Editorial: This states why I believe funding colleges and universites is smart.

[MannyIsGod]

To close that gap, the TACC has requested an additional $318.9 million for community colleges for the next biennium, which it says would have the state fund 62.2 percent of college operations. That amount would include more than $3.4 million for Angelina College.

The TACC estimates that the state's 50 community colleges have a total annual economic impact worth $13.5 billion, including $11.6 billion in wages and salaries earned by former students. A myriad of worthy, important programs are competing before the Legislature for state dollars. But like for students and local taxpayers, few are as good a deal for the state as its community colleges.


http://www.lufkindailynews.com/opin/content/news/opinion/stories/2005/02/16/20050216LDNeddy.html;COXnetJSessionID=CS2dci6xnEJ2 OVkwTuGTXRzNEVrw94zIg61wT1dn1MRczCLOc0bg!-400349811?urac=n&urvf=11085391010610.6419122765287003
You do the math.

[Clandestino]

well, the dumbasses in san antonio voted down funding for the area community colleges...

[GoldToe]

Perhaps it was because the dumbasses who run the ACCD didn't listen to the people.

[travis2]

Maybe "the people" were misled by those who thought more of the politics of the situation rather than the realities.

[GoldToe]

Perhaps the reality is that the location of the medical school belongs in the inner city and the ACCD leaders are the ones misled by political reasons.

[travis2]

The reality is that Brady Green is completely unsuitable.

[Clandestino]

the accd bill not only was to build 2 schools, but also renovate all the existing schools... now they don't get renovated

[GoldToe]

From what I've read most voters supported improving the ACCD but not the location of med.school.
Do another bond for improvements only and I bet it'd pass.

[Sec24Row7]

Most people that are going to community college and can't pass just need to get a damned job and forget about it.

I have seen some of the tests.

I think becoming a sandwich artist at Subway is harder.

[GoldToe]

Community College is a great way for many to start their college education and many go on to UTSA or another school.
I know a few students who work at Subway to make ends meet while attending college...and lose weight in the process.

[xrayzebra]

Perhaps the reality is that the location of the medical school belongs in the inner city and the ACCD leaders are the ones misled by political reasons.

May I be so bold as to ask "why" the Medical School belongs in the inner city? Bull Shit!
You want an education go get it. It shouldn't be brought to you. I am tired
of the "inner city" "minorities" and whatever other type "PC" junk stuff. No
one owes anyone, anything, anyway.

[Clandestino]

May I be so bold as to ask "why" the Medical School belongs in the inner city? Bull Shit!
You want an education go get it. It shouldn't be brought to you. I am tired
of the "inner city" "minorities" and whatever other type "PC" junk stuff. No
one owes anyone, anything, anyway.

we had a big argument in another thread on this subject a few weeks ago... a few minority big wigs complain to make a name for themselves and they really only screw their constituents...

[JoeChalupa]

I see both sides of the argument.
There were a few ACCD big wigs who wanted it their way and I guess they assumed it would pass and got a rude awakening.
But I am upset that the funding for the building of a ACCD site out near where I live wasn't passed but I can live with that.
People who don't live in the downtown area where SAC and St. Phillip's are may simple not understand why the want the school down there just as those downtown probably don't get why the school should be located way up on the NE side.
I think it is human nature to want things near you and some don't like their cheese moved at all.
But I think a compromise can be reached and should have been reached before the bond was put for vote.
Did the ACCD leaders really think they had the support?

[JoeChalupa]

we had a big argument in another thread on this subject a few weeks ago... a few minority big wigs complain to make a name for themselves and they really only screw their constituents...

And if their constituents voted it down..then didn't they represent their constituents wishes?

Just throwing some thoughts out there.

[Clandestino]

And if their constituents voted it down..then didn't they represent their constituents wishes?

Just throwing some thoughts out there.

i was saying they were against the accd bond proposal to make them look like they are helping the minorities..but in reality the are only hurting the minorities by renovating the schools they frequent more(sac, st philips, etc)....

[MannyIsGod]

If the ACCD leadership is serious about passinga bond, then can fix this one and get it onboard by May.

The people reached a breaking point. You guys can criticize that all you like, but the people have a voice and have used it.

I doubt everyone that has come into this thread knocking them who was eligble to vote did so.

[Clandestino]

If the ACCD leadership is serious about passinga bond, then can fix this one and get it onboard by May.

The people reached a breaking point. You guys can criticize that all you like, but the people have a voice and have used it.

I doubt everyone that has come into this thread knocking them who was eligble to vote did so.

only 20,000 said no... too bad no one else in san antonio felt they could be bothered with this to vote... so, basically those 20,000 said, "no, don't fix our school." the rest of san antonio showed they could care less about it too...

[MannyIsGod]

No, those 20,000 said we don't want the campus in the medical center. Why can't you understand that?

It was a breaking point. They had no problem with the rest of the bond, it was a problem with a location of where over a fifth of the money in the bond was going to go.

I've stated before that the ACCD has yet to release THREE studies that suggested a downtown location for that campus. Sure, they released the 2 that backed up their choice, but not the other 3?

If they try to do this again, expect a battle in court over those reports.

Why don't you direct some of your anger at the ACCD board instead of the people who actually excercised their right to vote? They had a voice, and they chose to speak out with that voice. Had the ACCD board paid attention to them sooner, they could have presented a bond that would have passed.

And I've stated time and time again, if the ACCD wanted the bond to pass, they'd get it on the ballot for May with the issue corrected.

[JoeChalupa]

From what I've read and heard the majority of the voters DO want the fund the ACCD improvements but didn't want the med.school located in the medical center.
Politicians do this kind of thing all the time.
Propose a bill that is 75% agreeable to most and then throw something in there and hope that the people will vote to accept the whole package.

Well maybe that was the ACCD staff's thinking? Maybe they thought that if they had enough support for the improvements then they would over look the location of the new school. It just didn't work out that way.

[Clandestino]

regardless this is only 20,000 people who voted against... that is only .018% of the population of san antonio...

[MannyIsGod]

The population is an irrelevant figure. What you want is registered voters. And that is about 1.5 percetn of registered voters.

You won't hear a louder voice in here than mine saying that more people need to get out and vote. I said it when I was unhappy with election results in November, and I said it when I was happy with the results of the last election.

The fact remains that you havent' said one thing about the ACCD leadership and their efforts to supress information pertinent to the dicussion over this initiative. The people that cared enough went to vote, and they had their voice heard.

[Clandestino]

the accd leadership is probably just like the last group.. all crooks...

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, so I can now see why you think the people should simply listen to them hands down.

[Clandestino]

Yeah, so I can now see why you think the people should simply listen to them hands down.

to me, building a nursing school near the medical center makes sense.... building it in a poor, crime neighborhood doesn't make sense at all...

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Both sides make great points in this thread (I voted yes for the bond).

Manny, while I said that the voters spoke their voices, I don't believe all 20K came out simply against the location.

Clan, what remains to be seen is if those who are against placement of the new school downtown make THEIR voices heard if they are that against it.

I'm not going to lie, though. If the ACCD brought the exact same package to the ballot, save for the downtown location instead of the Medical Center, I'd still vote yes.

My main concern with this past election was getting those other schools the funding they needed, because I got out of NVC right before the rush started and I can only imagine the crap they must be going through with the skyrocketing enrollment.

I'm a firm believer in higher education for those that want it/earn it. Professors are teaching classes that are entirely too large, classrooms don't have the equipment they need and students aren't getting the best teaching possible because of it.

When I was at NVC, I had a number of professors who actually TAUGHT me. Professors who challenged me and made me think for myself. I don't have as many of those at Texas State.

I'm taking a "Sports As News" class. You want to know what we did in Monday's class. We watched the "ESPN 25 - SportsCenter commercials" DVD. That's it.

Then the professor has the nerve to go to my faculty advisor at the paper and say that me and another person in the class are "whispering in the back and probably badmouthing his class". We were actually talking about our favorite ESPN commercials and a point/counterpoint column we were writing for later in the week.

Back to my point about NVC. I had one professor (for government and criminal justice) at NVC that was a former SA City Councilman. Hey, what do you know, somebody that actually KNOWS what they're talking about. I still contend that he is one of the greatest instructors I have ever known.

Quite frankly, the ACCD needs help. They need responsible money management and they need to cater responsibly to the needs and wants of their students. I'm still in agreement that the Medical Center is the best area for a medical campus, but the greater need is in the bond.

[JohnnyMarzetti]

I'd vote YES for the funding as well. We need a ACCD location out in the NE area.

But to try to screw the inner city people was just wrong. :cuss

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

Screwing them would be saying that there would be no school built and the program ended to save money.

Those that really want education can go seek it.

[JoeChalupa]

to me, building a nursing school near the medical center makes sense.... building it in a poor, crime neighborhood doesn't make sense at all...

Well, calling it a poor, crime neighborhood doesn't make much sense either.
There is crime on the Northside as well.

Also the ACCD said that personnel from the Medical Center complex are needed to teach courses in the health program, and if they can't make the short commute to campus, their services will not be available.
But it seems to me that that many highly qualified health science professionals already work and teach within about 5 miles of downtown.

Such as: UTSA Downtown campus, SAC and St. Phillip's medical facilites, NIX Hospital, Santa Rosa Hospital, Baptist Downtown Hospital, Metropolitan Methodist Hospital, Brooke Army Medical Center, Brady Green Clinic, Academy of Health Sciences and the U.S. Army medical school at Fort Sam Houston.

But I do want a new NE Campus on 1604.

[Useruser666]

I still think the campus should be built in the medical center. I also believe more facilities should be built in the NE side of town.

[JoeChalupa]

But can I get a "I hear ya" about medical professionals already being available in the downtown area?

[Useruser666]

Of course there are. But can I get a "I hear ya" about where the center of the medical community is?

[MannyIsGod]

Of course there are. But can I get a "I hear ya" about where the center of the medical community is?

Depends on what part of the medical community you're talking about.

The service kind (nurses, medical assistants, etc) are the kind that are taught at those campuses.

3 studies, more than the ACCD has against it, say it makes more senst to put it downtown.

[MannyIsGod]

I've posted this before Chris





But opponents pointed out that UTHSC conducts a lot of its pediatric clinical training, family practice research and training, and geriatric in-patient admission and teaching in inner-city downtown locations, very close to where the Texas Diabetic Institute is located.

"I wasn't against the bond and its components, they were great things," says pulmonologist Carlos Orozco, who unwittingly became a leader of the opposition. "But they were forcing the (nursing) campus to be built on the North Side after (UTHSC) moved pediatrics (training) to Santa Rosa, geriatrics to the Nix and family practice to the Brady Green because that is where the clinical experience is. And the Texas Diabetic Institute, one of the most renowned places for this research, is on the West Side; it's where people are learning from patients about cardiology, nephrology, podiatry and you name it."

------------------------------------

"We're talking about students (studying to become) licensed vocational nurses," Orozco says. "If they needed to study the molecule of a certain disease or a certain gene sequence, then you would send them to the medical school. But if they're going to take care of patients, you put them where they will get the clinical experience."


http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/columnists/cguerra/stories/MYSA020805.01B.guerra.873e320d.html[QUOTE]

[MannyIsGod]

And some more....

http://www.sacurrent.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13924514&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=482778&rfi=6


University Health System board chairman Robert Jimenez chided ACCD board members for not communicating with the county's top publicly funded hospital district when it decided to push the Medical Center site for a health campus. "Real estate gambling is driving the health campus location at the Medical Center. Downtown has the largest array of health services in Bexar County, and it provides the easiest access to students in Bexar County. That campus (proposed for the Medical Center) is going to die. It is a horrible investment."

[MannyIsGod]

I don't know if you guys think I just oppose shit for the hell of it, or if I toss around my support on a whim...but I research a shitload of things before deciding how I vote.

I can honestly say that the only person in here who I know has an opposing view point and took the time to read a few things about this election was Travis. JB voted for it, and for reasons that I can understand as well.

[Guru of Nothing]

A 200 mph bullet train network inside 1604 would solve everything.

Back me up Buddy.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

I don't know if you guys think I just oppose shit for the hell of it, or if I toss around my support on a whim...but I research a shitload of things before deciding how I vote.

I can honestly say that the only person in here who I know has an opposing view point and took the time to read a few things about this election was Travis. JB voted for it, and for reasons that I can understand as well.

Uh, I read too, damnit.

[MannyIsGod]

I included you, stupid. Kinda. My bad, I meant to include you too. And Jane too, I think. Whatever. I'm just a Manny.

[Guru of Nothing]

Uh, I read too, damnit.

That's funny. My sides are aching.

[MannyIsGod]

I missed this article from last Sunday, but it has plenty of great points

Lynnell Burkett: While ACCD board stews, No. 2 site remains option
http://www.mysanantonio.com/columnists/stories/MYSA021305.1H.ACCDburkett.95cdc084.html




A planning committee with representatives of the district and its four colleges recommended a downtown location, although not a specific site, last summer.

---------------

The ACCD leadership touted two studies hastily prepared in December after the location issue began causing a ruckus.

One was, so far as I can tell, only a PowerPoint presentation prepared by Dennis Martinez (better known as the husband of former City Manager Terry Brechtel), which gave a top rating to the medical center.




Those are only selected excerts of the colum I'm using to make a point, but the gist of the colum is about the same. Either way, there's a link, read away.

[Johnny_Blaze_47]

http://www.grandstandsports.com/images/7847.jpg

Obligatory.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao !!!!

[Useruser666]

Whatever Manny. I guess I don't read. Since you do everyone else's opinions on the matter are obviously wrong. I don't believe we need another ACCD campus near downtown.

Just because you have the right to vote doesn't mean it's wrong not to vote. You need to try and understand that.

[3rdCoast]

no one wants to go downtown for a class at sac or st phillips, its a shithole. the ones who didnt want the shit in the medical center are people who bitch about having to take a via when they just wanna ride their bike or hitch a ride with jose on the way to the construction site. fucking drive, walk, get on a bus, but who really wants to go to school in a shitty location.

[MannyIsGod]

Chris, you didn't even know you had the right to vote in this election. Don't try and turn it into some sort of protest vote now. And trying to say what the voters did was wrong, while having not voted, is pretty damn stupid. I love how you've gone from "I couldn't vote" to "not voting isn't wrong". Uh huh.

Chris You can have your opinion any way you want it(not that it matters if you don't vote). But you won't even acknowledge that the medical center wasn't this slam dunk decision that everyone keeps making it out to be.

to paraphrase the shock..."My god, how could we have not put it in the medical center"

I've given LOTS Of valid reasons to suggest there were better, cheaper, and more accessible palces downtown.

What reasons have you given?

Sure man, try and tell me you researched this election beforehand. I'm sure thats why you weren't aware you could vote.

[Clandestino]

no one wants to go downtown for a class at sac or st phillips, its a shithole. the ones who didnt want the shit in the medical center are people who bitch about having to take a via when they just wanna ride their bike or hitch a ride with jose on the way to the construction site. fucking drive, walk, get on a bus, but who really wants to go to school in a shitty location.

that is pretty much it in a nutshell... no one wants to go to a school in a shitty location... esp the st philips area..

[Useruser666]

Chris, you didn't even know you had the right to vote in this election. Don't try and turn it into some sort of protest vote now. And trying to say what the voters did was wrong, while having not voted, is pretty damn stupid. I love how you've gone from "I couldn't vote" to "not voting isn't wrong". Uh huh.

Chris You can have your opinion any way you want it(not that it matters if you don't vote). But you won't even acknowledge that the medical center wasn't this slam dunk decision that everyone keeps making it out to be.

to paraphrase the shock..."My god, how could we have not put it in the medical center"

I've given LOTS Of valid reasons to suggest there were better, cheaper, and more accessible palces downtown.

What reasons have you given?

Sure man, try and tell me you researched this election beforehand. I'm sure thats why you weren't aware you could vote.


Manny, shut the fuck up! You are full of shit! People don't have to vote if they don't want to. Some don't care about voting. That is as much their right as it is yours to bitch about anything and everything. You still don't know where I live, so you don't know if I was even eligible to vote. So STFU about that already. If you want to reach people you might want to start by stepping down of your podium and stop taking a holier than thou attitude on everything.

I will limit myself to one single reason why they should not build another campus downtown. There are already several in central SA. I want one on the NE side of town. One that is close to where I live. I took many classes at SAC. It sucks driving that far. I think it is unfair that most of the campuses are already centrally located. I think it would make sense to place a new campus where the majority of new growth in SA is taking place (NW).

[3rdCoast]

I agree, but mario and hector dont wanna have to get on a via to go to a new campus, they want it built right in their back yard off south flores and shyt.


who wants to drive from a nice area of living to a shithole to go to school? not me.

[MannyIsGod]

You mean like NORTHWEST VISTA.

There's SAC downtown. There's PAC on the southside. NWV on the NW side. St. Philips on the East.

I see ONE centraly located school, from which they were going to take classes AWAY form, and move to the medical center, when it makes very little sense, and is a more costly option.

Also, this bond has money to put a school on the NORTH EAST side. In fact, the existing school who was going to get the most out of this bond, was by far NORTHWEST Vista.

Chris, I'm not trying to reach you. I'm trying to proove a point. I've given up on this forum being a medium to "reach" people. Hardly anyone in here will concede when something is written in stone. I've done a shitload of canvasing, and I know how to speak to people when I'm trying to bring them over to my side. You're just pissed off because everytime you say something that you simply pull out of your ass, I shoot it down. (See above on wanting a Norwest located college)

Oh and, proove me wrong about the voting issue. Just say you live outside of Bexar county.

I acknowledged people can not vote if they want to, and yes it is a right. But when they choose to then bitch about the outcome of an election they choose not to participate in, it's pretty ridiculous.

Anyhow, I'll go back to being full of shit now.

[3rdCoast]

son, NW VISTA is FUCKING MINIATURE. I THINK HE IS TALKIN ABOUT ADDING OR GREATLY EXPANDING THAT SHIT, FOR CHRISTS SAKE SON, THE NEW NISD HIGH SCHOOLS ARE BIGGER THAN NW VISTA!

[MannyIsGod]

And the bond was going to do that. Thats another reason they shouldn't have fucked with the nursing school.

[MannyIsGod]

Actually, the best thing to do in these situations is to seperate the bond into differen't issues. School districts already do this.

But that wouldn't allow board members tack shit like the relocation of the nursing school onto programs that are needed and have merit.

[3rdCoast]

im all for bonds passing. i was pissed when neisd shot down the bond for a new athletic complex a few years back too. :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss :pctoss

[Useruser666]

You mean like NORTHWEST VISTA.

There's SAC downtown. There's PAC on the southside. NWV on the NW side. St. Philips on the East.

I see ONE centraly located school, from which they were going to take classes AWAY form, and move to the medical center, when it makes very little sense, and is a more costly option.

Also, this bond has money to put a school on the NORTH EAST side. In fact, the existing school who was going to get the most out of this bond, was by far NORTHWEST Vista.

Chris, I'm not trying to reach you. I'm trying to proove a point. I've given up on this forum being a medium to "reach" people. Hardly anyone in here will concede when something is written in stone. I've done a shitload of canvasing, and I know how to speak to people when I'm trying to bring them over to my side. You're just pissed off because everytime you say something that you simply pull out of your ass, I shoot it down. (See above on wanting a Norwest located college)

Oh and, proove me wrong about the voting issue. Just say you live outside of Bexar county.

I acknowledged people can not vote if they want to, and yes it is a right. But when they choose to then bitch about the outcome of an election they choose not to participate in, it's pretty ridiculous.

Anyhow, I'll go back to being full of shit now.

I was not bitching about the outcome of the election. And besides NWV being a tiny campus, the NE side campus could fit in the frozen section of an HEB. With the huge growth of the NW side, that should be the area to look at building more schools.

[Shelly]

Well....my neighbor (who lives on the far NW side) goes to St. Phillips and has had to clinicals on the far southside, so it goes both ways.

[Duff McCartney]

Just because you have the right to vote doesn't mean it's wrong not to vote.

God damn....I said the same thing on November 2nd...and everybody shit on me.

[Duff McCartney]

In fact, the existing school who was going to get the most out of this bond, was by far NORTHWEST Vista.

They needed most of the money from the bond, to get stuff and expand the campus. It wasn't like they were gonna waste it on garbage.

[MannyIsGod]

No, I think Northwest Vista needs more money than the other campus', I was pointing that out because of Chris' post.

SAC and St Phillips' portion was going towards the new nursing school.

[Useruser666]

Good.

[Duff McCartney]

No, I think Northwest Vista needs more money than the other campus', I was pointing that out because of Chris' post.

SAC and St Phillips' portion was going towards the new nursing school.

Oh okay I thought you were saying it in a bad way.