]

Over the top??

She's calling Barack Obama The Anti-Christ!!


touche. this whole Anti-Christ thing is make my head spin:downspin: I can't believe it's even being discussed.

[Bartleby]

I'm gonna assume you mean "condemn" there.


Believe it or not there are people out there, that are so blind. Why condemn them and not those that led them in that direction. My biggest qualm was you saying "f you're Jesus, cause her Jesus is my Jesus.

I generally try to respect people's beliefs no matter how wacked out they may seem to me, but I think part of the problem is that a lot of "those people" see it as their duty to lead others in that direction. It's the proselytizing that gets me.

[ElNono]

I'm gonna assume you mean "condemn" there.
Believe it or not there are people out there, that are so blind. Why condemn them and not those that led them in that direction. My biggest qualm was you saying "f you're Jesus, cause her Jesus is my Jesus.

Yes, I meant condemn. I actually don't give a rats ass what other people's belief are. I said many times that religion works for some people, so I'm A-OK with that. This is my problem:



Your life on earth will either be spent in God's hands with His blessings or without help under the relentless attack of Satan.
Which of the two occurs is up to you to choose, as is the destination of your eternal soul.


You know what? My life on earth will be spent neither with Jesus or Satan, and I would really like very much if you respected my view.

And what provoked my use of the 'F' word was:


The World needs Jesus. We all do. Those of you who do not yet know Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior I am praying that you accept Him soon.


Well, I wanted to make sure she didn't waste her time on me. I don't want to accept any lord, or anything to do with her ideology, and I would also like her to respect my viewpoint.

[Mr. Peabody]

Over the top??

She's calling Barack Obama The Anti-Christ!!

:lmao

[atxrocker]

this thread is full of win. and jesus fucking christ, angel_luv, you're a nut job.

[AntiChrist]

Some souls that belong to me....



http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Content/Image/04-08-2008/Jerry-Jones.jpg

http://blogs.jobdig.com/wwds/files/2007/08/cuban_mark050517.jpg


http://thebuzz.sheknows.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/ryanseacrest.jpg


http://weblog.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/afb/archives/Keith%2520Olbermann.jpg


http://www.threesources.com/archives/al_gore_flame.jpg


http://assets.sbnation.com/imported_assets/553/patsajak_2.jpg

[CuckingFunt]

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4241Holy mother of Angel_Luv's God.

It fills me with a warm sense of joy to know that many people/bots may have read my amputated limbs/DP rape scenario.

[CuckingFunt]

http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff339/RS_Davis/antichrist-obama.jpg

If this is a real t-shirt, I'm buying it.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

If this is a real t-shirt, I'm buying it.

Over this?

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a704/a704_bm.gif

[AntiChrist]

You people with scrolling sigs? There is a special place for you in Hell.

[CuckingFunt]

Over this?

http://www.tshirthell.com/shirts/products/a704/a704_bm.gif

Yes.

Amusing as it is, this t-shirt isn't quite as pleasing in terms of graphic design.

[kalyug]

We got to send angel's posts to the Daily Show and Colbert Report. You can't write such amazing comedy. She reminds me of this clip on YouTube of this woman who won't vote for Obama because she's a Christian. Her husband is a working Joe (not a plumber) who's still undecided. "I'll pray for him" she says. Scary, but funny shit.

[Shastafarian]

We got to send angel's posts to the Daily Show and Colbert Report. You can't write such amazing comedy. She reminds me of this clip on YouTube of this woman who won't vote for Obama because she's a Christian. Her husband is a working Joe (not a plumber) who's still undecided. "I'll pray for him" she says. Scary, but funny shit.

I believe that video is somewhere in this thread.

[Findog]

I believe that video is somewhere in this thread.


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-4wQfQtpDAc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-4wQfQtpDAc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I'll post it again, and I'll say it again: Not only does she need to have her ovaries removed ASAP, but she should be hunted for sport

[LnGrrrR]

I registered for this site just so I can say:

1) I've read this thread from front to back. Hilarious.

2) Thank goodness the sane people outnumber the (relatively small) amount of insane people.

3) It's nice to see other non-believers who firmly state they have no time for irrationality while still showing respect for all kinds of rational (or even arational) beliefs.

:p:

[Findog]

I registered for this site just so I can say:

1) I've read this thread from front to back. Hilarious.

2) Thank goodness the sane people outnumber the (relatively small) amount of insane people.

3) It's nice to see other non-believers who firmly state they have no time for irrationality while still showing respect for all kinds of rational (or even arational) beliefs.

:p:


Welcome to Spurs Talk.

[romad_20]

We got to send angel's posts to the Daily Show and Colbert Report. You can't write such amazing comedy. She reminds me of this clip on YouTube of this woman who won't vote for Obama because she's a Christian. Her husband is a working Joe (not a plumber) who's still undecided. "I'll pray for him" she says. Scary, but funny shit.

Done and done.

[ElNono]

I registered for this site just so I can say:

1) I've read this thread from front to back. Hilarious.

2) Thank goodness the sane people outnumber the (relatively small) amount of insane people.

3) It's nice to see other non-believers who firmly state they have no time for irrationality while still showing respect for all kinds of rational (or even arational) beliefs.

:p:

Welcome. You should stick around, this site has awesome written all over it.

[Bartleby]

We got to send angel's posts to the Daily Show and Colbert Report. You can't write such amazing comedy.

I can already see Jason Jones and Samantha Bee doing the interviews.

[TheMadHatter]

I pretty much stumbled onto this site by accident one day and have been hooked ever since. It's threads like this that keep me here.

The Political Forum here has been great this election. It's nice to have both sides represented, even if one side is devoid of intellectual thought.

[td4mvp21]

I actually grew up in a strong evangelical Christian family (still am growing up with them, I guess you could say). I can't tell you how many times they called Clinton, Gore, Kerry, etc. the anti-Christ. Not sure if they were serious but I distinctly remember hearing that.

[Findog]

I pretty much stumbled onto this site by accident one day and have been hooked ever since. It's threads like this that keep me here.

The Political Forum here has been great this election. It's nice to have both sides represented, even if one side is devoid of intellectual thought.

I've been here since the 06 semis between Dallas and San Antonio. There have been many great days on SpursTalk since that time, but this is without a doubt the finest hour, at least for me anyways. I never participated in the Scola threads.

[LnGrrrR]

El Nono- Welcome. You should stick around, this site has awesome written all over it.

You've certainly made a good first impression.

[AFBlue]

The Political Forum here has been great this election. It's nice to have both sides represented, even if one side is devoid of intellectual thought.

I resemble that remark!

[duncan228]

There have been many great days on SpursTalk since that time, but this is without a doubt the finest hour, at least for me anyways. I never participated in the Scola threads.

:lmao

[Findog]

:lmao

I bet any Scola thread could go 10 pages, easy.

[MannyIsGod]

We've had some epic threads in the past, but this is one of the best of all time. No doubt about that.

[Findog]

We've had some epic threads in the past, but this is one of the best of all time. No doubt about that.

5 hours later and still 700+ viewing. Thanks to Andy Sullivan. I think Dark Reign and I should get Spurs for this.

[whottt]

RE: Obama is the Anti-Christ


Which one?


If he's the third one predicted by Nostradamus(after Napeoleon and Hitler), then it's not so much what he's going to do...it's that he's going to assassinated and that's what starts the horrors(whatever they may be). So Obama could in effect be the best guy ever and still be the Anti-Christ according to Nostradamus.


The biblical Anti-Christ will most likely be an Atheist, Muslim or Jew...more than likely an Atheist who is against all religion, Christianity being the main one of course...there's no guarantees that the biblical Anti-Christ will even be an individual, it could be a country, it could be movement...the definition is pretty broad.

Me? I think it's a person or movement trying to unite the world under a single government....lots of candidates for that. But IMO, there is no way to have a single world government without tyrannical rule and oppression and the supression of all religion.

If you think long and hard about it, and read it...Communism is obviously the biblical Anti-Christ. It's anti-Religion and seeks to rule all, it emerged in the West(the biblical West) in many places at once, and it was created by a man who denied Christ being the Savior(on a variety of levels).

I think it's pretty obvious that it's Communism that is the Anti-Christ




As for whether or not it's Obama...

All things I've read point to the Anti-Christ coming from Europe...it comes out of the West in the bible...and Nostradmus' other two Anti-Christs came out of Europe so the third one probably will as well....like Napoleon and Hitler, and Communism.

[Findog]

I think it's pretty obvious that it's Communism that is the Anti-Christ




.

Communism has certainly triumphed, has it not? :lol

[timvp]

Agreed. Can I get a restart on this, timvp?

Call this thread what you want...like, "AntiChrist: Now or Never?" or some shit.Yeah, you can start a new thread. Don't gotta ask me, though. SpursTalk is self correcting.

:smokin


5 hours later and still 700+ viewing. Thanks to Andy Sullivan. I think Dark Reign and I should get Spurs for this.Good idea.

[whottt]

Communism has certainly triumphed, has it not? :lol

Did I say the Anti-Christ has triumped you stupid fuck? No I didn't..stupid.

Goddamn idiots who think they're smart are fucking annoying.

[Trainwreck2100]

Can someone explain this Sullivan thing, like did he link because of DarReigns post or Angel_luv's?

[baseline bum]

Man, this thread is full of win. :lmao

Findog, don't be so hard on the fat bitch and her ovaries. Without dumbasses like her, in 20 years there would be no one to cook my fries or dance on the pole for singles at the club. Imagine a world with no Whataburger nor prostitutes.

[Trainwreck2100]

Man, this thread is full of win. :lmao

Findog, don't be so hard on the fat bitch and her ovaries. Without dumbasses like her, in 20 years there would be no one to cook my fries or dance on the pole for singles at the club. Imagine a world with no Whataburger nor prostitutes.

In that world the Anti-Christ has truly won

[ElNono]

Did I say the Anti-Christ has triumped you stupid fuck? No I didn't..stupid.

Goddamn idiots who think they're smart are fucking annoying.

You're too late to ridicule yourself in this thread. Angel beat you to it.
Don't worry though, you're still the undisputed clown of this forum.

[duncan228]

Can someone explain this Sullivan thing, like did he link because of DarReigns post or Angel_luv's?

Findog sent it to him.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2839453&postcount=340

[tp2021]

5 hours later and still 700+ viewing. Thanks to Andy Sullivan. I think Dark Reign and I should get Spurs for this.



Good idea.

I got my roommate to read the thread. What do I get?

:blah

[hater]

5 hours later and still 700+ viewing. Thanks to Andy Sullivan. I think Dark Reign and I should get Spurs for this.

Hey I think me and especially bartleby deserve those too. It was our inquisitive questions that pulled the real luv out of angel luv

[JoeChalupa]

I wasn't joking Manny. I have an authentic concern about Senator Obama.

I hope I am wrong but I can't just take your guys' word for it.

Knowing the truth is a way greater priority to me than whether or not you guys think I am crazy in the process of discovering it.

Rest assured, when I am sure one way or the other, I will glady post it.

I am totally shocked that you've actually given thought of Obama being the Anti-Christ. But if anyone deserves a Spur it is you for your honesty and keeping the faith. :tu

[Satan]

I'm the anti-christ you dumb asses!! It'll be easier than I thought. :lmao

[baseline bum]

I am totally shocked that you've actually given thought of Obama being the Anti-Christ. But if anyone deserves a Spur it is you for your honesty and keeping the faith. :tu

whiskey tango foxtrot?

[JoeChalupa]

whiskey tango foxtrot?

Alpha Beta Charlie

[ElNono]

I am totally shocked that you've actually given thought of Obama being the Anti-Christ. But if anyone deserves a Spur it is you for your honesty and keeping the faith. :tu

:lmao

[tp2021]

Oscar India Tango Alpha Charlie

[angel_luv]

I am totally shocked that you've actually given thought of Obama being the Anti-Christ. But if anyone deserves a Spur it is you for your honesty and keeping the faith. :tu

Thank you for being so kind, Joe.

I know you are a supporter of Senator Obama, so you're patience with me means a lot.

I have had the thought more than once throughout this election process, primaries included, " I wonder if Senator Obama is the anti-christ?" .

It is just a thought that has stayed in the back of my mind and because of that I am waiting to see how it plays out.
As I tried to stress, it is not an accusation I can prove or even fully explain- but rather a gut feeling that I am still investigating.
I feel I owe it to myself to take my concerns seriously and investigate them, no matter how unreasonable or outrageous they may seem.

PeeWee- I left for work as you were posting and am just now able to respond to you. I appreciate the information you gave me and I will consider it.

I plan to read some of Senator Obama's writings and will see if that does not clarify things for me.

Again thank you for the information.

[tp2021]

Foxtrot
Uniform
Charlie...

[ElNono]

:bang

[JoeChalupa]

Thank you for being so kind, Joe.

I know you are a supporter of Senator Obama, so you're patience with me means a lot.

I have had the thought more than once throughout this election process, primaries included, " I wonder if Senator Obama is the anti-christ?" .

It is just a thought that has stayed in the back of my mind and because of that I am waiting to see how it plays out.
As I tried to stress, it is not an accusation I can prove or even fully explain- but rather a gut feeling that I am still investigating.
I feel I owe it to myself to take my concerns seriously and investigate them, no matter how unreasonable or outrageous they may seem.

PeeWee- I left for work as you were posting and am just now able to respond to you. I appreciate the information you gave me and I will consider it.

I plan to read some of Senator Obama's writings and will see if that does not clarify things for me.

Again thank you for the information.

I just don't understand how the whole "anti-Christ" thought even popped into your head. That just doesn't make sense to me and from reading your posts I doubt your feelings are going to change.

[Shastafarian]

As I tried to stress, it is not an accusation I can prove or even fully explain- but rather a gut feeling that I am still investigating.
I feel I owe it to myself to take my concerns seriously and investigate them, no matter how unreasonable or outrageous they may seem.


Sweet like on Ghost Hunters? Is there a show Anti-Christ Hunters? There should be.