Ill. Gov. arrested in Obama successor probe

[ChumpDumper]

It's irrational to believe Obama is potentially involved in some illegality...?What illegality?

[Yonivore]

That's not true. There are plenty of liberals on this board and elsewhere who don't believe everything that's "said bad about him". Case in point: The Carlyle Group. People love to smear Bush with contacts like said Carlyle Group or the Bin Ladens; and using those contacts they try to make the case that Iraq and 9/11 were conspiratorially organized by Bush & Co in a joint venture with the Saudi's and Bin Ladens. And equally true, as you well know, there are plenty of liberals who don't buy into said conspiracies.
Carlyle group and the bin Laden crap is whacka-do nonsense...on par with Mena and Vince Foster.

We're not talking conspiracies, we're talking real people with whom Obama spent a considerable amount of time and are now being brought to justice for crimes committed during the time Obama was spending said time with them and for crimes that would -- by the nature of their association with Obama -- lead one to reasonably believe Obama was aware of their crimes.

It's not like Rezko and Blogojevich were Obama's minister and next door neighbor -- they were political associates committing political crimes.

It's reasonable to conclude Obama knew they were crooks.


Now, regarding Bush's conduct in office, I believe a lot, because I witnessed it. Bush's scandals weren't related to all the shady people who surround him and his family (far more than Obama) but rather, the criminal and negligent conduct of his administration, as pertaining to matters officially within the nation and public's interest. Katrina, Walter Reed, Libby/Plame, NSA wiretapping. Cheney's Energy Task Force, suppression of federal scientific reporting, Abu Ghraib, Halliburton, expansion of the executive branch, Iraq intelligence and Cheney running amok with the CIA, efforts to prevent the 9/11 commission, etc, etc, etc, and on and on and on. None of that has to do with Bush's political connections- it all has to do with shady, manipulative scumbaggery and crime. It's substantive- something these random and vague allegations about Obama are anything but.
Not one crime in the list. You mention a bunch of stuff over which reasonable people disagree and over which zealots, such as you, refuse to se the other side; but, for which this administration has never been accused by a court of competent jurisdiction of violating a law.

Katrina: At worst, federal mismanagement...but, Democrat Louisiana politicians can claim alot of the blame for the catastrophe that occurred after Katrina as well as the diversion of COE funds that were intended to upgrade the levees before the storm.

Abu Ghraib: Wrongdoers tried and convicted...General, in charge, relieved of command.

Halliburton: What crime? What scandal orchestrated by the administration?

Expansion of Executive Branch: What crime? What scandal?

Iraq intelligence: What crime?

Cheney running amok with CIA: What crime?

Efforts to prevent the 911 Commission: What crime?

Seriously, what laws were broken? You disagree with how this administration approached certain circumstance and, certainly, this administration failed to respond properly to some events but, what crimes were committed in any of the things you listed...not to mention all the etc's... you threw in.

[Wild Cobra]

That's not true. There are plenty of liberals on this board and elsewhere who don't believe everything that's "said bad about him". Case in point: The Carlyle Group. People love to smear Bush with contacts like said Carlyle Group or the Bin Ladens; and using those contacts they try to make the case that Iraq and 9/11 were conspiratorially organized by Bush & Co in a joint venture with the Saudi's and Bin Ladens. And equally true, as you well know, there are plenty of liberals who don't buy into said conspiracies.

Only because after the allegations, it was proven that more democrats have involvement with these people.



Now, regarding Bush's conduct in office, I believe a lot, because I witnessed it. Bush's scandals weren't related to all the shady people who surround him and his family (far more than Obama) but rather, the criminal and negligent conduct of his administration, as pertaining to matters officially within the nation and public's interest.
Propaganda you mean?


Katrina,
Mostly a locally cause problem, and bugs were not worked with the restructuring. Why didn't Mississippi have the same problems?


Walter Reed,
One locations with problems. Not caused by our president. Not how the standard care was. Most of Walter Reed does a very fine job.


Libby/Plame,
Yep, a division of the CIA running amok and caught. The real leak never prosecuted. Because he was a liberal in the SOS office.


NSA wiretapping.
Nothing wrong here. Every president did such things, they simply included more modern communications in the process.


Cheney's Energy Task Force,
I don't recall that one. New thread please, or old one?


suppression of federal scientific reporting,
This too. What are you blabbering about.


Abu Ghraib,
You're joking. You blame the antics of a few soldiers on him? Please... Lay off the Kool-Aid.


Halliburton,
On contract since the Clinton administration.


expansion of the executive branch,
I'll agree here. That is never good.


Iraq intelligence and Cheney running amok with the CIA,


efforts to prevent the 9/11 commission,
Again, you joking?


etc, etc, etc, and on and on and on. None of that has to do with Bush's political connections- it all has to do with shady, manipulative scumbaggery and crime. It's substantive- something these random and vague allegations about Obama are anything but.

I guess you are one who believe every politician micromanages, and has his hands in everything below him. Good leaders know that is a poor way to be an executive.

Now I task you to take this same line of reasoning you have for bad things that occur, and apply them equally to president Obama during his term(s) in office. Blame him for all that occurs on his watch equally.

[Yonivore]

I must have skipped the line about Plame, Cheney energy, yadda yadda...but, you picked it up so, I won't repeat.

No one in this administration has been tried for a crime that would lead an objective person to believe this President was culpable in a crime of any kind. The closest you get is Libby and he was convicted of lying for who knows what reason...after all, the actual leaker was -- as WC said -- in the State Department.

[RobinsontoDuncan]

How much indignation did Yoni have with the whole scooter libby/valerie plame controversy again?

He must have been very upset based on his denunciation of Obama on far shakier and more abstract ground in this Blago controversy.

[balli]

Now I task you to take this same line of reasoning you have for bad things that occur, and apply them equally to president Obama during his term(s) in office. Blame him for all that occurs on his watch equally.

Seriously, I will, but since Obama isn't empowering bloodsucking neo-con scum like Cheney and /or as Bill Maher has humorously said, assigning "ex dildo salesman college-roommates" to important bureaucratic posts, I don't think we'll have to worry about such grossly negligent and manipulative, if not entirely criminally scandalous, conduct.

[Yonivore]

Seriously, I will, but since Obama isn't empowering bloodsucking neo-con scum like Cheney and /or as Bill Maher has humorously said, assigning "ex dildo salesman college-roommates" to important bureaucratic posts, I don't think we'll have to worry about such grossly negligent and manipulative, if not entirely criminally scandalous, conduct.
Well, my disagreement with your (and Maher's) characterization of Vice President Cheney aside, I'd say Hillary Clinton fits the bloodsucking scum description rather nicely. Not only that, she's unqualified. What diplomatic experience does she have?

[balli]

Well, my disagreement with your (and Maher's) characterization of Vice President Cheney aside, I'd say Hillary Clinton fits the bloodsucking scum description rather nicely. Not only that, she's unqualified. What diplomatic experience does she have?

You really needed to read that Open Letter to Conservatives that jochhejaam posted the other day. Really.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2950085&postcount=16

Pertaining to Hillary:


As for the Hillary thing, get real. Obama was elected in large part by a leftist crusade for hope and "change." Now, as president-elect, he has just formed the most conservative Democratic foreign policy team since John F. Kennedy, one well to the right of Bill Clinton. Where is your gratitude for that? What is more relevant in his Hillary Clinton pick: her prickly past or the fact that, except for Joe Lieberman, she is the Democrat most identified with support for the Iraq War?

Perhaps I should repeat that. Hillary Clinton is the Democrat MOST IDENTIFIED WITH REMOVING SADDAM HUSSEIN BY FORCE. She lost a presidency over it. So, whatever low opinion you may have about Hillary, on foreign policy she is the very best choice for that position that conservatives could expect to get. Even better, because the ONLY issue that really divided Hillary and Obama was the Iraq War. This is President Obama's way of saying, "Okay, now that I'm in office, I'm going to put my anti-war commitments aside and put the defense of the country first. And in case you didn't get that, I'm going to keep George Bush's Secretary of Defense in place, and I'm going to appoint a conservative Marine general as my National Security Advisor."

Maybe some conservatives out there have forgotten, but Clinton's Secretary of Defense, Les Aspin, was an anti-Vietnam activist. So were his two National Security Advisers, Tony Lake and Sandy Berger. In fact, they met Clinton in the anti-war movement. Conservatives should be cheering right now, not chasing red herrings.

So yeah, keep bitching Yoni, because it really just makes me want to say fuck you. And I like saying "fuck you" to people. Ya ungrateful asshole.

[Yonivore]

You really needed to read that Open Letter to Conservatives that jochhejaam posted the other day. Really.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2950085&postcount=16

Pertaining to Hillary:
Again, her diplomatic credentials? And, that she knew Saddam Hussein for what he was doesn't change the fact she's a bloodsucking scum.

[Yonivore]

I watched the Jesse Jackson interview and I think this is a bit odd:


"Politics is a contact sport. Only those on the sidelines have clean uniforms,"
I wonder if when Jackson said, "It Wasn't Me," he was thinking of this song by Shaggy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR4PGt9oOto

[Yonivore]

From the Lindgren timeline at Volokh, and as revealed in the complaint and press reports:


1. On the weekend of Nov. 8-9, Obama lets it be known that his choice for Senate is Valerie Jarrett. Aides tell WLS-TV in Chicago and CNN, which announces Obama’s choice (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/09/source-obama-wants-valerie-jarrett-to-replace-him-in-senate/) on Sunday. Nov. 9.

2. On Monday, Nov. 10, Blagojevich holds an incredible 2-hour conference call with multiple consultants: “ROD BLAGOJEVICH, his wife, JOHN HARRIS, Governor General Counsel, and various Washington-D.C. based advisors, including Advisor B,” discussing his corrupt schemes. He follows this with two calls with Advisor A.

3. That very night, Monday, Nov. 10, at 7:56pm, CNN reported (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/11/10/sources-jarrett-headed-to-white-house-not-senate/#more-30061):


Two Democratic sources close to President-elect Barack Obama tell CNN that top adviser Valerie Jarrett will not be appointed to replace him in the U.S. Senate.

"While he (Obama) thinks she would be a good senator, he wants her in the White House," one top Obama advisor told CNN Monday.

Over the weekend, Democratic sources had told CNN as well as Chicago television station WLS-TV that Jarrett was Obama's choice to fill his Senate seat.
So what happened? The likeliest scenario is that one of the many participants in Blagojevich’s Monday phone calls either floated his plans to the Obama transition team to assess their response or tipped off the Obama camp about the reckless ideas that Blagojevich had planned.

In any event, within hours of Blagojevich substantially expanding his circle of confidants, the Obama camp withdrew Jarrett’s name from consideration and attributed that withdrawal to the President's wanting Jarrett in the White House. And the Obama staffers went out of their way to depict this as Obama's choice, rather than Jarrett's, which would have been more common. The report claims Obama's involvement in the decision and suggests a direct effort to undercut the idea that Obama was pressuring Blagojevich to appoint Jarrett.
Seriously, is it unreasonable to believe that Obama rescinded the Jarrett endorsement because of information that came out of the 2 hour conference call Blogojevich held? And, if so, wouldn't that mean Obama (or his team) were aware of the "pay for play" efforts?

[Yonivore]

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

[Yonivore]

After Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, Tony Rezko, etc. a reporter finally sets down the Kool-Aid for a few minutes anyway.
John Kass of The Chicago Tribune comes clean:


"Obama is a creature of Chicago Politics. The machine runs Chicago... There seems to be a willful attempt by some outside Chicago to sort of not consider that Obama is a Chicago political guy."

Some, but not everyone...the article (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15885.html).

The video:
-zL82pqqsqY

No wonder Obama's good friend Rod Blagojevich wanted to clean house at the Chicago Tribune.

[ChumpDumper]

Seriously, is it unreasonable to believe that Obama rescinded the Jarrett endorsement because of information that came out of the 2 hour conference call Blogojevich held? And, if so, wouldn't that mean Obama (or his team) were aware of the "pay for play" efforts?Seriously, after two days, tell us what you, in fact, believe.

[Yonivore]

Earlier, the SpunkDumpster and doobs forwarded three possible scenarios on how the whole Blogojevich selling Obama’s Senate seat scandal went down.

Spunky proffered the idea that someone in Obama’s camp was in on the sting all along and, further, this someone advised Obama to hold off on negotiating with Blogojevich so the investigation could produce results without, in any way, involving Obama.

Well, this doesn’t make sense on a whole lot of levels; not the least of which is information in the complaint that indicates the president-elect had at least one advisor that was in contact with the Blogojevich camp after the wiretaps were established and, further, that the timeline compiled at Volokh clearly demonstrates a change in Obama’s strategy immediately after the two hour conference call on which it is believed his advisors were privy or, possibly, participants.

Doobs forwards two more scenarios both of which infer Obama’s camp knew of the illegality and failed to report it but, had no other part in the crime. The second of his scenarios is less believable than the first but, generally, they’re the same.

Let me offer two more:

#1: Obama promised candidate 1 he would lobby for her appointment but, in reality, had already (in Chicago-style politics) sold his allegiance to another candidate. Therefore, he has to sabotage the deal for getting #1 appointed and steer Blogojevich to his preferred candidate. Refusing to “pay for play” on Candidate #1 would certainly do that with an idiot like Blogojevich – we all know how much it pissed him off. After the 2 hour conference call, Obama calls Candidate #1 and says – “Gee, I’m sorry, it doesn’t look like I’m going to be able to get you in the seat; would you come work for me at the White House instead?” All along, Obama could have been working another deal on another candidate through other proxies who intentionally kept him insulated from any wrongdoing (I’m thinking of the portion of the complaint where the Advisor B said he preferred one arrangement over the other because the president-elect would have fewer fingerprints on it). This we may never know because Blogojevich got busted and everything evaporated…except the evidence already collected. And, it will take time to sift through that, connect the dots, and draw conclusions.

#2: Hillary Clinton is behind it all and is laughing her ass off; hoping that something happens before the 18th that will cause Obama to have to step down or so taint his image it gives her an opportunity to lobby the Electoral College to switch their votes (they’re not legally or constitutionally bound to vote for Obama on the 18th). I know, far-fetched but, it would explain the timing – after the election to get a Democratic president-elect but before the Electoral College could consummate the deal. I question the timing.

There you have it.

[Yonivore]

I just heard something else that struck me.

This is the first time in recent memory Democrats have not circled the wagons and supported a beleaguered fellow Democrat. From William “Cold Cash” Jefferson to Rangel to Harry Reid to Nancy Pelosi and on and on and on. Name a recent scandal in which Democrats have – within a day, as has happened here – called for the Democrat to resign.

Combine that with the Democrat’s rush to distance Obama from Blogojevich – his long association with the Governor all but being ignored – and Rahm Emmanuel’s sudden muteness; and, you have something fishy (no Pelosi reference intended) going on.

It’s obvious to most objective observers, Democrats want this to go away as quickly as possible and then, they want all digging into the matter to cease immediately. Thank you, please.

[ChumpDumper]

Earlier, the SpunkDumpster and doobs forwarded three possible scenarios on how the whole Blogojevich selling Obama’s Senate seat scandal went down.

Spunky proffered the idea that someone in Obama’s camp was in on the sting all along and, further, this someone advised Obama to hold off on negotiating with Blogojevich so the investigation could produce results without, in any way, involving Obama.There is no negotiating with Blagojevich. Sure you want there to be negotiating.


Well, this doesn’t make sense on a whole lot of levels; not the least of which is information in the complaint that indicates the president-elect had at least one advisor that was in contact with the Blogojevich camp after the wiretaps were established and, further, that the timeline compiled at Volokh clearly demonstrates a change in Obama’s strategy immediately after the two hour conference call on which it is believed his advisors were privy or, possibly, participants.Makes perfect sense if that is when the incriminating statements were recorded. Again, you have no common sense and are stupid, so no one expects you to come up with anything remotely plausible.



#1: Obama promised candidate 1 he would lobby for her appointment but, in reality, had already (in Chicago-style politics) sold his allegiance to another candidate.This premise is an immediate fail. Why would he need to care if he changed his mind? He's the fucking president-elect who just beat the living shit out of the Republicans. Everyone is sucking his dick now.


#2: Hillary ClintonRight, she would just kill everyone like she killed Obama to become president.


There you have it.Indeed.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

..........and Rahm Emmanuel’s sudden muteness;
very sudden muteness. i read that he's on the tapes. now i'm trying recall what obama said yesterday. "no one on my team has had any direct contact with blagojevich" or something to that affect. change is one the way, indeed.

also, i wonder where they have joe "stand up" biden locked up. letterman can start his new segment now. oh all of this is comedy. comedy, i say.

[ChumpDumper]

I just heard something else that struck me.

This is the first time in recent memory Democrats have not circled the wagons and supported a beleaguered fellow Democrat. From William “Cold Cash” Jefferson to Rangel to Harry Reid to Nancy Pelosi and on and on and on. Name a recent scandal in which Democrats have – within a day, as has happened here – called for the Democrat to resign.So?


Combine that with the Democrat’s rush to distance Obama from Blogojevich – his long association with the Governor all but being ignored – and Rahm Emmanuel’s sudden muteness; and, you have something fishy (no Pelosi reference intended) going on.Yeah. You have your confirmation bias. Were you not masturbating nonstop for the last two days at the thought of Obama's being involved, you would know that Blogajevich has been a pariah for the last couple of years and Obama and the other Democrats have been distancing themselves from him that entire time.


It’s obvious to most objective observers, Democrats want this to go away as quickly as possible and then, they want all digging into the matter to cease immediately. Thank you, please.:lmao at your using the word objective.

[ChumpDumper]

very sudden muteness. i read that he's on the tapes. now i'm trying recall what obama said yesterday. "no one on my team has had any direct contact with blagojevich" or something to that affect. change is one the way, indeed.Fox News said Emanuel was the one who blew the whistle.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Fox News said Emanuel was the one who blew the whistle.
:lol now it's fox news and not faux news. what a tool.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol now it's fox news and not faux news. what a tool.I never called it that. Are you saying they are unreliable in this instance?

[Anti.Hero]

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20081211/capt.b71774435e0a49e5b59742ad780e1d97.illinois_gov ernor_ilca102.jpg?x=313&y=345&q=85&sig=WlL2Rr5dFbGkkk1XCZDRow--

[Yonivore]

Video report. (http://www.myfoxchicago.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=15FE80D5DF88681C80B506FF4E0DE056 ?contentId=8054792&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1)

Some in here and on the left are spinning that Rahm Emanuel heroically calling Patrick Fitzgerald to blow the whistle on Blago's pay-for-play grasping.

If that's so, why is Emanuel hiding behind his kids to avoid answering questions?

Gag order requested by Fitzgerald? I don't think so. If that were the case, one would imagine that Fitzgerald would have given him the go-ahead to deliver a brief statement noting that he'd cooperated with the prosecutor but was now requested to remain silent about it, this being an active investigation and all.

Instead Emanuel is dodging questions like he has something to hide. If Emanuel were really the White Knight dime-dropper the earlier spin claimed he was, why would the prosecutor continue letting him twist in the wind looking all guilty 'n shit?

A middle possibility is that Team Obama ultimately decided to drop dime or at least refuse Blago's demands, but earlier explored the notion of playing ball... and if that's the case, it would explain why they don't want to answer any questions -- answering one leads to another, and another, until finally we get to the questions that make them look very bad.

The Tribune reports (http://hotair.com/archives/2008/12/12/tribune-fundraiser-for-blago-tied-to-jackson-effort/) that businessmen planned a big fundraiser for Blago late in the campaign.


As Gov. Rod Blagojevich was trying to pick Illinois’ next U.S. senator, businessmen with ties to both the governor and U.S. Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. discussed raising at least $1 million for Blagojevich’s campaign as a way to encourage him to pick Jackson for the job, the Tribune has learned.
...
Two businessmen who attended the meeting and spoke to the Tribune on the condition of anonymity said that Nayak and Blagojevich aide Rajinder Bedi privately told many of the more than two dozen attendees the fundraising effort was aimed at supporting Jackson’s bid for the Senate.
...
That meeting led to a Blagojevich fundraiser Saturday in Elmhurst, co-sponsored by Nayak and attended by Jesse Jackson Jr.’s brother, Jonathan, as well as Blagojevich, according to several people who were there. Nayak and Jonathan Jackson go back years and the two even went into business together years ago as part of a land purchase on the South Side.
The crime of conspiracy requires an agreement to participate in a crime plus an overt step in furtherance of that conspiracy -- just yapping about doing a crime isn't enough. But actually going through with the fundraiser corruptly agreed upon? Conspiracy.

Jesse Jackson, Jr.'s brother, Jonathan, attended. Are we to believe that none of this was worked out with JJJr? Or Jesse Jackson Sr. for that matter?

I'm a little baffled how it can be that this much is known about the Jackson Family's involvement in the conspiracy and yet not a one of them has apparently received a letter putting them on notice that they're targets of an investigation. Is Fitzgerald afraid of the political fall-out in going after the Jackson mob? Apparently so.

Why Is the AG Asking the Illinois Supreme Court to Strip Blago of His Powers? Impeachment is the job of the legislature, not the courts.

Is it a speed thing? I doubt it. An impeachment can happen quickly, if so desired.

To toss out a possibility -- the legislature would prefer having someone else do this on their behalf, because too many of them fear what secrets Blago might let leak about them in retaliation. If it's just the AG and the Supreme Court -- hey, Blago, you know we were really on your side all along... Please don't mention the thing with the guy at the place. You know what I'm talkin' about.

John Kass (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-kass-thurs-11-dec11,0,301469.column): Blago isn't crazy. He's just a standard machine politician. This is the Chicago Way. Obama's Chicago folks.

Kass notes that everyone from Daley to Obama is talking quietly about Blago because they don't want to piss him off -- and get him talking about their own corruption.

[Yonivore]

A Little Blago for Everyone (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MGQ5YjEwNjJkZDQ5MDRkZDVlNDI0ZTg0MjJiNDk0NDk=&w=MA==)

My favorite paragraph:


There’s the enormous I-should-have-had-a-V8! moment as the mainstream press collectively thwacks itself in the forehead, realizing it blew it again. The New York Times — which, according to Wall Street analysts, is weeks from holding editorial-board meetings in a refrigerator box — created the journalistic equivalent of CSI-Wasilla to study every follicle and fiber in Sarah Palin’s background, all the while treating Obama’s Chicago like one of those fairy-tale lands depicted in posters that adorn little girls’ bedroom walls. See there, Suzie? That’s a Pegasus. That’s a pink unicorn. And that’s a beautiful sunflower giving birth to a fully grown Barack Obama, the greatest president ever and the only man in history to be able to pick up manure from the clean end.
:lmao Indeed...

[Yonivore]

Well, you knew this was coming...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SUNFPhtQ2nI/AAAAAAAAXaQ/vpkwj6giI2E/s1600/senate%2Bseat.JPG

:lmao

[Yonivore]

Ooops! Rahm Emanuel, Blagojevich staff talked (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/12/rahm_emanuel_blagojevich_staff.html)

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[ChumpDumper]

The revelation does not suggest Obama's new gatekeeper was involved in any talk of dealmaking involving the seat.

Are you ever going to say what you think Obama's involvement is Yoni?

[ChumpDumper]

Then there's this:


Mr. Emanuel’s spokeswoman declined to comment on Saturday. Transition aides would not comment publicly, saying federal prosecutors have asked them not to speak about the matter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/14/us/politics/14emanuel.html

Why does Yoni hate America and its Bush-appointed prosecutors?

[Yonivore]

Now, it's being suggested Fitzgerald prematurely filed charges because Obama's camp was getting ready to commit a crime and he prevented it.

From what I'm hearing, many attorney's are claiming there's no case against Blagojevich because he didn't consummate a deal for the Obama's seat. No deal, no crime...it's not a crime to talk about committing a crime.

Anyway, that leaves the question of why Fitzgerald came out when he did and, further, why he's sinking his case by poisoning the well of potential jurors with his proclamations of guilt. Blagojevich is either acquitted outright or wins on appeal becaue of prosecutorial misconduct.

Obama is sure spending a lot of time crafting his "what contact did we have with Blagojevich" response....I understand he's delayed it, yet again.

Stay tuned

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Wild Cobra]

I just heard something else that struck me.

This is the first time in recent memory Democrats have not circled the wagons and supported a beleaguered fellow Democrat. From William “Cold Cash” Jefferson to Rangel to Harry Reid to Nancy Pelosi and on and on and on. Name a recent scandal in which Democrats have – within a day, as has happened here – called for the Democrat to resign.

Combine that with the Democrat’s rush to distance Obama from Blogojevich – his long association with the Governor all but being ignored – and Rahm Emmanuel’s sudden muteness; and, you have something fishy (no Pelosi reference intended) going on.

It’s obvious to most objective observers, Democrats want this to go away as quickly as possible and then, they want all digging into the matter to cease immediately. Thank you, please.
Sounds like to me that this must run so deep in the party that they are afraid!

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Obama is sure spending a lot of time crafting his "what contact did we have with Blagojevich" response....I understand he's delayed it, yet again.

hey. come on, now. "transparency" can't be rushed.

[Oh, Gee!!]

it's not a crime to talk about committing a crime.




could be conspiracy perhaps

[Yonivore]

could be conspiracy perhaps
Perhaps. But, why the rush?

I question the timing...particularly now that Obama is dancing like Mr. Bojangles

[balli]

Go ahead Yoni. Tell us all how you've never really liked Newt Gingrich that much and how much this is just a self-centered and short-sighted ploy on his part.


Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich sent a rather scathing letter to Mike Duncan on Tuesday, accusing the RNC chairman of engaging in "a destructive distraction" by attempting to tie Barack Obama to Rod Blagojevich. In particular, Gingrich hit the RNC for putting out a web ad that made it seem as if the President-elect was hiding a nefarious chapter of his personal history with the embattled Illinois Governor.

"The RNC should pull the ad down immediately," Gingrich writes.

I was saddened to learn that at a time of national trial, when a president-elect is preparing to take office in the midst of the worst financial crisis in over seventy years, that the Republican National Committee is engaged in the sort of negative, attack politics that the voters rejected in the 2006 and 2008 election cycles.
Yoni's not though. Cont.


The recent web advertisement, "Questions Remain," is a destructive distraction. Clearly, we should insist that all taped communications regarding the Senate seat should be made public. However, that should be a matter of public policy, not an excuse for political attack.
In a time when America is facing real challenges, Republicans should be working to help the incoming President succeed in meeting them, regardless of his Party.

From now until the inaugural, Republicans should be offering to help the President-elect prepare to take office.

Furthermore, once President Obama takes office, Republicans should be eager to work with him when he is right, and, when he is wrong, offer a better solution, instead of just opposing him.

This is the only way the Republican Party will become known as the "better solutions" party, not just an opposition party. And this is the only way Republicans will ever regain the trust of the voters to return to the majority.

This ad is a terrible signal to be sending about both the goals of the Republican Party in the midst of the nation's troubled economic times and about whether we have actually learned anything from the defeats of 2006 and 2008.
Yoni's learned nothing apparently.

[ChumpDumper]

Conspiracy to commit a crime is a crime.


Blagojevich, 51, and Harris, 46, both of Chicago, were each charged with conspiracy to commit mail and wire fraud and solicitation of bribery.

It's incredible how willfully ignorant some people are

[Anti.Hero]

Once a Russian, always a Russian.

Right chump

[ChumpDumper]

Title 18 United States Code, Section 1349. Attempt and conspiracy

Any person who attempts or conspires to commit any offense under this chapter shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the attempt or conspiracy.

Here are the crimes in this chapter to which Blagojevich and his CoS are alleged to conspire:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001341----000-.html

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001343----000-.html

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001346----000-.html

They are also charged with violating (a)(1)(B) and (a)(2) of this section of the code:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000666----000-.html

I would like to see our resident legal scholars Yoni and Wild Cobra explain to us all how there was no crime committed.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Perhaps. But, why the rush?


maybe to prevent an illegitimate senator from being seated.

[Yonivore]

maybe to prevent an illegitimate senator from being seated.
Nah, I don't buy it. They could have let Blago consummate the deal and then arrested his ass for a crime. The appointment could have still been stopped in the confirmation process by the Senate.

The idea that Fitzgerald was trying to keep someone from committing a crime by prematurely busting Blago sure sounds plausible to me.

[ChumpDumper]

Nah, I don't buy it. They could have let Blago consummate the deal and then arrested his ass for a crime. The appointment could have still been stopped in the confirmation process by the Senate.

The idea that Fitzgerald was trying to keep someone from committing a crime by prematurely busting Blago sure sounds plausible to me.Once more, with feeling:

Title 18 United States Code, Section 1349. Attempt and conspiracy

Any person who attempts or conspires to commit any offense under this chapter shall be subject to the same penalties as those prescribed for the offense, the commission of which was the object of the attempt or conspiracy.

The penalties for conspiracy are the same as the crime itself, so there is nothing to be gained by letting any deal go through. Yoni just lives in hope that Obama's people were as ignorant of the law as he is.

[Yonivore]

Claim: Rahm Emanuel on 21 Different Calls with Blago About Senate Seat, All Taped by the Feds (http://www.suntimes.com/news/sneed/1333057,CST-NWS-SNEED16.article)

And those are the ones they taped. Who knows if a couple were made on non-bugged phones.

No contacts? Really dude?

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

The thot plickens.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Nah, I don't buy it. They could have let Blago consummate the deal and then arrested his ass for a crime. The appointment could have still been stopped in the confirmation process by the Senate.

The idea that Fitzgerald was trying to keep someone from committing a crime by prematurely busting Blago sure sounds plausible to me.

if Obama conspired with Blago, Fitgerald didn't prevent the commission of a crime. the crime of conspiracy would have occured and Obama would be on the hook with Blago. I think you're hoping for the worst despite all indications that Obama did nothing illegal. Keep the faith.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

You know Yoni, there is a difference between criticising a president's fuck up, and actually hoping and waiting for it to happen. You're a partisan hack, plain and simple. You won't rest until you find SOMETHING that will finally stick.

[ChumpDumper]

Yoni just hates America.

Always has.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Yoni hates something... and whatever it is, he really ought to let it go.

[Yonivore]

You won't rest until you find SOMETHING that will finally stick.
You say that as if something will eventually stick. I believe that too.

Obama looks dirtier and dirtier with each passing day.

You won't find it unless you look for it and, frankly, the press spent this campaign season doing everything they could to avoid Obama's slimy Chicago political upbringing...while looking under every rock in Wasilla, AK for crap on Palin and came up with nothing.

Maybe they'll be forced to do their job now.

[Yonivore]

Yoni hates something... and whatever it is, he really ought to let it go.
Democrats. With the exception of Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman, there's not a good one left alive.

I'll let it go when they're no longer fucking up our country.

[ChumpDumper]

You say that as if something will eventually stick. I believe that too.

Obama looks dirtier and dirtier with each passing day.

You won't find it unless you look for it and, frankly, the press spent this campaign season doing everything they could to avoid Obama's slimy Chicago political upbringing...while looking under every rock in Wasilla, AK for crap on Palin and came up with nothing.

Maybe they'll be forced to do their job now.So after a week now, what specifically do you claim Obama did here?

[MaNuMaNiAc]

You say that as if something will eventually stick. I believe that too.

no, I say that as if you won't stop until something does, which is a bullshit attitude. You don't even give the benefit of the doubt, you look for shit to make a big deal out of in hopes that it will make Obama look bad. He's not Jesus, but he's not the fucking anti-christ either man...


Obama looks dirtier and dirtier with each passing day.

yeah, well you've been rambling against the man since he first started running, whether he be dirty or not, so excuse me if I think your credibility on the matter might be a little bit questionable.


You won't find it unless you look for it and, frankly, the press spent this campaign season doing everything they could to avoid Obama's slimy Chicago political upbringing...while looking under every rock in Wasilla, AK for crap on Palin and came up with nothing.

I saw the same campaign you did, and Obama was vetted like a motherfucker. Just because nobody found shit, doesn't mean they didn't look. Plus, Palin was an f'n joke. I still can't believe the Republican's trotted THAT out as the best possible candidate for the vice-presidency... jeez!


Maybe they'll be forced to do their job now.

What's that? dig for dirt eternally until they find something to vindicate people like you?

[balli]

until they find something to vindicate people like you?
IMO, the word "people" is being applied far too loosely here.

[Yonivore]

no, I say that as if you won't stop until something does, which is a bullshit attitude. You don't even give the benefit of the doubt, you look for shit to make a big deal out of in hopes that it will make Obama look bad. He's not Jesus, but he's not the fucking anti-christ either man...
I just think he's a dirty politician who will be outed. We'll see...try not to cry too much in the meantime. Because, I'm not laying off.


yeah, well you've been rambling against the man since he first started running, whether he be dirty or not, so excuse me if I think your credibility on the matter might be a little bit questionable.
It's the media, who have been completely in the tank for Obama, whose credibility is trashed.


I saw the same campaign you did, and Obama was vetted like a motherfucker. Just because nobody found shit, doesn't mean they didn't look. Plus, Palin was an f'n joke. I still can't believe the Republican's trotted THAT out as the best possible candidate for the vice-presidency... jeez!
Really? Obama was allowed, by the media, to explain away every controversy and not only that, when he did, his speeches were described as nothing less than a fucking sermon on the mount.

Hell, even the media has reluctantly agreed they were biased.

They came nowhere near fully exploring his relationship with Ayers and his involvement with Acorn, his relationship with Wright was dropped after he quit his church and threw him under the bus. In fact, everytime a crisis arose -- the media would drop it as soon as Obama threw someone under the fucking bus.


What's that? dig for dirt eternally until they find something to vindicate people like you?
It's what they do with Republican candidates...hell, they even make shit up and create controversy out of thin air.

[ChumpDumper]

I just think he's a dirty politician who will be outed. We'll see...try not to cry too much in the meantime. Because, I'm not laying off.So what crime are you accusing Obama of committing?

[Yonivore]

Case in point:

In the linked video, Joe Scarborough demands to know why the media doesn't know if Barack Obama ran Blago's 2002 campaign -- and notes that Blago was already under investigation for years, so the press should have had some interest in this.

And he wants to know why hundreds of reporters were sent to Wasilla to dig up dirt on Palin and none, apparently, were sent to Chicago.

Scarborough's questions are damning -- but Barnicle's and the NYT's John Harwood's answers are more damning yet (http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/checker.aspx?v=ydpr8zQukU).

How do we know Obama wasn't intimately involved in Blago's 2002 run?

"Instinct," says Barnicle. And that's sufficient, he feels.

It was instinct that told the MSM that Sarah Palin was a snake-handling subretard and thus required hundreds of reporters digging through the most picayune details of her life. It was also instinct that that told the MSM that Barack Obama was the Risen Christ and needed to be worshipped.

Instinct.

They make much of this virtue. It doesn't occur to them that their instincts almost all trend the same way -- to supporting liberalism and undermining conservatism.

[ChumpDumper]

And he wants to know why hundreds of reporters were sent to Wasilla to dig up dirt on Palin and none, apparently, were sent to Chicago.Are you seriously trying to say no national reporters are located in or have ever been sent to Chicago to cover Obama since he declared his intent to run for president?

:lmao

[Yonivore]

if Obama conspired with Blago, Fitgerald didn't prevent the commission of a crime. the crime of conspiracy would have occured and Obama would be on the hook with Blago. I think you're hoping for the worst despite all indications that Obama did nothing illegal. Keep the faith.
Not true. There has to be an overt act.

According to a New York Times news story, Blago's lawyer, who just coincidentally defends a lot of mobsters, says the case against his client is weak, because it's all "just words (http://althouse.blogspot.com/2008/12/if-you-read-these-transcripts-closely.html)."

Right there, it appears Blago's lawyer would disagree with you. But, let's read on.

In an New York Times analysis piece, the Times asks (in the headline) In Blagojevich Case, Is It a Crime, or Just Talk? (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/16/us/politics/16legal.html?_r=1&bl&ex=1229576400&en=9d5b8715e8bcd55a&ei=5087%0A)

Someone got their marching orders, eh?

Now, you obviously disagree with the proposition that Blago could be innocent if he didn't commit any overt act but, the New York Times is apparently duty-bound to seriously consider it. However, they seem over-eager to absolve Blago...almost as eager as you are to convict him:


In the case of Mr. Blagojevich, it would be legal for the governor to accept a campaign contribution from someone he appointed to the Senate seat. What would create legal problems for him is if he was tape-recorded specifically offering a seat in exchange for the contribution. What would make the case even easier to prosecute is if he was recorded offering the seat in exchange for a personal favor, like cash, a job or a job for a family member.

Indeed the government has claimed the wiretaps show that Mr. Blagojevich told his aides that he wanted to offer the seat in exchange for contributions and for personal favors, including jobs for himself and his wife.

But talk is not enough. Any case will ultimately turn on the strength of the tapes, and whether the governor made it clear to any of the candidates for the Senate seat that he would give it only in exchange for something of value.
First things first; Blago was arrested for conspiracy, where "just words" are the foundation of the charge. A conspiracy is an agreement between two or more parties that a crime will be committed. Now, the law itself contains a provision to ensure that mere words are not enough to convict. Otherwise football fans who agree that a particular ref should be strung up and beaten with sticks would potentially be prosecuted for conspiracy to commit murder, conspiracy to kidnap, and conspiracy to beat someone with sticks.

That provision is that a conspiracy requires an "overt act" in furtherance of the conspiracy, which need not need be illegal in and of itself. If one agrees to do a a burglary, buying rubber gloves and a crowbar are overt acts in furtherance of that conspiracy, even though there's no law against buying either.

The "overt act" provision keeps conspiracy from being a crime based solely on "just words," and also separates those who are just bullshitting ("We should rob Fort Knox, you know that?") and those who are seriously agreeing to commit a crime.

In Blago's case, it stops being "just words" and turns into chargeable conspiracy when he begins scheduling fundraisers with businessmen and supporters of Candidate Number Five. As well as other acts. But that seems to be the clearest overt act.

On to the next misstatement of law. The NYT claims, "Any case will ultimately turn on... whether the governor made it clear to any of the candidates for the Senate seat that he would give it only in exchange for something of value."

It seems to me this cannot possibly be the standard. If it's true that a charge can be made only if one makes it clear that government favor can be had only in exchange for something of value," then the law cannot ever be broken, because those wishing to exchange government favor for cash can simply avoid saying it so directly.

They can say "You have a very low chance of getting what you want, approaching 0%, if you do not pay me, and a very high chance, approaching 100%, if you do pay me," and they would be not eligible for prosecution, as the promised favor does not turn only on payment. After all, there are other factors, accounting for 1% of the decision-making loop; the payment itself "merely" elevates that chance from 1% to 99%.

If the NYT is right about this "only" business, then there basically is no law against government corruption, because you can always say there's a one in a million chance you'd get your favor without payment. In that case, it's not true that you'd "only" get the benefit in exchange for payment. You could win that one-in-a-million lottery if you don't pony up.

So the NYTimes works kinda-hard to make a hash of the law here. Coincidentally on the same day Blago's mob lawyer claims it's all "just words."

Analysis, sure. And fine distinctions have to be made in this murky area of the law, where logrolling and political favors in exchange for other favors are legal, but political favors in exchange for direct personal enrichment are not.

But please try to get the analysis right. And not merely take dictation from Blago's lawyer, who has a curious, and rather self-interested, concept of the law of conspiracy and solicitation of bribery.

Once again, the media is taking their talking points straight from the mouths of those they're supposed to be investigating.

[Yonivore]

The Chicago Way, part sixty eight (http://nalert.blogspot.com/2008/12/informant-told-feds-of-blagojevichs.html):


The ABC7 I-Team has learned that an attorney who went undercover for the FBI in the late 1980's says he told federal authorities years ago about wrongdoing by Blagojevich.

His name is Robert Cooley.

Cooley was a criminal defense lawyer in Chicago in the late 1980's who became one of the most potent witnesses against Chicago corruption, testifying for federal prosecutors in cases that resulted in dozens of convictions.

Cooley says that before Rod Blagojevich got into politics he was a bookmaker on the North Side who regularly paid the Chicago mob to operate.

...

He told ABC7 that Mr. Blagojevich regularly paid a so-called street tax to Robert "Bobby the Boxer" Abbinanti, a convicted outfit gambling collector. In the early 1980's, Abbinanti was working for convicted West Side mob boss Marco D'amico. Bookies pay street taxes to the crime syndicate in exchange for being allowed to operate such a racket.

"I predicted five years ago when he ran the first time that he was a hands on person who would be selling every position in the state of Illinois and that is exactly what happened," said Cooley.
So, here's another thing about Obama's political culture we didn't know.

On the other hand, we know that Sarah Palin once indulged an African priest who blessed her against witchcraft and that the Mat-Su Valley has a high incidence of methampthetamine use.

Oh yeah, Obama was asked a bit about the Blago case today. He responded "Don't waste your question (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tT9_ZIUSLhY)" and expressed his preference to not answer.

Which he's done before. He tells the press "I'd rather not talk about that" and they say "Okay, seems fair." Um, yeah. Hard-news men, never afraid to go where a hot story might take them.

Meanwhile, no one bothered to ask if he ran Blago's 2002 campaign, how close they were then, if he was aware Bagojevich might be involved in criminal activity then, why he supported him in '06 when suspicion of illegality abounded.

Oh, that's right, it's one of those things Mike Barnicle instructs us is unnecessary to ask about, because his "instinct" has already told him the answer.

[Yonivore]

Don't bother looking, the State of Illinois has removed the image from their website.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SUhkrXCAFvI/AAAAAAAAXfI/tlCn3aea0sI/s1600/obama%2Bblagojevich.JPG

[ChumpDumper]

So Yoni is now arguing that Blagojevich is innocent, but Obama is guilty.

Dude has lost it.

[Creepn]

I just think he's a dirty politician who will be outed. We'll see...try not to cry too much in the meantime. Because, I'm not laying off.


Seems like your the one doing all the crying during the meantime since you are waiting for something to stick on Obama.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Not true. There has to be an overt act.

According to a New York Times news story, Blago's lawyer, who just coincidentally defends a lot of mobsters, says the case against his client is weak, because it's all "just words (http://althouse.blogspot.com/2008/12/if-you-read-these-transcripts-closely.html)."

Right there, it appears Blago's lawyer would disagree with you. But, let's read on.




there's definitive proof--Blago's sleazy defense attorney said the case against his client is weak. OMG, Stop the presses!!! :lol:lol:lol

Keep the faith, Yoni. KTF.

[Oh, Gee!!]

try not to cry too much in the meantime. Because, I'm not laying off.

OMG--HE must be stopped before he discovers the TRUTH!!!!

Talk about delusions of grandeur. :rolleyes

[Yonivore]

there's definitive proof--Blago's sleazy defense attorney said the case against his client is weak. OMG, Stop the presses!!! :lol:lol:lol

Keep the faith, Yoni. KTF.
Is that where you stopped reading? Because, I was actually responding to your apparent assertion that Obama merely had to conspire with Blagojevich to be guilty of the crime.

I'm actually adding the element of the commission of an overt act in furtherance of that conspiracy. I was raising the burden...not lowering it.

You really should pay attention.

[Yonivore]

OMG--HE must be stopped before he discovers the TRUTH!!!!

Talk about delusions of grandeur. :rolleyes
By "not laying off," I mean I intend to post every incriminating piece I find. I have no delusions that my posting here will have any effect on the outcome of this scandal.

I'm enjoying the entertaining, vituperative responses from people, such as yourself, that would prefer to attack me instead of address the points made.

Have fun with that.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Because, I was actually responding to your apparent assertion that Obama merely had to conspire with Blagojevich to be guilty of the crime.

Yoni, merely conspiring is a crime just like merely attempting or merely committing. Putting a merely in front of an act doesn't diminish the act. I said if Obama conspired with Obama he'd be on the hook too. In essence, if Obama committed the criminal act of conspiracy he'd be in the same boat as Blago. I didn't qualify or quantify what acts would equal conspiracy. Try to keep up.


I'm actually adding the element of the commission of an overt act in furtherance of that conspiracy. I was raising the burden...not lowering it.

the proof is in the pudding, my friend.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I'm enjoying the entertaining, vituperative responses from people, such as yourself, that would prefer to attack me instead of address the points made.

It's been fun for me too. Good having you back.

[Yonivore]

Yoni, merely conspiring is a crime just like merely attempting or merely committing. Putting a merely in front of an act doesn't diminish the act. I said if Obama conspired with Obama he'd be on the hook too. In essence, if Obama committed the criminal act of conspiracy he'd be in the same boat as Blago. I didn't qualify or quantify what acts would equal conspiracy. Try to keep up.
But, you're wrong...ask one of the people who play lawyer in here. It's only a crime if an overt act is committed in the furtherance of a conspiracy.


the proof is in the pudding, my friend.
Whatever that means.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[RobinsontoDuncan]

Conservative posters on this board are making my head spin. A while ago, no abuse of power, no matter how overtly political, was a bad thing.

Today, even as the US Justice Department, which doesn't exactly have a track record of covering for Democrats when blood is in the water, is going out of its way to clear the Obama team of wrong doing and Yoni is going nuts.

Just goes to show you, conservatives don't have to believe anything just as long as their rhetoric makes sense at the time.

[Yonivore]

Conservative posters on this board are making my head spin. A while ago, no abuse of power, no matter how overtly political, was a bad thing.
Huh?


Today, even as the US Justice Department, which doesn't exactly have a track record of covering for Democrats when blood is in the water, is going out of its way to clear the Obama team of wrong doing and Yoni is going nuts.
Where have they gone out of their way to clear the Obama team?

The only thing I've seen is Fitzgerald qualifying the content of the criminal complaint against Blagojevich by saying there was nothing in it that implicated the Obama team.

Big difference.


Just goes to show you, conservatives don't have to believe anything just as long as their rhetoric makes sense at the time.
Meh, liberals are just as guilty of thinking the worst of conservatives. In fact, y'all have missed the mark in some rather spectacular ways; the latest of which is all the crap drug up over the Palin candidacy which came up empty.

[Oh, Gee!!]

But, you're wrong...ask one of the people who play lawyer in here. It's only a crime if an overt act is committed in the furtherance of a conspiracy.

Okay, I'm not disputing that. I'm saying if Obama committed the crime (or was alleged to have commited the crime) of conspiracy, he'd be in the same position as Blago. I don't know what Blago said or did, but he's in trouble. It appears that Obama is not in any trouble. Try to keep up, dude. I have not defined what it means to conspire.



Whatever that means.

It means murder will out.

[balli]

Meh, liberals are just as guilty of thinking the worst of conservatives. In fact, y'all have missed the mark in some rather spectacular ways; the latest of which is all the crap drug up over the Palin candidacy which came up empty.
Drug up? That stupid bitch went on national TV and made complete fucking idiot out of herself, multiple times. She was getting ripped for being incoherent and clueless. She wasn't being ripped because "the liberals" dug up lies about her. She proved HERSELF, to be an idiot. Palin and the Republicans have nobody else to blame.

I can't believe you Yoni. The Democrats whole game plan was to ignore her. I doubt Obama even said her name once on the campaign trail. Their whole strategy seemed to be that the Sarah Palin situation speaks for itself. God I fucking hate you Yoni.

[ChumpDumper]

Again, from the Fitzgerald press release of which Yoni is still completely ignorant:


In a recorded conversation on October 31, Blagojevich claimed he was approached by an associate of Senate Candidate 5 as follows: “We were approached ‘pay to play.’ That, you know, he’d raise 500 grand. An emissary came. Then the other guy would raise a million, if I made him (Senate Candidate 5) a Senator.”

Most reasonable people would conclude that's a pretty overt action in furtherance of the conspiracy.

[Yonivore]

Drug up? That stupid bitch went on national TV and made complete fucking idiot out of herself, multiple times. She was getting ripped for being incoherent and clueless. She wasn't being ripped because "the liberals" dug up lies about her. She proved HERSELF, to be an idiot. Palin and the Republicans have nobody else to blame.

I can't believe you Yoni. The Democrats whole game plan was to ignore her. I doubt Obama even said her name once on the campaign trail. Their whole strategy seemed to be that the Sarah Palin situation speaks for itself. God I fucking hate you Yoni.
The media ran with the rumor Trig wasn't her biological child and, the rumor persisted in some the ballijuana-like recesses of the Democrat world -- in fact, there are websites devoted to proving she wasn't Trig's mother.

Then there was the concerted effort, by Democrats with a complicit press, to make her the bad guy in the firing for that law enforcement officer -- who, tazed his own child and, by all accounts, was a pretty scummy guy.

That's just two instances.

Then, there was the selective editing of the Couric interview that deliberately made it look like Palin had less foreign policy experience than she actually had.

That you believe she was and idiot -- and are okay with Joe Biden -- says how successful the campaign was.

Hate is an awful strong emotion to have for some virtual person. You sound a little deranged...and, maybe you should seek professional help.

[ChumpDumper]

The media ran with the rumor Trig wasn't her biological childWhich media? I never saw anything outside of the nutblogs.


Then there was the concerted effort, by Democrats with a complicit press, to make her the bad guy in the firing for that law enforcement officer -- who, tazed his own child and, by all accounts, was a pretty scummy guy.Completely justified. At best, she was involved in a vindictive soap opera that is unbecoming of a state governor, much less a vp candidate.


Then, there was the selective editing of the Couric interview that deliberately made it look like Palin had less foreign policy experience than she actually had.

That you believe she was and idiot -- and are okay with Joe Biden -- says how successful the campaign was.She couldn't name one example of print media she reads.

Bitch couldn't even make up an answer.

Couric's questions were not difficult ones. Palin fucked up horribly. It's too bad for you she sucked, but that doesn't change the fact that she sucked.

[doobs]

As someone who leans to the right on most issues, I am naturally inclined to vote Republican in any election. But there's a great deal about the Republican Party that I dislike: its provincialism, its anti-choice hysteria, its pandering to the Christian right . . . you know, the Palin wing.

Having said that, I do think the media was unfair to Palin. Scratch that. The media was right to be hard on Palin because she was asking to be one (weak) heartbeat away from the presidency. But the media was downright negligent in its coverage of Obama and Biden. Obama is just as inexperienced as Palin. Biden is a reckless moron 90% of the time. But the media just refused to do its job with them because, frankly, the media was voting for them.

Anyway, back to the main subject of this thread. Obviously, Blagojevich is a complete jackass. He's not an anomaly of Illinois politics, however. Illinois politics is a stank cesspool of corruption and dishonesty. I doubt there's any evidence that Obama personally did anything wrong, so I think that's a losing argument to make. It looks like this whole thing will turn on the involvement of Rahm Emanuel.

This story is interesting to me, though, because it sheds further light on the environment in which Obama started his political rise. Forget all the empty platitudes about change and hope, this guy is just a damn dirty politician. I'm willing to acknowledge that he may end up being a very good president. I just think people should readjust their expectations and realize that, as a political figure, he's nothing special. He's evasive, he triangulates, he's had questionable associations throughout his career . . . like I said, he's a damn dirty politician. No more, no less.

[Yonivore]

As someone who leans to the right on most issues, I am naturally inclined to vote Republican in any election. But there's a great deal about the Republican Party that I dislike: its provincialism, its anti-choice hysteria, its pandering to the Christian right . . . you know, the Palin wing.

Having said that, I do think the media was unfair to Palin. Scratch that. The media was right to be hard on Palin because she was asking to be one (weak) heartbeat away from the presidency. But the media was downright negligent in its coverage of Obama and Biden. Obama is just as inexperienced as Palin. Biden is a reckless moron 90% of the time. But the media just refused to do its job with them because, frankly, the media was voting for them.

Anyway, back to the main subject of this thread. Obviously, Blagojevich is a complete jackass. He's not an anomaly of Illinois politics, however. Illinois politics is a stank cesspool of corruption and dishonesty. I doubt there's any evidence that Obama personally did anything wrong, so I think that's a losing argument to make. It looks like this whole thing will turn on the involvement of Rahm Emanuel.

This story is interesting to me, though, because it sheds further light on the environment in which Obama started his political rise. Forget all the empty platitudes about change and hope, this guy is just a damn dirty politician. I'm willing to acknowledge that he may end up being a very good president. I just think people should readjust their expectations and realize that, as a political figure, he's nothing special. He's evasive, he triangulates, he's had questionable associations throughout his career . . . like I said, he's a damn dirty politician. No more, no less.
I disagree...he could end up being much worse than "a damn dirty politician."

[ChumpDumper]

I disagree...he could end up being much worse than "a damn dirty politician."Of what are you accusing Obama?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Of what are you accusing Obama?

clearly not conspiracy

[ChumpDumper]

clearly not conspiracyRight. Yoni -- rather, whoever Yoni is pretending to be (this guy (http://minx.cc/?post=279780))-- said Blagojevich is innocent, so what could Obama have possibly done?

[clambake]

:worthy: thank you chumpdumper for providing us with the most thorough autopsy ever performed on the interwebs.

did you meet the family when they came in to identifly yoni?

[Yonivore]

clearly not conspiracy
Unless Rahm Emmanuel or Blagojevich committed an overt act in furtherance of some conspiracy they may have discussed in one of the over 21 taped phone conversations...

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[ChumpDumper]

I noticed you didn't mention Obama at all.

[Yonivore]

http://img.timeinc.net/time/photoessays/2008/obama_youth/obama_youth_04.jpg

[ChumpDumper]

Ok, that's a photo.

What are you accusing Obama of doing?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Yoni has officially lost his mind

[Yonivore]

Yoni has officially lost his mind
Official implies some documentation...care to share it?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Official implies some documentation...care to share it?

:lol

[Yonivore]

:lol
:lmao

[Yonivore]

Emanuel talked directly to gov: source (http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/blagojevich/1337789,CST-NWS-rahm18good.article)
DEEPER ROLE? | Pushed Jarrett for Senate seat

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Winehole23]

Wouldn't it be more surprising if Emanuel hadn't discussed the Senate appointment with Blagojevich after the election?

[Yonivore]

Wouldn't it be more surprising if Emanuel hadn't discussed the Senate appointment with Blagojevich after the election?
Yeah, which is why Obama's initial denial, and Emanuel's subsequent disappearance, were such suspicious acts.

[ChumpDumper]

What are you accusing Obama of doing?

[Winehole23]

What are you accusing Obama of doing?Yoni prefers to stir the pot. He won't ever say.

[Yonivore]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_L6pDyjqqsvY/SUfjxSZ7YtI/AAAAAAAAXew/P9I5DJ8m658/s1600/rahmbo%2Bmilk

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jcpoVP8qq-eXJi9T0imPYab5NRUQD956LK881


Gov. Rod Blagojevich is legendary in Illinois political circles for not picking up the phone or returning calls, even from important figures like the state's senior senator, Dick Durbin.

But there was always one call Blagojevich regularly took, say his aides, and that was from Rahm Emanuel — his congressman, his one-time campaign adviser and, more recently — and troubling for Emanuel — one of his contacts with President-elect Barack Obama's transition staff.

The friendly rapport Blagojevich and Emanuel shared over the years has suddenly become a troubling liability for Emanuel and the new president he will serve as chief of staff.

Emanuel and Obama have remained silent about what, if anything, Emanuel knew of the governor's alleged efforts to peddle Obama's vacant Senate seat to the highest bidder.

Emanuel did contact the governor's office about the appointment, and left Blagojevich with the impression that he was pushing Valerie Jarrett, a close Obama friend, so he wouldn't have to compete with her in the White House for Obama's attention, said a person close to Blagojevich. The person was not authorized to talk about the governor's discussions regarding the vacancy and requested anonymity.

It was not clear whether Blagojevich inferred Emanuel's motive for advocating Jarrett, or whether Emanuel discussed the appointment with Blagojevich directly or with John Harris, the governor's then-chief of staff who also is charged in the case, according to the source.

Emanuel's refusal to discuss the matter publicly, and the few comments offered by Obama to date, have prompted questions about Emanuel's ties to Blagojevich and what fallout he'll face as the criminal case unfolds, although sources have said he is not a target of prosecutors. Even so, any hint of scandal for Emanuel threatens to tarnish Obama's promise of new political leadership free of scandal and corruption.

Obama has said he will release a full accounting of his transition staff's interaction with Blagojevich and his aides over his Senate replacement once he receives the OK from prosecutors sometime this week. Until then, Obama has said it would be inappropriate for him or his aides to comment further.
I wonder when the press will ask Obama how he could be so oblivious about his Chief of Staff's involvement?

Yeah, yeah, I know, "This is not the Rahm Emanuel I knew." Seriously, how many more times can he pull that one off?

:lmao

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[mouse]

Yonivore if you insist on trying to salvage what little life you have left after finding out McCain will not be President by posting every time Obama doesn't come to a complete stop when driving, then at least keep a scoreboard.

Every time one of Obama's crew fucks up then check off a Republican under Bush that fucked ups. Like if you find out Obama's financial adviser was in the mens room with a wide stance then you scratch off Sen. Larry Craig from the list and so on....let's see how long it takes to break even.

[mouse]

at least be fair and keep it real. :tu

[Oh, Gee!!]

nice double-quote-yourself-double-post-action there, mousie. I'm sure it made a heartless bastard like yoni weep like a little girl.

[ChumpDumper]

Why is it such a mystery that Obama and company aren't talking about it?

Fitzgerald requested that they not talk about it.

[Yonivore]

Larry Craig isn't a Bush advisor. Rahm Emanuel is slated to be the White House Chief of Staff.

Strike one.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Larry Craig isn't a Bush advisor. Rahm Emanuel is slated to be the White House Chief of Staff.

Strike one.

The yoni we can expect to hear from for the next 8 yrs.:lol

[jack sommerset]

The yoni we can expect to hear from for the next 8 yrs.:lol


4.USA is finally getting to know Obama.

[Yonivore]

The yoni we can expect to hear from for the next 8 yrs.:lol
In response to the Democrats I expect to suffer over the next 4 years...

I wouldn't count on an Obama second term.

[Yonivore]

Willie Brown: Barack Obama didn’t like who the governor was about to appoint.

The San Francisco treat of politics, Willie Brown, talked to Democratic Gov. Rod Blagojevich this week and wrote about it:


I wouldn’t bet on him stepping aside anytime soon. If anything, his hand is getting stronger by the day.

I can’t go into details, but my impression is that the whole mess started because the governor had been considering appointing a political rival, Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, to the Senate so she wouldn’t be able to run against him when he went up for re-election in 2010.

Apparently, Obama’s people weren’t happy about the idea of Madigan coming to Washington, and there were some pretty heated conversations between Blagojevich and Obama chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, which I understand will burn your ears off.
There are 200 hours of tapes. I can see why Blagojevich is staying. He gets his hands on those 200 hours once he’s charged. And if I were President Obama, I’d be sweating over what Rahm Emanuel said.

If I were Emanuel, I’d hang on to my congressional seat a little while longer.

I'm beginning to wonder just how many of Obama's first string is going to make to the White House with him.

:corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[Oh, Gee!!]

I know this is a bit like McCain's campaign saying Palin was cleared in Troopergate before the actual hearing, but Obama is saying Rahm did nothing wrong. Obama has Rahm's back on this one.

Read the story here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/21/obama-report-on-blagojevi_n_152664.html

Edit: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn: :corn:

[ChumpDumper]

The real battle of Blagojevich

Willie Brown: Barack Obama didn’t like who the governor was about to appoint.

The San Francisco treat of politics, Willie Brown, talked to Democratic Gov. Rod Blagojevich this week and wrote about it:

I wouldn’t bet on him stepping aside anytime soon. If anything, his hand is getting stronger by the day.

I can’t go into details, but my impression is that the whole mess started because the governor had been considering appointing a political rival, Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan, to the Senate so she wouldn’t be able to run against him when he went up for re-election in 2010.

Apparently, Obama’s people weren’t happy about the idea of Madigan coming to Washington, and there were some pretty heated conversations between Blagojevich and Obama chief of staff Rahm Emanuel, which I understand will burn your ears off.

So there you have it. This is about hardball politics, not pay-to-play, although Blagojevich does that too. It is about Obama wanting to give the seat to Valerie Jarrett and Blagojevich trying to bury a rival in Washington.

Again, what are the charges? Talking about selling the seat? Getting people to raise campaign cash? The wife angry at anti-Blagojevich editorials saying the local newspaper should fire the editor? That’s a crime? Really? Cause hell, I have a little list of mine own of indictables if that is the standard.

There are 200 hours of tapes. I can see why Blagojevich is staying. He gets his hands on those 200 hours once he’s charged. And if I were President Obama, I’d be sweating over what Rahm Emanuel said.

If I were Emanuel, I’d hang on to my congressional seat a little while longer.

In typical Willie Brown fashion, the pols’ pol has the answer, writing: “Of course, if that doesn’t fly, Blagojevich could always call Caroline Kennedy and tell her, ‘If New York doesn’t work out, we got a seat for you right here’.”

http://blogs.dailymail.com/donsurber/2008/12/21/the-real-battle-of-blagojevich/

[Oh, Gee!!]

Kori should ban Yoni--this is getting ridiculous.

[ChumpDumper]

Surber should have him arrested for identity theft.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Rahm Emanuel should sue him for libel

[I am Tom]

Kori should ban Yoni--this is getting ridiculous.


Just wait until Obama takes office!:wow

[Wild Cobra]

Just wait until Obama takes office!:wow

Rush Limbaugh and other talk radio hosts can't wait to bank on the material he will surely give them!

[clambake]

Rush Limbaugh and other talk radio hosts can't wait to bank on the material he will surely give them!

it didn't help them the first time.