Who Should be the Last Cut?

[urunobili]

Expecting that neither JV nor Bonner will be traded make your choice...

I am including Tolliver since his contract is not fully guaranteed and he could get cut as well doesn't matter how much of a lock he sounded to be by Pop... he has mislead us before...

[tp2021]

Tolliver seems to be a lock. Who I think will get cut is a tough one, between Hairston and Farmer. But as to who I think SHOULD get cut, I say Tolliver.

[VaSpursFan]

i chose Malik Hairstron...well because his name was spelled wrong...LOL

[lurker23]

As far as pure talent and potential goes, I think I would cut Tolliver. However, with the lack of big-man depth, I think Tolliver fills more of a "worst-case scenario" need than Farmer, so I expect Farmer to get the axe.

[tav1]

Since you asked "who should" and not "who will..."

[Darkwaters]

Tolliver seems to be a lock. Who I think will get cut is a tough one, between Hairston and Farmer. But as to who I think SHOULD get cut, I say Tolliver.

Ditto

[Chomag]

I agree on tolliver being cut. From what I seen he dosn't realy bring anything to the team we dont have allready other then being a chunker(I dont think I have seen him pass the ball once it get to him yet) I'm just not sold that a high valume shooter(chunk it untill it eventually goes in) works all that well in the spurs system, and I much rather see a silent assassin type shooter,one that will sneak in and take those good high% shots.

Ahh but of course the powers of the mancrash is strong so I doubt we will see cutting him even close to an option

[sexinthatsx]

Tolliver, most definately

[Chomag]

Not saying I hate the guy (Tolliver), but Farmer and Hairston bring the spurs things they do not have much of.

[benefactor]

Farmer has to go. I have explained why in other threads but Ill give you the short version. Bonner sucks and Ian is a mystery...so its safe to say there is trouble on the front line. Even with his deficiencies, Tolliver does enough to keep Bonner on the bench. That in itself is a huge positive. Hairston is a better all around player and a better prospect for the future.

[hater]

Hairston. He brings nothing new to the table at the moment.

Tolliver, eventhough he's been sucking. Is a bigger body. He could guard the bigger forwards. Farmer needs to be kept. he is fast, can shoot and even athletic.

[hater]

damn funny we all pick different players.

my opinion is based on last night's game where Hairston looked slow and he does not have much hops. not to mention he missed everything.

[benefactor]

damn funny we all pick different players.

my opinion is based on last night's game where Hairston looked slow and he does not have much hops. not to mention he missed everything.
http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081010/capt.a51fc50d22564ff3ae1a8795dcac7371.spurs_rocket s_basketball_txbl105.jpg

[lurker23]

Farmer has to go. I have explained why in other threads but Ill give you the short version. Bonner sucks and Ian is a mystery...so its safe to say there is trouble on the front line. Even with his deficiencies, Tolliver does enough to keep Bonner on the bench. That in itself is a huge positive. Hairston is a better all around player and a better prospect for the future.

I'd be very surprised if Tolliver takes any significant minutes away from Bonner. I think Bonner averages 14-17 minutes per game, and Tolliver spends most of the season in Austin.

That said, I agree that Tolliver needs to stay on the 15-man roster to add slightly more depth to the big man situation. Either that, or find another big man via trade or other teams' training camp waivers.

[bgoines]

It has to be between Tolliver and Hairston, because farmer is a for sure keeper. Tolliver and hairston are both talents that can be replaced i dont see too many people dropping 4 3pointers in a quarter like desmon did last night . KEEP DESMOND FARMER FO SHO!

[Flux451]

Scoring, size, or athlectism. Damn, everything we need.

Farmer, someone who has proved consistent scoring.

Tolliver, provides size and decent scoring, offensive rebounding.

Hairston, all around athlectism, a lot like udoka but more energy.

Provided last years run from the beginning, we need scoring and we need size to defend bigs in west.

So, I say cut Hairston.

Damn, Bonner and Vaughn to Bball Hell!!

[ss1986v2]

am i the only one who couldnt care less about this subject?

i think most everyone thinks tolliver is a lock from what we have all read/seen, so it comes down to farmer and hairston, right? between the two, i dont care whether either one makes it, or if both get cut, or if bonner spontaneously combusted and both had a spot. they are end of the bench fodder (upgraded from the original camp fodder position), and i hope neither sees minute one on the court.

we are four deep on the wings (five after manu is back) and all four are clearly better than either of these two new options. maybe one of them fills in for 8 or so minutes a game until everything gets settled, but before long either one will be wearing a suit or waving a towel.

[Obstructed_View]

damn funny we all pick different players.

my opinion is based on last night's game where Hairston looked slow and he does not have much hops. not to mention he missed everything.

I'm sorry, but Hairston shot better than Tolliver, outrebounded him, played great defense, was good in transition, and played some point guard. Your opinion would seem to be based on something other than last night's game.

[Obstructed_View]

Tolliver seems to be a lock. Who I think will get cut is a tough one, between Hairston and Farmer. But as to who I think SHOULD get cut, I say Tolliver.

Yeah, I'm sure I don't understand Pop's man crushes, but they have nothing to do with production on the court. Pop stood up and cheered when Tolliver needed three tries to lay the ball in when he should have just dunked it, but there was no reaction whatsoever when Farmer was nailing those threes.

[024]

right now the spurs should keep the best players, not ones who fit a certain need. if the spurs keep farmer, it will make either mason or farmer himself expendable. that means the spurs will finally able to have some trade bait to package with bonner or vaughn later on.

[manufor3]

Tolliver seems to be a lock. Who I think will get cut is a tough one, between Hairston and Farmer. But as to who I think SHOULD get cut, I say Tolliver.

[Slinkyman]

am i the only one who couldnt care less about this subject?

i think most everyone thinks tolliver is a lock from what we have all read/seen, so it comes down to farmer and hairston, right? between the two, i dont care whether either one makes it, or if both get cut, or if bonner spontaneously combusted and both had a spot. they are end of the bench fodder (upgraded from the original camp fodder position), and i hope neither sees minute one on the court.

we are four deep on the wings (five after manu is back) and all four are clearly better than either of these two new options. maybe one of them fills in for 8 or so minutes a game until everything gets settled, but before long either one will be wearing a suit or waving a towel.

For someone who could care less you've written more about it then anybody in this thread, kinda ironic eh?

[ss1986v2]

For someone who could care less you've written more about it then anybody in this thread, kinda ironic eh?
im a walking contradiction...

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I'd love to see the Spurs turn Vaughn into a coach, dump Bonner and keep the young guys. As it is, I think all three of those guys on your list have possibilities and I hate to see any of them not given a shot.

[ducks]

duncan

[mexicanjunior]

Tolliver will be a spare...keep Farmer and Hairston.

[galvatron3000]

Tolliver will be a spare...keep Farmer and Hairston.

I'm inclined to think this is the best way to go. Doubt it but it could happened. Ian being hurt makes Tolliver a need

[Bruno]

Spurs can do whatever they want with the last couple of roster spots. From what I've seen, Farmer, Hairston and Tolliver are quite marginal NBA talent.
I wouldn't even be disapointed if they waive all three.

[galvatron3000]

Spurs can do whatever they want with the last couple of roster spots. From what I've seen, Farmer, Hairston and Tolliver are quite marginal NBA talent.
I wouldn't even be disapointed if they waive all three.

if they did that then I wouldn't expect much in the future. You have to start DEVELOPING young guys at some point if for nothing but trade bait. We are not going to get 1st round talent through the draft or trade with nothing and the payroll for the Spurs stays low because of the market they are These guys are worth developing for now especially when the ace was grabbing guys from overseas and now that's out i.e Tiago Splitter and James Gist

[barbacoataco]

I guess they need Tolliver since Bonner sucks (no defense) and Mahinmi is still a big question mark. Since Oberto and Thomas are both slow and similar players, the Spurs just don't have much depth at the PF/C position.

I like Hairston better than Farmer because he is younger, bigger and more athletic. Neither one would play that much this year barring disaster, so why not go with the potential? Also, I think Hairston would be more attractive as trade bait, maybe packaged with Bonner and traded for a veteran big and 2nd round pick.

[Obstructed_View]

I guess they need Tolliver since Bonner sucks (no defense) and Mahinmi is still a big question mark. Since Oberto and Thomas are both slow and similar players, the Spurs just don't have much depth at the PF/C position.
The thing that has me pulling my hair out is that Tolliver doesn't do anything that Bonner doesn't do. He's not a defender, he's not a rebounder, he's not a ball handler, and he's not a great decision maker. He's certainly not looking like any better a shooter. All keeping Tolliver does is give the Spurs twice as many crappy backup power forwards on the roster, and a big who plays like a wing. I have a feeling all he's going to do is keep Bonner's spot in the doghouse warm from time to time.

If you are worried about Bonner's defense, you keep Hairston, not Tolliver. If you care about scoring, you keep Farmer, not Tolliver. That leaves him out AFAIC. The only arguments I've seen for keeping him are either incorrect facts about his game or statements that it's a fait accompli just because of things that come up when entering Pop's quotes into a secret decoder ring. To paraphrase Charles Barkley: Tolliver's tall, but so is a stepladder, and I don't want a stepladder out there on the floor in November with a Spurs jersey on it.

[galvatron3000]

Yeah, but Tolliver is cheaper

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, but Tolliver is cheaper

Cheaper than what? The Spurs have a contract invested in Farmer and have a draft pick invested in Hairston. If they are going to piss that away to keep a guy that won't pan out in the long run then I suppose they deserve him.

[galvatron3000]

Cheaper than what? The Spurs have a contract invested in Farmer and have a draft pick invested in Hairston. If they are going to piss that away to keep a guy that won't pan out in the long run then I suppose they deserve him.


Tolliver is cheaper than Bonner is all I'm saying, contract is less

Anthony Tolliver (TR) $711,517 2 years

Matt Bonner $2,978,000 2 years

[ss1986v2]

if they did that then I wouldn't expect much in the future. You have to start DEVELOPING young guys at some point if for nothing but trade bait.
you dont develop rotations worthy talent from your camp fodder. you develop bench fodder from your camp fodder. these guys are marginal players and will have marginal impacts over their careers. such players do not, nor will not have much of any trade value.

and if tolliver, farmer, and hairston are our future, we are screwed regardless.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm sure the Spurs are trying to get rid of Bonner. Eventually we could get one of these cut dudes back.

[galvatron3000]

you dont develop rotations worthy talent from your camp fodder. you develop bench fodder from your camp fodder. these guys are marginal players and will have marginal impacts over their careers. such players do not, nor will not have much of any trade value.

and if tolliver, farmer, and hairston are our future, we are screwed regardless.

well I respect what you're saying I've yet to see any of these guys play so I reserve judgement on whether they are fodder or not. There have been gems from the second round and from guys who haven't made team cuts, I remember when McGrady and J.O'Neal where supposedly on their way out the league, you have to develop some guys. Everyone is not coming through the draft and the Spurs' approach lends me to believe developing what you have is a good way to go until you can atleast bring in Superstar talent.

[Obstructed_View]

Tolliver is cheaper than Bonner is all I'm saying, contract is less

Anthony Tolliver (TR) $711,517 2 years

Matt Bonner $2,978,000 2 years

Oh yeah. Gotcha. I've said a number of times, that if it were possible to choose between Tolliver and Bonner, I'd be fine with taking Tolliver. It's not likely the Spurs are going to be able to move him before they have to make a decision on cuts.


I'm sure the Spurs are trying to get rid of Bonner. Eventually we could get one of these cut dudes back.
I'd say that Tolliver is the least likely of the three that are left to be picked up, so if they think they can free up a roster spot, he's still the cut to make.

[ss1986v2]

well I respect what you're saying I've yet to see any of these guys play so I reserve judgement on whether they are fodder or not. There have been gems from the second round and from guys who haven't made team cuts, I remember when McGrady and J.O'Neal where supposedly on their way out the league, you have to develop some guys. Everyone is not coming through the draft and the Spurs' approach lends me to believe developing what you have is a good way to go until you can atleast bring in Superstar talent.
those guys were the 9th pick and 17th pick in the draft, and were both straight out of high school. the guys we are talking about are both 4 year seniors, one of them being 2 years removed from his collegiate days after going undrafted and the other being a mid 2nd round pick after a somewhat underwhelming college career. and both are fighting it out with the other camp fodder to make it as the 15th man.

sure, there is always a chance that one of these guys is the 1 in 100 shot guys, like jamario moon was last year. but out of all the camp fodder on all the teams last year, hes probably the only guy to actually have any impact. so if we figure each team brings in between 3 and 5 of these guys to camp, and we have 30 teams, it would be generous to say that these guys have about a 1% chance of becoming a marginal rotational player.

im not trying to be a douche about all this (or some long-winded sequ), but i just get sick of hearing how we better sign player x because we need whatever it is that he brings. when in reality the only things these guys will be bringing is donuts to practice and a suit to game nights...

[galvatron3000]

Hey if Luke Walton can find a niche in the NBA then I like their chances, I don't expect to find a Superstar in those guys but if we can get a MArio Elie type I'd be happy.

[MrChug]

Tolliver's a lock and Farmer seems to be too confident and effective a shooter. I like his attitude too. His workouts are great. I see it being Hairston, but we won't know till the deadline according to Pop.

[benefactor]

The thing that has me pulling my hair out is that Tolliver doesn't do anything that Bonner doesn't do. He's not a defender, he's not a rebounder, he's not a ball handler, and he's not a great decision maker. He's certainly not looking like any better a shooter. All keeping Tolliver does is give the Spurs twice as many crappy backup power forwards on the roster, and a big who plays like a wing. I have a feeling all he's going to do is keep Bonner's spot in the doghouse warm from time to time.

Now you are just making stuff up. How is he not a rebounder? He had 8 boards in the Indy game with 4 on the offensive glass...and that wasn't his only multiple offensive rebounding game. He has also had a couple of games with multiple steals. If he can do those things he is already 150% better than Bonner. Its also unfair to compare him to Bonner because Bonner KNOWS the system. Tolliver...like the other invitees is still learning...and he is STILL outplaying Bonner. I agree the shooting hasn't been there...but it was so noticeable he was trying too hard in the first couple of games that even Duncan said something about it. He has gotten better with every game. He had his best rebounding game in the Indy game and he had his best shooting game statistically last night.


If you are worried about Bonner's defense, you keep Hairston, not Tolliver. If you care about scoring, you keep Farmer, not Tolliver. That leaves him out AFAIC. The only arguments I've seen for keeping him are either incorrect facts about his game or statements that it's a fait accompli just because of things that come up when entering Pop's quotes into a secret decoder ring. To paraphrase Charles Barkley: Tolliver's tall, but so is a stepladder, and I don't want a stepladder out there on the floor in November with a Spurs jersey on it.
So what are you saying? Are you saying that you are wanting to play Hairston at PF? :lol He is just big enough to be a SG/SF tweener. I know he plays pretty good man defense and seems pretty fearless...but I have a hard time trusting that against a PF. Its funny how you would love to keep Farmer...but you completely ignore the deficiencies in his game like you ignore the good in Tollivers. You say you don't want a stepladder out there in November. I would counter with I don't want a streaky 3pt shooter that has been unimpressive finishing at the rim and plays very little defense.

At the end of the day all of these guys have positives and negatives. Its a crap shoot either way. I maintain that we need the size over the shooting.

[angelbelow]

this is so tough....

[xellos88330]

I think that Hairston could provide an array of intangibles during the course of a game. So far Farmer has been one dimensional in my eyes. Sure the guy can score alot, but other teams will figure that out and will do all they can to slow him down.

[Flux451]

I think that Hairston could provide an array of intangibles during the course of a game. So far Farmer has been one dimensional in my eyes. Sure the guy can score alot, but other teams will figure that out and will do all they can to slow him down.

It's called rotating the ball.

If we have a great shooter, leaves others open or disables a double team.

[Manufan909]

damn funny we all pick different players.

my opinion is based on last night's game where Hairston looked slow and he does not have much hops. not to mention he missed everything.

You go make a sandwich when he almost had an alley oop dunk from Farmer? Or dunked on Yao while he was flat-footed(courtesy of OV)!!! Next you're going to say Tolliver takes high % shots.:downspin:

[Solid D]

For what it's worth, I've done some calculations on preseason +/- for the two wings, Hairston and Farmer.

Plus/Minus = team point differential during the player's time on the floor

Through the Washington game (6 games each):
Hairston +44
Farmer +16

Hairston has averaged 3.7 mpg (21.7) more than Farmer (18.0).

There are many factors that go into +/- numbers, but over time a case can be made for a player's impact on the team. Manu Ginobili led the Spurs in 2007-08 regular season in +/-.

[johnnyblues]

Based from the preseason games, I'd say Tolliver.

[Manufan909]

Was Tolliver even positive?

[TDMVPDPOY]

the problem is pop loves vets...fuck that shit no time to perm some young fella into what we want him to be, we are in a win win situation now, last chance

[Solid D]

Was Tolliver even positive?

I have not done Tolliver's numbers, yet. At this juncture, barring a trade or another signing, I think the battle is between the two wing players. The Spurs really have wanted to add a combo 4/3 this season, if possible.

[Obstructed_View]

Now you are just making stuff up. How is he not a rebounder? He had 8 boards in the Indy game with 4 on the offensive glass...and that wasn't his only multiple offensive rebounding game. He has also had a couple of games with multiple steals. If he can do those things he is already 150% better than Bonner.
That is, by far, the best case I've seen made for Tolliver yet. Thank you very much for not saying that he's a lock and I should shut up.

Tolliver is better than Bonner in rebounding, which doesn't really make him stellar, as Hairston is outrebounding Bonner too. The last time someone posted stats, Hairston was out rebounding Tolliver too. He's passed Hairston with his performance in the last two games, but not by much (about 2 per 48 minutes). I didn't see the Indy game, but it looks like he did a good job of chasing down long rebounds off missed jumpers, which indicates he was hustling the way he did last night in the 4th quarter. All that said, Bonner got 17 boards in a game once. It doesn't make him a good rebounder. What we've seen is all we have to go on, so he certainly deserves some credit for it, but if rebounding is why he's here, he doesn't do it very well for his size. What makes people think he's a lock is because he's a shooter, not because he's a defender or a rebounder. He certainly hasn't looked like a defender or a shot blocker. What he does seem to do really well for his size is get steals. He's very often just standing there when someone throws him the ball, and it's happened too often to think it's just coincidence. He gets his hands in on a lot of plays.


Its also unfair to compare him to Bonner because Bonner KNOWS the system. Tolliver...like the other invitees is still learning...and he is STILL outplaying Bonner. I agree the shooting hasn't been there...but it was so noticeable he was trying too hard in the first couple of games that even Duncan said something about it. He has gotten better with every game. He had his best rebounding game in the Indy game and he had his best shooting game statistically last night.
His best shooting game statistically wasn't very good. Again, saying he's better than Bonner doesn't mean anything until you get rid of Bonner. I'm all for Tolliver instead of Bonner, but those two guys aren't competing for a spot on the roster.

And techincally, I don't know that I'd suggest that Bonner "knows" the system. :)


So what are you saying? Are you saying that you are wanting to play Hairston at PF? :lol He is just big enough to be a SG/SF tweener. I know he plays pretty good man defense and seems pretty fearless...but I have a hard time trusting that against a PF.
Please don't try to tell me that Tolliver is being considered for this roster because of his defense. Tolliver's height doesn't automatically make him capable of playing big guys, and he's anything but a shot blocker. Bonner, Duncan, Mahinmi, Oberto and Thomas are all capable of defending the bigger fours and fives, and Hairston can defend bigger longer players right out of the gate. He'd be a lot easier to cover for on defense IMHO. I don't see how you can't keep two of the Spurs' current bigs on the floor at all times. Besides, if the Spurs really cared about who can defend bigger guys, they'd have kept Watkins. Perhaps Tolliver can be a defensive force. He's certainly got the length for it, but neither you nor I have seen it yet. He simply doesn't play the game like a big guy so far. At this point he's a really tall shooting guard.


Its funny how you would love to keep Farmer...but you completely ignore the deficiencies in his game like you ignore the good in Tollivers. You say you don't want a stepladder out there in November. I would counter with I don't want a streaky 3pt shooter that has been unimpressive finishing at the rim and plays very little defense.
I don't want that either, but you just described Tolliver as much as you did Farmer. I've admitted that there's not a statistical reason to keep Farmer, but he has shown some ability to hit shots when they matter, and he's a proven scorer. I'm not sure about the unimpressive thing. He looked awfully good in the Detroit game. He played quite a few minutes with the starters against Washington and did pretty well. I haven't seen any deficiencies in his game I haven't seen in other guys that the Spurs have brought in, and I just have a gut feeling that he's got an upside. My gut feelings are hit or miss. I thought Ginobili was going to be a great player, but I thought Walt Williams was too.


At the end of the day all of these guys have positives and negatives. Its a crap shoot either way.
I completely agree. It certainly won't break my heart to have Tolliver on the team, but I suspect the Spurs will regret the decision someday. Farmer wasn't on my radar at all, but from the very little I've seen of him, he looks like a guy who's ready to take the next step. Maybe he won't, and maybe he just reminds me so much of Stephen Jackson that I'm getting overly wishful. That's possible, but he won me over so I'm making the case.


I maintain that we need the size over the shooting.
I agree, which is why I wanted the Spurs to keep Watkins. Keeping a guy that shoots from the outside just because he's taller than a guy who can really score the basketball in a year that you are emphasising offense puzzles me. If Bonner is going to be useless, I don't see Tolliver as an Horry replacement. If he makes the team, I'll be hoping I'm wrong all year long.

[Solid D]

Okay, I did the plus/minus for Tolliver for 6 preseason games. It is a +15 in 20.5 mpg.

+/- Totals through six games:
Hairston +44
Farmer +16
Tolliver +15

[tp2021]

Hairston FTW

[angelbelow]

Okay, I did the plus/minus for Tolliver for 6 preseason games. It is a +15 in 20.5 mpg.

+/- Totals through six games:
Hairston +44
Farmer +16
Tolliver +15

hairston!

[Obstructed_View]

Okay, I did the plus/minus for Tolliver for 6 preseason games. It is a +15 in 20.5 mpg.

+/- Totals through six games:
Hairston +44
Farmer +16
Tolliver +15

Funny how defense still matters.

[Manufan909]

I have not done Tolliver's numbers, yet. At this juncture, barring a trade or another signing, I think the battle is between the two wing players. The Spurs really have wanted to add a combo 4/3 this season, if possible.

You think Tolliver could be that? Sorry, I'm confused.:(

[Ice009]

Spurs can do whatever they want with the last couple of roster spots. From what I've seen, Farmer, Hairston and Tolliver are quite marginal NBA talent.
I wouldn't even be disapointed if they waive all three.

They're all superior to Marcus Williams.

[Ice009]

It's called rotating the ball.

If we have a great shooter, leaves others open or disables a double team.

Exactly. You have Manu, Finley, Mason, Farmer out there it will leave Tim with single coverage inside.

[angelbelow]

Exactly. You have Manu, Finley, Mason, Farmer out there it will leave Tim with single coverage inside.

well.. you can kind of argue that tolliver instead of farmer would give duncan single coverage as well. if tolliver starts hitting his shots at least.

[tp2021]

Exactly. You have Manu, Finley, Mason, Farmer out there it will leave Tim with single coverage inside.

That's like microball.

[Obstructed_View]

well.. you can kind of argue that tolliver instead of farmer would give duncan single coverage as well. if tolliver starts hitting his shots at least.

You could argue that Watkins would give Duncan single coverage if he hit shots, but is it a good idea to?

[timtonymanu]

i accidentally voted for farmer, but i would like tolliver out. we dont need a 3-10 from the field shooter. we already have Finley.

[kobyz]

it's need to be very easy decision, Bonner need to be cut. Bonner is useless, he can't play, he has negative trade value and the spurs could never trade him cause no one will want him.
it will be sad if the spurs will keep Bonner who has no chance to help the Spurs at the expense of other player who has the chance to be good and to contribute.

[angelbelow]

You could argue that Watkins would give Duncan single coverage if he hit shots, but is it a good idea to?

yea you probably could. but that would be a lot harder to argue than saying tolliver could stretch the floor with his shooting like farmer can.

[AusSpursFan]

I have not done Tolliver's numbers, yet. At this juncture, barring a trade or another signing, I think the battle is between the two wing players. The Spurs really have wanted to add a combo 4/3 this season, if possible.

this being the case, why did we ship Gist off to Italy?

[mountainballer]

my point to keep Tolliver is, that he would take Bonner's spot in the big rotation, if Bonner is traded. and we will need Bonner's salary, to somehow get a package for a useful player.

Hairston IMO also fits the Spurs plans long term. Ime's contract expires 2009, he will for sure look for a more than just a one year extension, but then he will cut into the 2010 cap space. Hairston will be able to provide most of what Ime does, but with a much higher upside.
it could even open the option to include Ime in a trade package, some teams will look for a decent defender and as mentioned, his contract is expiring.

[DannyT]

is T-park an option?

[AC#21_TD ERA]

The Spurs made a big mistake by cutting Salim. They should of signed him let him get 100% while Hill plays back up PG. What a shame. Farmer has to make the team he's been the best of the candidates while the brick layer Tolliver has shot the ball for us according to Pop, who can't shoot the ball, is that how bad the spurs need offense if you shoot 23% you make the team. Geez what a joke. Now i know why Vaughn is still on the roster.

[The Truth #6]

is T-park an option?

That's funny.

I think Tolliver already made the team when they chose him over Gist. It's going to be Farmer that gets cut for whatever reason.

[galvatron3000]

Salim has a groin injury so him being able to help the Spurs or any team this season is slim to none. groin injuries require rest. He can't get that trying to make a team participating in training camp, which is why he reinjured himself. He can get some rest the next few months and possibly join a team around Feb. and help out then. Signing him just to ride the bench when you can get young bodies that you can use doesn't make much sense.

[The Truth #6]

Salim has a groin injury so him being able to help the Spurs or any team this season is slim to none. groin injuries require rest. He can't get that trying to make a team participating in training camp, which is why he reinjured himself. He can get some rest the next few months and possibly join a team around Feb. and help out then. Signing him just to ride the bench when you can get young body that you can use doesn't make much sense.

That's probably why they cut him.

[Drom John]

If twelth man, then Hairston.
But since this is 15th man, then Farmer since Hairston has better upside.

[galvatron3000]

That's probably why they cut him.

exactly

[Russ]

Geez, think of the log jam if Splitter had come.:rollin

[gingerwave]

Most definitely Tolliver.

[Flux451]

Salim has a groin injury so him being able to help the Spurs or any team this season is slim to none. groin injuries require rest. He can't get that trying to make a team participating in training camp, which is why he reinjured himself. He can get some rest the next few months and possibly join a team around Feb. and help out then. Signing him just to ride the bench when you can get young bodies that you can use doesn't make much sense.

Word up. It takes a while for a groin injury to heal. LIke 6 to 10 weeks. THen it is like a sprained ankle, prone to relapse.

It's unfortunate but hopefully he will still be around in the future.

[benefactor]

Wow...22 people actually voted for Hairston to be cut.:wtf

[urunobili]

Wow...22 people actually voted for Hairston to be cut.:wtf

you can see their names clicking on the actual number... :devil

[Darkwaters]

That's like microball.

That rotation is big at the PG position at least.

[Darkwaters]

Geez, think of the log jam if Splitter had come.:rollin


If Splitter had come I doubt Tolliver would have ever been considered? Maybe as a one for one swap out with Bonner. Hence, we'd just be arguing over Hairston/Farmer.

[bgoines]

It amazing that this is even a big discussion. Malik and Desmon Farmer are three times better than tolliver despite the position difference. Whatever you do WE NEED TO KEEP FARMER. He is by FAR the best prospect out of the 3. He shows potential to be a star the other have potential to be OK players its a no brainer! If your looking for the best two keep Farmer and Malik , if by position Farmer and Tolliver but again Farmer is the most talented by far and i think is far better than roger mason and finley.

REAL TALK

[Mavs<Spurs]

I voted Tolliver after reading the posts here. Farmer has more offense right now. Hairston is young and has upside. Not sure if Tolliver is really that great a three point shooter since his recent numbers apparently aren't very good. Yet the main thing he supposedly would bring to table is to be a 4 who can spread the floor for Tim Duncan by hitting the 3.

[Obstructed_View]

yea you probably could. but that would be a lot harder to argue than saying tolliver could stretch the floor with his shooting like farmer can.

Farmer hits his shots, Tolliver doesn't. Farmer's a proven scorer, Tolliver hit a bunch of threes in summer league. That's the point I was trying to make.

Just for fun, has anyone done plus/minus numbers on Bonner or Vaughn? I keep hearing about how they should be dumped in favor of one of the young guys. Let's see some evidence. :)

[angelbelow]

Farmer hits his shots, Tolliver doesn't. Farmer's a proven scorer, Tolliver hit a bunch of threes in summer league. That's the point I was trying to make.

Just for fun, has anyone done plus/minus numbers on Bonner or Vaughn? I keep hearing about how they should be dumped in favor of one of the young guys. Let's see some evidence. :)

well not that im in love with tolliver but for the sake of the discussion...

tolliver does have a nice form and a nice arc. i think he just needs the confidence the farmer seemingly has.

[Obstructed_View]

well not that im in love with tolliver but for the sake of the discussion...

tolliver does have a nice form and a nice arc. i think he just needs the confidence the farmer seemingly has.

I agree. He looked amazing in SL. Here's the problem: When Hill was missing shots, you knew he was a scorer from college so you figured he'd probably be okay. You have Farmer's scoring history to look back on. With Tolliver, you don't know if SL was just a fluke or if his shooting in preseason is just a slump. I don't know his history, but I do remember how shocked everyone was that he was taking all those shots, let alone knocking them down.

Again, it's not going to crush me if he gets the nod over Farmer, but I think the dilemma the Spurs face is in not knowing. I feel like Pop's still grieving for Horry and Tolliver is his rebound infatuation. I hope that doesn't cloud his judgment.

[Ice009]

I agree. He looked amazing in SL. Here's the problem: When Hill was missing shots, you knew he was a scorer from college so you figured he'd probably be okay. You have Farmer's scoring history to look back on. With Tolliver, you don't know if SL was just a fluke or if his shooting in preseason is just a slump. I don't know his history, but I do remember how shocked everyone was that he was taking all those shots, let alone knocking them down.

Again, it's not going to crush me if he gets the nod over Farmer, but I think the dilemma the Spurs face is in not knowing. I feel like Pop's still grieving for Horry and Tolliver is his rebound infatuation. I hope that doesn't cloud his judgment.

That's the whole point. TiMVP said that Tolliver wasn't a great shooter in college or anywhere really until about a year ago overseas. So he's really only been shooting great for just over a year. I do not think that is a good thing. I don't know if I trust him. If i want three point shooting I take Farmer with out question over Tolliver.

He hasn't shot well enough long enough to have confidence in his shot, especially in pressure situations. You need that confidence in your shot if you're going to make it in those situations.

[Manufan909]

If Bonner only liked somewhat intelligent out there then Tolliver wouldn't have been given the time of day, but then Gist would've made this much harder. FUCKING BONNER!!!

[Obstructed_View]

Wow...22 people actually voted for Hairston to be cut.:wtf

My only guess is that it's mainly people who decided they didn't like him on draft night. If you'd put Hill on that poll there'd damn sure be several people that would vote to have him cut.

[angelbelow]

I agree. He looked amazing in SL. Here's the problem: When Hill was missing shots, you knew he was a scorer from college so you figured he'd probably be okay. You have Farmer's scoring history to look back on. With Tolliver, you don't know if SL was just a fluke or if his shooting in preseason is just a slump. I don't know his history, but I do remember how shocked everyone was that he was taking all those shots, let alone knocking them down.

Again, it's not going to crush me if he gets the nod over Farmer, but I think the dilemma the Spurs face is in not knowing. I feel like Pop's still grieving for Horry and Tolliver is his rebound infatuation. I hope that doesn't cloud his judgment.

from the way pop has been talking about tolliver... i think it may already have =(

[AFBlue]

Cut Farmer until they find a suitor to take on Bonner's contract.

[manufor3]

Wow...22 people actually voted for Hairston to be cut.:wtf

26

[Obstructed_View]

Okay, it's going to crush me if Tolliver gets the nod over Farmer.

[benefactor]

http://omaha.com/index.php?u_page=1200&u_sid=10469836


Her death came on the same day that Tolliver, a former Creighton star, officially learned that he made the San Antonio Spurs' roster.
Tolliver made the team. Its funny how these guys know and MySA doesn't. Monroe and McDonald owned yet again.